/lit/ - Literature

Fuck off Pedro

>>15936581
central american civiliazation has been dead since the Aztecs were yeeted

>>15936581
The best thing to come out of that region was the The Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel

>>15936581
>non-Whites
>good literature

>>15936581
mi diario desu

>>15936581
>implying this hasn't been the case worldwide
At least you have lots of stuff by Fuentes and Rulfo.

>>15936610
Don't tell that to Mexicans, they are going to sperg about how they are North Americans.

Mexicans truly believe they have more in common with burgers and leaves than with Central Americans.

>>15936581
Luisa Josefina Hernández - Los Grandes Muertos [The Great Dead] (2007)

Luisa Josefina Hernández - Roch. Novela Hagiográfica [Roch. Hagiographic Novel] (2008)

Luisa Josefina Hernández - El Gran Parque [The Great Park] (2014)

Non-fiction

Felipe Reyes Palacios, Edith Negrín (eds.) - Los Frutos de Luisa Josefina Hernández [Luisa Josefina Hernández's Fruits] (2011)

Non-Fiction

Felipe Reyes Palacios (ed.) - La Mirada Crítica de Luisa Josefina Hernández [Luisa Josefima Hernández's Critic Gaze] (2015)

Non-fiction

David Gaitán - Memorias de Luisa Josefina Hernández [Luisa Josefina Hernández's Memories] (2016)

These ain't recent books, but they're great.

Rodolfo Usigli - Teatro Completo, Volumenes I, II, III [Full Theater, Volumes I, II, III]

The best plays from these are:

Estado de Secreto [State of Secret]
El Presidente y el Ideal [The President and the Ideal]
Noche de Estío [Summer Night]
Medio Tono [Half Tone]
El Niño y la Niebla [The Boy and the Fog]
El Gesticulador [The Gesticulator]
La Mujer No Hace Milagros [Women Don't Make Miracles]

Corona de Sombra [Crown of Shadow]
Dios, Batidillo y la Mujer [God, Batidillo and the Woman]
Jano es una Muchacha [Jano's a Girl]
Un Día de Estos... [One of These Days...]
La Exposición [The Exposure]
Las Madres [The Mothers]
Corona de Fuego [Crown of Fire]
Corona de Luz [Crown of Light]

Un Navío Cargado de... [A Ship Full of...]
Los Viejos [The Old Men]

Some Usigli's individual covers:

Medio Tono [Half Tone]

El Niño y la Niebla [The Boy and the Fog]

El Gesticulador [The Gesticulator]
La Mujer No Hace Milagros [Women Don't Make Miracles]

Corona de Sombra [Crown of Shadow]

Corona de Luz [Crown of Light]

Sergio Magaña - Moctezuma II

Cortés y la Malinche (Los Argonautas) [Cortés and the Malinche (The Argonauts)] is kind of shitty.

Sergio Magaña - Los Signos del Zodiaco [The Zodiac Signs]

Luisa Josefina Hernández - Los Frutos Caidos [The Fallen Fruits]

The other play in this volume, Las Cosas Simples [The Simple Things], is shitty.

Luisa Josefina Hernández - La Memoria de Amadís [Amadís' Memory]

Luisa Josefina Hernández - Nostalgia de Troya [Troy's Nostalgia]

Luisa Josefina Hernández - La Calle de la Gran Ocasión [The Great Chance Street]

Luisa Josefina Hernández - 5 Monólogos [5 Monologues]

1. La Hija del Rey [The King's Daughter]
2. Ciertas Cosas [Some Things]
3. Apocrypha
4. Figuraciones [Figurations]
5. Jerusalén-Damasco [Jerusalem-Damascus]

Juan José Arreola - La Feria

Juan José Arreola - Confabulario

Juan José Arreola - Bestiario

>>15937346
sad

>>15937346
Just the normies...

>>15937346
It's not about having things in common with burgers, but about geographical location.

>>15937346
>he thinks geographical and cultural categories are the same
Burger education in a nutshell.

>>15936581
>who is Álvaro Enrigue
>who is Enrique Serna
>who is Sergio Pitol
It's like you only read all the best-seller shit they put on the top of the shelf. Rookie mistake, pleb.

>>15937649
these are great anon
es que si eres grande

Mexican here
just give me 10 years, I'll give you guys something to read

>>15939695
>my diary desu
Sure, kid.

>>15939695
dont waste ur time writing the great Mexican novel I’m already on it

>>15939704
I'm publishing mine next year. Try again.

>>15939700
>>15939704
i mean it

>>15936657
mi diario, psh (para ser honestos)

>>15936581

Expecting to get a straight answer in an Japanese Cartoon Board.

>>15939695
Ya somos dos, compañero.

>>15937351
bruh you're literally recommending a woman's books like if women were able to write anything worth reading

Not one of you reads good books

>>15940150
She's part of a better generation, though (born 1928) and has the right influences. Also:
>bruh
what are you, a nigger? Speak like a human next time.

>>15940150
>Who is Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz
>Who is Grazia Deledda
>Who is Elsa Morante
>Who is Sylvia Plath
>Who is Rosario Castellanos

I know there are a lot of overrated women writers around... but good writing is not a man/woman thing, it's a question of bravery, honesty and precison to look at the world as it is.

