/lit/ - Literature

>ruthlessbabysitter
No thanks, pedo

>>16018172
it's a play off of a whitehouse song title, ya dip!

>>16018163
Who is Sotos and why should I care?
Get me excited OP and maybe I will help.

>>16018172
>ruthlessbabysitter
and the OP image too
I'm getting major pedo vibes.

>>16018207
He's a pedo and you shouldn't

>>16018163
How old are you?

>>16018163
>>16018216
>Peter Sotos (born April 17, 1960) is an American writer and musician. In his books, Sotos examines sadistic sexual criminals and sexually violent pornography, particularly involving children. His writings are interpreted by some as commenting on media hypocrisy around these issues. His books are often first person narratives, taking on the point of view of the sexual predator in order to explore sadistic and pedophilic sexual impulses.
From wikipedia

Fuck off OP you sick freak. I'm sorry I ever responded to you.

>>16018207
if you're not already familiar with the work i doubt i'll be able to get your interest, but i'll try! pete primarily writes about pornography and his relationship with it. he takes, as far as i can tell, a lot of influence from figures like genet and bataille. the books are unreasonably expensive and intentionally scarce.
>>16018214
it's from michael salerno's book, childhood. you people are so excitable.
>>16018223
early 20s, i started collecting his work in my mid teens.

>>16018240
Do you consider his work to be pedophilia?

>>16018246
personally, nah. having read a fair deal of it, it's pretty obvious that what best or benet, i forget who, had to say about him is correct. he's basically a geeky heterosexual conservative. the work is extremely sex negative, but i still find a lot of value in it regardless.

>>16018240
>it's from michael salerno's book
Just looked this bloke up and found myself on his website. Needless to say I feel very uncomfortable.
You say that Sotos' work is not pedophilic, well what about this Michael Salerno?
Can I ask what attracts you to these images? Or perhaps I should say, why do you find these images stimulating?

>>16018252
>nah
No? Why would people think so?

>>16018267
there's a difference between exploring themes of pedophilia and endorsing pedophilia. nobody accuses dworkins of being a pedophile despite the fact that her style of writing is unbelievably similar to sotos', who she had a great deal of influence on. sotos' work undeniably explores the topic of pedophilia, but it's always struck me as, well violently sex negative in general, but specifically anti child abuse. salerno is a primarily a visual artist and unfortunately i don't own any of his books, and last i checked he doesn't have any public interviews where the topic is discussed, so i guess i can't say. i certainly don't find his work "stimulating" in that sense, i think it's aesthetically interesting and aligns with how i remember childhood feeling like.

>>16018307
>it's always struck me as, well violently sex negative in general, but specifically anti child abuse
Any quotes supporting this view?

>>16018334
nope. he doesn't write in an easily quotable essay format. it's often times difficult to tell what writing is his own and what is sourced from other works anyways. i could go quote mining in interviews i guess. the best i can give you off the top of my head is the entirety of his postface in ian brady's book the gates of janus, where he essentially goes on a probably justifiable moral tirade about brady's work and the decision to publish it. you can find that on floating around online fairly easily.

>>16018307
>aligns with how i remember childhood feeling like
Were you raised in a satanic cult? The images I saw on his website are grotesque. They show children, usually semi nude and vulnerable with graphic distrortions of decay and neglect (stained and torn images).
If what you say about being in your early 20s is true, I think you are projecting your angst backwards in time onto your childhood. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that that is the pathology of child abusers. People who, for whatever reason, lose their ability to empathise with the true experience of childhood and conflate their current experience of the world with how children percieve it, thus justifying bringing that emotional bagage into the world of the child.

>>16018362
Why would you believe this if there are no quotable text supporting it? Is this postface the reason you think his work is not pedoplilic in nature?

