/lit/ - Literature

.70*$3*100000 = $210,000/month

What the fuck

Proof any idiot can make money writing. Get those post-apocalyptic dystopia stories going, /lit/. You can be published too.

She looks like a typical poster on this board

Good for her

>Seventeen-year-old Alice Bonham's life feels out of control after she meets Jack. With his fondness for pink Chuck Taylors and New Wave hits aside, Jack's unlike anyone she's ever met.

>Then she meets his brother, Peter. His eyes pierce through her, and she can barely breathe when he's around. Even though he can't stand the sight of her, she's drawn to him.

>This is a young adult paranormal romance with mild language and mild sexual situations recommended for readers in grade 9 and up

>But falling for two very different guys isn't even the worst of her problems. Jack and Peter are vampires, and Alice finds herself caught between love and her own blood...

wtf is this shit

twilight redux?

BUT I'M TOO BUSY POSTING REALLY IMPORTANT COMMENTS ON 4CHAN TO WRITE MY NOVEL

>>1588810
Why would you say that?

That's it. Literature's over. Everyone out.

>>1588806
Oh god.
This is a perfect example of what sells to today's most prevalent demographic.

>>1588813
just going by
>>1588806

seems like young teenage girl masturbatory pop fiction set in 'exotic' circumstances.

Is Sean Wunjo the male equivalent of Amanda Hocking?

She has written nine books. How many have you written?

>>1588821
b-but you didn't read it! No one here could have possibly read it!

Actually! No really!
It's... the best fucking goddamn book of this generation. Subtle, effortless and moving romance with a gentle sub-optimal parody of the entire universe of existential pain.

God
Fucking
Dammit

I think I might just quit

>>1588825

> There are, at this moment, no Shawn Wunjo books available for purchase anywhere online (Except maybe used.)

> So what does being banned 10+ times tell me?

> 1.) That I'm awesome.

> 2.) That I need to find somewhere (or some way) less ban-happy to get my current (and future) books to the people.

>>1588825
Hocking titles:
My Blood Approves
Hollowland

Wunjo titles:
The Vagina Ass of Lucifer Niggerbastard
Robocunt and the Rug Niggers of Afrofaggotstan

Yep, comparison seems legit to me.

>>1588829
Shawn I love you with all my heart. Your writing deserves 10x the money Hocking gets.

What she did: Wrote nine volumes of genre fiction in a high-demand genre and got them directly into reader's hands via the means freely available to anybody.

What you've been doing: Thinking about maybe working up the courage to write one really great postmodern epic novel which you will then spend years revising and submitting to major publishers and agents until they give you the validation and meager first-novel advance that you feel you need while banking on the chance that it will somehow both be a literary classic and commercial success, allowing you to justify all time you spent brainstorming and telling people that you were writing and all the money spent buying pens and Important Novels for inspiration.

>>1588839
painfully real talk

TIME TO START WRITING MOTHERFUCKERS

>>1588839
Whatever man. I buy lots of pens because they inspire me to write well.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22391685/My-Blood-Approves-by-Amanda-Hocking

I'll just leave this right here. (Because LIKE HELL am I ever going to voluntarily go to Scrib'd.)

>>1588839
Yesh

>>1588846
Begins with an ee cummings poem. Not sure how to feel about that.

>>1588839
you're projecting, bro

>>1588846
>-1-
>The goose bumps were standing all over her bare flesh and she stomped her foot, at least partially because of the cold. Jane would claim it was wholly because of her frustration over the length of the line and continue insisting that chain smoking cigarettes kept her warm. The law stated that people had to be at least twenty feet from the door of an establishment to smoke, and fortunately, we were much farther than that.

I'm in. Who's with me?

>>1588853
That's it. Publishing is free on Kindle.

Those of you who are aspiring writers. Fucking do it. Now is the time ladies and gentlemen of /lit/. If that shit gets sold, your work can too.

>>1588853
You can't pretend anything posted on /lit/ is more adeptly written, can you?

It might not be good, but the stuff we get is worse.

>>1588853

I'll do the polite thing and withhold judgment until I have evidence that her writing has not improved in nine books. I'm getting the sensation I had when I read Twilight (and not the drunken state that lead to my reading Twilight). Namely, the recognition that the thing that differentiates me from Hocking is that she was able to publish something that I consider shit. I envy that, because by definition, I am unable to do that. Even when I observe readily that I can write better shit than her shit, I still think it's shit.

>>1588839

FUCK YOU THESE ARE NICE PENS

My book goes up on Kindle next week. My 2nd book should go up next month.
I can only hope mine goes as good as hers.

>>1588853

> Goose bumps were standing over her bare flesh and she stomped her foot against the cold. Jane would claim it was because of her frustration at the length of the queue and that it was the cigarettes she was chain-smoking that kept her warm. The oh my god I can't read this without revising it in my head.

>>1588853


It's just so boring and see-through. Stopped at page 11. I don't read books in order to remind myself why I think the ordinary babble of real life is dull. Obviously most of /lit/ won't enjoy this.

As for the teen demographic who do - they'll grow out of it, and it'll remain simply a guilty pleasure, something childlike and silly that you enjoyed once upon, when your honest naivety wasn't so spoiled by fanatic realism. It's nearly meritless, but I don't think we're in any position to deem it unworthy of attention.

I've been re-watching Dragon Ball lately C-:

Is there any popular genre that isn't "vampires sparkle, teenage girl ends up in a male dominated relationship"?

This is getting boring

GUYS

GUYS

HOLY SHIT

I'VE GOT IT

I'M GOING TO WRITE ABOUT TEENAGE VAMPIRES...

BUT

I'M GOING TO PUT THEM IN THE OLD WEST!

/BRB GETTIN' RICH

>>1588874
>As for the teen demographic who do - they'll grow out of it, and it'll remain simply a guilty pleasure, something childlike and silly that you enjoyed once upon

What the fuck matters if her books exploded and ceased to exist in a couple of years? She would already be rich forever a that point.

Damn, I wish I weren't so insane and isolated from my own emotions. I'm sure I would be able to write some stupid stuff appealing to the teenage demographic.