>>15940150
https://youtu.be/vRnikXRJ6hY

>>15940211
>>Who is Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz
She alone redeems female writers

>>15939704
Can you give us some details?

>>15936581
Why do you think a book about the drug trade can't be good?

>>15940150
Cringe and bluepilled

>>15936915
Carlos Fuentes is, in my opinion, bad. Not as shitty as José Agustín, but still bad.

That use of the second singular person in Aura is kind of pretentious, and lack of puntuation signs in one of his recent novels (I can't remember its name) is pointless and confusing (Saramago does the same thing, and even if I don't enjoy it that much, Saramago has dramatic notions that made his plots entertaining).

>>15941081
Terra Nostra is kino, pleb.

This one is fun as fuck. Hell, even the title is a silly sexual innuendo): Like Water for Chocolate.

>>15941109
Why?

>>15939704
wrong, im about to publish

>>15936581
>Mexican literature
>How come not a single good book has been written in 20 years? All of them are about
>>narcotics and drug culture
>>political incidents or dirt politics
>>porn

>Prove me wrong
Valeria Luiselli, Jorge Volpi, Alberto Chimal, Christopher Dominguez Michael, Ana Clavel, Gabriel Zaid, Paco Ignacio Taibo II.

>>15942712
>Paco Ignacio Taibo II

Is he good? What's the sensation reading his books? I went to one of his conferences and I though he was a really chill person... but I'm not sure the books he wrote are my kind of books.

>>15936581
Peak spanish lit is written on Taco Bell hot sauce packets.

>>15941125
Wait. As in pee in the butt? What the hell kind of simile is that?

>>15943186
I think it means someone so attractive and who's ready to be fucked. Hot water is ready to be mixed with chocolate.

>>15943193
That's a leap, but if its mexican literature then I guess it makes sense

>>15936581
Okay negros, nunca he leido literatura mexicana. Cuáles son los clásicos que recomiendan leer? Tengo un amigo autista que siempre habla de Juan Rulfo, le hago caso o es que tiene retraso y solo lee lo que le dijeron los libros de la SEP?

>>15943381
Esto es lo que dijo Borges sobre Pedro Páramo, así que tú dirás.

>>15943381
1. Estás pendejo
2. Aunque fuera un meme de la SEP, Juan Rulfo es de reconocimiento mundial, y por lo tanto, por más malo que fuese, deberías concederle el honor de ser leído.
3. Estás pendejo porque Juan Rulfo escribió cuentos cortos y si no fueras un milenial con déficit de atención podrías leer uno de ellos y ver si amerita su popularidad o no.

>>15943425
>cuentos cortos
Solo se llaman cuentos, no "cuentos cortos". Tampoco insultes tanto al chanero zoomer.

>>15943420
A la verga, he escuchado entrevistas de borges y suena un wey muy culero, me recuerda al borracho de Bukowski.
>>15943425
Sale wey a ver si me leo el llano en llamás. Obras esenciales de ese wey? Hay autores que se disfrutan mas leyendo su novelas en orden de publicación.

>>15943471
Tuve que enfatizar que son cortos para evitar hacerle pensar que perdería mucho tiempo, pero admito que no es muy diplomática mi manera de convencer

>>15936581
>How come not a single good book has been written in 20 years?
Based retard anon.
Literally none of the respected contemporary authors treat those topics. There's only like three good narconovelas authors. What fiction deals with dirt politics? I'm under the impression only journalists deal with that. Many contemporary authors seem to be, more than anything, of a continuation of the vanguard. I guess many talk about sex and the body, but not really porn. Cristina Rivera Garza talks about prostitution, but that's literally a topic since the porfiriatio.
We probably have the best contemporary lit. of latin america right now, but you probably only check Amazon's most sold page.
>>15940163
Currently halfway through his book on sor Juana. Some parts of it are really good, some are just plain wrong. His psychological portrait of sor Juana is literally all invented. He seems to fall into the same mistakes he criticizes Pfandl of falling into.

>>15943493
Nah, ya vi que sí es un pendejo. Retiro lo dicho. No pierdas tu tiempo.

>>15943522
Jajaj chinga tu madre.

>>15943381
Read Pedro Páramo and Los años falsos, by Josefina Vicens. To me, those are the two fundamental Mexican novels. Some Carlos Fuentes novels (Artemio Cruz, La región..., Terra Nostra, Aura) and Balún Canán by Rosario Castellanos are very good. Elena Garro is also very much worth reading, as is Juan Jose Arreola. If you're into poetry, Villaurrutia and Gorostiza are the way to go (Owen and Cuesta too, but they are much more esoteric in comparison).
Rulfo only published two books, El llano en llamas (cuentos) and Pedro Páramo (novela). He wrote more stuff, but its mostly marginalia in comparison. Octavio Paz, very much a different writer in temperament, scope and style, could be a nice read if you're not into reading. El laberinto de la soledad is a very solid book, to be debated rather than enshrined.

Mexican literature is very rich; I've only mentioned a few important names in the canon, but there's so much more to read.