>>16018373
because his work might be based in text, but they're not structured as books traditionally are, and the narratives therein are not presented in a straightforward manner. again, you would be hard pressed to find direct quotes in dworkins fiction that suggests she's not a pedophile, but by reading it you clearly understand she's not a pedophile.
>>16018371
i was raised in an extremely rural area. being a shirtless kid in the backdrop of rural decay was the norm for a great many people on this planet.

what age do you think i am? it's not that strange, i started out as a dork who listened to noise and power electronics as a teenager, and decided to look deeper into the artists i grew up listening to. not everything has to be so sinister. my throwaway is named after a whitehouse song for cryin out loud, i'm undeniably still an obnoxious fanboy.

i don't know what you could possibly mean by the "true experience of childhood". ever body experienced childhood differently, depending on time, location, income, who there parents were, and so many other factors. there is no one true experience, that's absurd.

it seems like what i have to say about myself doesn't matter because it seems as though you've made up your mind about my intent, but for the record, i couldn't possibly be further from a pedophile. my sexual tastes lean heavily towards the other direction. if anything i identify most with sotos' writing about fucking old slobs in public toilets.

>>16018463
These images are not representative of how kids perceive reality, no matter how poor and destitute their circumstances, unless they themselves were the victim of sexual abuse.

>>16018463
I'm gonna keep posting these images in the hope you wake up to your delusion about the experience of childhood, before you hurt somebody.

>>16018463
By the way, according to his website, these are all from his most recent set. I'm not cherry picking either. Go look at the website if you don't believe me.

>>16018463
Definitely no sinister connotation here. Just normal imagery of poverty in rural America.

>>16018463
Let's move to the next set on his website.

>those photos
demented

>>16018463
There are images in this set I am not comfortable downloading to my computer.

>>16018516
Thank you. OP has been living in his own head too long. This shit ain't normal. It ain't acceptable either, and for good reason. I would tell you to go to a shrink if I believed in that nonsense. You definitely need some form of help.

>>16018463
Hmmm where do I recognise this pose from?
Oh yeah it's a favourite of Jeffery Dhamer, and his admirer Tony Podesta.
What a coincidence.

>>16018463
Anyway I've posted enough and I think you get my point. Now I need to scrub my hard drive. Thanks mate.
Get help.

>>16018531
there are good photos in there. remind me to gummo. your vision of art is stupid. the photo of the op its beautiful. a child sleeping dont have to be pedo.

>>16018567
Fuck off pedo

>>16018567
there's definitely some korine at play here, yeah. especially the transition shots filmed on vhs.
>>16018531
i appreciate that you're at least coming from a place of empathy. i can assure you my intent isn't what you assume it is. i had only seen a handful of salerno's work online, and this recent stuff you've posted i'm unfamiliar with. honestly, it makes me feel a little uncomfortable as well, but i believe that to be the point. childhood isn't a safe, sanctimonious thing as much as we may culturally idealize it as such. in reality it's often times very messy and disquieting. i think this work excels in generating that sense of unease.art isn't always easy. i can definitely see why you may question salerno's intent, but his intent isn't what's important to me.

>>16018567
Of course images of children sleeping doesn't have to be pedophilic. But if you can't see a pattern in the image I posted you are deluding yourself. This artist is very clearly combining sexual imagery, as well as the imagery of abuse and neglect, with the imagery of children. You are obviously drawn to these themes, since apparently you also read books about child rape, and have the email address "ruthlessbabysitter"
I mean come on bro. Do you have any pattern recognition in your brain at all? The scary thing is that you seem to have found a way to justify this as normal. It's not, and it's the same pathology that actual child abusers have. I'm not accusing you of abusing children, but the fact that you can't acknowledge that these images are not representative of how children perceive the world is worrying. Child abusers are known to have a failure to empathise with children and you are displaying that pretty strongly.

>>16018598
see my response to this guy who I thought was you >>16018600
yadda yadda art isn't meant to be easy it's meant to challenge whatever bro that's not my point. My point is you are displaying a very bizarre pathology in the sum of your interests and most disturbingly, you don't seem to want to acknowledge that yourself.

>>16018598
Oh and one last thing. If you were yourself abused and that is why you are drawn to these images and themes, I'm sorry.
But please recognise that there is a reason that most child abusers were themselves abused, and stop indulging in the exploration of these ideas.

