/lit/ - Literature

>>1596471
MY POLISH FRIEND SAID THE SAME THING.

>>1596473
SO DID MINE, HE IS CALLED ANONYMOUS. IT IS TRADITIONAL POLISH NAME.

>>1596473
>>1596473
yeah caps i remember you telling me now about how difficult it would be to translate it.

>>1596478
>>1596478
saging a literature thread?
really?
wow.

>>1596485
Oh God oh God, you must think I'm so uncool.

Good job on the high school lit, fag.

>>1596485
QUITE A FEW PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO ENJOY PRETENDING TO BE ME THESE DAYS, BB.

>>1596488
AND WHAT HAS THE LITERARY PRODIGY (YOU) READ AS OF LATE?

>>1596488
>>1596488
sure is you not having read Ferdydurke in here.
if you did maybe you'd want to discuss it instead of rebelling against my intellectual superiority.

>>1596492
I'd tell you, but you've probably never heard of them.
>>1596494
>sure is you not having read relatively well known book
>algreenphoto[1].jpg
>intellectual superiority
>mainstream value systems
Hipster fail.

>>1596489
They are not pretending to be you, they are mocking you. See the difference?

>>1596505
I WAS ASKING OUT OF CURIOSITY, TRY ME. MIGHT BE SOME WORKS I CAN PICK UP TO READ IN THE FUTURE

>>1596505
>>1596505
so you haven't read it then?
i mean, if you did read it then obviously you'd be discuss it, like i said earlier?

you just can't compete with the tripfags son, you're no where near to the necessary intelligence level :(

>>1596510
THEY COULD DO SO JUST AS EASILY WITHOUT CAPS. I HAVE PEOPLE POST IN CAPS AND SAGGING WHEN I AM NOT EVEN ONLINE.

>>1596516
You're right.
It's so easy to make fun of you.
With or without the caps.

BUMP

>>1596471

>i was also informed by this polish friend that i'll miss a lot of the humour and jokes etc because the novel is basically a commentary on the Polish language as much as anything.

No you weren't, you lying cunt. I told you yesterday while you were trolling with that shit about some bird you met in Tesco.

You don't have any friends, Polish or otherwise. Enjoy your book.

>>1596566
>>1596566
no actually you told me that, CAPSGUY's polish friend told me that and so did the polish girl who sent me the novel. i have her letter and i can quote it if you like?

>>1596566
MY POLISH FRIEND PRACTICALLY SAID THE SAME THING, AS I SAID BEFORE.

>>1596494

>rebelling against my intellectual superiority.

Ferdyduke is usually read by 15-16 year olds as part of their high school education. It's the Polish equivalent of Gatsby maybe To The Lighthouse. It's high modernism, but modernism has been part of the mainstream for so long now that to claim "intellectual superiority" for familiarity with the work makes a person look laughable. If I were to say "I'm reading The Green Hills of Africa, look at my intellectual superiority", you'd laugh at me, and rightly so. Actually that's a bad example, substitute "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man". Either way, your sense of superiority is entirely laughable, particularly to polandballs.

When you're a grown up, you'll realise that intellectual superiority usually involves not trying to prove to everyone in the room how clever you are, while actually proving to the rest of the room what a twat you are.

Then again, you may not - I know plenty of 45 year olds who are just as big an arsehole as you. Life, eh?

>>1596578

Ahh. A pen pal. I believe you have them, it's actual friends that's stretching the limits of credulity.