>>15943490
>Obras esenciales de ese wey?
No mames tiene sólo una novela y el llano en llamas cabrón. Sólo leelo, no te toma más de tres semanas. Fuera de eso sólo tiene algunos cuentos que nunca publicó o publicó en revistas, nada que ocupe más de 150 páginas. Pedro Páramo sigue siendo la mejor novela mexicana, y las mejores que se han publicado desde entonces están inspiradas de alguna manera u otra por ella.

>>15943554
>>15943563
Gracias negros, hace años dejé de leer pero ahora me volvíeron a entrar las ganas, ya me estaba hartando de leer puro sangre azul.

>>15943563
>Sólo leelo, no te toma más de tres semanas.
Por más pendejo que esté en tres días se los alcanza a leer. Pero siento que Pedro Páramo lo va a filtrar bien culero.
>y las mejores que se han publicado desde entonces están inspiradas de alguna manera u otra por ella.
No necesariamente pero varias sí.

>>15943554
>Los años falsos, by Josefina Vicens
Based. Check out El hipogeo secreto by Elizondo. Although not always acknowledged, most of Elizondo's writing would not exist if not for Vicens. In some ways I feel El hipogeo secreto is just the next logical step from Vicens, if that makes sense.
>El laberinto de la soledad is a very solid book, to be debated rather than enshrined.
Agreed, too bad Octavio Paz is such a controversial figure which most people only blindly hate or love. His work needs to be reassesed and we need to reach a more moderate conclusion regarding it. That will probably take many years though, many have chosen to just ignore him instead, which I feel is not the best course of action to take.
>>15943587
>No necesariamente pero varias sí.
Sí, tal vez no todas, tal vez estoy algo sesgado por mis gustos personales. Farabeuf y Nadie me verá llorar, las mejores novelas mexicanas que he leído publicadas desde Pedro Páramo, le deben bastante a Rulfo.

>>15943138
>>Paco Ignacio Taibo II

>Is he good? What's the sensation reading his books? I went to one of his conferences and I though he was a really chill person... but I'm not sure the books he wrote are my kind of books.
History are top, the level of research is unparalleled by anyone. Many topics he touches where unknown before his work.

Narrative is sober, social topics, noir. It will not be on the level of the meme authors we usually talk about here, but it's funny and comfy.

And yes, HE IS SUPER CHILL.

>>15943186
Like Water for Chocolate = Hot

Applied to the protagonist: Horny.

>>15943629
>most of Elizondo's writing would not exist if not for Vicens. In some ways I feel El hipogeo secreto is just the next logical step from Vicens, if that makes sense.
Now that's a take I haven't heard before. Now I'll have to read Elizondo more carefully to see what you mean by that.

I also agree with what you say about Paz. But it's something he had coming, and I think he was more or less expecting it and was prepared for it. He's certainly not the be-all and end-all of Mexican literature (I don't think Rulfo is either, for that matter), but his influence and work should be critically read instead of petrified by institutionalization (again, something which he himself built for his own work even though many times he attacked that in his writing).

>>15943741
I don't like how Taibo is managing the FCE. He's fucking it up big time, but since he's AMLO's buddy there's not much one can do about it.

>>15943490
Don't be a faggot and avoid these kind of "critics". Read it by yourself and you will know if Borges was right or not.

>>15937346
Fake among the poors. Unfortunately all too real with our """middle class"""

>>15943824
The middle class is right about this, then.

>>15943831
"No somos indios, my friend, somos Americanos xDDD"
Fucking shameful. The worst part is a good portion of these people are what we think of when we say "cara de nopal". They are worse than non-bilingual ch*canos.

>>15943856
I don't think you understand. Mexico is geographically part of the continent North America. That has nothing to do with being from the US or not. The US is not all of North America.

>>15943872
Did you not read the post the original reply was to? They think because of (((geography))) they are somehow closer in thought, culture, and status to the U.S.A. than to the countries south of it Mexico and even their fellow countrymen. All they are doing is making fools of us all.

>>15943554
You don't like José Emilio Pacheco, anon? Las Batallas en el Desierto (The Battles in the Dessert) is mainstream as fuck, but it's touching as hell. And his short text called Amanuense de Arreola (Arreola's Amanuensis) is gold.

>>15943914
Ah, yes, I've read those two texts. Pacheco is also a good author, though I'm not particularly fond of this poetry. I only mentioned some writers, but obviously there are a lot more. Efraín Huerta, José Revueltas, Salvador Elizondo, Ramón López Velarde, Amparo Dávila, Nellie Campobello... The list goes on.

Thread music:

https://youtu.be/YidwDRbj6rY

>>15943914
Also, it's "desert" for "desierto". "Dessert" means "postre".

>>15943789
>Now that's a take I haven't heard before
I had been playing along with the idea for some time and I afterwards talked about it with a professor and he seemed to agree. After reading some essays on Elizondo I have seen that it is sometimes mentioned offhandedly, other times not only in regards to him but also to the rest of La escritura. Furthermore, I feel El hipogeo secreto is an important piece not only of fiction but of literary theory too, and El libro vacío also has, in my opinion, some importance on that area.
> something which he himself built for his own work even though many times he attacked that in his writing
Are you familiar with the work of Sánchez Prado? I'm currently reading his thesis and he seems to deal with precisely that aspect of Paz' writing and in general with others writers in the mexican tradition. I agree too on Rulfo, I sometimes get carried away regarding his work, it's just always surprising to me what he achieved in such little space with Pedro Páramo.

