/lit/ - Literature

>>15973814
Just work harder or get a better job

>>15973814
Minimum wage jobs are for kids. You aren't supposed to make a living of flipping burgers.

>>15973814
should've majored in gender theory

>the forth coming eviction crisis

if no one can afford the rent because it's too high then i guess rent will have to come down, wow, amazing how free markets work

Burger flippers don't deserve a living wage

>>15973814
Illegal Mexicans work 50-80 hours a week at shit ass menial jobs and have kids and make it. It's not impossible

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be a living wage. Minimum wage jobs are for children who live at home with their parents. If you're an adult working minimum wage you're a failure at life.

>>15973855
Yeah, but they work off the books and pay no taxes, but get money back from the government in gibs for the kids

i can't wait to watch americans eat one another

>>15973814
How much of a fuckup do you have to be to still be working a minimum wage job after turning 18 lmao

Fucking bullshit at pic related btw

>>15973864
As if that hardly makes their situation any more desirable

>>15973814

>>15973814
it would have to be something that speaks to the shattered ethos of the american masses
th uber rich may be shitty, but most poor american citizens are just addicted to something-- often times just to television and the opprotunity to not work. american's laziness is matched by their self-centeredness, theur will always be a wage crisis because all americans do is want and they loathe working for it

>>15973814
Who actually works minimum wage jobs except for high schoolers? I got a $80k salaried consultant job my first year out of college. It’s not hard.

And the result
Really need to get this out to people

https://www.jamesherod.info/Getting_Free.pdf

>>15973890
>gets called out by a dozen people at a time for saying stupid shit
>just goes to the next thread to shill mindless crap
based spoiled baby ignoramus

>>15973902
>let's create a community neighborhood network, you guys!
>doesn't know any of her own neighbors; wouldn't even like them if she did

>Fake news headlines as usual

What do they mean by minimum wage and what do they mean by rent? Federal minimum wage? Renting a house? A two bedroom apartment? A room in a rooming house?

Just today there was a headline trending on Apple News "Mom shot in head at protest" as second most popular story, but if you read, a tear gas canister bounced up and hit her face after she sat down in the middle of the road to block traffic

>>15973814
looks like they can afford all the nice kitchen shit that I have to save up for, so I'm not crying for them

If you’re a full grown adult working a minimum wage job, that either means you’re not trying at all or you’re a total waste of a person. Either way, I have no sympathy whatsoever. You get what you deserve.

>>15973890
>a small cadre of "power elite" rule the world!

Take your thinly veiled anti-semitism back to pol, butterfly

>>15973851
I live in socialist state. You are dumb, this is not what will happen. Government will subsidize rents instead. If you think this will not happen because "hurr US free market!" then instead minimum wage will be pushed up forcing people out of jobs. Either that or people will just not move from parents, lowering mobility which is a MAJOR factor in determining economic growth, cementing their position in life.

Imagine having a job. Work is slavery.

>>15973814
I’m so sick of the liberal media doing this. It’s very easy to get a decent job in this country. Minimum wage is not supposed to be livable and never has been. Modern liberal millennials and zoomers are just colossal failures and can’t budget themselves because they consoom too much.

>>15973852
>Burger flippers don't deserve to live

>>15973911
>a tear gas canister bounced up and hit her face after she sat down in the middle of the road to block traffic
ah well good then, mildly inconveniencing some people for a few minutes should be punishable by death

>>15973941
It’s true.

>>15973936
This is not true. Millennials actually spend less money on "frivolous" things than earlier generations.

>>15973893
This, everyone should just stop being poor. Get a job that pays well, its not possible that if everyone makes big bucks that prices and salaries adjust.

>>15973941
Most burger flippers live at home with their parents because they’re literally in high school so it doesn’t matter. If you’re an adult flipping burgers, you deserve it. Natural selection at work. Let them die off.

>>15973814
any other aussie bros here losing hope?

>>15973945
>getting a cut on your eyebrow that countless boxers have endured for sport is death!

the absolute state of the left

>>15973948
thats a damn lie. previous generations didn't have funko pop figurines.

>>15973936
>Modern liberal millennials and zoomers
Ah yes, an entire generation of people, collectively and without explanation, are somehow all failures. That doesn't cast suspicion on the system at all. Get covid, boomer.

>>15973948
I’m consooooooooooooooming

>>15973966
ah
you didn't make it clear that she didn't die from it

>>15973948
What would you call frivolous?

>>15973964
You have so much land. Just build more. Or do your politicians care more about preserving the wealth of homeowners than everyone else?

>>15973814
Yes because you work a menial entry level job that requires no talent, skill, or effort whatsoever. If you want better pay, simply increase your productivity and rise up in the ranks or seek employment elsewhere.

>>15973814
Minimum wage is for kids in high school.
You don't need to pay rent with that. Just get a real job.

Anyone who works minimum wage jobs past the age of 20 is an abject failure and will never make it.

If you can’t make rent, just move back in with your parents. You were never going to succeed anyway.

The free market system is self-selecting out undesirables from society.

>>15973977
That's why i said the headlines was fake news, retard. Plebs like you don't read you just see a headline and have a tds meltdown

>>15973996
>The free market system is self-selecting out undesirables from society.
ok except they're not being removed from society so now they're just a burden

>>15973996
Even if you work a minimum wage job, you can live on your own, just rent a room in a bad neighborhood. No working in fast food is not going to entitle you to a luxury condo downtown, sorry.

