/lit/ - Literature

>>15876431
Maybe you can find some advice on /lit/.

>>15876431
Because the God of old testament is a god, and the God of new testament a man.

different times require different solutions

t. Marcion of Sinope
But no seriously: Christianity is an embarrassing addendum, only Islam is worse.

>>15876431

The biggest red pill is that those are two different deities.

>>15876436
False. Biggest redpill is that it was Jesus who napalmed the sodomites.

>>15876431
Written by different people with different beliefs for different purposes.

>>15876431
https://youtu.be/3ett0mxSpAc

>>15876431
>there is such a massive difference
Is there? Says who? Your (((media)))?

Christ taught to "sell your cloak and buy a sword". The only physical thing he made with his hands in the New Testament was a whip; which he then proceeded to use as directly intended.

There’s literally more laws in the New Testament than the old.

>>15876438
Patrician answer

>>15876621
Jews believe there're 613 commandments in the first 5 books of the Bible.
Top that.

>>15876431
Wrong. He's exactly the same. You were raised Catholic in name only and your misunderstanding is not dogma. The grace of God and is continent upon repentance. Where there is none, God holds the sinner in hatred. Moreover, the New Testamant precludes any shimmer of hope for the obstinately wicked and promises the ultimate chastisement, eternal torment.

>>15876613
>Says who?
The bible.

Classic good cop bad cop routine

>>15876435
But there have been zero additions to the Quran after it was revealed in its entirety

>>15876433
Gnosticism has got to be the most cringe midwit "belief system" out there.

>>15876431
Yes
Jealousy is an imperfection. Yahweh is a tribal war god. Elohim is the Divine Principle. Our Father in Heaven is the Logos.

>How could a loving God flood the world? How could a loving God rain fire on a city?
Jeez, I don't know. Ever seen a gay pride parade or a furry convention?

>>15876813
Whenever the OT describes God as being "jealous" or "angry", it is an analogy to make it understandable in human terms. God tells Moses that he is a "jealous" God because he does not want the Jews to worship demons because he knows the consequences of demon worship - death.

>>15876431
Yes
Jealousy is an imperfection. Yahweh is a tribal war god. Elohim is the Divine Principle, I=I. Our Father in Heaven is the Logos, and the three are not One. Or perhaps they are. Chances are, God is shizophrenic in the literal sense of the word and there's nothing wrong with that.

God decided to get out of his edgy phase and become more virtuous

>>15876825
No, in those scenarios he really is jealous and angry even going so far as doing the silent treatment. I'm yet to find any scriptural basis for his omniperfection so I don't say this as a condemnation.

>>15876837
And silent treatment is emotionally abusive behaviour, I should add.

>>15876793
>t. Uthman ibn Affan

>>15876749
Kek

The stories were written over a vast period of time by different people. Christianity is a religion that took from various other religions in order to appeal to many people. It’s likely that at the time the new testament was written it was found that redemption and kindness were the prevailing techniques of religions at the time, as opposed to fear.

>>15876431

read this OP

https://www.unz.com/article/the-devils-trick-unmasking-the-god-of-israel/

>>15876928
Was judaism really a religion of fear tho?

>>15876825
We did he killed the sons of Ahron? Why did all the Canaanites had to die? Why did the Israelites had to wound their dicks even though it's forbidden to wound the flesh? Why did God hardened Pharoh's heart and then proceed to punish him and his people? Why did the first born of every Egyptian had to die?

>>15876942
It is in the old testament.

>>15876431
you were raised in "catholic" ward in mental hospital.

take this shit to /x/
stop killing /lit/ threads with religitard blabbering

>>15876928
the only reason the Jews in the OT kept coming back to Yahweh is because he would literally start using other nations to subjugate them by force or punish them himself whenever they strayed away from him. Very abusive behaviour.

>>15876943
> Why did all the Canaanites had to die?
Canaanites, Hebrews, Phoenicians and Carthaginians are all the same people.

(Like, say, the English, Americans and New Zealanders; they have different names but we all understand that they're just dumb Angloids.)

>>15876749
Lol

God is even worse in the new testament of you've actually read it.

>irreversible hell
>fuck dives
>damnation of those born in grace
>reprobation
>book of revelations

>>15877100
Eternal torment was invented long after the death of jesus.