>I don't like how Taibo is managing the FCE. He's fucking it up big time, but since he's AMLO's buddy there's not much one can do about it.

Why? Cheap books, opening bookstores, eliminating cronism.

>>15936581
Why wouldn't they? Everything south of US is just a CIA drug op

>>15943913
I don't think that was the case. The guy said "muh Central American civilization" which doesn't even exist and the other faggot replied "B-but Mexicans think they're North Americans." When people say Mexico is part of North America, that's exactly what they mean. It's in the same tectonic plate. (((Culturally))), Mexico belongs to the region Latin America, but geographically to North America. I don't see how's that controversial. It's literally a fact.

>>15943971
Rather, he's doing a cheapening of books. He cancelled a lot of publications and reprintings, and he no longer wishes to publish texts that are not "para el pueblo". His management of the international branches of the FCE has been disastrous. Now they can't publish books themselves other than the ones Taibo sends them from Mexico. A lot of good translations and studies have been published by the international branches, and now some of them are even closing down (and this happened before the covid crisis). Of course, that idiot thinks he's championing some vague idea about "literature for the people", but it's very clear that he's not fit for a publishing house as big and important as the FCE. He's got some ok ideas, but he's implementing them badly.

>>15943946
>Las Batallas en el Postre

>>15944015
He's a decent writer but an awful commie tier politician.

>>15943965
I found El libro vacío to be kinda derivative, but maybe that's because it was building on a tradition that I have read plenty before. For me, Los años falsos is Vincen's masterpiece, and I find it surprising that that's the book which gets less attention of the two. It builds upon Pedro Páramo, but instead of dealing with the Mexican Revolution and its immediate consequences, it deals with the prolongation of the Revolution as ideology in the modern urban area. It's masterful, and completes what Rulfo set out to do.

I'm not acquainted with Sánchez Pedro, but now that you mention it, I can see why the self-institutionalization of writers in the Mexican tradition is a relevant area of study.

>>15944051
I don't know about his writing, and there's literally nothing wrong with communism, but Taibo is a hack ideologue, if that's what you mean by that.

>>15944061
Oh! Los años falsos sounds like Usigli's El gesticulador.

>>15944071
>hack ideologue
Yes, that's what I meant. He has good intentions but he's just insanely incompetent.

>>15944071
>and there's literally nothing wrong with communism
otro pendejo

>>15944071
>there's literally nothing wrong with comunism

>>15944091
>>15944094
Learn what communism actually means and then you can argue adequately.

>>15944108
Cualquier movimiento social popular esta destinada a terminar en tiranía. Si vas a argumentar que el hecho que eso ocurra no indica que sea malo en si el comunismo, podríamos mejor idear otro utopía a nuestro mejor antojo, ya que hemos decidido dejar las consecuencias de la realidad a un lado

>>15944108
I think the term you're looking for is anarcho-communism.

>>15944133
What am I looking at here?

>>15944132
Based

>>15944143
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk

>>15944152
based seinfeldposter

>>15944159
thanks

>>15938524
enrigue es un mojon del perro de pitol comparado con pitol

>>15943856
Los de la clase media quieren ser gringos y los pobres quieren ser clase media.

>>15944173
Quizá, pero al menos Enrigue está vivo.

>>15944061
>it was building on a tradition that I have read plenty before
Which tradition is that? I've always held El libro vacío in high esteem because it seems to be the inaugural work in a tradition which would later would be picked up by Elizondo, La escritura, Julieta Campos etc. I have to admit I've not read Los años falsos, I was always afraid it might disappoint me, I had been looking for something to read so I'll finally give it a chance.
>I can see why the self-institutionalization of writers in the Mexican tradition is a relevant area of study.
It's very interesting, you do not have to read all of Sánchez' thesis, by just reading the first few pages of it you get an idea of it. There's also some work regarding self-institutionalization in Rulfo's work, which is also very interesting, being in his case is much more ambivalent than in most other authors.

>>15944188
>decir que México es parte de América del Norte es "querer ser gringo"

>>15944132
>Cualquier movimiento social popular esta destinada a terminar en tiranía
That's a very sweeping statement, but it's untrue as generalization. Anarchist movements throughout history prove it wrong. By communism I mean a social system which negates the principal features of capitalist society. In other words, a society where production is for the direct satisfaction of human needs without the mediation of a process of buying and selling or exchange, where the means of production are commonly owned and democratically controlled, where there are neither social classes, the state, nor money. It is interchangeable as a term with "socialism". So I don't see how you arrive at the conclusion that "any popular social movement is destined to end in tyranny" when I mention communism. That's a non-sequitur. It seems to me that you are just waxing prophetic based on a shaky understanding of political theories you don't know much about.

>>15944133
I wasn't thinking about it specifically, but it's a good example of such a society.