>>15973967
>>15973974
>>15973980
I'd love to find the source but I think they defined it as anything that was not food, housing, or healthcare. So basically "consooming".

Here's something worth reading:
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says?t=1595867153392

>>15973870
I have a shitty job and many times I have been offered a managerial position, I have refused everytime. Pretty much every job that is higher pay than minimum wage or just shitty low wage and is not highly technical specialized trade will be basically a manager of some sort. Managers are assholes and I simply am not an asshole and can't treat others like shit.

>>15973987
>>15973996
Except many people work minimum wage who aren't "kids". What are you going to say if rents keep rising? Will you keep moving the goal-post? I'm no leftie, but this is pretty fucking retarded.

>>15973814
Any book on the French revolution

>all these smug classist assholes in this thread saying people deserve their station in society

Meanwhile in the real world the only reason you guys aren't master's degrees working at Wendy's is because capitalism hasn't made you obsolete yet, but it will soon.

>>15973814
Who cares, the continental United States should be come one gigantic desert of radioactive ash.

>>15974032
Then move out to a different country. This is america, not a place for losers

>>15974018
right, shouldve known when you cited NPR, but you ACTUALLY made me read it and the abstract to the study.
sure enough, it's just euphemisms a buzzwords. the abstract goes on about how millenials are more racially diverse; give me a fucking break. it unironically presumes a generation who grew up with N64s, Tivo and the internet is less "well-off" without even attempting to clarify what they mean by well-off
save this shit for the toilet, anon

>>15974057
Don't take it too seriously, remember that it's the middle of the workday on a Monday. All of these posts are from kids living with their parents or manchildren living off disability.

if my well-off parents weren't here to buy me a house when i eventually move out i would never be able to afford my own house before the age of 50. thank you mum and dad

>>15974077
lol im at work rn, making a salary posting on 4chan and reading books in my spare time. keep up that cope

>>15974024
>Managers are assholes and I simply am not an asshole and can't treat others like shit.
meaning:
>I'm not assertive enough to effectively manage a team

>>15974084
Shitposting is not "work" but keep larping

>>15974077
It is monday evening here.

>>15974096
call it what you want. it's all money to me

>>15974085
if by not assertive enough you mean bully and harass then yes.

>>15974076
The abstract also says
> Millennials are less
well off than members of earlier generations when they were young, with lower earnings, fewer assets, and
less wealth.
and
>Conditional on their age and other factors, millennials do not appear to have preferences
for consumption that differ significantly from those of earlier generations.
How is that buzzwords? The study is by the Federal Reserve Board. Now I'm not from the US, so I don't know, but it sounds like a reliable source to me. Remember that the people who bought those N64's were the parents, not the kids. It is very possible that they were better off in their youth because of their parents wealth. But now, not so much. And it's not because of different consumption patterns.

>>15974118
>management = bullying
confirmed for never ever having played sports

>>15974118
>coworkers are so lazy and slothful they require being "bullied" and "harassed" to do their fucking jobs

lol

>>15974077
There's also a fake pandemic that forced everyone to work from home so the geriatric ghoul the democrats nominated can have a chance

>>15974121
>How is that buzzwords?
define well-off-- and it can not be a reduction to numbers and dollars and completely ignore general technological and health advances-- millenials will outlive their parents by generations, is that not well off enough?
further what do we consider necesary food consumption and etc? do boomers get cred for eating meatloaf and canned corn for most of their lives while millenials opt for avocado toast and starbucks every day? this is an increidbly nuanced issue dealt with much bluntness
>sounds like a good source
right, because there are people whose jobs it is to make sure you find this convincing before you even read it. stay vigilant.

>>15974135
Remember to take your meds today

>>15974139
They define well-off in economic terms, the bit I cited, not health-wise. Also, millenials do not opt for avocado toast and starbucks every day, did you not read? Heck, I'd gladly trade those 2-3 years of extra life expectancy for the ease of economic gain the boomers had growing up, especially considering I don't have to change my economic habits AT ALL to achieve it.

>>15973910
>I wonder if he’s seen the suburbia thread.
>Even so, can he pit two and two together?

How hard is it to budget out $1000 - $2000 a month? If you can’t even do that, maybe you deserve homelessness

to the common sentiment in this thread that the minimum wage is not meant to be livable: that is quite literally what it means. it is the minimum income required to purchase the bundle of goods essential to survival at a certain level of development. one item in that bundle is 'shelter'. if the nominal minimum wage cannot purchase the earner shelter, than it is not an adequate minimum.

>>15973832
This.

>>15974166
>They define well-off in economic terms, the bit I cited, not health-wise
which is stupid: the investment into the general health and well-being of a populace is a financial one ultimately. ignoring it is deception.
>avocado toast
I thought we were getting to the point where I could be affable and colloquial; here's some legalism for you: defining certain realms of expenditure as necesary in any way begs the question, and must be deconstructed. wealth is a chimerical phenomenon.
also I don't give a fuck if you'd trade it, that's not at all what were talking about. if you have complaints about that just go to the fucking Congo, you're life expectancy will drop right quick, faggot.