Just out of interest, how did she find an English language version of Ferdyduke in Poland? Can't have been easy: I think most people there buy it in the original.

here's the postcard i received from her:

"Dear Brown Bear, i hope the new and better year brings you as much fun as the gorals in the picture are having! i don't know what you'll make of this barely translatable novel but i hope you'll enjoy it nonethe less. you might miss a lot of the humour because it's about the Polish language really.
Don't let the pupa get you!
Lot's of hugs to my Brownbear!"

here's the pic of the postcard too

your status:
TOLD [ ]
Fucking TOLD [ ]
TOLDasaurus rex [ ]
No country for TOLD men [ ]
Stone TOLD Steve Austin [ ]
Leo TOLDstoy [ ]
Knight of the TOLD Republic [ ]
Cash4TOLD.com [X]

>>1596585
>>1596585
i don't know how she got the novel, she said she found the postcard in the same shop as she got the actual novel which so i'm guessing a bookstore?
i sent her Evelyn Waugh - A Handful of Dust in return, both my fav novel and an example of British Modernist writing

>>1596582
BUT BB'S ORIGINAL POST WASN'T ABOUT THE 'DIFFICULTY' OF THE NOVEL, BUT THE FACT THAT THE ORIGINAL WORK IS A PIECE OF HUMOUR IN A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE THAT MAY BE DIFFICULT TO FULLY APPRECIATE IN THE INTENDED FORM IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD THE CULTURAL UPBRINGING OR AT LEAST AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE LANGUAGE.

IF BB WAS POLISH AND/OR SPOKE POLISH, THEN I HIGHLY DOUBT HE WOULD'VE POSTED THIS THREAD.

>>1596582
>>1596582

please tell me where i claimed intelluectual superiority for reading Ferdydurke.
Please explain why reading a book read by 16 year olds is not as good as reading a book that 16 year olds do not read.

You keep talking about this book as if you've read it...but i don't see you trying to discuss it which is what i aimed for with this thread.

maybe you should spend more time discussing the novel and less time saying you've read it?

>>1596595
>>1596595
also this

>>1596592

OK. I know you're trolling me now, but I'm intrigued as to your justification for Waugh as a modernist. You really have no idea what you're talking about - you throw isms around like confetti and expect people to mistake that for education or eloquence.

I really, really want to hear this - go on, prove Waugh is a modernist. I'm going to take a shower, so you've got a few minutes to think about your response, no need to rush it. Marshall your arguments, and think about your evidence, because you're going to need to.

Brideshead Revisited? Modernist? Kiss it, you pretentious fool.

>>1596606
WHY DO YOU KEEP DIVERTING THE DISCUSSION AWAY FROM THE INTENDED TOPIC? JUST WONDERING BRO.

>>1596598

Yesterday, you criticised your imaginary girlfriend fr reading "children's books" (One of which I think was Infinite Jest, which ironically is similar in its linguistic playfulness to Ferdyduke), now you claim it's OK to read books for 16 year olds. Make your mind up.

>>1596494 was where you claimed intellectual superiority, incidentally.

>>1596606
catcher in the rye is modernist. u mad?

>>1596609

WHY ARE YOU WHITE-KNIGHTING BROWNBEAR AND PRETENDING TO BE ME, BRO?

>>1596613
AND WHO ARE YOU? CAPSGUYTHATDOESN'TSAG?

>>1596610
>>1596610
i claimed it because i am intellectually superior. i did not say it was because i was reading Ferdydurke.

>>1596610
>>1596610
she was not my 'gf' she was a hipster slut who read Finnegans Wake.
that is a baby book.
i said Infinite Jest was written by a child.

i don't think Ferdydurke is a book FOR 16 year olds, rather a book read BY 16 year olds. Much like the Great Gatsby, please check your facts before posting.

>>1596606
>>1596606
once again you're diverting from the topic.
also i said A Handful of Dust is a modernist novel you silly sausage.
and the reason it is a modernist novel is

juxtaposition of characters - Beaver and Tony
Figure of speech - throughout the novel
Intertextuality - look at the title for gods sake
Hyperbole - uses this throughout the expedition in Brazil
Parataxis - bit where Tony is in Brazil and drugged
Pun, satire and irony - the entire novel dohohoho (check the first page for some examples)
Antiparthasis - the bit in Brazil about the shining city
Symbolic representation - Hetton abby, the shining city, the mouse

does that explain why it falls under the category of modernist?

>>1596627
Quiet, everyone!