>>15943381
rulfo was a stooge financed by the CIA

>>15944196
>Which tradition is that?
"The writer which writes about the impossibility of writing". El pozo by Onetti comes to mind, and I have the impression that I've read many such works before, mainly by starting writers. Of course, this is not to diminish Vincens, since she develops it masterfully and, as you say, opens the tradition in México. But I honestly prefer Los años falsos. I guarantee you it won't dissapoint you, but I'll suggest you shed your expectations in order not to set the bar ridiculously high.

>>15944232
>rulfo was a stooge financed by the CIA

>>15944222
https://youtu.be/-nb21Z6uXWA

>>15944252
Not watching that.

>>15944222
El hecho que todos los movimientos comunistas hayan culminado en la tiranía no lo hace un "non-sequitur", de hecho lo hace muy relevante a lo que reclamé. Esto es el problema con la lógica establecida actual, y eso es que, derivado de la experiencia y sabiduría, si vemos que ciertos movimientos conllevan a ciertas consecuencias en la mayoría de los casos, es de hecho que hay algo entretejido en ese movimiento que culmina en dichas consecuencias.

>>15944222
Why are you pro-communist?

>>15944210
Siguete haciendo guey. Si niegas que cualquiera que se sale de ser alabañil no se comiensa a creer gringo, entonces eres uno de ellos. Ven a los Estados Unidos como los Estadunidenses ven a Francia.

>>15944210
I mean, your discusion is stupid... but saying "México belongs to North America" is an unconscious indoctrination. Weak minds will believe they're superior at an unconscious level. Unconscious mexican citizens should not say "México belong to North America"...

>>15944260
"There's no capitalist system or communist system... it's all the same, a monetary system".

>>15943519
>We probably have the best contemporary lit. of latin america right now, but you probably only check Amazon's most sold page.
¿Ejemplos?

>>15944304
And this is something very important to take into account. Technique, as it is, has completely ruined any chance of any system from working.
Unless we embrace an anti-intellectual culture, and I mean in the sense where we despise technology and forbid every application of technique, allowing men to merely go as far as whatever their parents teach them in the field without schooling them, we are doomed to become slaves in this world.

>>15944294
What the fuck are you even talking about? Spain belongs to Western Europe, Argentina belongs to South America, Japan belongs to East Asia and Mexico belongs to North America. What's so controverial about a literal fact?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America

>>15944314
We're already slaves... this shit started 100 years ago, we need another 100 years to change it little by little.

>>15944322
A lo que se refiere es que en el léxico común mexicano, nosotros nos referimos al país de los Estados Unidos de Norteamérica como Norteamérica, y por ende, por más ridículo que suene, le da la idea a ciertas personas que ser de norte-américa nos hace como Norteamérica.

>>15944331
>nosotros nos referimos al país de los Estados Unidos de Norteamérica como Norteamérica
Eso lo he escuchado en sudamericanos y españoles. Aquí en México le decimos Estados Unidos de América y América del Norte es la parte norte del continente. Quien te está lavando el cerebro son los sudamericanos y los españoles.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9rica_del_Norte

>>15944266
But surely you realize that those consequences have historical and ideological roots. Stalinist Russia and Maoist China were not communist: they were capitalist states. Marxism-Leninism failed when it championed the idea of seizing state power in order to further communist goals, and it gave way to the enormities of Stalin and Mao. Marxism is communist, but communism is not only Marxist. Also, write in English or the thread will get deleted.

>>15944271
I'm an anarchist actually. I'm pro-communism in so far as it offers a better alternative to capitalism, based on the definition I presented above, but I realize that it also needs the element of anarchy in order to prevent the very consequences the other anon takes as ingrained in communism as political and economic theory.

>>15944304
Thanks for the summary. And that's why we also need to abolish the monetary system.

>>15944311
no hay. la respuesta es claramente arjentina. en una de esas hasta chile.

>>15944322
Conscious mind understands literal things without any problems... but unconscious mind tends to add a symbolic meaning to literal statutes.

If an alienated mexican mind (with very little relation with his conscious mind) tells the phrase "México belongs to North America", that person will probably become even more alienated, because the symbolic meaning of that phrase, thanks to today's mediatic manipulation, is "Mexico belongs to USA" or "México is as good as USA".

Considering how alienated is mexican people, I think we should avoid saying phrases like that until we reach consciouness.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-up_map_orientation

>Stalinist Russia and Maoist China were not communist: they were capitalist states.
Estoy 100% de acuerdo. Y lo que ocurrió ocurrirá para siempre porque los movimientos sociales-democraticos o comunistas o anarco-comunistas como quieras llamarles, por la naturaleza que rige la eficiencia y eso es que siempre hay un líder, no permite otra opción más que de la jerarquía.
O eso es lo que pienso yo. No sé con exactitud porque terminan realmente los movimientos social-democráticos en tiranía, pero la evidencia está clara en la historia.
Y eso, es, hablando en lo que ocurrió en el siglo veinte. Hoy en día tenemos una abominación total (y fundamental para el comunismo) llamado la técnica, me refiero al desarrollo de la eficiencia en todas las cosas hechas e imaginadas y por imaginarse en este mundo.