Here goes my two cents:

In popular fiction people don't write books any more. They write movies, and they do so either completely unaware or (worse?) knowing exactly what they are doing.

But this isn't a surprise, because most of us don't really know how to read any more (humbly, I include myself in this unfourtunate group as well).

Plot is king now, and I am yet to see a contemporary one that doesn't tyrannically race over me. Everything else, apparently, doesn't sell as well?

>>1588891

>What the fuck matters if she would already be rich forever at that point?

>>1588891
But you see, that's the weird thing here.

Almost everyone here thinks they can, myself included. But, just because you write some shitty vampire romance doesn't mean that it will sell right? It's not like, any idiot with an eight grade education can just pump out a book and make 200k + a month right?

I wouldn't be suprised if hundreds if not thousands of writers did the same thing and it barely sold. Even her shit probably didn't sell well at first either.

This is all entirely theory though, but obviously the only way to find out would be to publish. Either way, you get to know you gave it a shot, and this requires little effort and almost no money in comparison to trying to get published and living in obscurity for years.

>>1588889
fund it!

>>1588892
Then you rev up those xanatos gambits and enjoy your cushy lifestyle.
Then when people ask you what you do, you can say you are a writer and they will think you are smart.

>>1588899
It's not just about being relevant in terms of topic (vampires)

I believe it was The Hunger Games that constantly refers to popular culture.
And perks of Being a Wallflower contained hipster essential lists for books and music.
You must be in tune to the youth; not just the youth market.

>>1588889

Westerns tanked in the 80s. You need crossover with something more recent, like...steampunk.

>>1588896
I don't mind if she stays rich, I want to be rich also. I'm sure there's space for two (well, three) in this teenage vampire El Dorado. And I'm going to start right now [brackets for tentative details]:

>[Sylvia] was a regular nobody, or so her friends in the school of [vampires/werewolves/normal people] thought. But her lonely 16 year old heart had been kissed by the cruel lips of despair and something else equally sad and compassion inducing. Sylvia was pale [fat] and had long black [white?] hair which she used to hide her big shy eyes from the world. And she was in love [fat].

Well, that's not that bad. Do you guys think I should start preparing the photo for the back cover?

>>1588901

What do you mean?

>>1588904
Westerns are on their way back. Red Dead Redemption (the video game) is a good example. There will be more. Deadwood (the tv series) will probably see increased interest soon.

Will my books sell better than hers?
>Holographic video game tournament
>Zombie Apocalypse
>Man fails and successes in life through invention and crime
>Space civil war
>Comedy about superheros
>Princess turned into a cat
>Man's idea for a government abortion program

Probably not because I suck and try to write about a variety of things in hopes I will create something original.

What a way to cash out one's dignity.

PROTIP: Her sales come from the fact that the shlocky genre fiction that dominates the Kindle charts is read by people (almost entirely women of various ages, not just teens) who read pretty much constantly and don't really care to expand their horizions. They read like people watch TV.

If you just wrote one book you'd never get sales like hers--you have to write tons and get people to keep buying.

Apparently in order to receive 70% of the price of the book, you need to be the copyright holder on your book. How dos one do this?

A lot of money would be on the line...

>>1588942
Did she copyrighted the books since the first one?

>>1588936
send your best one to bobicmon@gmail.com
i've got an eye for the market

i'll try not to get my hopes up

>>1588949

I think so, since one link,

http://ezinearticles.com/?Struggling-To-Sell-Your-Books?-Learn-How-To-Publish-On-Kindle&id=59130
18

Says that in order to get 70% of the cost, you need to be the copyright holder of ze story.

>>1588936

> Will my books sell better than hers?

No.

>Holographic video game tournament

Protagonist must be a Girl Gamer.

>Zombie Apocalypse

Protagonist must be a girl who Solves A Mystery.

>Man fails and successes in life through invention and crime

Man must be ubermench secret agent lawyer millionaire in addition to whatever else he does.

>Space civil war

Only if it's about catpeople and dogpeople or somehow manages to be about space vampires vs space werewolves. Female protagonist.

>Comedy about superheros

They have to be teens and the humor and drama must come primarily from slice-of-life scenarios.

>Princess turned into a cat

She must thereby be able to have adventures and peril that her parents forbid her from having.

>Man's idea for a government abortion program

Man must be godless athiest vs. plucky girl christian protagonist. OR man must be secretly a vampire vs. plucky girl werewolf protagonist.

>>1588951
There are 433 people with the name William Daly in the United States

>>1588942

In the US at least you don't have to do anything. If you wrote it, you are the copyright holder. If you've signed a contract with a publisher, that contract usually assigns them the rights for a number of years (after which it reverts to you.)

All it means is that you can't take someone else's work and publish it and you can't publish a book yourself that you've already signed away to a publisher.

>>1588955
At first I laughed, then realized, while degrading, would make them sell better.

>>1588963
Something about ISBN's too
I wouldn't stick anything on kindle unless you've talked with a copyright lawyer at the least. ISBN's are like 20 bucks if I remember right.

>>1588942
It just means you have to be the one who wrote it.
If you did not write it someone else would sue you for copyright infringement and take the money (because it is theirs )

>>1588971
>>1588968
>>1588963

Thanks bros!

This would be an excellent way to make university money.

>>1588968
Paid $10 for my ISBN

This makes me more excited than ever to be a writer. I realize such success is very unlikely, but looking at the link you can see that e-books and Amazon have really opened the market up in a big way. Publishers aren't gate-keepers anymore. Readers decide what's worth reading. Literary agents can no longer set the tone and style of a nation's literature. Writers and readers get to do that now.

Don't be disheartened just because the woman in OP's example writes about stupid things. All it means is that, finally, authors are free to write what they, how they want, and when they want, and sell books as simply as uploading a PDF. This is a good thing. We should welcome it.

>>1589052
While some or maybe even all of that may be true, try to keep in mind the immeasurable pile of shit this will also produce. As you said, selling books is as simple as uploading a PDF, which means that any idiot who's halfway competent with a computer can write two hundred pages' worth of complete drivel and then sell it to the world.