Brownbear speaks.

and for themes:

Breakdown of social norms divorce and the prostitute
Despairing individual behaviours in the face of an unmanageable future - Tony
Spiritual loneliness - absence of God in the abbey, Tony going on this search for a lost city in the jungle, his sense of lonliness and lost, his tragic ending
Alienation - Tony LAST is the LAST of the victorian gentlemen in this novel about the decline of the British Empire
Frustration when reading the text - Tony is an unlikeable character and does things which Waugh himself mocks (trying to pretend to sleep with a prostitute to save his wife's reputation after SHE cheats on HIM etc
Disillusionment - Tony in a nutshell
Rejection of outdated social systems - Brenda going for Beaver, Beavers mother, Jock being the MP
Objection to traditional thoughts and traditional moralities - Beaver and Brenda
Objection to religious thoughts - lack of God in the abbey again

>does that explain why it falls under the category of modernist?

Not in the least - it does explain why it was a reaction to, perhaps even a parody of modernism, but it doesn't make it modernist, no matter how many literary terms you google.

I suggest you read George E. McCartney; Evelyn Waugh and the Modernist Tradition or any of the other thousand books that make this point.

You can have your Ferdyduke thread back now that you've confirmed for me that you actually know nothing, and you're just a blowhard who confuses vocabulary with intellectualism.

Cheers, but just so you know - no matter how many times you troll Ferdyduke in front of people, nobody's going to say "Oh, Brownbear, you're so deep and literary" - anybody with any familiarity with the book knows it's pretty entry level, and anyone with no familiarity with the book doesn't give a fuck either way.

Evelyn Waugh: Modernist. Oh, you are priceless. You've quite made my day.

>>1596641
>>1596641
sure is you ignoring the facts bro.


here's the list of modernist characteristics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernist_literature#Characteristics_of_Modernity.2FModernism

maybe you can come back when:

a) your argument has some substance and isn't just you trying to bluff knowing what you're talking about

b) you have read Ferdydurke

have fun son!

>>1596644

Ooh, U Mad

So you get accused of googling literary terms, and then you cite a wiki page? Not doing yourself any favours there, son.

Not the guy you were arguing with, btw - just a spectator till now.

ANYWAYS
have any non-polish read Ferdydurke? any Polish on either?
what did you all think of it?
read the OP for more info!

You definitely lose a great deal by reading it in English. It's still good, though.

>>1596654
>>1596654
no actually i googled 'themes of modenism' and then told the guy who was arguing with me how a handful of dust ticked almost all of those boxes.

is using wikipedia a problem?
is this a better link for you?
http://www.brocku.ca/english/courses/2F55/modernism.php
(it's the place wiki got it's info from!)

>>1596658
>>1596658
what is it exactly that i lose?
i'm 100 pages in
he just took the break from the story to write his thoughts
i 'get' what he's trying to say so far, he outlines it pretty well, i'm just not sure where the loss would be?

> a blowhard who confuses vocabulary with intellectualism.

Well, I've read it in Polish as part of my high school education. Probably the most enjoyable novel on the reading list, though your bff was right about it not being easily translatable. The fact of Polish being a quirky language aside, a lot of this novel's power is in its rhythmic flow, translating it is probably comparable to work on poetry, dunno if the English translation is any good in this respect.
If you like it I seriously advise to:
1)learn Polish
2)read Trans-Atlantyk and Gombrowicz's Diaries (remarks on philosophy, art, the writing process, really inspiring, I've probably enjoyed them better than his novels)

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English-language_first_and_second_generation_modernist_writ
ers
>ctrl+f evelyn
>0 de 0
>ctrl+f waugh
>0 de 0
>Evelyn Waugh is not a modernist writer

>>1596674
>>1596674
please read my post and you'll see that i said the book a handful of dust was a modernist novel.

not that evelyn waugh wrote ONLY modernist novels.

>>1596668
>>1596668
hmmmmmmmm learning Polish would be a bit of a step, i'll look up those two, thankssssss