Quisiera reiterar que si vamos a hablar de utopías e ignorar la realidad, podríamos mejor diseñar uno que más nos conviene.

>>15944395
>stop saying facts because it hurts my feefees and weak mind
Take your meds, schizo.

>>15944395
Mexico belongs to North America.

>>15943519
>We probably have the best contemporary lit. of latin america right now

>>15944429
Not gonna lie, this make me lost.

>>15944361
De nuevo, ¿ejemplos?

>>15944415
There's an Fairy Odd Parents' episode that explain it very well.

>>15944331
Nunca he escuchado a ningun Mexicano referirse a Estados Unidos como Norteamérica. De hecho, las mayoría se siente ofendido cuando Estados Unidos se hace llamar América, a pesar de que es literalmente el nombre del país.

>>15944395
You sound mentally ill

>>15944415
Nadie habla de utopías aquí, estás atacando un hombre de paja. Peor: parece que ni en inglés puedes argumentar.

>Estoy 100% de acuerdo. Y lo que ocurrió ocurrirá para siempre
Es decir, concuerdas con que son estados capitalistas, porque resultaron de un movimiento comunista y por eso son comunistas siendo estados capitalistas. Échale más ganas.

>sociales-democraticos o comunistas o anarco-comunistas como quieras llamarles
Me doy cuenta de que no tienes idea de lo que significan los términos que atacas y los amontonas en un enemigo ideal cuyo nombre es diferente. En particular porque hablas sobre que "siempre hay un líder" para criticar al anarcocomunismo.

>la evidencia está clara en la historia
Un entendimiento superficial y general de historia no es evidencia. Lee más y con más atención.

>fundamental para el comunismo
Estás pérdido. Hoy en día lo que hay es el capitalismo más voraz y un retorno a regímenes autoritarios, en su mayoría de derecha. Confirmo que no sabes qué es el comunismo, ni parece que te interese saber.

El problema de la técnica es serio y es un enemigo claro, pero está íntimamente relacionado con el desarrollo industrial capitalista. Al leerte, veo que mezclas teoría política con teoría económica. Tu crítica heideggeriana/jungeriana a la técnica va por buen camino, pero te falta mucho para enfocarla y entenderla en términos concretos e históricos.

En tu caso creo que te falta pensar y leer más sobre las verdaderas causas y consecuencias que surgen de la historia, además de las ideologías. Ya para terminar, el socialismo como lo definí arriba (definición que te valió un pepino a la hora de opinar) no es utopía, y existen ejemplos históricos que lo comprueban (Rojava en Siria, el EZLN en México, los anarquistas catalanes de la Guerra Civil Española, etc). Me parece notable que a la mención de comunismo saltes con que se habla de utopías y se ignora la realidad, cuando tú mismo no conoces esa realidad en su totalidad ni tampoco se habla de utopías en ningún momento.

I'm Hispanic and I'm interested in reading Mexican literature from authors who aren't commie sympathizers or blind supporters of policies implimented by Cárdenas.

I assume I just narrowed my options to the size of needle's eye right then and there.

>>15943381
>okay negros
lol

>>15944552
Viene de Hispachan el muchacho

>>15944311
Las figuras más importantes son Álvaro Enrigue, Mario Bellatín, Fernanda Melchor, Cristina Rivera Garza y Valeria Luiselli (su obra más reciente no se ve tan buena pero al menos sus primeros libros son muy buenos). Hay alrededor de ellos algunos nombres secundarios, no necesariamente peores pero no tan reconocidos. Luego están algunas propuestas más experimentales como la llamada necroescritura (que según lo que he leído está relacionada con la literatura argentina contemporánea –o se asemejan– aunque no puedo confirmarlo) y en la poesía también, aunque ésta no me interesa tanto y no podría decirte ningún nombre. También están los del Crack pero no sé si sigan contando como contemporáneos.

>>15944415
>sociales-democraticos
Social-democracy is no socialism, my fellow anon. The reason why only Marxist-Leninist states have managed to survive is because any other kind of non-authoritatian socialist movements have been completely stamped out by outside intervention.
Maybe if the US and other western countries didn't intervene every time a country chooses a Socialist leader Democractically and instead places a brutal dictator there would be no need for Marxism-Leninism.

>>15944544
As a Mexican myself I have to say that Cardenas was one of our best presidents. Not even bait.
PEMEX, TELMEX, CFE, Mexican Railways, etc all gave us control of our destiny, rather than relying on outside countries to control our country. Nowadays a lot of privatization has happened that made TELMEX private, for example, and made PEMEX a shadow of its former self, but at the time these companies gave the lower classes in the country a lot of opportunities for social mobility.

>>15944595
>TELMEX
I still hate PRI for giving away TELMEX to that fucking Lebanese fat cunt.

>>15944583
>any other kind of non-authoritatian socialist movements have been completely stamped out by outside intervention.
Don't forget one of the first things the Bolsheviks did was shot the anarchists. It's the State which stamps out dissenters, be it a State from the outside or the inside.

>>15944544
>I'm Hispanic and I'm interested in reading Mexican literature from authors who aren't commie sympathizers or blind supporters of policies implimented by Cárdenas.

