/lit/ - Literature

>what is
An esoteric tradition.
>are there any practitioners
Yes, and due to the spread of information there are probably more practitioners today than at any time before. Of course that entails that there are also more posers than before.
>how do I better understand
Read the texts and meditate on the symbols and their significance.

Egypt > Plato > "middle Platonism" > Egypt and Chaldea > Hermeticism (as in the books we have specifically) > Neoplatonism through Iamblichus and possibly Ammonius Saccas.
Hermeticism shows that there was an unbroken tradition dated to before any dating of "Abraham" (third millennium BC), the oldest Hieroglyphs even predates some datings of "the flood". My point being the bible is not novel at all, the whole near east had monotheistic elements long before Judaism was a thing.

>>15983689
I don't think that before christ there was a claim that you will be judged as you judge.

>>15983734
Uhhmmm the Hammurabi Codex?

Hermes comes as the messenger of God basically in a similar manner that Christ came from God.
>>15983689
Freemasons go

>>15983797
>Freemasons
what's next you're gonna say the rosicrucians and that thelema hag are a legit continuation?
if it has a name it is not genuine

>>15983447
>What the hell is Hermeticism
An esoteric philosophy/religion/cult of uncertain age. The Corpus Hermeticum was written sometime between the death of Aristotle and the 2nd century CE, but for much of history it was seen as something dating to the time of Moses. Some argue that the Hermetic tradition is much older than the text itself, passing orally until somebody wrote it down.
>Are there any practitioners of Hermeticism today
Yes, there are a lot of Hermetic orders.
>How do I better understand it
The two primary texts are the Corpus and the Emerald tablet. Then there are commentaries on them, and I guess you could find a Hermetic order to join, but they are all revivalists rather than people with an ancient lineage to my knowledge.

>>15983864
Rosicrucians and Crowleyites are the same breed of poser and faggot as Masons. I despise the way they claim to be practicing unadulterated ancient mystery cults, when they practice a shitty reconstruction at best and a larp at worst. Ive seen Masons over on /x/ dick wagging about how special and enlightened they are and it pisses me off.

its a big mess. realpolitik was always present at every step of teh way of it's interpretation. christian hermeticism use it to prove their religion is more ancient and justified than others, probably same with zoroastrian hermeticism. there was a religious aspect to plato, maybe it was a take of hermeticism. people make all sort of shit up as they go along to prove their culture got the orginal source of ancient wisdom. not much intellectual honesty, lot of hypocrisy. like that italian dude who out of nowhere said the genealogy of it is moses then hermes then jesus... why not hermes first? lot of cope and fabulations, pure inventions.

apparently one take on it, dk if its the main but there is talk of a gnosis, union with "god" , some say to have magical powers others to be bigger than magic and be capable of what god is capable, creating souls n shit, not really on your own volition i guess since you are one with god= doing the will of god. wonder if any of that could be of use to establish ... not the creation of any souls but the recognition of souls in everything. i guess object oriented ontology takes care of it, wonder if hermeticism could be of any use for this... and the general ecological project, change of legal perspective before we go extinct.

>>15983447
Depending on how you wish to interpret things both Tradtionalists and New Agers could be viewed as descended from Hermeticism.

>>15983734
SOCRATES: Now wasn’t this the point in dispute between us, my friend? You considered Archelaus happy, a man who committed the gravest crimes without paying what was due, whereas I took the opposite view, that whoever avoids paying his due for his wrong doing, whether he’s Archelaus or any other man, is and deserves to be miserable beyond all other men, and that one who does what’s unjust is always more miserable than the one who suffers it, and the one who avoids paying what’s due always more miserable than the one who does pay it. Weren’t these the things I said?
POLUS: Yes.
SOCRATES: Hasn’t it been proved that what was said is true?
POLUS: Apparently.
SOCRATES: Fair enough. If these things are true then, Polus, what is the great use of oratory? For on the basis of what we’re agreed on now, what a man should guard himself against most of all is doing what’s unjust, knowing that he will have trouble enough if he does. Isn’t that so?
POLUS: Yes, that’s right.
SOCRATES: And if he or anyone else he cares about acts unjustly, he should voluntarily go to the place where he’ll pay his due as soon as possible; he should go to the judge as though he were going to a doctor, b anxious that the disease of injustice shouldn’t be protracted and cause his soul to fester incurably. What else can we say, Polus, if our previous agreements really stand? Aren’t these statements necessarily consistent with our earlier ones in only this way?
POLUS: Well yes, Socrates. What else are we to say?
SOCRATES: So, if oratory is used to defend injustice, Polus, one’s own or that of one’s relatives, companions, or children, or that of one’s country when it acts unjustly, it is of no use to us at all, unless one takes it to be c useful for the opposite purpose: that he should accuse himself first and foremost, and then too his family and any one else dear to him who happens to behave unjustly at anytime; and that he should not keep his wrong doing hidden but bring it out into the open, so that he may pay his due and get well; and compel himself and the others not to play the coward, but to grit his teeth and present himself with grace and courage as to a doctor for cauterization and surgery, pursuing what’s good and admirable without taking any account of the pain....He should be his own chief accuser, and the accuser of other members of his family, and use his oratory for the purpose of getting rid of the worst thing there is, injustice, as the unjust acts are being exposed.

