/lit/ - Literature

>>15988840
An era of darkness tharoor
For negative aspects of colonization in india I would like some pro colonization recommendations

i think any book that argues for race mixing is directly adressing a pro-colonization perspective and could be useful to you

>>15988840
No one who knows much of anything about the issue is going to recommend anything to you, because it is clear that your mind is already made up and you are unwilling to countenance any opposing views. All I can say is that you should consider the possibility that building a few roads and dams does not make up for emptying a territory's cities of its population, forcibly transferring all landholdings to white settlers, and turning the remaining rural population into the servants of the former, as occurred in Algeria.

>>15988992
>All I can say is that you should consider the possibility that building a few roads and dams does not make up for emptying a territory's cities of its population, forcibly transferring all landholdings to white settlers, and turning the remaining rural population into the servants of the former, as occurred in Algeria
Seems your list is a bit short, allow me to expand on it for you
>roads
>dams
>electricity
>plumbing
>boats
>modern house building
>modern medicine
>more advanced agricultural techniques
>western ideas of democracy, republicanism, etc
>the idea of a writing system
>the idea of keeping track of their own history
>modern tools
I could go on, but the list is almost endless. In my view the technological slingshot of stone age societies into the modern era is one of the most amazing cultural exchanges to ever happen in history. I prefaced in the OP that I would like ones centered around the positive aspects of colonialism along with accounts of the negative ones as well. It seems you did bother to read my short post and decided to jump to snarky reply. Get the fuck out of my thread you retarded child

>>15989086
OP, you are delusional. I have no idea where you got any of these ideas from, but they can be separated into two categories.
1. Things almost all colonized peoples already had prior to any contact with Europe.
>roads (How do you think people engaged in trade, you fucking retard?)
>boats
>advanced agricultural techniques
>the idea of a writing system
>the idea of keeping track of their own history
2. Things that diffused throughout the world in this period, regardless of colonialism, and were more widespread in countries that were not colonized, e.g. Japan.
>modern house building
>modern medicine
>western ideas of democracy, republicanism, etc (This is not necessarily a good thing.)
>modern tools
>dams
>electricity
If you bother to look at statistical data on any colonized country, you'll find that the native population typically did not enjoy the benefits of boats, "modern house building," "modern medicine," or "modern tools," but were instead deeply impoverished, as in the case of the Indian peasantry and made captives of the European market. You will be hard-pressed to find a country that had anything approaching a positive experience with colonialism. The vast majority are poor to this very day, with the only exceptions I can think of being Taiwan and Korea, neither of which were colonized by your beloved white race.

>>15989192
1. Things almost all colonized peoples already had prior to any contact with Europe.
>roads (How do you think people engaged in trade, you fucking retard?)
Don’t liken the primitive roads they had to the ones that were made for and by the Europeans. Next will you claim that because they had stone spears that means they were on the same level as Europeans.

>boats
Sub Saharan peoples did not have boats.

>advanced agricultural techniques
They did not

>the idea of a writing system
Sub Saharan people did not

>the idea of keeping track of their own history
Sub Saharan peoples did not

2. Things that diffused throughout the world in this period, regardless of colonialism, and were more widespread in countries that were not colonized,
>e.g. Japan.
E.g a nation that was utterly destroyed by fire bombings (not mentioning the Meiji period because of the relative lack of embracement) and given a fuck ton of money and pressure to modernize.

>modern house building
>modern medicine
Look below the after next reply

>western ideas of democracy, republicanism, etc (This is not necessarily a good thing.)
These ideas of governing are incredibly important to intelligent discussion on how to actually run a modern nation. It also helps further concepts such as philosophy.

>modern tools
>dams
>electricity
Doubtful considering most of the nations had no idea the true value of the materials they traded. They would have been savagely taken advantage of without the need of Europeans to actually develop them.

If you bother to look at statistical data on any colonized country, you'll find that the native population typically did not enjoy the benefits of boats, "modern house building," "modern medicine," or "modern tools," but were instead deeply impoverished, as in the case of the Indian peasantry and made captives of the European marke.
The Indian peasants you’re crying about lived underneath a caste for 2000 years or lived in huts for 3000+ before Europeans ever arrived. Underneath the British India’s production for not only silk, but also metal went up drastically. Their literacy rate went up as well. And to discount the building projects the British engaged with in their African lands is subversive to say the least.

>You will be hard-pressed to find a country that had anything approaching a positive experience with colonialism.
Bold faced lie since the modern luxuries that they enjoy are from that colonialism.

