/lit/ - Literature

>>15894751
Decide to do something you know to be mildly wrong and then go lalalalala and do it.

>>15894751
good way to be btfo'd by reality.
facts don't care about your feelings.

>>15894751
It's amazing how much Nietzsche ripped from Carlyle.

>>15894758
Based
>>15894766
Actually read the quote before spewing retarded Ben shapiro shit

>>15894751
That quote pretty much explains this image

>>15894751
bump

>>15894751
Steve Jobs paraphrased that saying something like "It's ok to make mistakes sometimes because that means you at least made a decision"

>>15894766
>he thinks people actually know facts
everyone laugh at this retard

>>15894776
nietzsche hated carlyle
t. actually read nietzsche

>>15894751

He is right tho, one of the biggest struggles in my life has been indecisiveness, and changing my mind when exposed to better alternatives. It is worthless, time is limited.

Grab something, stick to it, see what you learnni a couple years down the line.

>>15895179
I'm going to start practicing it. The happiest ,oments of my life was when I stopped overthinking and did some retarded shit. It usually always yielded positive results

>>15895165
no he didn't

>>15895596
Yes he did

>>15895596
Yeah, I wouldn't say hate. Hate is a strong word. He criticized Carlyle though and called him naive and his historicity a load of crock.

>>15894751
Anyone notice how this perfecetly describes don quixote?

>>15895892
Because it draws from the hero archetype

>>15895163
yes anon, that's why we build bridges made of anything instead of following rigidly set guidelines provided to us by previous experience, cause facts don'te xist and as such, infact, there is no experience

btw im a hardcore humanist anti scientist

>>15896011
>btw im a hardcore humanist anti scientist
Kys

>>15896648
Bump

>>15896011
>"facts" and mathematical principles are the same
The IQ of this board is in freefall

>>15898290
Kek

>>15894751
based. intuition and willpower is chad tier. indecisiveness and "rationality" is for virgins.

>>15894766
My feelings don't care about your facts

>>15894751
my greatest tools in life have been my thick skull and my ability to flip coins
people who listen to high school career advisors and their parents end up working at supermarkets for ten years

>>15894766
Your so-called "facts" are just your feelings masked with dialectics to not seem as such. This is precisely why Nietzsche called Socrates a decadent. The whole enterprise of dialectics is a form of decadence. Healthy instincts are whole in themselves and don't need dialectics to defend themselves. Only decadent instincts rely on dialectics to feel any increase of power.

>>15901524
This.
I listened to my parents and regret it.

>>15899401
The current West is characterized by a perpetual uncertainty.

>>15901502
BASED

>>15899401
Based. a priori over empiricism any day. Taleb is right, your grandmother knows more about decision making than your professor does

>>15901538
Did Taleb read Nietzsche?

>>15899401
>insticts
>perfected

>>15894751
no. western stupid faggots must die.

>>15901538
>just jump off a building and fly the fact that you're can't fly is actually a feeling so just jump
god what a retard, thanks for sparing me reading nietzsche lmao

>>15902357
perfected to the point of survival of the species. science is literally on the brink of annihilating the world.

>>15894751

Clausewitz says something a bit like this in The Art Of War. He says that the biggest problem in an army in battle is that the General (who whoever is in charge) often finds it really hard to simply make a decision, because he never has complete information, and the various pieces of information / advice he receives always contradict one another. Also, he's extremely worried about making the wrong decision because it will mean his soldiers actually dying. He often gets paralyzed and does nothing, or the wrong thing, because it feels safer.

Plus there's a huge amount of inertia in any big organization. You notice this in a large corporation or government department, in civilian life, in peacetime. It's hard to get anything done because people are basically lazy, and look for reasons to delay things or pass the buck. And of course in an army in war this is magnified a thousandfold because people want to avoid fighting because it's dangerous!

Therefore (Clausewitz says) most mistakes in war are mistakes of delay or timidity, when swift, decisive action is vital. So the single most important quality in a commanding office is DECISIVENESS, even if that translates to pig-headedness. You really need a guy who will just decide what he wants done and go for it, and ignore all the people saying "hmmm maybe that's a bad idea because....".

And the really great Generals are people who have this quality but are also have such a great instinct for the big picture that most of their decisions are right, even with almost no information (or wrong information) to go on.

