/lit/ - Literature

Dont read Marx. His autism isnt worth your time.

>>15927614
But how will I learn about marxism then?

>>15927610
neither if you haven't read Hegel.

Dont read Nietzsche. His schizophrenia isnt worth your time.

Don't read

>>15927619
By sticking your head directly into your ass

>>15927610
Read Marx and then Nietzsche who refuted Marx

Marx but only up to German Ideology. Nietzsche is a dumb wildcunt

>>15927614
You should read Kant, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Wagner, and Jung and ignore Marx and Hegel and """critical theory""" altogether.

>>15927627
>>15927614
>>15927639
Based anti-intellectual americans

>>15927666
>read wagner
>not listen to wagner

Zarathustra is the only worthwhile Nietzsche. Change my mind.

>>15927682
reading marx is about as intellectual as reading scientology pamphlets

>>15927610
No point in reading Marx unless you're interested in economic theory. If you want philosophy, read Richard Wagner's The Artwork of the Future and On State and Religion, and then read Nietzsche's The Greek State, which he wrote after reading those two by Wagner. This was where Nietzsche and Wagner first disagreed philosophically and it's more relevant to your interests I think.

>>15927610
Only read secondary sources on both

>>15927682
Based retarded faggot

>>15927689
Of course you should listen to Wagner and also watch Wagner, but he is philosophically also the connecting link between Schopenhauer and Nietzsche and Jung.

>>15927610
Marx has salient critiques of capital, but his solutions and autistic ramblings are a chore. It's better than read other people's summaries of his points than his actual writing. Nietzsche isn't entry level reading like Marx. It requires some knowledge of his contemporaries and their writings otherwise you're just ready edgy bullshit without understanding his philosophy. Neither is very good though. Read Debord and Baudrillard instead

OP here. So so far I should not read nietszche and I should read nietszche, I should read all of Nietzsche or only Zarathustra. I should not read marx and I should read marx. I should not read marx but only secondary sources. I should not read them if I havent read hegel and I should not read hegel.
I should read wagner and listen to him and watch him aswell, I should skip them alltogether and read debord and baudrillard instead.

Goddamnit I cant know who of you are right

>>15927682
based retard nigger

>>15927819
Welcome to philosophy (although I'd still argue you should listen to what I said).

>>15927819
this is why you only read fiction, pick up some Joyce instead and you'll end up much happier

>>15927795
>Read Debord and Baudrillard instead
they offer no solutions, they just blackpill you on capital

>>15927827
Why would you read for solutions? Stop being smol brained. Read for perspectives

>>15927744
t. hasn't read marx

>>15927839
capital is like a fucking monster that i see everywhere
fuck you i am suffocating under all this noise and i need solutions to escape this shitshow of doom

>>15927610
the holy Bible you heathen

>>15927852
have you tried not being a retarded tranny?

>>15927884
Ah, yes. The tranny boogewoman.

>>15927884
i am a muslim but capital is commodifying my scared religion for their stupid fucking commercials and greedy gains of profit

>>15927905
being an unironic marxist is a dead giveaway

Marx first, then you might not feel like bothering with kneetchi

>>15927916
*sacred

>>15927682
I am not a h*mburger

>>15927747
Not OP but recommended secondary sources on marx?

>>15928142
Don't read secondary sources on Marx, they're universally terrible. Just read Marx.

>>15928167
But Marx is universally terrible.

>>15928180
Have you read Marx?

>>15928199
Yes, I got memed into it years ago, and it was a complete waste of time. A far better use of said time would have been skipping straight to any of the dozens of works on how he was wrong about everything.

>>15928254
>how he was wrong about everything.
explain

>>15928268
Here, I saved you hours of your life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Marxism

>>15927645
Correct answer. Read Marx and the Nietzsche, OP.

>>15928273
a literal retard can give links and point at books
you are on /lit/ so put a little bit effort into your post and explain his contradictions in your own words

>>15928283
Why? It's already been done to death.

>>15927819
Stop posting anime and just consciously read literally anything, as long as you are paying attention to what you are doing you shouldn't have any trouble. The truth is, the only right way to go about it is actually the act of going about it in itself, at least for now.

>>15927619
Jordan Peterson vids are enough to know what is to know about Marxism. If you really want to put the hard work, read communist manifesto.

>>15928273
neck yourself

>>15927610
Adolescence is idolozing Nietzsche and hating Marx without reading him because of propaganda.

Adulthood is reading Marx and realizing he was right and having some contentions with Nietzsche as you outgrow him.

>>15928501
Peterson knows diddly squat about Marx, nearing the point of stunning dishonesty and misrepresentation imo

>>15928501
bait

>>15928501
>communist manifesto
>hard work
anon, it's a short pamphlet written for uneducated 19th century industrial workers

>>15928550
>>15928569
it's obvious bait

>>15927819
You should read both. If you not familiar with key concepts of Marxism you can start with Principles of Communism by Engels. After that you can move to economics. You can start with Adam Smith then 1844 Manuscripts, Wage Labour and Capital and finally Capital vol I. If you are more interested in Marxist philosophy you can read German Ideology. If you are more interested in political theory you can read State and Revolution by Lenin. If you read only one book from Marx that should be Capital vol I.
I am not too familiar with the works of Nietzsche so I am unable to give you a recommendation. If you can try to avoid secondary literature before you read the primary.

>>15928592
For the economics William Thompson is a great bridge between Smith and Marx, who Marx draws alot from. This goes beyond OPs brief but I like plugging owenites

>>15928341
okay retard

>>15927614
This. Marxism is just a cargo cult.
He didn't actually understand the first thing about industry or economics, but declared himself an expert on both despite not being involved with either, and had incredibly warped views on both by viewing them from afar.
It's not surprising everything based on his ideas has been a horrible failure.

>>15928677
>and had incredibly warped views on both by viewing them from afar
such as?

>>15928142
Kołalowski

>>15927722
Its only worthwhile because of the rest of his oeuvre

>>15927620
this
but only read Hegel once you've read Kant
and only read Kant once you've read Hume
and only read Hume once you've read Locke
and only read Locke once you've read Descartes
and only read Descartes once you've read Aquinas
and only read Aquinas once you've read Aristotle
and only read Aristotle once you've read Plato
and only read Plato once you've read the presocratics
this is why you start with the greeks.

>>15929710
based

>>15929832
nah just start with kant fuck all that gay shit before

>>15927819
Congratulations, you've passed your first lesson in Hegelianism

>>15929879
Hegel (PBUH) is not the anti-christ and this image is slander

>>15927819
Probs don't read Zarathustra without his other works. Unless you are exceptionally wicked smart you will get very little out of it. I tried to read it first and never felt like such a brainlet.

But don't listen to anyone anon, just read what interests you, that's the only honest path.