/lit/ - Literature

3) The Middle East and Africa are by far the foulest pits of humanity to stain this earth. In poorer nations (re: most of them) the "people" there are more akin to animals than anything a westerner would consider a civilized human being. The kill, enslave, rape, and torture one another openly and on a daily basis, and many of their laws/religious dogma espouse this sort of behavior. If they are already killing each other, what's the difference between them or a soldier doing it? There are no "innocent" people in those places. These cultures do not give a shit about your highfaluton western values. So why should we apply our values to these mockeries of humans? Note that I am not racist. If a brown Arab man can adopt a non-Muslim, Americanized lifestyle without the whole "women are our property ALLAH ALAHU AKBAR" shit then more power to him. What I'm advocating is more of a "culturism", the idea that American culture is inherently superior to third-world "civlization" and that we should not pretend that such cultures are somehow equal to ours and feel obligated to tolerate them.

Well?

/lit/ isn't the new /r9k/ or /new/ you little piece of shit.

>>1586479
How would like to know that I agree with you and support the US military wholeheartedly AND I am not anti-feminist (not a pro radical-feminist either) or racist AND still a conservative?

what book is this from

>>1586480
good to know

>>1586481
I'd internet fist bump you

>>1586482
>implying /lit/ is about books

for actual literary discussion, go here
>>>/book/

>>1586478
this seems like old copypasta and on the off chance that it's not, i still don't give a shit

>>1586485
So you're bent up on shitting up the board even more with your shitty "debates" with no actual hooks?

>>1586487
I just wrote this, but if you don't give a shit then why did you post?

>>1586488
This doesn't have to become a debate. It is possible to have a regular discussion you know.

But fine. My favorite book is City of Dreaming Books by Walter Moers. It's about a Lindworm (Germanic dragon person) who searches the fantasy continent of Zamonia for the author of the greatest piece of fiction ever written, a ten page short story by an anonymous member of the extinct humans. On his journey he encounters all manner of shenanigans to include Mercenaries who try to kill him in the library-tomb-sewer underneath the capital city of Bookholm, an escape from a mad alchemists dungeon, and getting high with the fantasy equivalent of cajun witch doctors. It's awesome, but I don't give a shit what you think about it because you're all trolls anyway and will automatically bash me for liking speculative fiction.

>>1586492
You aren't actually looking for a discussion are you? You came in here hurling insults, making assumptions and assuming everybody were trolls. Seems like you're more interested in a fight than a discussion.

How is this related to /lit/ at all? Go away, please.

>>1586478
>>1586479
First: I don't think you should quit your job, and I don't usually look down on soldiers for being soldiers.

1) Have a public job doesn't apply to me.
2) I don't doubt that, neither have I ever. That doesn't lead me to believe that the intervention in Irak was warranted though, to be quite honest, I still can't fathom the hubris that has led to this.
3) There are a few problem with this:
- granted: life is wildly different in these regions from what it is at the end of your block, though if you look a bit closer you might find similarities in disguise.
> If they are already killing each other, what's the difference between them or a soldier doing it?
The difference is that you are the person with blood on his hands. Whether it's good or bad, or beyond the reach of morals, I can't really tell.
>So why should we apply our values to these mockeries of humans?
Mockeries of *western* humans.
>If a brown Arab man can adopt a non-Muslim, Americanized lifestyle
Then he would be american, wouldn't he?
>inherently superior to third-world "civlization" and that we should not pretend that such cultures are somehow equal to ours and feel obligated to tolerate them.
I sympathize but, I think we should not tolerate them WHERE WE LIVE: while I think one is entitled to enforce a certain behavior in his block, town, country, I don't think this jurisdiction extends to remote parts of the globe.

It all boils down to this: if it can hurt you, pound it; otherwise, leave it the fuck alone.

>>1586510
>3
it hurts everyone. if you have the power to intervene, you should, etc.

not necessarily applying that to the war, just a general statement

as for 2, I don't even know what you're saying

>mfw I've noticed that many times when people have nothing to say to an argument, they usually cry "you just want a fight you're not here for a debate"

but you see, I won the fight before it has even begun and that's why you mad

but like I said, it's not necessarily a debate

>>1586522
>it hurts everyone. if you have the power to intervene, you should
I'm not sure I get it, so I'll be charitable. When you say everyone, do you mean that what is done to one human is done to humanity as a whole, that we're all smeared by the blood shed? See that would be weird selective solidarity: on the one hand you intervene because you consider the people that are harmed to be humans, on the other hand you state that they are barely human and their life are, if not worthless, at least of a lesser value than ours westerners.
Make up your mind bro. I don't think you can have it both ways and still hold a sane conversation.

