/lit/ - Literature

sorry marcus, i just dont know what you're asking. nice journals bro

>>15994492
how do i know hedonism or sexual promiscuity is inherently evil? the clown world tells me its good

>>15994535
Well first answer why it's considered good

>>15994690
if it feels good, it's good

>>15994535
>subjectivity wrong
People disagree. To say otherwise is to argue that everyone fundamentally agrees, which is just flat out wrong. The fact that the Quran says that everyone is ACTUALLY a Muslim and is just LARPing that they aren't because they "hate God" (whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean) is irrelevant.

The better question is, what's best for you, and the groups you are part of? It's quite obviously not hedonism.

There you go, that's why you shouldn't be a hedonist: it's not good for your, or the groups you're part of.

>>15994690
pretty much >>15994705 this, clownworld wants to destroy traditional morality and get people addicted to short term pleasures that slowly fade requiring you to spiral down the rabbit hole to feel the same

>>15994384
>how do i know hedonism is inherently bad?
Hedonism is counterproductive, as it values that which does not go on to further generate value or even destroys value. For example, spending all your time having sex does not make future sex any better, in fact it devalues and numbs you to it. However, abstaining from sex to work out and improve your physical fitness can improve your sexual health and subsequently make sex more enjoyable. Hedonism is to value sex (or anything that could stand in for it) to such a degree that you end up diminishing what value it has to begin with, therefor you can not be a proper hedonist without damaging that which you value. This means that from a subjective perspective, hedonism can be considered evil, as it teaches you to go against your own interests after accepting those interests as rational in the first place.

>>15994535
>inherently evil
doesnt exist

>clown world tells me its good
not really. its not as simple as more sex = more better. if you mean to say that premarital sex is considered "fine" by most meaning the same thing as promiscuity also being considered "fine", you're conflating two entirely separate ideas.

hedonism isn't inherently bad. in fact it can be good. if you value pleasure over all and also surround yourself with people who also value pleasure over all, your shared value pleasure allows you to properly empathize with those people and help them also acquire it. hedonism without empathy is more than just hedonism, its sociopathic. again, different thing.

you have to dissect individual actions and their affects for what they are.

inter-subjectivism and sociobiology

>>15994718
basedado

>>15994750
Having a binge weekend of sex and drugs is fine to recharge one's batteries so they can get back to their work.
The problem is that some people might lack discipline of have bad wiring or trauma and then become addicted to the hedonistic aspect which then becomes the main focus of their life instead of the work.
The point being is that you need to find balance in all things and being a crochety grumpy ascetic hermit who sees sex as a matter of procreation or some sort of contract with god and views everything else as sin is fundamentally a retard who is making up his own philosophy to cope with the idea he either does not like sex or is fundamentally a no fun ugly misanthrope who thinks life is miserable and everyone else who has fun is evil.

Life should be about work and fun, suffering and happiness, joy and sadness. If it becomes all of one thing then it is in imbalance.

Im pretty sure god doesnt give a flying fuck if you are gay or like drugs so long as you dont fuck your life up and dont fuck over other people.

I would say the key issue is that the modern world and technology are not fit for human psyche/spirituality. Thus people are constantly falling into a variety of traps and looking for something to blame or some sort of solution that might fit in with their religious dogma or power structure when in reality we are in uncharted territories and not even old school religion can fill the gap because things are so fucked up at the moment that no one can create a simple or elegant solution without using neuroscience or AI

I believe this is why Neitzhe proclaimed god is dead and we have killed him.

>>15995791
retard

>>15994384
but it isnt

>>15995812
naw, it was ok.

>>15994384
>>15994535
How do people like you even function?

>>15995893
the trick is to not have sex but furiously masturbate everyday
just like you consider porn to be disgusting, I consider casual sex to be disgusting

>>15995791
Hey man, you in the middle of a trip right now? You just wrote a whole bunch of shit that I think was supposed to be a response to what I posted but it looks like it got away from you pretty quickly.

>>15994384
Protagoras? How are you on this board without a working knowledge of the protagoras dialogue by plato

>>15996353
way to miss the point of that text - just like any plato dialogue, it presents an argument full of holes to make you think, it's not there to do the thinking for you

>>15996371
That nobody is able to respond to "If man is the measure of all things then is that measure itself justified by man?" (Paraphrase). You can't assert a universal of particular truths. It's an obvious contradiction.

>>15994384
It's maladaptive, what more do you fucking need? Do I also need to prove that diabetes is inherently bad for you to accept the dangers of sugary drinks?

Hedonism isn't bad, it's only bad taken to the extreme. Even if you have long term goals they probably have the purpose to simply make you feel better in the future.

hedonism = pursuit of happiness

you're free to suffer all you want though, cucks <3

Constant dopamine rushes numbs to its effects for one
It also makes you addicted
You should also never forget about the fate of Croesus, even if the narrative might not be entirely realistic, the meaning is
If you learn to live simply then not only will you be able to enjoy great pleasure when it comes a lot more but you will also be able to endure hardship and gain from it
In short, not being a hedonist allows you to be freer and happier more easily and consistently

>>15996404
Moderate hedonism is an oxymoron, retard

>>15996453
Read Epicurus, the father of Hedonism you retard

>>15996464
We both know that doesn't mesh with modern definitions of the word. Go back to 300 BC boomer

>>15994384
Normalization, at least what I call it anyways. We can only understand and think of things as comparisons. The notion of "gud" or "bad" is a false perception.