>>15902379
>science is literally on the brink of annihilating the world.
blame shifters jews have convinced you of this

>>15902375
nietzsche didn’t intend autists like yourself to read him

>>15902384
no, Ted convinced me of it. jews can fuck themselves

>>15902385
>cant counter argument I'll call him an autistic retard
yikes reading nietzsche has turn you into a little bitch

>>15902391
you literally strawmanned nietzsche to begin with, you’re autistic and it painfully shows

>>15902396
no you did that faggot, nietzsche probably meant to say making a decision and sticking to it is a sign of strong character do it and be prepared to deal with the probable consequences of your stubbornness and stupidity because, a strong idiot is better than a insecure smartass
He didn't meant to say facts are actually feelings like you said you stupid tranny peace of shit, i didn't strawmanned nietzsche but your retarded analogy

>>15902424
shut up jew

>>15902375
I love 4chan so much

>>15902380
>the biggest problem in an army in battle is that the General (who whoever is in charge) often finds it really hard to simply make a decision, because he never has complete information, and the various pieces of information / advice he receives always contradict one another.
Wasnt this in War and Peace?

>>15902424
Based

>>15901538
You're really fucking dumb, I doubt you've read Nietzsche.

>>15902438

Dunno, I haven't read W&P. But it could well be. W&P was published in 1867. On War was published in 1832 and was largely based on Napoleon. Tolstoy might well have come across it. But he might have come across the idea elsewhere obviously.

>>15902424
>a strong idiot is better than a insecure smartass
Arent there enough idiots right now?

>>15902473
no, we have enough redditors and rick and morty watchers

>>15894766
>quotes ben shapiro at Nietzsche

>>15902522
isnt it the same?

>>15902375

>just jump off a building

Oh you mean something your instincts would naturally tell you not to do?
You are just proving Nietzsche even more right

>>15902540
this

>>15902452
cope

>>15895165
And? It doesn't actually refute the anons point.

t. actually read Carlyle

>>15902540
for someone thay advocate for nietzsche, you're making him sound like an hedonistic little bitch, what are you gonna say the ubermensch is the Dorian Gray faggot? , retard

>>15894776
Based Carlyle anon.

>>15902946

Instinct and impulse are not the same thing
In fact if you live a more instinctual life it will actually be easier for you to avoid falling into hedonism assuming your instincts are working properly
An animal may become very impulsive when presented with delicious food but at the end of the day it's instinct is what will keep it on track and enable it to live a prolonged and healthy life

>>15902972
>Instinct and impulse are not the same thing
stopped reading right there, applying mental gymnastics to something doesn't make it real, retard

>>15902988

lol what mental gymnastics that two different words have two different meanings?
Well alright if you say so

>>15903000
you wouldn't understand it im to advanced for you, you should read the greeks if you haven't and again if you have

>>15902375
You just used an example of dialectics to argue your case against someone rejecting dialectics you fucking retard. In what world would healthy instincts just jump off a building and pretend it is flying based on feeling? This isn't fucking Toy Story, imbecile.

>>15903020
>You just used an example of dialectics to argue your case against someone rejecting dialectics you fucking retard.
well isn't that ironic my retard friend

>>15903029
It's not ironic, it's predictable of someone with weak instincts to make such a major mistake in their argument.

>>15894751
Reminder that Nietzcheposters are mentally retarded and have no business talking philosophy

>>15903050
kek i haven't read nietzsche but they way poster's here talk makes me think that nietzsche was either writing pure retard shit or nobody that posted here truly understood him

>>15903076
>i haven't read nietzsche
We know.

>>15899401
I seem to have contracted brain retardation, whose the guy on Nietzsche's left?

>>15903104
jung

>>15903086
I did tho

>>15894751

>>15902375

>>15899401
But it was rationality that caused humanity to flourish, not instinct?

>>15902380
William James has a similar position and even uses the same metaphor. Fear of being wrong is foolish, because being wrong provides data as to the correct answer, it characterizes the problem space. Being wrong in the short term can inform the long term approximation of the truth if you keep the right perspective.