Gorgias is all about unjust speech and deeds and ends with divine retribution, it wasa while since I read so I can't point out and exact literal case of what you mean, but it is easily an idea you can draw from the Dialogue. That to use oratory to feign virtue is one Plato's greatest vices (in Gorgias at least).

It's just a set of metaphysical theories that were persecuted by orthodox religious institutions, mainly because the theories imply an unstructured, anti-establishment, and asocial religiosity. Church orthodoxy of all civilised ages has been intolerant at its best and openly theocratic at its worst. The symbology of alchemy, myth, and initiation were philosophical ciphers that protected heterodox thinking from the religious establishment. Reflect on how the early christian church annihilated the texts of heretics, and how the fusion of politics with theology would make any theological heterogeneity a political challenge to church power. The esoteric, hermetic, secret nature of the teachings were only so obtuse and coded to protect believers.

In 2020 we have the internet, and freedom of religion. There is no reason for hidden cults, alchemical ciphers, and secret initiations over decades. In fact, there is nothing esoteric today about esotericism. That I can type this out to you from across the world is a demonstration of that fact. If you want to understand, you don't need to join any bullshit cult clinging to the symbols of initiation, you can simply read the philosophy and understand the metaphysical position they are coming from. There is really nothing profound or exciting about "hidden teachings", they're just different to religious orthodoxy, that's it. There is nothing in this legacy of philosophy that is original or in anyway undermines contemporary metaphysics.

>>15984036
But muh larp

>>15983447
just subscribe to a horoscope website
might as well be the same

>>15983689
>unbroken tradition dated to before any dating of Abraham
you mean egypt?
Hermeticism was founded on forgery. Not because of that it is worthless, but it is a mixture of heterogeneous traditions, this is clear taking in consideration the contradiction of hermetic texts.
The Bible is not a novel in what it represents but in its symbolique, it is with the NT that that egyptian symboloque is expressed with a similar if not greater force, since it is the symbolique Incarnated.

>>15984036
That's not really true. There was a lot of interest in Hermeticism and Neoplatonism during the renaissance that the church allowed to operate openly. Hermes was considered to be a great pre-Christian mystic and philosopher at the time, so he was grandfathered in.

>>15984036
You're forgetting that esotericism was not only used by established orthodoxy, but was the normal way that people interacted with faith from the moment the first human planted seeds in the earth and tilled it's soil, all the way until the enlightenment.

>>15984114
when I talk about Hermeticism I don't mean in the slightest smallest way the renaissance and "enlightenment" "hermetics". This isn't Hermeticism.
The Hermeticism from the 'Corpus Hermeticum' is identical to Neoplatonism written in the same vein of Iamblichus' De Mysteriis (wherein he even cites Hermeticism).
I couldn't care less about the "Golden Tablet" or Kybalion, I would give/throw the latter away if after I ever read it, which I probably won't.
If I ever take the leap of commitment as an exegete of Platonism and get a following online and one day find in the mail an invitation to any organization which I can google, that calls themselves inheritors of the tradition, I would post pictures of it then throw it away. At most, if I felt mischievous, I'd infiltrate them and spoil their ignorance.

All Egyptian scribes write under the name of Hermes/Thoth.

Hermeticism and the idea of like, alchemy being magical and shit didn’t come up until the Victorian era where people basically went “nah these people weren’t doing science, they were doing MAGIC”. It was mostly just natural philosophy. People really trying to turn lead into gold, not ‘transmute their soul into gold’ or whatever.