>>16018172
>>16018214
>>16018216
>>16018239
>>16018516
>>16018522
>>16018527
>>16018571
>NOOOOOOOO ART CAN'T BE SUBVERSIVE
No wonder you schizos shot up Ping Pong Pizza

>>16018621
im the guy who say that OP pic is beautiful. i think you are misguiding everything. the pic with a finger in the swimsuit have pedo atmosphere. i admit.
but i just found his work now and i feel it very good. and im not a pedo. but like the op said. i dont feel the childhood like a safe place. i think the artist portray the pain and unease and the strange beauty in it. i mean, if we end knowing the artist is a pedo its bad for my case. but i find his art enchanting and eerie in a good/bad way.

>>16018621
it's not that i have a problem acknowledging it, it's that there's nothing to acknowledge. my screen name comes from a song which is decidedly opposed to csa. this also is not "the sum of my interests". i made this throw away email using a whitehouse song title, a band sotos was a part of, and i used a picture made by an artist that sotos collaborated with. i chose these things because they’re on topic, not because i have some sort of obsession with them. this is not the sum of my interests. i hadn't even seen any of the images you posted. the books are not "about child rape" in the same way that fight club isn't "about fighting". the lion's share of sotos writing has to do with sex with prostitutes and sex with slobish men anyways. people hone in one the csa stuff because it's what's most uncomfortable. again, if i were to derive any sexual gratification from sotos’ writing to begin with, it’d be the stuff about sleazy gay sex. i hate to go full mask off, but i actually think child abuse is pretty cringe. i’ve seen the damage that it’s caused to close friends of mine. it's not a joke. again, i appreciate you're at least being empathetic, but you're also kind of missing the mark a little bit.

>>16018598
>my intent
To share and make copies like the OP says or is it something else?

>>16018689
i had assumed he was suggesting that there was some sexual motivator. but yes, i'd like for people, even the cringey dorks in the "grimdark spooky literature" threads to be able to access what i believe to be a top notch writer's work without having to spend hundreds on a single book.

>conservatives keep shitting up 4chan with their """traditional"" Judeo-Christian values
Go back to r/moralsupremacy if you can't comprehend the concept of an anarchic anonymous image board

>>16018706
i had some links to sotos online if anyone is interested... some guy put it in an ancient /lit/ thread an they are still there.
https://www.docdroid.net/cDxVCiW/peter-sotos-tick-pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/5Xk013O/peter-sotos-tool-pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/cpggjJh/peter-sotos-index-pdf

>>16018710
>anarchic anonymous image board
>GO CHRISTFAGS, YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING LE RULES!
>anarchic

>>16018768
thanks for sharing these again! you can also find special, lazy, and lordotics in the archives as well. my goal would be to make cleaner versions of these, as well as to share the rest of his work not currently circulating online. i kind of have this goofy need for neatness and completionism.

>>16018688
Fine. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word. Also I didn't realise that the image you chose was connected to the books you're talking about. Still it was obvious from just the OP image that whoever created that image has a fascination with children and sex and that was instantly confirmed what I went to his website.
My only concern is when people project these feelings backwards onto their own memories of childhood and (potentially) onto the experiences of other children. I genuinely think that is something that occurs in the mind of a child abuser and leads to child abuse. I'd have to read Sotos' books to see if that is the case for him (and to be honest I don't plan to) but I can tell you that is definitely the case for the photographer that he apparently has worked with.
Like I said, I'll take you at your word that this is not the case for you.

>>16018799
you are great.

>>16018820
if it makes you less unnerved, i'm almost positive salerno is a collage artist, not a photographer. i don't believe any of the photos are actually of his creation. i think it's certainly uncharitable to assume that his motivations must be sexual in nature, but i'd also say you'd have to be insane to assume that's an impossibility. you can make work that is sexual in form but not in function. von trier's antichrist is a good example of this. as a previous poster pointed out, i do see a lot of influence from the film gummo in his work as well, which is definitely not supposed to be an arousing film at all.

i think you're concerns about empathy in pedophiles may definitely have some validity to it. I'd have to think more about it. it does seem like often times a coping strategy of abuse victims is to normalize their abuse, which in turn makes them more likely to replicate that behavior.
>>16018837
i appreciate the kind words!