You, on the other hand, may think that the risk of being in error is a very small matter when compared with the blessings of real knowledge, and be ready to be duped many times in your investigation rather than postpone indefinitely the chance of guessing true.... It's like a general informing his soldiers that it is better to keep out of battle forever than to risk a single wound. Not so are victories either over enemies or over nature gained. Our errors are surely not such awfully solemn things. In a world where we are so certain to incur them in spite of all our caution, a certain lightness of heart seems healthier than this excessive nervousness on their behalf. At any rate it seems the fittest thing for the empiricist philosopher."

This statement was made moments before Nietzsche realized he his stupid as fuck

>>15904082
According to Nietzsche, that is a misunderstanding stemming from Socrates. The original, non-degenerate Greek nobility emerged triumphantly in history because of their strong instincts.

There are two kinds of philosophy for Nietzsche: healthy philosophy, which is exclusive to the Pre-Socratics, and degenerate philosophy, which is Socrates and everyone after him (including Nietzsche). A healthy philosophy stems from a healthy culture, which needs healthy instincts. Philosophy can't repair degenerate instincts, and this was what Socrates misunderstood. While he properly diagnosed the problem — that he and his fellow Greeks had degenerated — his solution, rationality, only exacerbated the problem. He mistakenly thought the Greeks could fight their degeneracy with philosophy.

>>15904101
There are of course one-shot decisions the risk profile of which eliminates this trial and error empirical approach. A surgeon or bomb squad technician can't just say "I'll go with my gut and snip this wire and see what happens." Certain decisions do not permit being wrong, and indeed, most of the most significant choices in life fit just this description. These also happen to be situations in which the paradigm of perfect rationality--evaluating and having access to all the data, knowing each outcome given each condition and weighing them appropriately--is impractical.

>>15904101

Yeah, I wonder if someone at Google read William James. They made it a big, explicit part of their corporate philosophy that Failure Is OK, and it's Good To Fail Fast. They don't want people terrified of looking silly and inching forward like a man on a narrow bridge. They want people to run ahead and discover the right path by discovering the wrong ones.

I guess many people have had that idea. Like the famous Edison quote: "I have't wasted my time, I've just found 1000 ways that don't work".

>>15904154
>healthy philosophy, which is exclusive to the Pre-Socratics
Bullshit. Parmenides and the rest of the Eleatics had a very counter-intuitive philosophy, rejecting the concepts of physical entities, motion, causality, nothingness, and sense-experience itself. Next time, do some research so that you don't embarrass yourself.

how how how

>>15904211
Nietzsche was a philologist and understood the Greeks better than anyone.

>>15904211
>Parmenides and the rest of the Eleatics had a very counter-intuitive philosophy, rejecting the concepts of physical entities, motion, causality, nothingness, and sense-experience itself.
This isn't an objection to Nietzsche's categorization of healthy vs. degenerate philosophy. Their philosophy stemmed from healthy instincts, while everything Socrates and afterwards didn't.

>Next time, do some research so that you don't embarrass yourself.
I explicitly stated that what I was talking about there was from Nietzsche, so what are you talking about?

>>15904047
The Uberhoser.

>>15904245
>appeal to authority
>>15904255
>Their philosophy stemmed from healthy instincts
Are you kidding me? The rejection of sense-experience is the complete antithesis of healthy instinct.

>>15896648
The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

>>15904271
>The rejection of sense-experience is the complete antithesis of healthy instinct.
Parmenides' "rejection" was not a rejection like what came from Socrates and after. He did not arrive at his conclusions through degenerate instincts.

>>15899401
>muh genes

>>15904329
What separates healthy instincts from degenerate instincts?

>>15904369
Healthy instincts are identified from their associated increased feeling of power, while degenerate instincts are identified from their associated feeling of weakness.

>>15902452
His first two sentences are bogus. The rest is in his will to power

>>15904383
Why is an increased feeling of power a good thing?

>>15904404
It is not a good thing to the degenerate, who suffers life, and consequently does not see how the increased feeling of power, which is at bottom the increased feeling of life, is good. But to healthy instincts, which are in a state of growth, life is felt as growth, therefore growth (power) is good.

>>15904466
If that's the case, why should I be healthy instead of degenerate?

