/lit/ - Literature

>>15982205
If you recall from our previous discussion, I noted that Wagner and early Nietzsche seem to emphasize a road to salvation by hero-dom which seemed peculiar to me. I went back to review Schopenhauer's discussion of salvation and found that it does indeed originate from him. I don't have the precise formulation in mind, but to paraphrase, aside from the monastic path, Schopenhauer remarks that the hero too will reach redemption when at last, despite all his efforts, he fails to dominate the circumstance by his will, but rather the circumstances dominate him. In his martyrdom, the hero's eyes will be opened to the futility of the strivings of the will and thus he is redeemed. In this way, the hero and the saint are headed to the same goal but from different paths. Whereas the saint fights his will directly from inwards, Nature faces the hero's will from outwards. It is the same condition that Wagner is remarking on in that essay. The hero bears his suffering with pride, and so does the saint; the difference lies in the fact that the saint has already renounced the world and sacrificed himself for the sake of others.

His notes on marriage seemed to me very incomplete (bear in mind that he did not publish it himself), but it seemed to suggest that even animals are naturally monogamous; but it is only humans that misuse their faculty of intellect to form unnatural marriages that do not originate from the natural attraction between the sexes, but from political and financial gains; this misuse of marriage he seems to believe makes humans even worse than animals who by their nature could only act on natural attractions.

>>15986417
Vogner.

Chadner

>>15986417
Favorite Wagner scene?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX8aYU3-CRc

>>15987182
https://youtu.be/nRJApVjvxJE

>>15987243
SO SCHNEIDET SIEGFRIED'S SCHWERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chopin.

>>15987839
*faggoty, unnecessary chromatic scales heard in the distance*

>>15987243
Such a catchy segment. I someetimes find myself listening to it when I'm doing administrative work, slamming the keys in sync with the music.

>>15987861

>chromatic scales

so wagner then?

>>15987839
Interestingly both Chopin and Wagner were very influenced by Bellini's music with its long melodic lines.

>>15988104
If anyone is interested here is a transcription by Chopin for piano of the aria "Casta diva" from Bellini's opera Norma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4RARlzBHHA
Hearing it on piano it almost sounds like a Chopin piece.


Wagner (who wrote an essay entitled "Bellini" in 1837) loved Bellini's opera Norma. He even composed an extra aria to be inserted into Norma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9IfLE3OvMk

>>15986417
>>15987839
>>15987861
>>15987880
>>15988084
>>15988104
>>15988324
>>>/mu/

>>15988392
>implying even this normie level of music discussion ever occurs on /mu/

>>15987182
Scenes with Sachs at the beginning of the third act of Meistersinger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiSbrDNlPgA

>>15988471
true, /lit/ has more of an understanding of music than /mu/, with their 20 kpop general threads

>>15988324
insightful post anon. had no clue how much he stole, not to say its bad to do, from Bellini

>>15988531
Based wahn poster.

bump

>>15986417
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r-IAQcgxhA
BRRRRRRRR DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM

Fagner

>>15987182
boring answer but it has to be this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IjJXVY4j7U

My ethics teacher tells me Nietzsche split with Wagner because he was anti Semitic. Was it not over Wagner’s Christianity?

>>15989734
It was over many things, their relationship was complex. Your teacher is oversimplifying it. I actually suspect Nietzsche's adamant anti-antisemitism was for the most part just to spite Wagner.

>>15989761
I haven’t read Nietzsches “pro Semitic” writing yet, but so far in Geneology he’s saying things like “there’s no hatred like JEWISH hatred” and how Jesus is the priestly Jewish revenge against noble souls. I’ll be interested to see how he turns that around lol

>>15989803
Nietzche wasn't necessarily pro-semetic but he was far from anti-semetic. He still wrote about Jews as if there was something specially different about them than other people, which alone could be seen as anti-semetic. He respected the Jews tenacity and independence and willingness to maintain a distinguishable ethnic identity regardless of equalizing tendencies of modernity. He saw Jews a durable and smart. If they were able to take control that meant they had the right (might makes right etc)

"I have not met a German yet who is well disposed toward Jews…The Jews, however, are beyond any doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race now living in Europe."

Interestingly there is a vein of zionist thought called Nietzschean Zionism. Many Jewish, Zionist intellectuals were drawn to Nietzche. The only major one who rejected him was Hertzl, and that was because he thought Nietzche was physically and mentally infirm and that invalidated his ideas.

>>15986417
i disagree.

>>15987182
Wotan's farewell

>>15989957
https://youtu.be/gur0eJZW0Kw

>>15987182
Siegfried's Funeral March or Wotan's Farewell

>>15989734

>>15988551
Yes and Chopin of course drew inspiration from many sources. According to Chopin himself a lot of his music was based on the singing style of Giuditta Pasta and other bel canto singers of the time, rather than the composers who wrote the music.

Here's a clip where an etude by Chopin (which contains a deliberate homage to Bellini) is rearranged for voice to illustrate the vocal qualities of his music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz95YgAvWFk