>>1586530
Believe it or not, the modern standards of what humanity is, were developed by civilized west and civilized east. Rest is actually muddle as the OP says.

>I live in a country with no army

>mfw /lit/izens probably have had passionate debates arguing for separation of church and state, and the negative impact of religion, but would defend Islamist regimes before the US military

>>1586479
I wasn't going to reply until I read this. This is the part that gets under my skin. Who are we to say our culture is superior? Sure, we're the people with the biggest guns, but does that give us the right to destroy every other culture on the planet?

Additionally, our culture is no less destructive than theirs, and is in fact much worse. If an ecological threat comes along that destroys western culture, then they're all going to go back anyway.

It's sort of like gay marriage, people are still going to do what they want, but you're going to come into their houses and boss them around like you have some kind of right.

>>1586538
Illiterate troll

I think you should have joined the Air-Force. I would have, but there is no way in hell I would be able to stay sane from all the drill instructing. If the draft is reinstated, I will try to get an Air Force office job nonetheless...

>>1586553
>he cares about trees and the ozone layer more than human rights and therefore middle east > the west in his mind

>>1586478

Not sure if trolling, but I wanted to mention something. Just because you can't compete with the "financial alpha dogs" doesn't mean you have less drive or ability. It's just that there are SOME things in life that matter more to you than money.

Our country and its economy are large enough to support a few people who only care about money, but not everyone can be that way, or society falls apart. So don't think less of yourself for not being one of them.

>>1586561
reasons I wouldn't join the air force:

1) they are essentially civilians in uniforms, disciplinary rankings as considered by most armed forces personnel:

1) marine corps
2) army
3) navy
4) chair force

I aint hating, I'm just saying. The air force is pretty much civilian government employment, not what I'm looking for. Also, the army has the most funding and more military schools, airborne, diver, ranger, special forces, sapper, etc.

And the drills aren't that bad. A lot of civilians think "oh god I'd never join the military because it's so strict" but our best kept secret is that sergeants are actually nicer than civilian bosses. Think about it. A sergeant might yell at you, but so will a civilian boss. The difference is that most of the time the sergeant actually gives a shit about you (or at least the unit) and wants to see you be a good soldier, whereas the civilian boss only cares about money and is actually butthurt when he yells. Soldiers don't give that much a shit about getting yelled at, we care about end results. A sergeant major can get in my face and yell for three hours, make me do pushups, and threaten me with all kinds of paperwork, but as long as he doesn't actually file any paperwork I don't give a shit and will probably be daydreaming catchy music videos in my head the whole time.

>>1586563
How could human life exist without the ozone and trees? I'm genuinely interested.

>>1586530
as a sentient being, I feel that the capable are morally obligated to minimize the amount of suffering in living organisms, subhuman mudslime included

that said, I have no qualms about quickly ending a life with a bullet. after all, when you shoot someone to death, you have probably decreased the net amount of pain they will experience in life by ending it prematurely. not that I think we should all just commit suicide, but that's a whole nother can of worms and outside the scope of this thread.

op, your first point was awesome.. although, there are 'good' jobs out there, in the third sector or science for example.. also there is a moral case for working within the system we are presented as changing it would cuase huge damage.

but, your job is to murder. and your not doing it for any reason other than you are told to. often the reason you were told to was pretty scummy.. ergo its a job for morons or asswholes, who either dont care or dont know what they are doing, in guesing your the formeer.

>>1586571
it can't, but the reduction of human suffering should be our immediate priority. the ozone layer is important and pollution needs to stop, but it's those trees aren't going anywhere for a while, hippy

i dont hate the military all that much, soldiers even less so.

however, your 3rd point is just insensitive and too much of a blanket statement to be right.

>>1586578
actually, not every job in the army is to "murder" or even kill anyone. although I am a trained marksman, my primary job deals with something else, not going into specifics. my job saves more lives than it ends, though.

that last part could be said for infantry in the long run.