Sure, it's a good thing for aspiring writers, but at the same time it's a horrible thing for the poor people unfortunate enough to stumble across these poorly made works of trash. I'm not going to lie that this kind of news makes me feel pretty motivated, but I just can't help be pessimistic about these kinds of things.

>>1589052
It's a bad thing actually.

More people writing books more influence being spread out.

More herp derp in the world.

Fucking great.

>>1589061
That's a gatekeeper-ish attitude, almost like you want to hold back literature by saying what should and shouldn't be published.

Many of the books published today are shit. E-books won't change that. Reviews will still work the same way, recommendations from friends will still work the same way, previews will still work the same way. Everything you use to pick a good book today you can use tomorrow when the self-published e-book revolution comes.

Many of the books we consider classics today were self-published by their authors in the first run. This is a similar deal.

Be happy, writers!

>>1589068
Have you seen the internet? Most of that's shit too. Should there be an organization that keeps the stupid shit off the web? Should there be publishers that determine whether an article, a 4chan post, a Youtube comment, a blog entry, or whatever goes live?

So what if she wrote a bunch of shitty books and got a lot of money from it?

She hasn't left a literary mark on the world. No ones written a biography on her.

No one is going to remember her when she dies...

>>1589068
pretty much this

more accessible = more bullshitters

the publishing industry is entering what happened to the music industry with the advent of audio file pirating

while literary agents, publishers etc., may be capitalist shitheads blah blah blah they serve as a useful buffer to prevent the justin beiber wannabes from spamming stores with their createspace.com-stephenie-meyer-fanfic monstrosities.

the fact that this chick pretty much got rich off hawking her twilight regurgitation on a legit marketplace like the kindle store just makes it that much harder for published novelists to be taken seriously

I guess I'm going to have to start reading critics unless I want to trudge through piles of this bullshit

>>1589074
>Justin Bieber wannabes
>Stephenie Meyer fanfic monstrosities
And who was responsible for Justin Bieber and Stephenie Meyer?

Publishers (music and book) took these no-talent assclowns and turned their work into huge money-making fads by pumping endless amounts of money into publicity and marketing. They took a bucketful of turds and polished, presenting the public with shiny gems.

That's the publishers' fault. Without them "paranormal romance" would never have taken over half of your favorite bookstore.

There are plenty of people (most of /lit/, most of the people who whine about how bad Twilight is) looking for something good to read. Traditional publishers aren't serving that market. Self-publishing can fill the gap.

>>1589074
Or you could just decide for yourself

Either way, I think your art should allow you to be taken seriously, not what someone says. It's almost a worse thing to me that someone would go gaga over something I did just because their friends were doing it.

I'd rather have someone feel deeply about my work. I think this is a problem though, because writing isn't much of a career at all so when you see these people make it big it gives slumps like us hope when thats hardly the case.

>>1589074
You're probably too young to remember all the manufactured bands of the 70's, 80's, 90's, and early 00's. Lousy musical acts who for some reason become famous have been a staple of the music industry forever. It's a matter of marketing. Audio piracy had nothing to do with it.

Bad: The books sound absolute terrible
Good: She's taken advantage of a new medium effortlessly and benefited from it; shows hope for good writers who want to do that too

Okay then motherfuckers we strike back. I hear a lot of bitching but not a lot of solutions. I have a proposal.


WRITERFAGS - FUCKING SHUT UP AND WRITE YOUR SHIT THEN GET IT ONTO THE FUCKING KINDLE PLATFORM

We do what 4chan can do, promote (let's ignore the destroy part) like crazy bitches. Think about it, the wishlist threads were great but why not use them to promote EACH OTHERS work. Anon writes book, Anon links book, people randomly buy cheap ass kindle books and write reviews/improve rankings. Higher up the chart we go, the more people take interest, then the title is getting picked up on a regular basis. Monies for Anon. Exposure for Anon. Everyone profits.

What say you all?

>>1589261

You know I spent about 30 odd bucks the last time I participated in a wishlist. If a book is $1.30 or so, that could go a very long way. Pretty decent idea.

I could self-publish 9 shitty novels before the end of the year. You don't even have to edit self-published things, there's no approval process. I'll be happy to have 9 things published in journals or one manuscrpit I think is worth sending to a publisher by the time I'm 27, then again, writing isn't my "career choice," it's something I do because I enjoy it, so I can see why the rest of you are freaking out.

>>1589074
If anything the advent of internet piracy has opened the floodgates to the amount of choice of shit I can listen to. Sure there's more garbage out there, but I can discover this these little known gems myself or through word-of-mouth without relying on shitty authority music mags or charts. You had to really go out of your way to find these types of bands before whereas now it's a hell lot easier. I can see the same thing happening with the rise of self-publishing and e-books on the web.

I've lost faith in all of humanity.

Please wake me up when this is over with...

Too bad shit like this only works for the English talking world.

>>1589313

Maybe the rest of the world should learn to talk properly then instead of clicking and whistling.

This thread makes me a sad panda.

>>1589313
One does not 'talk' a language; one speaks it.

>>1589261

This, /lit/.

I'll get on delivering. See you in two-three years.

>>1589332
>boohooboo stop liking what I don't like not deep enough etc.

I type in Amanda and google fucking autocompletes it. She has a wiki page. Fuck.

>>1589346

Don't you mean a "wikipedia page"?

>>1588870
lol, trying to catch up on the thread since I last posted I read this.
>hope it does as good
>incorrect usage of an adjective as an adverb
>your writing needs an editor

Shit sells.

i want to get in on this. apparently ill be able to sell atleast something if i stick it on the kindle store.

This woman is making over two million dollars a year?

>>1589383
its infuriating isnt it?

>>1588782
ITT: Nerds raging because a terrible writer, writing terrible genre-fiction is making money by self-publishing.

How do you guys do it. If I got angry at things like this all the time (Bad movies/books/music being popular and making money) I'd be constently angry. Chill the fuck out.

>>1589386
>its infuriating isnt it?

I'm scared shitless of publishing anything I write (because I suck at it, I'll be the first to admit it). Meanwhile, this girl can self-publish teenage vampire romance novels and make all this money...