>>15877112
Mark 9:43

>>15877112
Matthew 25:41

>>15877112
Revelation 14:11 ►

>>15876431
He’d the Demiurge and God of the Jews. A volcano demon

>>15877112
Luke 16:19–31
Matthew 8:12

Aeon ≠ Eternity

>>15876431
>Old Test God
Effectively living in Nature/Primative civilisation - you either followed what worked or died

>New Test God
Roman tier civililisation - there's not to much life/death and its more about being a good person

>>15877546
t. midwit that didn't read either

>>15876435
Based

>>15876435
If you must be an abrahamite, why not take the jewpill?

>>15877112
Daniel 43:10

What holy books have the best narrative and writing when considering them as pure fiction?

>>15878354
The Mahabharata

>>15876431
Read "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. It details the different authorships of the Bible, >>15876438
This is the most correct answer

>>15878364
excellent choice

>>15876431

>Is God a Moral Monster, by Paul Copan?

This is a great book that explores the seeming differences, but the reality of the bigger picture of God's justice as well as love.


He has been, is, and always will be the same God. If we have a problem in understanding God, we must realize the problem is with our understanding, not with God.

The OT God is basically how the true monotheistic god would act, a dishonorable tyrant. The NT God, however, is more henotheistic. This is exemplified by the two commandments of the NT: the first one commands pure monotheism, and the second commandment, the golden rule, commands acceptance of differences, which is a classically polytheistic values. This shows the influence that Hellenism had on ancient Israel

>>15876431
he killed evil people deal with it

>>15878976
>If reason conflicts with fiction, it's the fiction that is correct

>>15878976
Religious people are soo fucking cringe, like just admit you base your beliefs on no evidence and disregard reason whenever it confilcts with your empty dogmatic shitty beliefs.

>>15876436
This. OT god is the demiurge and the god of the Jews. NT is the capital G God of the universe.

>>15879336
>admit you base your beliefs on no evidence
But there is evidence in the bible.

>>15876431
>OT God
The just side of God.
>NT God
The merciful loving side of God.
They don't contraindicate each other it's just that each one focuses on one side more. The loving mercifull Jesus will be the one to also judge people and send alot of them to eternity in hell, you know that right?

>>15879624
>The loving mercifull Jesus will be the one to also judge people and send alot of them to eternity in hell
Then he is neither just nor merciful.

>>15879725
By who's judgement? Supreme moral entity anon 15879725's?

>>15876825
>it's an analogy
Sounds like an excuse to change what the Bible straightforwardly says. The Old Testament uses imagery of God as a jealous husband punishing his cheating wife to drive home the point that he is genuinely angry and jealous.

>>15879750
Having power over me doesn't make a deity any more a just judge.
He brought me into existence and then he's gonna punish me forever for some percieved slight? That is extremely malicious.

>>15876621
No there arent.

>>15876662
Faggot idol worshipper

>>15879624
Retarded understanding of God

>>15879355
Worst take of all time. God is God, Jesus was a heretic who died. God doesn't die. He wasnt God

>>15876431
There is only one legit answer
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm

>>15879493
lol

>>15876431
Read Marcion's 'Antitheses'. Oh that's right, you can't: asshurt proto-Catholics destroyed all the copies.

>>15879801
An omnipotent being has the capabilities to die without being killed.

>>15879919
God literally says he doesn't and wouldn't die. He certainly wouldn't have been resurrected, and he most definitely doesn't "return" a second time.

>>15876431
god is a human construct which changes as man changes

>>15879801
>Worst take of all time. God is God, Jesus was a heretic who died. God doesn't die. He wasnt God
Retarded understanding of Jesus.

>>15876434
We're in need of a proper final solution now.

>>15876749
kek

/lit/ isn't the place to get the bible explained to you. Threads like these only create a place for retards to shill muh ebig gnositicism

>>15880460
>2nd time Gnosticism has been mentioned
>by retard

>>15876827
>Jealousy is an imperfection
No, its a virtue. Only liberals think its wrong, therefore its right.

>>15880849
Jealousy is resentment towards something one desires but lacks. Lack is an imperfection, ergo, jealousy is an imperfection.

>>15880849
>No, its a virtue.
Top kek m8

Yandere God!