>>1586581
>insensitive
cry more?

>>1586581
>too much of a blanket statement to be right
this is too much of a blanket statement to be right

>my job saves more lives than it ends, though.

uhuh, 9/11 kills 7000, iraq war kills 100,000s of thousands..

yehhh u keep those statistics in your favour..

that's a trollish attitude mister.

>>1586589
have you ever killed a man?

>people are responding to this thread
>people tell me I'm ruining /lit/
>mfw

I agreed with you up to the point where you fail to see that the ragheads have stronger values than the decadent westerners

1) Enlisted or officer? Rank? MOS?
2) agree with the vast majority of what you say
3) agree-ish. the problem has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with culture.
4) back to three. the problem with civillians and the whole culture thing is that the cancer killing democracy is the belief that all opinions are equally vailid, or for that matter, that we always have a right to oppinion
5) Plan on doing OCS for the corps. who says marines can't be well read/cultured
6) Love Sun Tzu. people fail to understand how truly anti war he is. its just as much about responsibility and leadership as it is warfare, and the Art of War was actually written as a pamphlet for retarded civilian officials in the province of Wu
7) Have you read 'Starship Troopers?'
8) /k/?
>>>/k/

>>1586596
talking about my specific job, not the war in general. and who says life in is inherently valuable? if the war killed 3423423423423423423423423423432424 cockroaches, does that mean it was a horrible war just because a lot of living things died? middle easterners pretty much = cockroaches

>>1586597
I sorry, will u b mai waifu?

pic related, my current waifu

>>1586598
the most tactless thing you can ask a soldier

>>1586601
Deep and Edgy has entered the thread. It is now inherently shit.

would you ever kill a man op? do you feel like this is right? or wrong?

would you feel as wrong selling people food?

>>1586605

enlisted, will be dropping an OCS packet once I get my degree

I have been planning on reading starship troopers for years and shammed out of it. no idea why, I read all kinds of other books. meh

haven't been to /k/ much since everything thing became the "we hate nutnfancy" fan club and mfw clip threads, but I poke my head in there from time to time

calling them mudslime = age old tool used my military to de-humanise.

its worked very well on you (and the whole population)

do you think these people can love? or hate or cry?

they are clearly very passionaite...

do you know why they are fighting? i bet most people on htis bored dont..
do you know why they hate israil for example?

i bet you dont and i also bet you dont want to find out as your happy being one of the 'good' murdedrers..

fuck you.

>>1586611
>killing
can be right or wrong. yes, sometimes a soldier shoots a man to death and nothing but good comes of it. that is when it is right to kill someone.

>would you feel as wrong selling people food?
wat

>>1586626
do you think killing us soldiers is bad?

>>1586611
Wait, what? Are you trying to construct some sort of straw man here?

>>1586622
You certainly are.

Alright then, if we're gonna do this shitfest I'll play in the shit with the rest of you.

Hey OP I couldn't be bothered to read everything you typed out there but I want you to know that I'm hoping for as many US casualties as possible in any given military engagement. Surely you're aware that most of you people aren't worth much, yeah?
Also I wanna know if any of you guys possess the insight to realize that our country is quite obviously sending the dregs of our society to fight global-scale "undesirables".

would it be wrong to kill all of your army friends?

if you and all your family were surrounded by mudslime with guns and your countrys furtre was beign dictated to you by mudslime would if be wrong to kill them?


no, all war is fine... its not wrong at all...

1) Because my job doesn't consist of invading peoples countries killing their people and raping their women
2)When was the last time our "FREEEEEEDOME" was threatened and the military had to protect us? 1812?
3) American culture is a cesspool of celebrity gossip and conspicuous consumerism. It's by far the shittiest culture that has ever disgraced mankind.
4) I bet you think you're really important and people should give you respect right? No. Fuck you nationalist douchebag. Take your self righteous ass back to /k/ faggot.

>>1586622
>dehumanise

your mistake here is assuming I give a shit about whether someone has hopes and dreams, can love and laugh, etc. so what? this sounds like an appeal to emotion. killing someone can be a repugnant experience, but that is just a visceral response to outside stimuli. and the end of the day, some people need to die, and just because death is a nasty affair and makes people sad doesn't mean it can't be used for the greater good

the bottom line here is that even though terrorists/rebels can feel the same thing as anybody else, they are still shitheads who wish us harm. they want to kill americans, so I don't feel guilty about killing them.