I mad. I very mad.

>>1589388
This. And...
>>1588839
This.

>>1589052
Readers today don't know what's a good read. Please see OP for reference.

Publishers know what good writing is; they have the training and experience to decide what is good or not. Please see OP for consequences of freedom of publication (read: author is rich, but floods the market with shit, allowing the 'readers' to squash all subconscious hope for a good read)

Bottom feeders feeding off bottom feeders

I don't see the problem

Oh come on /lit/ it can't be that ba...
>urban fantasy
>young adult
Okay, its pretty bad. Anybody else get a feeling that preteen and teen audiences are easier to please than adult audiences?

Also, I'm willing to bet this is a success story only because the media picked it up for being moderately successful in the beginning. E-books don't really have high visibility compared to regular bookstore titles

>>1588806
>But falling for two very different guys isn't even the worst of her problems. Jack and Peter are vampires, and Alice finds herself caught between love and her own blood...

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH CUT THE VAMPIRE CRAP ALREADY

You guys are such faggots.

>how dare she make money doing something she likes!
>if enough people like vampire fiction it'll spread to me and then I'LL like it so that's why people should stop liking what I don't like

Jesus, people who rag on authors of pure entertainment YA are about as logical as people who think that if people are allowed to be gay-married everyone else will "catch the gay." You're losing NOTHING from this girl independently publishing what she enjoys writing. (Not like e/lit/ists write anything other than goofy grimdark anyways.)

>>1589261
This fuckin' guy right here.

We can do this /lit/.

>>1589441
halo mister samefag.

Mind you, it's a good idea. But finding agreement on 4chan is almost fucking impossible, I mean other than Josef K. every writer on /lit/ has been rejected horribly. And even K. received some flak back then

I've stopped going in Waterstones because they now have a 'Paranormal Romance' section next to the comics, fantasy and sci-fi. Which means if I want the next Robin Hobb or a Transmetropolitan, I have to look at them all.

Thankfully I live in an academic bourgeoisie town and there's a bigger independent bookshop.

>>1589261

THIS.
Everyone on Kindle post your links up. If you've not signed up, go and sign up. It takes less than 10 minutes and you can be on the Amazon store in under 2 days.
If you want to bitch and moan that's fine, but how about we do something? How about we actually start making the change?

>>1589444
Not samefag. Just agreeing with him.

>>1589445
Ugh, cry more. The sad part is you even go to a chain bookstore when you have a well-stocked independent store in your town. Wah wah wah

>>1589448
I'll do this, if someone posts their stuff since I have about 10 dollars of amazon giftcard yet, but you have to allow previews of your first chapter, I won't buy it just because one of you wrote it. And if I don't like it, I'll give you a quick critique. How about it?

>>1589458

It's worth noting that every book on Kindle is enabled with a preview so you don't even have to blindly support one another you can check the material out first.

>>1589458

The independent store doesn't stock comics because it's a two hundred and fifty year old academic institution. So Waterstone's or the internet is my only option on that front.

I was just thanking Jeebus that I can get most of my books from there instead of being offered deals on Twilight rip-offs when I try to buy anything on a student deal.

I'm up for this amazon thing. Twenty of the finest English pounds ready for those on Amazon.co.uk for my britfag bros and a review for each. I think this could really catch on.

Wait, is something productive happening on /lit/?

Are posters actually uploading books onto Amazon then others helping by buying a copy and reviewing them? Because if so, well done. I always thought there was something productive that could be done with this board.

>>1589516

Nothing is happening and nothing is going to happen. It's all bullshit.

>>1589524

>>1589524

Then write somehting and put it up and I'l personally buy it and write you a review.

Oh wait, you won't, because you'll rather bitch and moan and act all superior. Enjoy doing that. We'll be over here actually making an effort and not being a child.

>>1589538
status:
[ ] told
[x] FUCKING TOLD

This is going to destroy books as an entertainment medium. The few good stories will be drowned in a sea of shit.

All of you faggots are bitching about this girl who clearly writes insipid drivel, but you're responsible for producing her. You have all in some way contributed to the death of classical liberal arts in the modern West.

Stop watching television.
Learn Greek and Latin.
Enrichissez-vous!

>>1589552

Fuck you. It's not my fault, my parents did it.

>>1589552
>You have all in some way contributed to the death of classical liberal arts in the modern West.
Excellent... just as planned.

>>1589552

You realise you're posting on /lit/, right? I don't own a television.

Not a hipster. Just poor and connected to the internets.

>>1589334
Thank you.
>>1589548
Already the case.
>>1589326
It's more of a volume problem. In French, there are only a handful of authors who can live off their art.

brb I'm just going to hunker down and crank out a romance novel.

>>1589593
>In French, there are only a handful of authors who can live off their art.

So France is like every other country in the world, regarding this. Neat.

>>1589607
I'm sorry. I was more thinking "you can count them on your fingers".

>>1589261
Maybe make the next ZWG available on the Kindle? Didn't Prole say it was coming back?

Don't make it only available on the Kindle - that will lead to an even bigger shit storm - but having it actually available on the Kindle with some way to share revenue (all $20 or so that it might get) could be pretty cool.

Popular fiction might see action being self-published in e-book form, but does anyone really believe that literary fiction will ever be done that way? The powers that be will never allow a self-published book to win a Pulitzer, Booker, or Bancroft award. No self-published work will ever become canonical. E-books are a long-shot way to make money but an impossible way to be taken seriously in the literature world.

>>1589906
>be taken seriously or make some money

Money.

>>1589906

It's already being done. e-books on amazon are now outselling print copies. They said the same thing about records/tapes/CDs with digital and now look at the industry. I love books, I love the physical ones but there's no doubt that this is happening right now and progress can't really be stopped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qWOy4p4MvM

lol

>>1589082
>>1589094
This isn't the music industry....

>>1589906
Exactly

Only already well-known authors will continue using publishers, maybe some digital writers will also consider publishing for more acclaim.

>>1589965

>self-published

so she's just the next Christopher Paolini?