>>15876433
>>15876812

What the fuck does that have to do with gnosticism my dude.

>>15876431

>I'm looking for legit answers/links/sources/books.

:)

>>15876431
Not gonna lie, even Orthodox theology is kinda sparse on God the Father.
I mean look at the Creed (both Ortho and Catho); it has one sentence for the Father.

The Russian Church refuses to make iconography of the Father frankly out of mystery and not looking to offend. The other Orthodox Churches are more bold.

At the very heart of this question lies a fundamental misunderstanding of what both the Old and New Testaments reveal about the nature of God. Another way of expressing this same basic thought is when people say, “The God of the Old Testament is a God of wrath while the God of the New Testament is a God of love.” The fact that the Bible is God’s progressive revelation of Himself to us through historical events and through His relationship with people throughout history might contribute to misconceptions about what God is like in the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament. However, when one reads both the Old and the New Testaments, it becomes evident that God is not different from one testament to another and that God’s wrath and His love are revealed in both testaments.

Throughout the Old Testament, God is declared to be a “compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,” (Exodus 34:6; Numbers 14:18; Deuteronomy 4:31; Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 86:5, 15; 108:4; 145:8; Joel 2:13). Yet in the New Testament, God’s loving-kindness and mercy are manifested even more fully through the fact that “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Throughout the Old Testament, we also see God dealing with Israel the same way a loving father deals with a child. When they willfully sinned against Him and began to worship idols, God would chastise them. Yet, each time He would deliver them once they had repented of their idolatry. This is much the same way God deals with Christians in the New Testament. For example, Hebrews 12:6 tells us that “the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”

In a similar way, throughout the Old Testament we see God’s judgment and wrath poured out on sin. Likewise, in the New Testament we see that the wrath of God is still “being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness” (Romans 1:18). So, clearly, God is no different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament. God by His very nature is immutable (unchanging). While we might see one aspect of His nature revealed in certain passages of Scripture more than other aspects, God Himself does not change.

As we read and study the Bible, it becomes clear that God is the same in the Old and New Testaments. Even though the Bible is 66 individual books written on two (or possibly three) continents, in three different languages, over a period of approximately 1500 years by more than 40 authors, it remains one unified book from beginning to end without contradiction. In it we see how a loving, merciful, and just God deals with sinful men in all kinds of situations. Truly, the Bible is God’s love letter to mankind. God’s love for His creation, especially for mankind, is evident all through Scripture. Throughout the Bible we see God lovingly and mercifully calling people into a special relationship with Himself, not because they deserve it, but because He is a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth. Yet we also see a holy and righteous God who is the Judge of all those who disobey His Word and refuse to worship Him, turning instead to worship gods of their own creation (Romans chapter 1).

Because of God’s righteous and holy character, all sin—past, present, and future—must be judged. Yet God in His infinite love has provided a payment for sin and a way of reconciliation so that sinful man can escape His wrath. We see this wonderful truth in verses like 1 John 4:10: “This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.” In the Old Testament, God provided a sacrificial system whereby atonement could be made for sin. However, this sacrificial system was only temporary and merely looked forward to the coming of Jesus Christ who would die on the cross to make a complete substitutionary atonement for sin. The Savior who was promised in the Old Testament is fully revealed in the New Testament. Only envisioned in the Old Testament, the ultimate expression of God’s love, the sending of His Son Jesus Christ, is revealed in all its glory in the New Testament. Both the Old and the New Testaments were given “to make us wise unto salvation” (2 Timothy 3:15). When we study the Testaments closely, it is evident that God “does not change like shifting shadows” (James 1:17).

>>15882167
>>15882174
Yes okay but would you agree that he is schizophrenic and does not possess the ominperfections because these are scholastic inventions. If you do maintain omniperfection, please cite the relevant scriptural passages. Thanks in advance

When adam and eve brought sin into humanity, God basically tried to rectify the problem through two different systems, the old and new covenants. A covenant is a contract for a relationship. Example, marriage is a covenant relationship. The old covenant is through laws, regulations, dos and don'ts. New covenant is through grace and faith. Same God, two different systems.