>>15974165
I'm not in an at risk group, which is to say i'm not over 85 or morbidly obese, so I wouldn't want to take hydoxychloroquine that someone else could benefit from more

>>15973851

>>15973814
Then how can she afford all that crap?

>>15974183
Wasn’t that post being ironic?

>>15974171
bitch I KNOW my suburban neighbors, they're generally pretty traditional, slightly conservative folks. I'D start a network with them, I'm just surprised you want to advocate doing that yet find your community to be some inhuman matrix pod array

>>15973858
So 99.99% of people are failures and you just so happen to be here.

>>15974067
>>15973996

I can never tell if people with these views are trolling or retarded. If you live in a first world country, and masses of people begin to lose the ability to buy food and shelter, they aren't going to just peacefully die, they are going to take your stuff violently, it is impossible to starve to death in a country where scarcity has to be enforced, rather than fought.

I suppose roving bandits raiding super markets and houses is acceptable under free market capitalism, but I think systems that impose a safety net to stop this from happening works out better for most people.

>>15974206
You think 99.99 percent of people work minimum wage jobs? leftism is truly a cope for the mentally disabled. I guess if you hadn't been too much of a pussy to take that promotion to night manager at Waffle House you could have ascended to the .01% with that extra 3 bucks an hour!

>>15974172
someone working full-time for the federal minimum wage makes $1160 per month *before* tax.

>>15973814
I’m so tired of this shit. Like all the grocery store workers crying “Oh boo hoo my life is at risk from covid and I deserve extra hazard pay“

If you don’t like it work somewhere else you lazy entitled piece of shit.

>>15974191
I do not believe you are arguing in good faith, so I'm going to stop responding after this. I recommend you read the study, or at least the abstract.

As a final point, boomers did not pay substantially more for the infrastructure that now benefits millenials, and in fact it is predicted that millenials will end up paying more.

Again, I'm done.

>>15974227
why don't you buy your groceries somewhere else?
or grow your own food, for that matter?

>>15973847
Why not?

>>15974209
Do you even live in American? Have you heard of SNAP? WIC? Section 8? Where do you live that you haven't seen some fat fuck paying for a cart full of groceries with a SNAP card?

>>15974206
>>15974217
In the US in 2018 it was about 2-3 %

>>15974227
>working people are entitled
>not all the bougie upper class assholes that can work from home whining that their takeout food arrives 15 minutes slower than pre-COVID

Shut up faggot.

>>15974227
What if you can't find other employment?

>>15973963
>I hate Jews
>feed the Jews
The absolute state of neocon cryptomarxists.

>>15974217
>You think 99.99 percent of people work minimum wage jobs?

80% of the U.S makes less than 60k a year. The top 10% owns 82% of all wealth in the country.

>>15974255
>makes
>owns

Apples, oranges, and not minimum wage. Leftism is a cope for the mentally disabled.

>>15974231
>I do not believe you are arguing in good faith, so I'm going to stop responding after this.
hahaha, getting a little too real for you, huh?

also, regarding the investment of the boomers, I can absolutely %100 guarantee that boomers have invested more into the infrastructure because the only infrastructure I am appealing to is the general tide of progress in the west. sorry about your cognitive dissonance though, seems like a pretty bad case desu

>>15974255
I'm pretty sure this is just an unavoidable fact of nature.

>>15974227
Workers banding together to demand higher pay is a fundamental part of the supply and demand process figuring out what wages are acceptable. When people say the free market decides what the costs and prices of things should be, (including people's time), how do you think that happens? An algorithm decides what peoples wages should be because too many people left? No, it's decided by workers and employers pushing and shoving, and always has been.

Right libertarians seem to hate unions, but if it wasn't for all the union busting, wages would be decided a lot more organically through employees and employers without the need for government.

>>15974171
>>15974203
>she runs, yet again
lol fucking worm

>>15974262
Mhm, just like feudal aristocracy was.

>>15974272
>complains about union busting
>supports blm's demands to destroy the police union
>support unlimited and undocumented immigration

Can't be woke and a labor organizer at the same time, and you've chosen woke, enjoy the low wage non-unionized jobsite

>>15973969
They are the generation that spent their lives in the internet. At least zoomers are not so dumb and will learn from their mistakes

>>15974242
No, I don't live in America. I'm guessing you're talking about welfare, and I'm talking about people saying welfare shouldn't exist, and a free market system would force these people who can't afford to exist to just die. But they wouldn't just die, they would riot and create a total nightmare for everyone who can afford to feed and shelter themselves.

Things like welfare, or a UBI system done properly ensures this doesn't happen by making sure everyone is able to live, stopping the need for violence.

>>15974297
>>complains about union busting
>>supports blm's demands to destroy the police union
>>support unlimited and undocumented immigration
the most blatant strawman i have ever seen, really low effort.

>>15974259
Imagine having such a brainrot that you're actually defending people like Jeff Bezos and George Soros just to "own the lefties".

>>15974262
Lol well it wasn't at many points in time so clearly it isn't. This is the most economically unequal time in history, more so than the gilded age, more so than the age of medieval kings.

>>15974309
imagine being so dickless your political opinions are just rationalizations fo your jealousy

>>15974297
What on earth are you taking about? You're making up arguments against invisible people. Take your meds.