>>1590008
Paolini had help from his parents. She published it on her own through Amazon Kindle, which a lot of authors are doing now.

>>1590014

Oh, odds are that because of the royalty difference she'll be making shit loads more than Chris.

>>1590047
There's absolutely no way any author can keep 70% of the sale price with a traditional publisher. Publishers used to be worth going to so they could offer you an advance, giving you money to pay expenses with while you wrote full time. Today, though, advances are extremely small - $2000 is considered a large advance, and that hardly pays rent and groceries for more than a few months.

Making the sort of money that Hocking makes, she can afford to hire her own proofreaders for $8 an hour.

E-books look like the way to go. If you can float yourself for a while writing your first book, or write on the side while keeping your current job, you might actually be able to make a career out of this.

>>1590096
while you're right about advances being extremely small, there are still benefits to traditional publishing. First off, having a traditional publisher pick up your book means that experienced editors have agreed that your writing was good enough to be published, which automatically puts you ahead of self publishers. They can also put your book into refutable book retailers like Boarders and Barnes and Noble, and they also do a shit ton of marketing which self-publishers can't do. Well, self-publishers can do some marketing, but not as well as publishing houses can.

Regardless of traditional publishing or self-publishing with e-books, success is a long shot in the dark, but at least with traditional publishing there's some quality filtering.

I wrote a bunch of shitty short stories when I was in middle school/high school. The full collection is on about 600 sheets of paper. They're really shitty stories that echo the thoughts of a mentally handicapped fanboy, but some are okay.

If I typed a few of them out to make a collection of short stories and published them in e-book format, would I have a good shot at making money?

>>1590152
you may as well do it, it costs nothing and you could make something from some idiot.

>>1590191
Is marketing a big part of it?

>>1590152
Might as well. You will make at least some money from it. May be surprised, though.

>>1590152
>>1590191
>>1590219

Hocking is making good money for several reasons:
1. She writes in a high-demand genre.
2. She had several books already written before she even posted the first.
3. She's gotten a lot of attention for being successful.

#1 is crucial if you want to make a lot of money.
#2 should be a reminder that you need to actually sit down and do the work of writing first. Also, you'd never make what she's making with just one book or even nine unrelated books. Series are where it's at in genre fiction.
#3 isn't something you have much control over replicating.

In her case, marketing doesn't seem to have much to do with it. It's more of the slipstream effect from writing a genre that has already had a major marketing push and is as a result in high demand. People want more Twilight-esque "paranormal romance" and "urban fantasy", and most of them aren't picky about it coming from Stephanie Meyer. You really can't go wrong (in terms of sales) taking cues from a really popular franchise. Just don't be a rip-off.

Go to the link in the OP and look at the works of the people in the Kindle top seller list, and also the difference in sales. Hocking is exceptional in her success, but the same general formula applies all the way down to the people selling 50 times less well.

>>1589965

God I wonder if there's a way to (politely) refuse to do televised interviews and not come across as a snob. I'm pretty sure my appearance and mannerisms would ruin potential sales of anything I write and publish.

>>1590302
Be Pynchon.

TP: You began self-publishing these series in April 2010, correct? How many copies have you sold at this point?

AH: As of Tuesday, January 04, 2011 at 9 PM, I've sold over 185,000 books since April 15, 2010.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tonya-plank/meet-mega-bestselling-ind_b_804685.html

That's nowhere near 100,000 a month. Yes it's enough to be a bestselling author by any standard, but the author of the op article is indulging in some hyperbole. Shame on you idiots for not bothering to check the source.

This post brought to you by the ghost of /new/.

>>1590302

Chances are good if you're making sales enough to be interviewed on tv that means you can afford to do something about those things, at least in the appearance department.

I've been telling myself if I make good enough money via Kindle publishing rather than buying vidya up the arse the first I should really get is a motherfucking nice wardrobe.

>>1590327
I can't believe everyone else itt took the op article at face value.

Let's put this in perspective. Nora Roberts, a traditional bestselling romance author in dead tree format has a print run of 2 million copies per book. That's 2,000,000 VS 185,000.

>>1590327
makes sense that the figures have been inflated when you see this at the very end:

>Interested in writing and publishing digital books? We’re building Pandamian – the easiest way to publish a book online.

/lit/ fell for a mountebank selling snake oil

>>1590322
>>Siegel reveals that Pynchon had a complex about his teeth

I can't help but feel he and I are kindred spirits already.

>>1590362
Do you think she was printing 2 million copies per book 6 months after being published? Hocking has been publishing since April of last year. Roberts has been in the game for thirty years.

If you have a productivity problem try Seinfeld's secret

http://lifehacker.com/#!281626/jerry-seinfelds-productivity-secret

>>1590327
More perspective. Twilight has sold over 17 million copies in dead tree. That's the first book in the series alone.

>>1590376
So what. Op article claims she's selling 100k every month, when it's actually a little more than 1/5th of that.

>>1590327
Nice catch. I posted a comment on the original article. We'll see how that guy responds.

>>1590381
>TP: And are the sales a combination of ebooks and print books?

>AH: Yes, they are, but the majority is ebooks through Amazon and Barnes & Noble. I've sold about 2,000 paperbacks since October, and prior to October, I sold maybe 20-50 paperbacks.

>TP: How long did it take for sales to really take off?

>AH: I published to Kindle in April, and I haven't sold less than 1,000 books a month since May. So my sales took off somewhat quickly. They didn't really start to explode until November. I published the second book in my Trylle Trilogy mid-November, and my sales really began to take off after that.

She's, uhhh, on her way to crush the Meyer steamroller.

>>1590327
Some dude responded to this criticism as a comment on OP's blog post. He cites a USA Today article claiming she sold 450,000 copies of her books in January.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2011-02-09-ebooks09_ST_N.htm

/lit/, Amanda Hocking is all of us:

>TP: Do you have any "training" as a writer? Did you take any workshops or college classes?
>AH: I've taken every writing class I've had available. I took classes in high school, and I took English and writing classes in community college, but I dropped out of college. I also attended a local writing workshop two years ago.