>>1586635
omg ur soooooooo edgy.

Nah, I'm joking - that's just too obvious a troll attempt though. You do make one point I'd like to reiterate:

Can we please get back to discussing literature someday? Sage for irrelevance and giant troll-fest.

>>1586643
I was being
super cereal and I'm not kidding

you make an okay argument

i don't care much for you though

>>1586640
greater good? need to die? lol

what is this greater good?

btw you still havent said if its wrong to kill a US solider?

>>1586635
>I couldn't be bothered to read everything you typed
ditto, I hate you shithead perma tripfags. I'm only using one in this thread to prevent trolls

>>1586637
>I will never accept defeat

part of the warrior ethos that we are supposed to live by. soldiers do not surrender, ideally.

I would probably use their own kamikaze tactics on the haj.

>>1586638
1) I'm sure pushing paper is more honorable for your boss is more honorable and makes you a better human being than me.
2) see the second point of my OP, it concisely refutes this point
3) you should be thankful you have the right to gossip about celebrities, faggot. I have been to countries where pasty white boys like you would get the death sentence for looking gay.
4) never said I was important and I think the whole "thank you for your service" thing is a bit overkill.

>>1586649
Oh u

>>1586640
Right, some people need to die like the fools who thought joining the military would be a great idea.

And hell, what're you fighting for? Disgusting suburbs with no culture, the Automobile Slums which people sit in day in and day out? or are you fighting for some "greater purpose," like truth, justice and the derpity derp?

>>1586655
ha, why would it be wrong to kill one? It's a subhuman parasite with a GUN. Fuck. Seems so simple.

>>1586658
>part of the warrior ethos that we are supposed to live by
hahaha

are you serious?

you romantic rat

i hope all of our soldiers aren't so horribly emotional

also
>greater good
if you use this phrase you're not only a fool but a tyrant

>>1586651

"3) The Middle East and Africa are by far the foulest pits of humanity to stain this earth. In poorer nations (re: most of them) the "people" there are more akin to animals than anything a westerner would consider a civilized human being. The kill, enslave, rape, and torture one another openly and on a daily basis, and many of their laws/religious dogma espouse this sort of behavior. If they are already killing each other, what's the difference between them or a soldier doing it? There are no "innocent" people in those places. These cultures do not give a shit about your highfaluton western values. So why should we apply our values to these mockeries of humans? Note that I am not racist. If a brown Arab man can adopt a non-Muslim, Americanized lifestyle without the whole "women are our property ALLAH ALAHU AKBAR" shit then more power to him. What I'm advocating is more of a "culturism", the idea that American culture is inherently superior to third-world "civlization" and that we should not pretend that such cultures are somehow equal to ours and feel obligated to tolerate them."

LOLWAT

"Note that I am not racist."
AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
dammit, and i was just about to buy you a nazi uniform. Thanks for pointing that out brah.

>>1586658
I dont have to thank you for anything faggot scum like you join the military because you can't get jobs anywhere else. And you are a class A retard if you think by shooting up a bunch of goat herders you're securing the American right to have a shit culture

fucking idiot

1) very true. does that mean that capitalism is ok though? we are all getting fucked in the ass by the richest 10%

2)yeah, only kids make that statement. any why is it that a corporation must own the world and not a collectivist society? in that case, i would rather have an arab dictator because i have a chance to kill the fucker and start a socially democratic society

3)yes, the us culture is superior, but that does not mean we dont have shit to fix with ourselves. poverty, sexism, etc.
if we choose to do the 'we are better than them' mentality we will never progress as a society and stay stuck in the current situation we are in


try harder next time

>>1586675
you feel inferior

>>1586674
but that's not racist, you bigot

Might be over there in a year or two.

I know you want to have a discussion and I agree with you on all 3 points BUT you are trying to have it on 4chan and on /lit/, which is the dwelling for pseudo-intellectuals from every lonely dorm room in this country.

>>1586667
>>tyrant
He's seized power with no legal right to it?