>>15904517
I'm not certain whether Nietzsche thought it as a personal choice for the self or not. He seems to suggest that we don't have a choice in the matter for ourselves, and that instead, what we can choose is how future generations will turn out. This is what I gathered from his assessment of Socrates, who he said was his opposite, because while they were both degenerates, Nietzsche's philosophy was built from a healthy foundation, and so he was able to prevent the perpetuation of his own degeneracy in his philosophy. But I may be wrong, as I'm not done with my reading of him.

If you're looking for an inherent value to health, then there isn't one. Inherent values stem from a degenerate outlook. Life does not have inherent values, only the values that perspectives imbue it with.

>>15904517
You don't get to choose. If you are a degenerate those who aspire to control will see so that you are dealt with, either by becoming accounted for or outright killed

>>15904574
>>15904579
If Nietzsche offers no reason for one being better or worse than the other, then the distinction is completely impotent as a criticism.

>>15904579
most men follow on the first. That's what the levelling of men is. The process of instrmentalizing a great majority by playing their gregarious instinct, for nietzsche our democratic tendencies are this gregarious instinct at work. And so by being democratic we are making ourselves tame and controllable. He called the european men who would emerge from democratic europe, the asianof the future and the perfect socialist. Quite fitting that we call them bugmen today

>>15904610
Nietzsche is not a self help book. He's analyzing the phenomenon of moralization. He distinguishes morality by which type of men embodies it.

>>15904610
Well, it's not a criticism.

>>15904630
>>15904631
If it's not a criticism, the poster I was originally replying to shouldn't have posed it as such.

>>15904649
it's an analysis. And a reframing of morality. Nietzsche tried to actually criticize by showing from where such tendencies stem from. By showing they are products of weaker intelects and constitutions. He's criteria is that the degree of power a thing demonstrates is it's worth. For him the world is will to power.

>>15904649
I posted it in response to >>15904082 to elaborate Nietzsche's interpretation on the matter, which differed from the poster's. For Nietzsche, health is synonymous with growth which is synonymous with the increase of power, so healthy instincts would be those associated with the increased feeling of power. Nietzsche's philosophy, similarly to the Pre-Socratics, is more of a "take it or leave it" philosophy. If you're looking to be persuaded by dialectic, you're not going to find it in them or in him. It's either something you also interpret to be the case or not.

>>15904162
It's just an adoption of scientific process into business practice. Scientific process in turn is just a formalization of how people intuitively learn and interact with a world of which they have an incomplete knowledge.
It's cute when you see this in a business setting, CEOs and other leaders present the culmination of years of strenuous and messy work as if the solution just popped into their heads fully formed out of the void like a Boltzmann brain. Their whole purpose is to present it as such. They cooly and calmly present results as if they were won without much fuss, because that feeds into the whole cult of persona surrounding these tech companies. That they are staffed to the brim with geniuses who effortless perceive and solve the world's problems in instant snapshots of brilliance.
The empirical reality of working out a problem, especially in software development, is much grittier. In fact so much progress is made not in advancing a solution but but negating a non-solution (debugging). Rarely is everything pristinely mathematized and deductively grasped in a clean and perfect flash that is then simply acted on and implemented.

>>15902972
>An animal may become very impulsive when presented with delicious food but at the end of the day it's instinct is what will keep it on track and enable it to live a prolonged and healthy life
This has been demonstrated false repeatedly by experiment. Rats will opt for meth over food until they are dead, as an example. The reward pathways are rigged to favor life-preserving behavior without regard for excess, because evolutionarily we were not subject to excess but very rarely

Humans have created an environment where resources are abundant beyond the means of our underlying biological nature, especially those which trigger a dopamine response. We've quite literally evolved past our programming, so to hail the programming over all is quite a folly

>>15904680
>>15904682
I fail to see how there's strength in certainty.

>>15894751
Retardation in its most virulent form.

>>15902526
nietzsche was a faggot larper loser who couldn't actually think. it doesn't matter how many charlatan humanities academics circlejerk about him. You're a faggot and a cocksucker and you can't actually think.

>>15904898
>larper
Larping as what? Do you dumb shits read anything? Nietzsche never claimed anything for himself in his philosophy. He is one of the most lucid thinkers throughout the entirety of the philosophical tradition.

>>15894751
>How do I cultivate my will to stupidity?
Shitpost more
You are already the stupidest fucker on the stupidest congregation of stupid fucking retards the world has ever witnessed

>>15904914
This