/lit/ - Literature

>>15926566
>How could any Christian disagree with the doctrine of predestination?
Because it might not be real? What kind of question is this

God knows the future because it's already his past. Dumb fucking midwit philosophically illiterate cunts

>>15926566
>he thinks that God knowing the choice one will make of their own free will is the same as God making the choice for you

Because God is not a psychopath who sends people to hell for behaving in the way he ordered them to behave.

We exist in the third dimension (within time), hence our reality is governed by free will. God exists in the fourth dimension (beyond time) hence we are governed by predestination only in His eyes. There is no objective proof for which of the two realities is transcendentally "realer" , except that "our reality is by definition circumscribed within our reality" and therefore the reality that we are governed by free will is as real as the reality that we are humans. This is the rule of the game

One's choices are pre-determined in so far as they have already been made before God, yet they are nevertheless free choices. The future is set, but *your* future is as yet unwritten, to you. At any moment, you freely choose your fate, but those choices already are.

>>15926663
This

>mistaking predeterminism for predestination

>>15926723
>before God
>At any moment, you freely choose your fate, but those choices already are.
Holy fuck, the level of mental gymnastics amd outright heresy that christians must pull off in order to defend their religion is astounding.
Christian metaphysics will never not be contradictory, because in itself is the unfortunate combination of two opposite ideas: the all-knowing all-powerful and judgemental god of the semites and the demiurge of the platonists that only acts as a prime mover for the world.

>>15926838
>picks on the phrasing of the weakest answer
>does not reply to >>15926741 or >>15926663
>goes on to assert kike on a stick tier unsubstantiated conjecture about christianity

If God is infinite, then God would understand infinite future possibilities. Fate isn't linear. God knows the infinite possible choices I could make, but didn't command me to make any of them.

>>15926883
That’s a fascinating answer

>>15926870
>>15926741 says nothing of value and >>15926663 makes the same argument as the one I criticised
>goes on to assert kike on a stick tier unsubstantiated conjecture about christianity
Ah, yes, i forgot the original jews were not semites, but blue eyes blonde haired horse riders. Go back to /pol/ and spare us your idiocy.

>>15926650
Libertarian free will and determinism are inconsistent. Unless you are an open theist you should believe in predestination.

>>15926663
If you believe that you believe some form of determinism.

>>15926679
what if hell is a lie?

>>15926663
Maras are so beautifully strange. The first time I saw one I was in awe.

>>15926883
he would know which one you would choose. he created you knowing you would chose that, hence you were made to choose that and it was predetermined by him.

>>15926838
>demiurge of platonists acts only as prime mover
have you read timaeus?

>all-knowing, all-powerful, judgemental
Ok but where is all-choosing?

Also
>taking sense perceptions as analogy to the numinous literally

>>15926566
I forgot where I read it but refuting predestination does nothing to address the problem of salvation. Predestination isn't some draconian indictment of mankind nor intended to make people pessimistic about salvation and evangelising. Rather, it rest all authority upon God.

>>15926663
>believing you are the doer

>>15926941
Determinism is not equal to omniscience.