>>15974316
Could I have a source for that claim? I'm not being antagonistic, I'm genuinely curious.

>>15974289
No, I'm talking about wealth distribution. Perhaps economies sort themselves into Pareto distributions over time, just by their very nature.

>>15974276
I ran out for some caffeine yo.
I am generally pessimistic about capitalist suburbs. Why so butthurt?
Glad you know some people and are super social. Seriously. Do read the book. Do organize direct democracy as the alternative to this failing nation-state and it’s sick economy.
Know anybody that designs apps?

>>15974318
>The only reason I can disagree with someone, or find what they do unethical is because I'm jealous.

You have to be over 18 to post here

>>15974318
5 cent arguments /pol/goloid. There having been right-wingers with 3 standard deviations higher IQ than you that have had anti-capitalist opinions, and it isn't because they are jealous of capitalists, but keep thinking that you fucking brainlet.

>>15974239
They are fit for kids which still live at home. You get paid so little because the work you do is so retarded that even kids without any qualifications can do them. If you are too retarded to qualify for a better job you should be shot instead of taking away job opportunitie for the next generation, kvetching about wanting to make a living off that shit.

>>15974123
I dislike team sports especially any type of nigger ball, I have been training mma for many years though.

>>15974130
have you ever actually been employed? Had a real job? My coworkers and I, we have a contract, it states a job role and responsibilities, it is also states contracted hours that we are required to work. When managers try to bend the rules and exploit people, squeeze every last drop, that is nothing like telling someone lazy to do some work, it is not justifiable, and they know that most people in the company will sooner leave than go through the hassle of taking legal action. There are several older employees who have dedicated their lives to the company and many have lost hope and consider quitting but one or two might actually take a more drastic route. I wish them luck, it is too bad I am still young and snuffing a couple of managerial cunts will only bring short term satisfaction and long years in prison.

>>15974329
>Perhaps economies sort themselves into Pareto distributions over time, just by their very nature.

Also known as a very good rationalization for not trying to do anything about it.

This is the smart economist's version of "niggers are poor because they are dumb".

>>15974330
Not the guy you're responding to, but can you give me short of the book, if you please. How does the author propose we organize an economy without money?

>>15974352
No, I never said we shouldn't do anything about it. I'm just postulating that it isn't distributed that way by intentional ill intent or corruption, as it is often said. Why is it important how it came to be? Well it affects how we respond to it. If the system being corrupt is what causes wealth disparity then the system needs to be reworked, but if it's not because of that, but rather a natural fact, another solution is needed. I think we both agree that it's a problem, however.

>>15974328
>can't respond so does an ad hominem

low iq

>>15973814
Kapital, contradictions such as "the tendency of the rate of profit to fall" are undeniable and thus show how the capitalist model is in NO way sustainable.

>>15974330
>book written immedietly after the 2008 financial crisis predicts the collapse of capitalism
>ten years later the believes are still waiting like christians waiting for christ to come back

you might be waiting a long time, in the mean time you don't you go to school and get a real job, oh right, because you're not smart

>>15974385
Respond to what? I make a post about unions and instead of refuting anything about union busting, you randomly bring up BLM and immigration, assuming I support them, like it's even relevant.

>>15974394
The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is precisely why capitalism is sustainable because it's always getting more efficient and optimized

>>15974380
>intentional ill intent or corruption

Which I never claimed it was. Anyone who claims that is a milquetoast liberal who thinks capitalists are evil when they throw chemicals into a river instead of just perfectly rational.

>>15974330
>I am generally pessimistic about capitalist suburbs. Why so butthurt?
Because your reccing books about forming cohesive communtys out of these suburbs, brainless cunt.

>>15974410
The main pillar of blm is busting unions, do you support organized labor or not?

>>15974335
>>15974338
lol what a seethe

>>15974330
You can't convince me these kooky utopian books aren't just "rich dad poor dad" for the left

>>15974353
Herod doesn’t bring up the economy. That’s what he’s reading up on now. If we were to assemble now, many of us would still have the old jobs and be required to pay the same taxes on our dollars earned, but that’s why I asked about an app designer.
Life Without Money and Cockshott’s Towards a New Socialism both offer wonderful alternatives.
LWM offers many ideas including a gift economy, while TaNS presents in detail a non accumulative currency. A labor voucher that can be calculated on a regular computer server and hook up to smartphones your own personal earnings.

>>15974439
Utopianism is the opiate of the bourgeoisie.

>>15974330
>organize with those home owners to disestablish the system of finance that allows them to feed/shelter their children

you are such an impressive moron; god damn

>>15974135
Trump had the opportunity to take advantage of this infinitely more than the democrats have.

>perfect opportunity to close borders
>perfect opportunity to suspend all immigration
>perfect opportunity to suspend or postpone the elections

If he loses, it's because he was too weak to do what was needed. All you are doing is bitching and moaning about dems taking a relatively minor advantage of the same situation. If you have power and do not secure it with an iron fist, you're a retard. I voted for Trump in 2016. I am not voting this election. The only rational opinion to have about the election in the midst of a pandemic is for it to be canceled entirely.