>>15876431
>I'm looking for legit answers/links/sources/books

>Is the God of the Old Testament a merciless monster? | CARM.org
https://carm.org/god-of-old-testament-a-monster

>>15876431
The most comprehensive doctrine about this is from (unironically) the LDS church

The purpose of God in the Old and New Testaments is the same: choose people who don't deserve His attention, allow them to display His glory and righteousness, and commission them teach the world about Him. Abraham and the Israelites did nothing to earn God's attention (Deuteronomy 7:7-9), and neither do we (Ephesians 2:8-9). God chose Israel to obey Him and be holy (Exodus 19:5-6), as He does with us (Romans 12:1). And He charged both Israel (Genesis 22:18) and the church-age believers (Matthew 28:19-20) to present God's gift of salvation to the world.

God hasn't changed; the context has changed. He no longer primarily relates to the world through a sovereign nation, but through individuals and the church. This affects how we see the scale of His work. Where, in the Old Testament, an entire nation may have been destroyed, we see today one serial killer caught and prosecuted. Where, before, the nation of Israel may have gone into exile for their disobedience, now a sinful pastor is removed from ministry. And, by the same measure, where, before, God showed longsuffering toward His chosen people as they rebelled against Him, He now shows that same mercy to us when we choose the things of the world over His Word. God's holiness, passion, restraint, and fury are all exactly the same; we just see it on a personal level instead of a national one. And that means we can experience His love and forgiveness on a personal level, as well.

>>15880013
Mark 15:34, you illiterate.

The Bible is very clear about the unchanging nature of God. Consider two passages that assure us there has not been (and never could be) any shift in God’s character:

“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change” (James 1:17)

“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8)

However, your friend isn’t the only one who questions these claims. Many people read the Old Testament and see a God of violence. They see this God as an absolute contrast to the loving Heavenly Father of the New Testament.

But the problem of supposed differences between the Old Testament God and the New Testament God is far more complex than it first appears. To say that the God of the Old Testament is wrathful and punishing while the God of the New is loving and kind distorts the issue.

Let’s take a closer look at what the Bible really says.

The God of the New Testament is clearly a God of love (1 John 4:8). No doubt about it. But does that mean He’s only a kind, permissive, doting, grandfatherly figure? Hardly.

Consider the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11).

And remember the words of Jesus: “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!” (Luke 12:5).

The author of Hebrews agrees: “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Hebrews 10:31). Why? Because “our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29).

On the other hand, the God of the old covenant isn’t the relentlessly bad-tempered taskmaster some people make Him out to be.

The Old Testament scriptures describe Him more than once as “merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love.” They refer to Him as a God who “does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities” (Psalm 103:8-10 and Exodus 34:6-7).

Paul’s emphasis on grace and faith in the New Testament (as opposed to works of the law) didn’t start with him. This central biblical theme can be traced all the way back to Genesis: Abraham “believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness” (Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:3 and Galatians 3:6).

The same idea appears in Habakkuk 2:4, where the prophet writes, “Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith”. In other words, grace isn’t just a New Testament idea; it’s a biblical idea.

Bottom line: All authors of the Bible agree that God’s love and God’s judgment are two sides of the same coin. Fire can burn. And fire can give warmth and comfort. It all depends on where we stand in relationship to the flame. Both Testaments reflect this truth — each in its own way.

>>15882816
Literally the first refutation is "sure, god drowned nearly all of humanity in a flood including small children, but like, they weren't innocent so they deserved to die". This is the famous religious morality?

>>15882816
>>15885350
Also, the author claims this "erases the argument that god drowns 'innocent' people", this is an equivocation, as the argument is that the god of the old testament is a sadistic monster, which this example proves because even for serial killers we condemn to death, we do not use such a barbaric method as drowning to execute them

>>15885350
Religious morality is faking goodness because you have a gun to your head.

Polytheism revival when?

I only read up to Leviticus, but God seems perfectly reasonable so far. Is that bad?

>>15876435
Why is christian Gnosticism so appealing? I might even convert someday.

>>15886454
Occult shenigans mixed with the largest religion in the world.

>>15886454
Christianity is general is seductive, like a snake.

>>15886421
When Abraham tricks the Pharao that his wife is his sister, god punishes Pharao for trying to tap dat ass.
Pharao even calls out the bullshit.

>>15886496
Christianity is its own serpent.