Guys if anyone of you writers with too much pride to publish shit want to write teenage vampire crap and get rich, i have a suggestion.

We publish it under my name - i dont care, i have no ambitions in writing - and youll get 95% of the money - i'll keep 5% for the smearing of my name.

I only need to find 20 writers capable of selling as much as Amanda Hocking - and i'll make 200k a month :)

>>1590432
Do you have a cool sounding name?

>>1590440
My name is Storm Constantine.

>>1590440
I'll be willing to change my name
Any ideas?

>>1590445
I have some great ideas about girls and vampires that meet through facebook and love each other but can't have sex cause that's not cool. There are werewolves around for some reason and all of them go to a boarding school of magic... IN SPACE!

>>1590432

>>1590454
And they solve crimes also.

>>1590454
>>1590466
Fucking genius.

>>1590417
I'm beginning to think maybe this chick is an unreliable source.

>>1590469
That's Amazon official numbers, not self-reporting, as far as I can tell. USA Today added three of her books to their Top 50 Bestselling Novels list.

brb going to write time-travel erotic romance novels aimed at the middle-age women market.

Pre-teen chick is infatuated with hot neighbor high school dude, who treats her bad and publicly embarrasses her. He takes it too far one day, she cries and wishes he was dead. He dies later that night

Years later she's in high school, new charismatic hot dude transfers in and has all the girls begging for his cock.The guy who died before signs into his instant messenger and tells girl to avoid him, to her shock. Make new sexy dude a vampire, and make the chick an outsider and 'so different from all the other girls" for some bullshit reason.

Instant cash

Pre-teen chick is infatuated with hot neighbor high school dude, who treats her bad and publicly embarrasses her. He takes it too far one day, she cries and wishes he was dead. He dies later that night

Years later she's in high school, new charismatic hot dude transfers in and has all the girls begging for his cock.The guy who died before signs into his instant messenger and tells girl to avoid him, to her shock. Sexy broseph becomes obsessed with her for being the only vagina not throwing attention at him. Then all the "mean popular girls" get mad at her for "stealing him" from them. Make new sexy dude a vampire, and make the chick an outsider and "so different from all the other girls, and no one understands her" for some bullshit reason.

Instant cash

I think I understand what the author of op's article did as regards here sales. She sold 450k in January alone, (though I can only find an unsourced claim for this in the USA today article, but that's fine it's likely true) and 185k in the previous seven 1/2 months, so that's 650k + over 8 1/2 months, near enough to 100k per month on average, to not be stretching the bounds of truth for a shitty blog too far.

Forgivable I guess. The blog author is not a blatant liar.

This post brought to you by the ghost of /new/

She makes 30% for $0.99 books and 70% for pricier books. Even if she's "only" selling a few thousand books a month, that's a whole lot more than even most published authors make.

>>1589261
Late to the thread, but let's do this. I'll have my poetry chapbook done in a month or two.

This is the future of publishing.

It benefits both authors and readers.

No longer do authors have to wait for some publisher to benevolently print their work, and readers can select what they want to read without waiting for the presses to benevolently hand them only that which they decided should be in print.

It's win-win.

Let's just say she sells 1,000 copies a month.

That is still $2,100 a month going to her. Although keep in mind she has 9 books out.

>>1589261
>Exposure for Anon.

But anonymouse is supposed to be a seekrit club like in the chuck guys novel

>borders going out of business
>the only things selling on kindles are for highschool students required reading and fanfiction.net 2.0

>mfw

>>1590586
I know you're being sarcastic, but just in case anyone seriously agrees: it's not like we have to mention we're from BOARDS DOT FOURCHAN DOT ORG SLASH LIT. Just spread around links to interested parties.

Amazon - a book store - kills literature.

>>1590571
at the expense of quality we get quantity.

yay!

>>1590618
How do e-books prevent good writers from getting published? Good authors have as much access to the internet as bad authors do.

>proof that you can be a successful writer without having to deal with a publisher
>make a shitload of money if people like your work
>/lit/ is mad

Wut.

>>1590646
>proof that you can be a successful writer without having to deal with a publisher
>make a shitload of money if people like your work
>all you have to do is regurgitate Twilight drivel

>>1590651

The same is true of traditional publishing. All of the people making big money are writing crappy genre fiction. Most of the people just making a living are writing crappy genre fiction.

>>1590635
You took my response out from under my fingers.

Just because more people are getting published doesn't mean--oops--talented people, you have to stop getting into print!

So can we start sharing our not-for-profit writing sites/blogs in anticipation of sharing our for-profit Kindle links?

Kindle is a cool guy, eh gets fat bitches money and doesn't afraid of anything.

>>1590902

Fuck it, sure, whack it up. I'll want to see.

Well /lit/, sounds like we may be on the verge of a massive social change. It's good to see authors breaking away from the dregs of corporations and corrupt publishings houses.

Viva la *descriptor here*!

>>1591410
fuckyear.
http://tinyurl.com/poetryanon

I'm the poetry chapbook anon, too lazy to find my last post. I'll have a finished book probably by mid-April, if not sooner. I love intensive workshops.

bumping for /lit/ rage

sageing the bumping

Bumping the sage, but also responding to:

>>1590571

The problem with everyone putting their work online without publishers is that there is no filter. If I buy a published novel, I know that at least one person, a professional, has appraised the book and thought "that's not shit". If I buy a self-published work, the only person I'm sure has thought that is the author itself.

In addition, some publishers become more trusted than others - if I was looking at a book and unsure of whether to buy it or not, then if it were published by Faber or 4th Estate, that may tip the balance, because I've read so many good books published by those houses.

There's always been vanity publishing - the internet doesn't change that, but it may make it harder to avoid.

>>1591561

>To be perfectly honest, I have never paid much attention to Sonic Youth, but my dad has always been a big fan of Thurston Moore

Man, I feel old now.

>>1592095
So you don't want an active part in your own culture, you just want it dictated to you?

More like Amanda Hacking. She isn't writing actual literature at all. She will make good scrilla, but as a writer nobody will ever take her seriously.

She's probably fine with the money though.

>>1592109

Yeah, that's exactly what I said, you fucking mong.