>>15974422
You thought she actually reads books? If she could read she wouldn't work at walmart in the lowest responsibility role next to coworkers with downs syndrome

>>15974427
Yeah, I support unions, are you going to tell me what's bad about unions under a right libertarian ideology now?

>>15974402
For real. Capitalism can take its herds to slaughter all the way to 2100 with all its sticks and carrots.

>>15974439
No, that’s your job, bitchtits

>>15974455
But unions protect bad cops, you don't like bad cops do you? are you racist or something?

>>15974445
Doesn't a gift economy require relatively small societies? Humans historically migrated from gift economies to lending economies when societies became too big to trust everyone.

What is meant by a "non-accumulative currency"? Is it just boolean, i.e. I either have one unit or I do not, and one unit is the maximum I can ever have?

>>15974227
I love posts like this because they turn people to reading Marx and others because of their lack of knowing how the world works and lack of empathy. Keep posting anon you're doing God's work.

>>15974411
Perhaps one of the lowest IQ takes I have seen on this website. I highly suggest you actually read Marx's argument and Capital for the matter you actually know what it is you are talking about. If you haven't already the Wealth of Nations it required before trying to read Capital since it pretty much continues directly from Smith. I'm not wasting my time on you educate yourself.

>>15974445
Very based Cockshott doesn't get anywhere near enough attention.

>>15974454
I'm not whoever you're responding to, but plenty of people are well read or generally intelligent but have shitty jobs, just due to lack of marketable skills or trade training. I work in sales for a pharmaceuticals company, and I eat my lunch with a guy from the factory who's really well read, he's read a ton of philosophy and is really into Ancient Greece. Most of the people in my department are really good at their job and matters related to accounts, but read basically nothing and spend their nights watching reality TV.

>>15974474
>Doesn't a gift economy require relatively small societies?

Also, gift economies work because the chieftan extracts all the value out of the economy and then "gifts" it back to his subjects, it's not egalitarian at all. people who don't read thing it's like we all just give each other gifts, no the gift economy is where the big boss has so much surplus he gives people shit in order to have them indebted to him, its actually quite sinister if you think about it

>>15973847
2008 was obviously a big turning point where most conservatives turned around from the Bush years where the plan was to extend private home ownership to the max so most families would have an interest in the status quo to embracing the idea that most people shouldn't own homes.

>>15973851
Deflation isn't a likely outcome since most people that matter have no interest in seeing housing prices decline.

>>15973814
>ITT: amerimutts proud that their country is becoming a 3rd world shithole

Amazing

>>15974488
>if you disagree with marx you just haven't read him!

every time

>>15974474
>Humans historically migrated from gift economies to lending economies when societies became too big to trust everyone.

No, they didn't. Read Debt: The First 5000 years, lending and borrowing was likely the first economic system of civilization, before moving on to generally accepted currency, or what we would classify today as money.

>>15974454
The degree to which you lack any notion of the real world is kind of sad and sheltered

>>15974505
>Deflation isn't a likely outcome since most people that matter have no interest in seeing housing prices decline.

If their rentals are vacant they do

>>15974472
a labor union is different from a police union because the former helps close the power gap between the employer and the employee, while the latter only broadens the gap (in the sense that the police officer is the EMPLOYEE and the law abiding tax payer is the EMPLOYER, yet in this relationship the power dynamic is reversed)

im just looking out for my personal interest, that's all. a cop's salary is MY money, they shouldn't get the right to shoot me dead then cover it up with their mafia connections. if anything, i should be able to fire a cop if i don't like their performance. now THAT would be real capitalism.

>>15974509
The U.S has always been a 3rd world shithole to everyone but the top 30%.

>>15973996
>The free market system is self-selecting out undesirables from society.
>The free market

>>15974533
I doubt 30% of the US population lives well at this point in time. The % will be thinner and thinner if the 2-party system doesn't change.

>>15974532
But that applies to all public sector unions then. Are you apposed to the postal workers union? Or the teachers union? All they have to do is convince you the teachers union is racist, and you'll be out smashing a startbucks window in the name of a free labor market lmao what a muppet

>>15974555
>2-party system
is it even 2-party at this point? democrats and republicans will give you the same thing, republicans will just do it slower over time

Isn't it strange that not a single american has so far went on a killing spree on wall street?

>>15974528
Most retards don't actually really own and banks aren't really interested directly being landlords. Now you've got less supply.

>>15974555
Well the top 10% owns around 80% of the wealth, which means that the remaining 90% of the population are engaged in a Social Darwinistic Mad Max fight to even get food on the table.

>>15974525
some old hippy bitch that has to use 4chan as her instagram is going to tell us about the real world, ok

>>15974517
We're saying the same thing, read my post again. I'm saying we moved from a gifting economy TO a lending economy, which then evolved into currency.

>>15973948
>>15973969
Based

>>15974559
You are a complete ideologue assuming everyone who disagrees with you is a caricature of some made up enemy you have created for yourself by watching Sargon of Akkad and watching leftist cringe compilations.

>>15974179
took like 30 posts for someone to say it. free market is new secular religion for American muttoids.

>>15974576
If you think rents can only go up, why aren't you buying rental properties? probably because you don't really believe this, but say it anyway because it's your cope

>>15974602
Probably because they can't afford the deposit? Are you stupid?