Basically it all stems from people in that era looking back at some old writings and saying “there’s gotta be more here” even though history shows there... really wasn’t. It’s basically a simulacrum, people into the occult making up shit that wasn’t part of the original thinking behind this stuff at all.

>>15984012
>>15983734
>that he should accuse himself first and foremost
if you miss it
Also, one thing not present in Christianity, except esoterically (where there's the various ideas of toll houses and temporary hell fire), is the redemptive aspect of judgement. Chrisitanity's eternal damnation is retarded, and I know all about Orthodoxy's idea that Gehenna and God's love and grace are one and the same light that burns the unbelievers because they hate God (what hurts is their shame and cognitive dissonance). But if this was the case, and if human nature is inherently God, eternal damnation should be impossible. Even for Satan, who is sai to chained in tartarus forever, how any being can remain evil after being showered by the infinite good of God's energies is absurdly illogical. Micah 7 even says that the Sea will cast away all our sins through forgiveness, that God's wrath (your perception of his love) can't last forever, then this should apply to all souls, even Satan---God's infinite mercy and grace and love should beat every soul's limited hatred, or are you saying our inherently good natures can produce infinite hatred? Either way, Universal Reconciliation is an Ecumenical heresy, it is canonically denied.

>>15984403
>esoterically
lmao, then it is present dum dum (even though it has nothing to do with the esoteric aspect of christianity).
Egyptian theology also had the exact representation of judgement before God, weighing the judged’s soul, damnation, etc.
>human nature is inherently God
what?
>God’s wrath is our perception of his love
What are you on about?

>showered with God’s energeia
When does this happen?

>>15984012
tldr. brevity is a sign of wisdom. you will be judged by mirror, that is technical fact, this is how human souls and bodies work.

>>15984476
what's present esoterically is the temporary punishment for SOME not everyone, as I said at the end. Esoterically as in it isn't doctrine. Toll houses aren't temporary hell but an in-between heaven and sheol, I'm talking about literal hell (gehenna) temporary. Regardless of this, there is eternal damnation, which is retarded no matter how evil X soul is, since we are finite god's infinite love should redeem he hatred of every soul.

>>15984476
>>showered with God’s energeia
>When does this happen?
deification is participation in God through his energies (grace), according to orthodoxy, it occurs to everyone in the Eschaton (everyone are resurrected and given eternal life in our nature, we aren't forced to be good thus our hatred is what makes this experience into hell).

>Are there any practitioners of Hermeticism today?

More than ever, even though they dont know it. Anyone that believes in horoscopes, tarot cards, magic crystals, and that kind of stuff can be said to be practicing some form of hermeticism.

>>15984036
Tsk tsk, the blindman has confused the historical conditions in which knowledge is passed down for the content of the esoteric beliefs themselves. We live in the Age of Information, not the Age of Truth. What of it that you can Google "What do the Freemasons believe?" and find a summary of metaphysics? Do you believe yourself to understand because you have seen it spelled out?

The esoteric is not hidden here on earth. If you overhear one adept whisper to another, you haven't discovered that which is hidden. "Eso" is inside: not a temple, but yourself.

>>15985239
>how any being can remain evil after being showered by the infinite good of god's energies
they dont? are saints evil? do you think evil people are saints?

>>15984036
esoteric orders have always been about practice, not the rote memorization of "metaphysical positions". this is why bugmen """"""scholars"""""" need to stay the fuck away from real knowledge

>>15986147
In theory yes, but in esoteric orders you will also find all kinds of bullshit.

>>15983689
>>15984274
There is some merit to Hermeticist claims, but not in my view any more than Platonism can claim it; except for possessing and preserving some fragments of hieratic rites from hieroglyphics, that are often placed alongside more Hellenized era writings. What is 'Hermetic' proper, cannot be anything other than exactly this - a development within a deeply Hellenized era of Egypt, it's very name attests it, even if it has some value in things preserved.

But I think in terms of pure preserved wisdom is exactly where Platonism exceeds, its tremendous framework of science and religion provides us a broader view of what effect the ancient Egyptian religion had. The developments in geometry and astronomy, and even cosmology it produced. It could perhaps be accused of sterilizing something divine to the Egyptian religion, but I'd also say this characteristic makes it universally translatable to any culture.