In other words, humans are incapable of being "happy" at all times. It is objectively impossible to do so as our minds and bodies will adapt to any effects or situations thrown upon us. So the "pursuit of happiness" is a pursuit of end of a rainbow, or "chasing the dragon". Accept suffering and look for it, then you may find happiness.

>>15996453
Epicureanism is a form of hedonism
>When we say ... that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality, as we are understood to do by some through ignorance, prejudice or wilful misrepresentation. By pleasure we mean the absence of pain in the body and of trouble in the soul. It is not by an unbroken succession of drinking bouts and of revelry, not by sexual lust, nor the enjoyment of fish and other delicacies of a luxurious table, which produce a pleasant life; it is sober reasoning, searching out the grounds of every choice and avoidance, and banishing those beliefs through which the greatest tumults take possession of the soul.

—Epicurus, "Letter to Menoeceus"[17]

>>15996774
Again, one at odds with the 21st century definition of the world. Do you also reference Diogenes everytime you hear the word cynical?

>>15996790
Then why did OP post a picture of Aurelius?

Of course constant drinking, unprotected sex etc. are bad but not even "inherently". They are just bad because such a lifestyle simply doesn't maximize well being, but that is obvious, it's not philosophy, the reason why you get bad hangovers from drinking, heart attacks from too much food and can OD on hard drugs is medical.

Many people still today think that there are things that are more important than actual, smart hedonism, for example all very religious people but also some atheists who think there are higher truths.

>>15994384
Plato's dialogues, the Holy Bible, the Republic, the Fascist Doctrine, On the Jews and their Lies

>>15996861
? You're not responding to me, you're responding to some imaginary arguments. That's fine and all but keep it in your head and don't (You) me bro

>>15996900
I literally did though. If you don't care about the classical definition of the word, why use the picture of a classical philosopher? On a board that talks about ancient Greek and Roman philosophy all the time? And then be surprised that someone uses the definition that the man in the OP image would have used?

>>15996963
Fair enough. Problem is that the argument about adding moderate making it an oxymoron still holds for Epicureanism. They were hardcore, literally retreated completely from politics and all sorts of other shit that could cause them suffering, sorta like the Buddhists because muh attachments. It wasn't something that was done part-time. Same holds true for most lifestyles with proper names

How can a lone puzzle piece know its function or what picture it is part of?

>>15994384
You don't, knock yourself out you drooling fucking piece of livestock

>>15994384
>>15994705
But it's not a higher pleasure, in that it never sates you in anyway. It's the equivalent to eating and eating, yet never feeling full, it's a state of endless longing, and if you eat and yet are never full, there is little point in eating, no matter how good the food may taste. The only way to be sated is through philosophy ultimately, this was Plato's position on the conflict between the hedonistic pleasure/thinking & philosophy matter anyway.

>>15997546
>>15996647

Similarly, as another anon said here Plato also spoke about the 'Relativity of Pleasure', in that whatever physical pleasure or good is introduced into your life, you will eternally return to a neutral state of pleasure which will never sate you. Again Plato reasserts philosophy and the pursuit of understanding to be the only way to go beyond the programming and to achieve higher pleasure which is unaffected by this gravitation towards stale neutrality.

>>15997546
This is just shitting on 85 IQ hedonism with 120 IQ hedonism. The truth is that existence is the highest good and pleasure can go fuck itself insofar as it doesn't serve that end

>>15997085
we know by the qualities of the puzzle piece

>>15997640
When you go into the enlightened observer mode where you become detached from pain and worry you also become detached from conventional pleasures. There's contentment of course but it comes purely from Being. So you're right there. So based on that I was going to agree with you completely. However, what that anon is talking about is a reminder that there's also Becoming, and it seems like a mistake to dismiss that entirely

>>15998917
Oh whoops ignore the part where I repeat myself because I forgot to erase the first sentence

you know hedonism is bad because of how it effects your mind in the long term

>>15994384
Read Schopenhauer. Every habit turns into a necessity and you are a never ending desiring machine that tortures itself and there is no escape unless you are willing to live like a Tibetan monk

>>15998933
You become philosophical.

Moral Subjectivity is not itself good or bad. It's a tool and you can use it to do things you perceive to be good or bad. It even liberates you from having to prove that your personal preferences are objectively true for you to be "allowed" to espouse them. Everything is permitted. Everything is subjective. Everything is equally invalid and equally valid. You can be as conservative as you want without having to base your morals on anything. You also have zero obligation to respect the equally subjective opinions of others, if nothing or no one forces you to. You can force your own morals onto others if you are able to. What gives you the right to do that? Nothing. Nothing gives you the right to do that, but nothing has to, because nothing can.

Me? I'd like to gas me some jews.

hedonism is pursuit of happiness through the worst way, by frying your brain with ecstasy which only holds for limited time
funnily enough if you want to live life of happiness for multiple decades hedonism is the last thing you should consider

>>15999954
Based

>>15997640
Obviously, although I think OP was referring to the base "hedonism" of modernity rather than trying to challenge that idea