But I still don't want to pay 4,99 for My fucking Immortal or the Selected Works of Peter Chimaera. You can't get a refund because the author is retarded, otherwise the world would be full of returned Twilights.

I wish I wrote stuff that appealed to the middle of the bell curve. I'd have so many more fans because right now I have zero.

I read a few paragraphs of her first book. It's such horrible, horrible writing. It makes me salty as hell.

ITT: Jealousy

HAS ANYBODY HERE EVER READ SOMETHING BY HER? (BY AMANDA STOCKING)

HOW IT IS? AND WHAT SUBJECTS DOES SHE WRITE ABOUT? ETCETERA...

>>1592095

> If I buy a published novel, I know that at least one person, a professional, has appraised the book and thought "that's going to sell".

Fixed that for you. I agree that filters are necessary, but publishers as they are today are not good filters unless your taste happens to align with a large enough segment of the market that publishers are willing to make the investment.

What we'll probably see in the next few years is small operations that provide similar services to traditional publishers but without the institutionalized need to rely on mega-bestseller hits.

>>1592143
You totally can. You just say it was a gift and you don't want it.

Yeah, I should have also added

>thinks it's good/thinks it will sell/or is getting his cock sucked by the author.

pic related

>>1592159

When you bought it online, with your own credit card?

Fucking moron.

Pic related - it's you you tard

>>1592170
Don't blame me cuz you bought a digital version of Twilight online.

If it's a physical book, you still can. That has no bearing on trading standards. The only time you'd have a problem is if you bought from something like a flea market.

>>1592095
Chapbookfag returns. Rest assured, anyone who is remotely serious about doing their shit for monies has asked for peer review.

Not to say that those reviews are always considered, or that this represents the majority of young internet-age writers, but I don't know anybody who writes IRL who does not actively seek out criticism and advice from other writers.

>>1592106
My apologies! If it helps, my age feels bad, man.

>>1592143

> You can't get a refund because the author is retarded

You can get a return for Kindle books for 7 days. If it takes you a week to figure out that the author is retarded, you're retarded.

>>1589261

Pyramid schemes are illegal.

>>1592192
Report it for illegal content.

>>1589278

>I could self-publish 9 shitty novels before the end of the year.

And I could fuck a grizzly bear. Yeah, for real. I just don't want to.

If you can write 9 books by the end of the year, and sell several copies of each one, then I will suck your cock. On the internet.

>>1590454
>>1590454

How about gay cowboy wizards who sparkle in sunlight, then fly into space to drop a ring into the sun, but who are all the while oppressed by cowboy-spacemonks on rocket horses, then they find a wardrobe on the sun and get taken to a winter world.

That would set the sequel up nicely.

>>1592181

I don't agree with this - I think for a lot of writers on the interwebs, the posting of their drivel to the web counts as "peer review", and any negative criticism gets responded to with NO U FAG.

I agree with you that serious writers act as you say, but these are the guys who already have friends who are writers, and who actually engage with the literary world and thus actually have a reasonable shot at getting a more "traditional" book deal.

If there was somehow a way to ensure that self-published work had been peer-reviewed, and to see the contents of those reviews, then that would solve a lot of the issues, but then you're expecting writers to act as part-time comisioning editors to each other.

And work doesn't get properly edited - you can see the results when even a good writer goes beyond editing (Pynchon, Rowling, Stephen King - never thought I'd write those three as examples of the same thing).

The publishing business, though much maligned, has actually been doing a pretty good job of producing and promoting god writers, and while I acknowledge it should and will change in the information era, I think that systems should be created to preserve the best of the old system, rather than giving people the opportunity to download their Harry Potter/Transformers mashup fanfic.

Also, I don't have a kindle or similar, so what the fuck are people like me going to do to read?

>>1592289
>Also, I don't have a kindle or similar, so what the fuck are people like me going to do to read?

Pirated e-books converted into PDF.

>>1592299

And go blind before I'm 45 from staring at a backlit computer screen all day. And what do I read in the bath?

>>1592322
>And go blind before I'm 45 from staring at a backlit computer screen all day.
I feel compelled to ask. Are you trolling or genuinely ignorant?

>>1592334

I must be ignorant, because I can't think of another way to read these pirated .pdfs without a laptop or a computer with a lit screen.

I'm not so sure that reading pirated material is for me either - I like to live in a world where people can get paid for writing.

>>1592322

Good luck getting a job where this isn't your reality.

>>1592344

I have a job, thanks - I'm a teacher, so I don't do a lot of work at a computer - just preparing classes really, couple hours a week tops. Sometimes when I teach abroad, I don't even do that - just a blackboard and textbooks.

Even if I did have some kind of job in a cubicle farm, why would I want to come home and spend even more time in front of a PC?

>>1592341
Yeah, you are ignorant. Looking at a computer screen won't cause blindness and I can't imagine where you got the idea that it can.

A screen is certainly easier on the eyes than paper.

>>1592356

Now you're trolling. Or retarded. Everyone knows computers fuck your eyes.

I don't know why you guys are plotting to write shitty fiction for money.

I'd rather die in a ditch than infect the world with more shit.

For this reason, I destroy most of what I write.

>>1592356
>A screen is certainly easier on the eyes than paper.

Are you sure? How many books have you read on the computer screen?

>>1592384

I've done worse things for money than write shitty fiction - I've written advertsing copy ffs. and I used to write the "five minute fiction" in Bella magazine when I was younger. Hey, I was young and I needed weed money

Ebook reader screens are the same as paper, however LCD screens are worse on your eyes because when you look away your eyes need to readjust to the ambient lighting and that causes fatigue.

>>1592095
I expect to see book critics becoming popular again. Instead of publishers, online critics will read books and post reviews. Some of those critics will become popular and influential. Most people will discover new books through the websites of those critics.

>>1592394
This was for >>1592387

>>1592395

This is actually a very good point - I hadn't thought of this. It could actually lead to a renaissance in criticism, and provide a whole new arena for writers to make a few more quid. If your site is getting thousands of hits a day to see what you think of the new Peter Chimaera sequel to Digimon saevs teh wrold, then it actually moves power even further away from the publishers, magazines and newspapers who have the world of writing stitched up.