> The vast majority are poor to this very day, with the only exceptions I can think of being Taiwan and Korea, neither of which were colonized by your beloved white race
Taiwan was actually center for Dutch trade so the natives had extensive cultural exchange with the Dutch and the Koreans were taken by the Japanese who did embrace western ideas to an extent before their destruction in WW2.

>>15988840
literally just made this chart with a heavy emphasis on rhodes

>>15988840
the only negative to colonization was the cost to maintain it.

>>15988840
Why Nations Fail would in some ways help clear up this question for you.

Suffice to say, Colonization was not some 1 shoe fits all experience over centuries and over continents.

And colonization IS NOT equivalent to contact or technology transfers between Euro's and Africans (or other continents)

There is a BIG ASS difference between Jesuit preachers coming into the Congo to convert kings and queens, set up schools, teach math, etc., and then THREE HUNDRED YEARS LATER European armies coming into these areas (majority of which had already been converted into Xians centuries earlier after centuries of contact with Euro's) and creating a massive commercial slave trade, and THEN ALSO using military force to conquer them and setting up exploitative governments.

I.E. many regions had already received the supposed "benefits" of contact with Euros way way before colonization, and even if there were other benefits to contact with Euros that really has nothing to do with the negative aspects of Colonization.

There are a seemingly infinite amount of examples of technology and innovations being shared across borders WITHOUT the need for conquest or exploitation. In fact, it actually works better without them.

>>15988840
Things fall apart by Chinua Achebe, a Nigerian author.

>>15989086

living standards in Mughal India were comparable to, or even higher than, those in Britain during the same time period.

no self-respecting historian would dare argue that colonialism in India was anything but catastrophic.

>>15989651
You have a horribly naive and myopic understanding of history.

Just going to attack one point here, about European's apparently introducing democracy to Sub-Saharan Africans which is empirically false.

There are examples of preexisting democracies in Sub-Saharan Africa being torn down by colonization, which prompted up autocratic regimes.

An example of this NOT happening was Botswana, where the existing precolonial form of governance (a constitutional monarchy, where a parliament with locally elective officials had control over the king and all control over taxes and creating laws) actually survived during and post-colonialism due to infighting among their colonizer (Britain).

Today, Botswana still retains the pre-colonial form of governance (a democracy very similar to England's) and was the country to recover the fastest from colonization and actually averaged annual GDP growth of 10% over the first 30 years of independence, a record which not even China has been able to surpass, presumably due to having this strong pre-colonial govt system in place that incentivized better governance than their other African neighbors' political systems which had been torn down and rebuilt arbitrarily

>>15989756
>living standards in Mughal India were comparable to, or even higher than, those in Britain during the same time period.
Considering that Mughal India spans 300 years and well into Britain’s industrial revolution that is a bold claim to say the least. Narrow it down to certain periods and yes the nobles did enjoy higher standards than the British nobles.

>no self-respecting historian would dare argue that colonialism in India was anything but catastrophic
I don’t care about your option as a “historian”.

>>15989823
>I don’t care about your option as a “historian”.

why did you make this thread then jackass

I'm loving this

The Fate of Africa by Meredith

>>15988840
he White Man's Burden


TAKE up the White Man's burden -
Send forth the best ye breed -
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness
On fluttered folk and wild -
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.
Take up the White Man's burden -
In patience to abide
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain,
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden -
The savage wars of peace -
Fill full the mouth of famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden -
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper -
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living,
And mark them with your dead !

Take up the White Man's burden -
And reap his old reward,
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard -
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah slowly !) towards the light:-
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
"Our loved Egyptian night ?"

Take up the White Man's burden -
Ye dare not stoop to less -
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloak your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent sullen peoples
Shall weigh your Gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden -
Have done with childish days -
The lightly proffered laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years,
Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgement of your peers

>>15989683
>chart
Beautiful. Can you post the template for this?

>>15990474
no template, just built it from scratch

>>15990489
How did you build it? I want to make some charts but they always end up in shitty resolution

>>15990497
I just made it in preview. create a giant black rectangle, then paste the book pic one by one

>>15988840
Lusotropicalism by Gilberto Freyre.

The reason why the Portuguese Empire was the first and last empire is because they aggressively miscegnated with their subjects and created a robust, Catholic, mulatto/hapa/mestico class of administrators.

Anglo colonization was particularly jewish and brutal and easy to dismiss as evil because they failed to follow Portuguese model.

>>15988840
Economics and World History Myths and Paradoxes
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=B260A0711A3C9B407CD18A485A52A7E2

Shows slavery/colonialization was a net burden on Western economies and harmed long run growth in those colonized... so not much positive either way which goes against the narrative that was somehow a necessary evil