Protip: If you want to point out that someone is being a bit overly romantic/emotionally idealistic (he probably is, if he's not just trollin'), avoid emotionally charged usage of terms yourself.

i'd go so far as to say that the noble profession of being a SOLDIER dies at people like these. You are not fit to wear the uniform. Turn it in and go back to your mom's basement, I'm sure the local Walmart is hiring. Then you can wage war on customers arguing about sales.

You detractors are pretty much all saying the same thing. You are bashing American culture but I bet if the government said "well fuck you then" and shipped you off to the middle east, you'd cry like a bunch of little bitches. You liberal college kids really do take your privileges for granted.

Also, I think you're all just mad because when you were awkward kids growing up the captain of the football team wedged your underwear up your asscracks and you've hated jocks ever since. Sure, the army is full of dumb country boys, but I'd take them over you barrel of nancies any day. What exactly have you done for your beliefs? Fucking nothing, you sit around and bitch on the internet all day. Soldiers actually stand up for what we think is right, and sometimes die for it.

You are physically weak. You are mentally weak. You have accomplished little in life and helped nobody. You may know a little more math and philosophy than me, but that's about it. This is my stereotype of the average /lit/izen, and I don't really give a shit about the opinions of such people.

Because that's all you're doing. Giving opinions. How about, I dunno, a real discussion? Some folks have at least contributed a genuine question in their posts and thanks to those who have.

>>1586684

Yes it is, faggot

>>1586687
>Soldiers actually stand up for what we think is right, and sometimes die for it.
which is why i'll never have any respect for you

>>1586687

Excuse us for not taking you srsly. Why post here in the first place if you have a stereotype about us? srs....

>>1586478
look at all this ruckus you dun goof started op. I believe there some toilets that need some scrubbing.

>>1586693
>Soldiers actually stand up for what we think is right, and sometimes die for it.
But that's completely incidental to being a soldier, propaganda aside

>>1586674
skin color =/= culture, once again

>>1586675
please see the second point of my op, once again

>>1586677
>I could start a revolution right now if I wanted to
then why haven't you if america is so shit?

>>1586685
>noble profession
hold the phone, nobody said that bro

>>1586687
i wanna have a discussion, damn it.
throw me a fucking fastball pussy and i'll knock that shit

give me your best you grunt


how is what i do any different from what you do? it isn't. and it's sad that society has made everyone have an immoral job that is dependent on the

yeah the military does useful things. doesn't mean they're not holy fuck over funded.

>>1586696
have i denied that?

>>1586697
america isnt shit which is why i dont start a revolution. if we had mubarak or gidaffi we would

>>1586697

No bro, I said that. I didn't say you claimed it, I claimed it. MY claim is that it's a noble profession ideally.

college fag that's going to go to OCS here again.

I for one, do NOT see it as 'they're just cockroaches so we can crush them durr hurr.' I do not believe that this is some sort of white man's burden thing. Anytime that there is collateral damage, its truly unfortunate. Ideally, the purpose of the military is to force the opponent into submission while sparing the populace rather than simply nuking everything we see. I hate there culture, but honestly I pity how pathetic and backwards they are.
As for all that gossip and bullshit in American culture, it's stupid fucking civvies who are the reason for it. one of the reasons that servicemen have such a contempt for civilian life

us troops kill innocent people for a living. i don't.

geegee

THis thread is a troll thread OP go die in a fire, sage.

>>1586696
okay? my point was that people who go to school and eat cheetos and play farmville should talk less shit about soldiers who stand up for what the think is right, have the potential to help millions of people, and could kick your asses IRL

tl;dr how is a skinny faggot like you guys who haven't done anything in life any better than a soldier?

>>1586702

>college fag that's going to go to OCS here again.
> I hate there culture . . .

I'm so glad these grunts will be following Officer Retard to their own deaths.

>>1586706
>better
stop using this word

no one is better than you

you are better than no one

we have different life paths

but i can't forgive you for being such a romantic

>>1586707
hurr durr you done made a typo so you're a faggot durr

>>1586705
It's going to take a LOT of sage, I'm afraid.