>I assume I just narrowed my options to the size
>of needle's eye right then and there.
Almost everyone will not fall into that category. Mexican writers had been always critical of the government. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sure there are some communists, like Revueltas, but those are rare. A strong apolitical opionion is common. Try Fuentes, very anti state, try Paz hated by the communist party for his criticism of the doctrine, try Salvador Novo, hater of the 68 students rise. All those are of the most popular writers in Mexico and don't belong to that group you said.

>>15944604
Same here, anon. Our country has been sold, slowly, and piece by piece to foreign actors. And there's people today that defend it!

>>15944542
Pequeños estados tribales que no han culminado su lucha aún, y que están aún sujetos a la historia para ver sus frutos.
Demuéstrame otro ejemplo que ya termino.
Y hablas de utopías porque asumes que la eficiencia no arruinaría tu estado de anarquía como lo más seguro que ocurririá. Yo por mi lado me voy por mi propia utopía. No sé como ordenaría la comunidad o la economía, pero si sé que definitivamente, a fin de proteger la raza humana, volvería a una mentalidad de la edad media a fin de quemar brujas y herejes para evitar todo progreso tecnológico.

>>15944624
Said Pedro, on a computer, probably with plumbing going to his house, and with electricity powering the the fridge in which he has different produce, mostly produced through modern mechanized agricultural practices.

>>15944624
>Pequeños estados tribales que no han culminado su lucha aún, y que están aún sujetos a la historia para ver sus frutos
Esto no es contra argumento a lo que dije.

>Demuéstrame otro ejemplo que ya termino.
Stop moving goalposts. La historia aún no termina, querido. Está en proceso. Nosotros somos sus estragos y los futuros serán los nuestros, a menos que cambiemos para mejorar. Aunque mencionara algún ejemplo, lo desdeñarías por cualquier otra razón.

>Y hablas de utopías porque asumes que la eficiencia no arruinaría tu estado de anarquía como lo más seguro que ocurririá.
No asumo tal cosa, tú eres el que asume que la asumo. Yo no hablo de utopías porque no existen. Hablo de alternativas mejores, de procesos más libres y más sanos. Yo no puedo decir que "lo más seguro que ocurrirá" sea tal o cual cosa; no veo el futuro, al contrario de ti. Pero sí sé que la anarquía es un proceso, algo que se construye con las manos y en comunidad, que rechaza la técnica por considerarla abominable y que opta por el ser humano y la naturaleza en lugar del progreso y el consumerismo.

>a fin de proteger la raza humana, volvería a una mentalidad de la edad media a fin de quemar brujas y herejes para evitar todo progreso tecnológico.
Usualmente evito caer en ad hominems para mantener un buen de nivel de discurso, pero es claro que no te interesó nunca mantenerlo. Dicho eso, termino así: eres un pendejo, y peor, un pendejo reaccionario, y peor, un pendejo reaccionario primitivista. Lo tuyo es puro onanismo; tu crítica a la técnica no va más allá. Y por eso, por cobarde que eres, te compadezco.

>>15943856

Los de la clase media quieren ser gringos y los pobres quieren ser clase media.

>>15944709
>si lo publico otra vez, quizá gane el argumento

>>15944715
What argument? My post marked an error when I tried to post it hours ago, didn’t realize this and same fagged.

Also you’re a cringy third worlder.

>>15944749
Your internet connection is shit and you're retarded LMAO I'd rather be a "third worlder" than a useless faggot like you.

>>15944544
If you want to read a wise critic to Cárdenas administration, I suggest you to read El Presidente y el Ideal (The President and the Ideal) and Un Días de Estos... (One of These Days...) by Rodolfo Usigli.

>>15944595
I agree with this, but Cárdenas had another kind of vicious, like ingenuity to think the PRI wouldn't be the PRI

>>15944544
Luisa Josefina Hernández falls in this category.

>>15944609
>Fuentes, Paz, Novo
Those aren't writers but bureaucrats.

>>15946479
>Political stuff by LJH

La Paz Ficticia (The Fictional Peace)
La Fiesta del Mulato (Mulatto's Party)
Historia de un Anillo (A Ring's Story)
En Una Noche Como Esta (In Such a Night)
Mondo y Lirondo
El Parque II (Park II)
El Parque III (Park III)

You can find some of her plays here:
https://cdigital.uv.mx/discover

>>15936581
La historia de mis dientes is kino

>>15936581
carlos velazquez

>>15946622
Based UV.

¿Qué estudias?

>>15947440
Literatura Dramática y Teatro (Dramatic Literature and Theater).

>>15946622
now i miss those based $10 remates

>>15948127
http://valordecambio.com/mapa-de-librerias-de-viejo-de-la-ciudad-de-mexico-ciudadanos-en-red/

I'm sure some of these are still open.

>>15944609
>Try Fuentes, very anti state
Lmao how is fuentes anti state? He was one of Echeverria's strongest supporters, even after El halconazo. He literally campaigned for Echeverria saying shit like Echeverria o fascismo.