NIce one Anon, good argument.

Problem is though, I still like books. Then again, I think there are games companies who sell most of their stuff as .pdf but will print a copy up for you on demand, if tech allowed this then maybe everyone could be happy.

>>1592369
No, they don't. Maybe ancient CRT monitors.

>>1592387
I'll tell you this much: my vision was in slow deterioration when I read books in paper all the time. When I switched to reading PDFs the deterioration stopped.

Okay /lit/, let's do this.
Let's write a shitty, shitty book:

http://piratepad.net/iIonmoE9lj

>>1592426

>I'll tell you this much: my vision was in slow deterioration when I read books in paper all the time. When I switched to reading PDFs the deterioration stopped.

Well, that's that then. I take it all back, now that you present SCIENTIFIC PROOF. You win - the argument's over. I'm also very bored of it, can we go back to the original issue, whatever the fuck that was?

http://piratepad.net/mbrkchfiV6

Let's try this again.
Let's write a shitty book together, /lit/.

>>1592416

Print-on-demand has been going for years. It's just terribly uneconomical. With something like Kindle the author makes $7 on a $10 ebook. With a POD service like Lulu you're making nothing on a $15 paperback.

>>1592426
>my vision was in slow deterioration when I read books in paper all the time. When I switched to reading PDFs the deterioration stopped

Well, myopia starts developing around puberty and stabilizes when you hit early 20s, for example. Maybe just a correlation, not causation.

>>1592459

I thought maybe it was cheaper now. There are always going to be people who want paper books, so it's an issue that has to be addressed.

>>1592471
Wasn't in my early 20s.

>>1592472
I think at some point (maybe 20-30 years, who knows) most people would use their own terminal to read books on digital format, and paper books would become something of a luxury item (not expensive, just bought for the added value of the edition)

>>1592457

>>1592489

You're almost certainly right, and I've already pretty much resigned myself to a kindle, I keep getting jelly every time I see someone with one on a plane. Time to get over my oldfaggotry and move on, I guess.

>>1592477
There are cases and cases, but anyway, it was myopia, it started at puberty and then stabilized at some point? Cause that's how it works, independently of the way you read.

But whatever, if I read on the computer screen for a few hours I get red eyes and can't even focus and if I read a paper book or on the ereader I can read the whole day with no further problem.

>>1592457

What the fuck am I reading?

>>1592506

STFU ABOUT YOUR MANKY EYES YOU FAGGOT MOTHERFUCKER NOBODY GIVES A FUCK.

PROTIP: STOP WANKING SO FUCKING MUCH AND YOUR EYESIGHT WILL IMPROVE

>>1592509
A shitty book we were plotting.
Then /b/ arrived.

>>1592509

I've been disconnected apparently since the minute I joined and had no idea. I just thought it was as slow as /lit/.

Title:

The Sorrow of Vampire-Werewolf-Ninja King Blood-Mourning the 4th

Plot: Something to tickle teen-vag.

No sex whatsoever

Loving stares. All night.

> "This is literally the best book I have ever read", she mused "A tripfag must have written it."

> Our protagonist is named _ and she is a ninja. She doesn't know this until chapter two, when a bearded man she's never met discovers her face down in a gutter after binging on vodka/Red Bulls and vampire fapfic and informs her that: 1. there is a Santa Claus and 2. she is a ninja. One of the ultimate mysteries that spans the series is whether the bearded man she met is Santa Claus himself, but it won't be until book two elves figure prominently in the mythos of this world.

> Somewhere in the first third she becomes a vampire, as well. In the middle third she also becomes a werewolf. In the last third she discovers that she is also an _.

> If nobody gets in here right fucking now I'm naming the protagonist Fenchurch McFarquart. Oh fuck I'm not even connected, am I?

>>1592525
Fund it.

So, here's what's going down now:

They looked deep into his eye. It was krunk night, and bitches were all over his dick like jam on a vanilladick scone (and it was * delicious) a highly refined tea party orgy. "I am a real boy" said DJ Kool Herc Hogan (the cock jock) "no you arent i can see right through your facade. an illusion of cock dick.
Why would you say such a thing?. Before i came here, i was at the bank, and someone cut me in line. I had to cut his head open like a watermelon." WATERMELON? said the Pigglet Pig. There was watermelon all over the walls. Like slimy ruby pebbledash. Mmmm..."I am a real cocksucking Americunt and this is my story." Gabbled the American

Then the clock struck four, and they put their underwear back on to watch countdown.
10...o'clock eventually came and so did they. it was bedtime. The best time of the day.

>>1592626
They all drank sparkling malt melonade liquor while listening to DJ Souja Boy Hogan and they got pretty wasted cos they're cool like that,. and then they each took 6 tabs of acid and proceeded to trip themselves to rape all their nieghbors cats in the sixth floor, because good neighbours deserve to be raped. it sounded like an orchestra of disembowelled cats. Thats what happens if you fuck a cat too eagerly. Bits fall out of the cats anus as you are fucking it, but its ok. its only bits of cat flesh and that shit is good for your shaft. There were bits of cat flesh all over the walls. Like slimy ruby pebbledash. Mmmm.... the lube was missing. Someone had used to to glue the watermelon to the wall. Yes, lube is not usually gluey. Unless it is actually glue. Hardcore. Or so my uncle creepy told me. but he was wrong. the lube was actually there. and the cats anus engored to the size of a well in afganistan hiding osama and his extended family as they played monopoly and drank olde english iced tea. suddenly, there was a knock on the cave door. osama got up, checked his watch, and started masturbating furiously "WHAT A LOVELY COCK I HAVE." he sa gazing intently at his wife and kids. arent you going to answer the door? said his wife rubbing her firm yet supple breatst. the

So he screamed "THIS IS MUTHA FUCKIN KRUNK NITE LET ME HEAR Y'ALL HOLLA

>>1592626
Are you the guy who wrote that story in the Black House with zombies and President Veelvetron?

>>1592457
Can't get back on.

Plump.