>>1586706

sir, i refer you to /b/
you would be much happier there

>>1586708
He's enlisted, what can you expect? I usually haven't seen levels of motardation this high except in the Marine Corps

>acquire a high school diploma
>be a burden on society until shipped off to boot camp
>join up with thousands of other useless FAS zombies
>go shoot up some camels
>get shot for your trouble
>go back home to be an even bigger leech than you were before
>YA'LLS BETTER RESPECT ME I'M A HERO

>>1586702
if you pity them, then why not nuke them? you know, a pity nuke. it's like when Santiago hits the fish in the head with a club to spare it the pain of being flayed alive.

we can nuke them to spare them (and us) the pain of their miserable existence

this man has actually taken the military's propaganda and internalized it. he is truly an empty shell that has been filled.

the military loves men like you. men without a purpose or men with frayed ends that need something to bind it all together. it is no coincidence that the military aggressively preys upon the poor (and if you're not poor yourself, talk to some of your army buddies and you will see)

>>1586716
major ass burgers detected

>>1586687

Well you do make a point there. I for myself was never interested in the army or in military and I am pretty much a slim fuck. So yeah those guys surely would kick my ass in RL.
But I also accept what they are doing and sure as hell I respect people who actually were in some sort of battle or have seen fucked up shit.

But you have to think about that. Everyone chooses his own path in life. Mine os probably the path of a thinker / writer. I am happy about it, I am happy I am intelligent and also if I could change my intelligence against good looks or physical apperance I wouldnt do it.

>>1586718

applause

>>1586708
>romantic
I'm very pragmatic, I don't know where you get this. just because I cited the warrior ethos doesn't mean I'm blinded by it. it just happens to fit an opinion I already had.

>>1586713
and fuck you call of duty, nobody cares if you want to sham all day and avoid the stern gaze of your platoon sergeant. some officers actually believe in what they do and aren't just in it for the money, shitbag

1) OP, even if I didn't have family in the military, I don't respect soldiers who think that they're all high and mighty in comparison to the civilians they protect. No one is better than the other.

2) And I don't like how you think everyone in the middle east are cockroaches. You lowered yourself by putting down your own kind.

3) No. American USED to be the wielding power of the world (read your history). I don't like it either, but it's China and India who are getting the bigger piece of the pie.

Not /lit/ related.

Sage & Reported

>>1586716
On the subject of pity, mercy, &c... You've done an admirable job as a troll - you've riled up the various half-formed, emotionally-charged ideals that cover both sides of the issue. You've created a storm of never-ending, back-and-forth smugness and logical fallacies that will continue on, convincing no one on either side, until you finally leave.

You have succeeded as a troll. 10/10. Now please let this thread die. Let everyone depart, thinking they've "won", or that their opponents were subhuman garbage, incapable of the level of reasoning that they themselves obviously possess. It's what will happen anyways, I'd just rather like to speed it along.

For everyone that wants to get rid of this thread jut report is as illegal content. After 5 reports the thread will automatically be deleted.

>I'm very pragmatic, I don't know where you get this. just because I cited the warrior ethos doesn't mean I'm blinded by it. it just happens to fit an opinion I already had.
A very effusive and some might even say tainted opinion

you're a romantic

i liked the part about the average person being guilty of blame, that is something i constantly think of. the indulgence, ego, childishness, slovenly nature of thought, lack of personal growth past the age of 15 (schooling isnt personal growth), is now such a problem that the world is basically ending.
as above so below. the thing is we arent killing people with our own hands for money. your only slightly worse than someone who kills through total responsible abandonment of their lifestyles effects, only slightly. but that still makes you part of the modern disease.

ITT: obvious trolls manages to troll /lit/ because /lit/ has opinions about the military they just gotta shriek like chimps with pant hoots.

>>1586728
How am I wrong? It's the Marine Corps that is most known for its 'warrior ethos'/morale/esprit de corps; ESPECIALLY in the enlistees. I am not doing it for the money (last time I checked, jobs in the military don't pay shit), I am doing it for the people. If you do go to OCS they will definitely do something about your kill-'em'-all attitude. That's the last thing they want in somebody giving orders

>>1586739

lol guilty of blame? oops

>>1586718
>>1586723
the army isn't my whole life. I write fiction and plan to submit to a literary agency in 2012, if I start to make enough money to live from my writing then I may/may not reup depending on how I feel about being an officer versus sitting at home typing on my computer and going to nerd conventions