>>15944322
Mexico belongs to north america and north america in turn belongs to a
(((Israel))))

>>15943856
non-bilingual chicano here
stay mad

>>15949225
Virgin commiefag or catholic larper still butthurt from being btfo during 20th century v chad esoteric lopez portilloist revolutionary nationalist hidrocarbon cultist knows hegels philosophy of right from memory understands the true esoteric meaning of the 4th transformation as the restoration of the mexicayotl religion of our ancestors under a neocorporatst total state directed twards the creation of a cosmic race bred from the finest specimens of all races of man

>>15949812
Lmao now that you mention it just when AMLO was running for president this last time there was this one guy attributing all those things to him creating an ideology he called Obredorismo. I think he took his page down, so no updates on the new vanguard ideology.

>>15940211
>it's a question of bravery, honesty and precison to look at the world as it is.
BASED.

>>15949812
Could you delve in this esoteric meaning behind mexican fourth transformation? I unironically believe there's something of it behind AMLO's procedures.

To mantain this shit on topic, is there good mexican books (fiction or non-fiction) about magic?

This one is a Brechtian play about Mexican Santería, paranormal stuff and the unknown:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cdigital.uv.mx/bitstream/handle/123456789/3788/19871213P98.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1%26isAllowed%3Dy&ved=2ahUKEwjkvZ6HhOfqAhVnFTQIHb8fB1kQFjAJegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3wXk7l3ZLAynkTLYn0I9Jc

>>15951091
muñiz huberman's early works and some of seligson's works are alright and kind of get there

>>15936581
>>15936581
I fucking hate the Sangre de Campeon autor. Fucking bullshit dressed as moral disque literature. Pure garbage of a retarded ashole. Also, his writting style is shitty

>>15951997
Anon, you just brough to my memory that one of the first books I read was La Fuerza de Sheccid. Holy cow, now I'm ashamed.

>>15937346
it has nothing to do with being more similar to burgers you dumbfuck, they are literally in the north. North America is a continent, not "the white countries in the new world". I guarantee mexicans do not want to have a lot in common with burgers, especially now that they're showing the world the extent of their brain drain

>>15943586
it's nice to see my high school spanish didn't totally go to waste

>>15936581
>Mexican
>literature
The cheeky thing is that most Mexicans are literal Mexican't read, so you get pop trash like the things you're talking about.
Literally the Mexican anons ITT are the top 1% and are, probably, literature majors since normalfags hate to read anything more than a paragraph, so good Mexican literature, more often than not, stays in the literary shadows until some intellectual picks them after the author's dead or some shit.

I bet all Mexicanons are the Whitest person the Americans would see in their lives, judging from what I am reading.

t. MexiCAN READ

>>15944444

>>15951091
The novel don q by. former president don jose lopez portillo takes the form of a gnostic pseudo platonic dialogue between the apprentice pepito and the plumed serpent quetzalcoatl returning over from the other side of the sea. He also taught for years this course on hegels philosophy of right at unam.Notably plagiarized by the colombian mystagogue aun weor of the gnostic association of research into anthropological and cultural matters. Samael's gnosis approaches the zizekian definition of ideology as that which makes the sex relation possible. See also dr arturo rosenblueth of the national institute of cardiology cocredited with norbert wiener as the originator of the science of cybernetics. Carlos Slim's son sits on board of blackrock inc. A succesful Artists creates simulacra allligning with the institutional imperative of sublimation all the while feeding the flames of pervertion that keep it all going round.
ws://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael_Aun_Weor&ved=2ahUKEwjpoJ3s3OfqAhUbCc0KHS9cCT8QFjASegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1-tTT3gBG7siLstviAPalZ

>>15937346
>burger education

Alright, this is a big thread with many mexicobros, so here's the thing: I will be going on a South American lit binge soon and I of course plan to also feature Mexicans. Who do you consider the classics and the best the country gave? A few names along with works will suffice, if someone finds a moment to respond.

>>15955008
Here I got you m8

>>15955033
Thank you. This should serve nicely to fill the gaps in my own reading list.

>>15955008
>Mexican Poetry
Nezahualcóyotl
http://www.los-poetas.com/netz1.htm

Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz
Her Obras Completas is worth it.

Rosario Castellanos
https://www.palabravirtual.com/index.php?ir=ver_voz1.php&wid=1914&p=Rosario%20Castellanos&t=Lecciones%20de%20las%20cosas

>Mexican Theater
Rodolfo Usigli: Corona de Sombra, de Fuego, de Luz; El Gesticulador

Sergio Magaña: Moctezuma II

Luisa Josefina Hernández: Los Grandes Muertos (a 12 play saga, aesthetically similar to a mexican version of Cien Años de Soledad, in theater format); El Gran Parque (5 plays about parks as cities' oasis); Las Bodas (the most painful play you'll ever read about the ephemeral nature of love).

>Mexican narrative
Juan José Arreola
Everything from him.

José Emilio Pacheco
The Battles in the Desert

Luisa Josefina Hernández
Nostalgia de Troya (a selfish man is loved and hated through some people through his travels around the world); Apocalipsis cum Figuris and Roch. Novela Hagiográfica (both novels with medieval aesthetic).

>>15943193