This is a total non issue
I don’t know anyone who works a minimum wage job whatsoever

>>15974559
>All they have to do is convince you the teachers union is racist, and you'll be out smashing a startbucks window in the name of a free labor market lmao what a muppet
jesus i can smell the seething

>>15974588
>some old hippy bitch
Sounds like incel cope. You fucking schizos are on one today, building little bubbles inventing characters projecting shit. Pull your thumb out of your ass for one second and stop larping you pathetic little man child

>"What do you mean millennials prefer socialism to capitalism?! That's outrageous!"

>>15974594
Do you support public sector unions or not?

>>15974602
>If you think rents can only go up, why aren't you buying rental properties?
i don't have the money to buy a rental property, and if i was given one i would live in it rather than rent it out

>>15974179
that wrong, minimum wage is nothing more than the minimum you are allowed to legally pay someone. The living standard is a colloquial farce implied, but bears no actual legal relation

>>15973870
I was minimum wage at 16, and almost double that by 18 because I hopped jobs and gathered skills. Anyone that is stuck at a minimum wage job is literally retarded. Even the baggers in my city make way more the minimum wage because they at least unionized.

CAPITALISM WORKS GUYS

>>15974614
Personally I think the teacher's union is shit, so I'm looking forward to the woke mob turning on them next after the police union is smashed

>>15974602
Because I don't have the cash, if I was going to do that I'd need to borrow and when I don't pay back because I didn't get the rent payments once I'd be in a worse position. Long run deflation won't occur but prices can temporarily go down a little or not get paid.

>>15974631
Yeah

>>15974629
>older people have more wealth

gee it's almost like if you invest your money instead of consooming you eventually end up pretty well heeled in a first world capitalist economy

>>15974649
can you get the numbers for people sent to Soviet/Chinese work camps? Or the technological advents given to general society by communism?

>>15974638
why, in the land of the ~*free*~, am I not allowed to live somewhere working the bare minimum? what if I don't feel like producing for a funko pop economy, and I'm willing to make the sacrifices I have to make? tell me why that's bad.

>>15974649
>Nasdaq currently at all time high

Yeah, there were some great buying opportunities this year, did you add anything good to your portfolio?

>>15974664
Well millennials are nearing middle age and they still have less wealth than Gen X.

Also:

>implying the generation that is responsible for the Sexual Revolution haven't just "consoomed" constantly their entire life

>>15974669
why does anything the system does have to revolve around your wishes and what your precobnceived notion of what free is?
why do you think a good system is one that gives you everything you want? you're so selfish man. do you emply people? do you have any understanding of the demands that creates or are you really just so upset yoy dont get to live in downtown NYC for free that you cant empathize?

>>15974669
But you can, that headline is fake news for plebs

>>15973832
>"Yes goyim, keep working for Mr Shekelstein and remember to be grateful for your piddly ass minimum wage."

>>15973814
This would mean, every place is unoccupied or that there are more people than places; it should be the latter, since the prices aren't going down, i have heard there is a lot of people sharing a place to share the cost.

>>15974649
>pandemic
Don't worry, capitalism will find a cure, make it available and take care of your wife's son

>>15974695
When they say the left's criticism of israel is driven by anti-semitism i'm starting to think they might be right

>>15974690
I just said I'm willing to make sacrifices, take your meds you faggot yuppie

>>15974579
>the remaining 90% of the population are engaged in a Social Darwinistic Mad Max fight to even get food on the table.
This is a good thing though. Civilization is in many ways dysgenic. If they can’t even procure food for themselves they SHOULD die off in the streets. Survival of the fittest

>>15974714
then sacrifice your solipsistic wordlview and you'll have convinced me, because at this point, with your understanding of how the world should work, I don't think you know what sacrifice even actually means
as for the ad hominem, point in case. you've got nothing to say but a bunch of whiny shit

>>15974631
Are you going to explain why you think unions are bad, or are you going to admit that you actually don't know anything about economics, and just disagree with unions because some Youtuber convinced you that if you're right wing you have to be opposed to unions?

I bet you oppose being vegetarian too, not because you know anything about health, but because you know other right wingers are against it, so you are as well, because then you don't have to actually think why you're against it. You are a complete ideologue that adopts whatever viewpoints you think are "right wing".

>>15974664
That has a lot to do with forms of asset inflation that long run investment should work against. Prices stay high because real investment is curtailed.
>>15974669
You can essentially do that if you work for yourself. Labour market regulations exist because of the general welfare. It would be much better for you if you could employ anyone under any condition but other people don't want you importing people working at third world rates.

of the 180+ replies in this thread, maybe 10 of them involve a fruitful discussion. we could do better than this, i know we can

>>15974742
No most people are retards

>>15974728
Lol nooo you can't just live a minimalist, self-sufficient lifestyle that places more value on your finite time on this earth than producing for faceless corporate overlords who would never take my advice in a million years, that's solipsistic and selfish, you have to produce.

Kill yourself. I don't know why threads like these attract odious bootlickers such as yourself, but kill yourself. Bean counting termite

>>15974709
I didn't know the left didn't like Israel
It doesn't really make sense to me though that the US should give billions a year to Israel though

The arrogance in this thread only shows the true nature of capitalists and their lackeys. "If you're in unfortunate circumstances then you deserve to die." The dialectics are in motion for this system.

>>15974725
You need to be 18 to post on this website, edgelord.

>>15974749
i'm a retard too but generally avoid putting in my opinion unless i know i have a decent knowledge of the subject that contributes to the discussion... or does this self awareness make me one of the few non-retards here?

>>15974762
Forgot pic

>>15974762
Just like the French Revolution the pitchforks will come for them and their kids one day, don't worry. It's simply meant to be.

>>15974759
>working for a corporation in anathema to being self-sufficient and minimalist
sounds exactly like something a petulant child would say, and yea "bean counting termite" lol I'd love to see you you try an use language like that in the real world and not get laughed at. ffs get off the internet small child

>>15974725
You are part of that 90%.

>>15974759
lol this is exactly what solipsism is:
>anyone who presents a 'solution' that doesn't allign perfectly with my preconceived worldview is a BOOTLICKER! EVIL CORPORATION! REEEEEEE!

>>15974779
Kek millenials have the perfect time rn to le guillotine le rich, but theyd rather topple muh statues.

>>15974786
>>15974816
lol you can't be independent in a state built on the value of self-sufficiency unless you're working for shit you don't need. the absolute state.

>>15974779
>judgement day is coming, repent! repent!

too bad the majority of the people that got chopped by the committee for public safety were other revolutionaries, and the bourgeoisie remained untouched laffin

are people here larping as boomers or does their world view only consist of owning the libs?

>>15974821
BLM and the rioters are literally the ideological wing of capitalism, their job is to undermine state power even more, so that even more of society will be owned by Silicon Valley. This is literally the point of the defunding the police.

It's all part of "The Californian Ideology". Google it.

>>15973847
Sure, but you shouldn't go into 100k debt just because you were in that transitional period of your life and got hit by a car. Making a minimum wage is only a problem because you cant cover the expenses associated with a normal, safe life like health insurance, rent, and auto (depending on where you live)

>>15973851
Before the eviction crisis there were triple the available units then there were unhoused people. Market isnt solving it now, why would you expect it will solve it when it gets worse?

>>15974844
Every revolution has people from different classes in society, feudalism collapsed because the burghers supplanted the aristocracy by giving serfs a better paid job in the city than serfdom would ever give them, in the future someone smart is going to channel the ire of the working man into a dangerous mob that will bathe the streets with the blood of Silicon Valley CEOs.

>>15974853
i don't even call them libtards anymore, i call them libfarts because they always smell bad

>>15974843
>OH NO!! I HAVE TO WORK FOR SHIT I DONT TECHNICALLY NEED!!!!
again, pure solipsism
if you get paid for your job obviously SOMEONE needs your service or good. just because your understanding of the world cant jsutify why someone else would do that you've shut off an entire realm of existencd because of your own tiny world view
maybe you should just commit suicide?

>>15974853
>woah, you people have jobs?
>you guys want to have kids and not live in the street until someone pays you for nothing?
>you mean you guys don't have a moral issue with working now for success later?
>wtf?
lol, nice one anon

>>15973814
Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich is an excellent investigation and diagnosis. She takes it to the personal and anecdotal level by living off minimum wage only which makes it a much easier read than dense economic analysis.

On the other side, it not America only, but Capital in the 21st Century by Picketty is an exhaustive examination of income inequality across all of recorded history.

>>15973832
and then who's gonna do the minimum wage jobs?

>>15974875
If someone did that they would be labelled right-wing and you would oppose them because the Apple News algorithm would put a story from NPR telling you to at the top of your feed

>>15973832
If you contribute to the system, the system should have a place for you to live.

>>15974843
yeah because thats an oxymoron ya dumb fuck
if the state demand self-sufficiency, by being independent you are being not-self-sufficient.
is this a trick or are you actually trying to insist you are this stupid?

>>15974875
feudalism and serfdom ended in England and western Europe because so many people died during the black death that the workers could demand more from their lords since their lords couldn't get anyone else to replace them and so had to give into their demands otherwise their workers would leave, or at least that is what i have read about what partly made feudalism collapse. with mass and illegal migration you have so many more people willing to work for below minimum wage and be grateful that the other workers get shafted

>>15974874
"It's the invisible hand of the market, bro, just trust the market" - Adam Smith

>>15974905
This, especially considering how hard the fucking system you're contributing to has made it to live without contributing to it

>>15974227
Working people doing work that society needs to function deserve to not die at work, or at least to be compensated commensurate with that risk. If it's so bratty and entitled, and you think people who cant do it shouldnt work there, why don't you go ahead and start your own grocery store, and use your amazing labor market insights to hire only people who aren't entitled and undercut the competition? If you aren't sure where you're going to find those laborers, perhaps its because their demands are widespread and reasonable. If they were unreasonable, surely you'd easily be able to replace them with rationally self interested economic actors, right?

>>15974874
to be fair if it wasn't for bailouts (which Obama is responsible for whether you like it or not) the market price of houses would've probably fallen much harder in 2008.

>>15974930
>Working people doing work that society needs to function deserve to not die at work, or at least to be compensated commensurate with that risk

Like who? The cops? Racist much?

>>15973814
Communism is a jewish scheme designed to destroy western values carl marx was a rabbi you aren't fooling me with your lies

>>15974904
believe me they're trying.

>>15974905
but it does:
america generates such disgusting wealth, you can literally sleep on the streets of LA and be better off than a village in Zambia. granted, the streets are not fun or nice, but it seems a fitting parralel for only being able to offer the work an automated lever could do.
it's dark, but it has a certain poetic rationality

>>15974938
>Like who? The cops? Racist much?
why the fuck do you keep doing this?

>>15974932
I never praised Obama so I'm not sure why you brought that up. I want people to be housed. I don't like government bailouts since they always affect rich people, in this case, owners of property and up. Not helping renters doesn't make Obama a good guy to me. Should he be?

>>15974930
Do you have any idea how much it would cost to open a grocery store?

>>15974950
>dude just sleep on the streets
i can't tell if everyone here is baiting

>>15974938
What a joke, cops have a lower mortality rate than pizza delivery drivers.

>>15974930
You don't do your own grocery shopping do you? First, you had never seen someone buying a mountain of food with food stamps, second, you think there is a shortage of workers at grocery stores which is false. Next time you mom goes to the store get more tendies for you, ask if if you can go with her. It might open your eyes.

>>15974886
>ummm maybe you should just commit suicide?
I don't associate with capitalism's estrogenized sycophants. leave

>>15974909
self-sufficiency within the bounds of the system. you're having way too much trouble with this

>>15973889
it makes it easier, you dumb mutt.

>>15974962
Just find some investors, and wow them with your incredible diagnosis about how modern grocery workers don't know as much about the risks of their job better than you do.

>>15974952
Keep pointing our your hypocrisy? Because it makes you seethe

>>15974950
americans are fucking lost lmao

>>15974985
?????????????????

>>15974972
see
>>15974765
then end your life, it's going legitimately nowhere

>>15974966
Yeah that's some major goalposts being moved. If that's what's being defended it's undefendable. The wealthiest country in the world shouldn't have anyone on the streets.

>>15974971
I've long since moved out and do all my own shopping. Turns out, being on the receiving side of labor isn't really commensurate with understanding it as a worker. Not sure what your point is here - the poster i replied to mentioned that grocery workers shouldn't receive hazard pay and were entitled to demand it. What does that have to do with food stamps? I didn't mention a grocery worker shortage, how is that relevant? If anything, my analysis is that there are plenty of willing workers that this poster should tap into (unemployment is higher than it was a few months ago), but I am making fun of them for thinking they'd know better than workers actually in these positions.

>>15974983
Then it'd still be impossible to make money with a big chain grocery store in town with cheaper prices
So what then? Do I go burn down that chain grocery store so my business can survive and live the bougie lifestyle I've always wanted?

>>15973814
I never understand what the fuck this is supposed to mean
>Cannot afford rent
Yes. One bedroom apartments are expensive. Studio apartments are not worth it. If you're on a low income you're not supposed to rent the entire apartment, you get a 2,3, maybe 4 bedroom apartment and get roommates. Minimum wage is 7.25 per hour. Forty hours per week, four weeks per month that is 1160 per month. At minimum wage you're basically not paying federal income tax, so you can stick with the raw income more or less. So you end up with, estimating rent as 1/3 disposable income, ~400 per month you can safely budget for rent. There absolutely are places in most states available for that much. You can even take a 4 bedroom apartment and turn it into more of a dorm, with split rooms, so you're splitting the rent of a four bedroom rental five or six ways.

It's obviously not easy but if the people are reasonable it's absolutely sustainable and can give you grounding to gain experience, find a side-hustle, or get an associates/technical degree. People are just retarded and watch too much TV. They binge Friends on Netflix and think that that's what their life is supposed to be like, it's dumb. America has lived in a standard of luxury that is unheard of for like a century now. No one should be surprised it's unsustainable.

>>15974942
capitalism is a trick by some rich white guys to steal all your socially necessary labor time! it's all one big conspiracy by the koch brothers and milton friedman! just read this pamphlet by vladimir lenin and it will all be clear!

>>15974986
try "aware"
the west has typically just outsourced it's misery to the rest of the world. here in america we embrace it-- we made it after all.
the reason this is so shocking and horrifying to you is because you live in a comfy little bubble. but be careful, it's liable to pop, whereas I'll be ready. I've been scoping out my local homeless pop for years, they're my community. when the shit hits the fan we've got a deal worked out :)

>>15975021
You'll have the lowest prices in town, since while the other stores are shelling out hazard pay for their bratty entitled workers, everyone working for you understands that they don't deserve it, allowing you to save buckets on labor and lower prices to undercut your competition.

>>15975013
>The wealthiest country in the world shouldn't have anyone on the streets.
a whole lot of question begging going on

where do you think wealth, in principle, comes from if not exploitation? should a wealthy country that is also moral not embrace its own taint instead of giving it someone else? further we definitely import our share of taint. I don;t see what the confusion is here...

>>15974861
No, minimum wage is for when you still live with your parents, wher you don't have such expenses. If you still work mw at 30 you might as well move back home like the loser you are.

>>15975035
wealth comes from labor, exploitation just determines who receives it.

>>15975034
And just like that everyone's standard of living goes up because now the cost of their nutritional needs has been reduced by competition, amazing!