/lit/ - Literature

Twilight of the Idols

Genealogy Essay #1

Fight me

>>15863823
start with zarathustra and end with zarathustra
then start again with the greeks

>>15863823
Depends on how smart you are and how well you tolerate ambiguity. Behind Good and Evil is a good start imo, TSZ if you want to inject Nietzsche straight into your veins.

>>15863823
Depends on how smart you are and how well you tolerate ambiguity. Beyond Good and Evil is a good start imo, TSZ if you want to inject Nietzsche straight into your veins

BG&E -> TSZ -> TGS

The Birth of Tragedy is a good solo work of his but almost completely unrelated to everything else in his overall philosophy. You can read it before or after any of the above works if you so choose.

>>15863823
Depends, do you want to read some of his philosophical works? Beyond Good and Evil, or even Zarathustra. If you want to read your biography, go with The Gay Science.

>>15863823
highly recommend starting with Human, All Too Human

>>15863823
Start with my anus.

Twilight of the Idols >> Birth of Tragedy >> Beyond G&E >> Genealogy >> Anti-Christ >> Gay Science >> Ecce Homo >> Zarathustra

>>15863823
Nietzsche:philospher, psychologist, antichrist by kauffman
The portable Nietzsche by tanner
The birth of tragedy is important because the dionysius of his later works is a synthesis of the dionysian and appolonian.
The gay science
Human, all too human
Beyond good and evil
Thus spoke zarathustra
On the geaneology of morals (arguably the best standalone work)
Nietzsche contra wagner
Twilight of the idols
The antichrist
Ecce homo
Twilight of the idols

>>15865383
>apollonian vs. dionysian
>unrelated to his philosophy

>>15863823
https://youtu.be/w9zSQ2uGCoI
This will put you on the right track as to what frame of mind you should be in while reading N.

>>15865799
>G&E
>Gae
>Gay
Lmao.

>>15863823

TI, GE, BGE, GM, TSZ, HATH, D, A, EH

>>15863823
The Anti-Christ is the most concise synthesis of his philosophy. I'd start there then branch out.

>>15867962
>Stirner
Who fucking cares
>No Plato, Aristotle, spinoza or Descartes
Shit meme

>>15867962
>>15868181
The pre-readings are pretty lacking, yes, and Stirner does seem out of place in there. apart from that, it seems like a good guide on how to aproach Nietzsche
>>15868062
nigga, don't be dumb

>>15868181
>>15868212
"Will to power" it's literally the ego lmao

>>15868212
The Anti-Christ is by far the best introduction. It contains all his critiques and ideas in brief.

>>15863823
For me, it's the Birth of Tragedy

What did Nietzsche think of Guenon?

>>15863823
Genealogy of Morals. It's the most appropriate for explaining the age we live in and is the most straightforward.

>>15868257
Look into what the schollars have to say about "Will to Power". it was a bunch of re writings made by Nietzsche's sister. If you take will to power in a serious way as a part of Nietzsche's corpus you must not be taking the reading of Nietzsche in a serious way my dude

>>15868287
so, a good way of half-assing and not correctly understanding Nietzsche? many have fallen in that problematic reading before. understand what he means first, and then look into a brief way of stating his ideas like in The Anti-Christ

>>15863823
Nietzsche: On Theognis of Megara by Renato Cristi. It's a translation of his exit thesis that not only cements his status as an excellent philologist and Greek scholar but also gives a background to his later thought that is essential.

After that, his On the Future of our Educational Institutions lectures:

http://la.utexas.edu/users/hcleaver/330T/350kPEENietzscheFutureTableCut.pdf

Then, Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks, which was an unfinished but very interesting work where he was examining the Pre-Socratics in detail.

From there, go in chronological order starting with Untimely Meditations (or start with Human, All Too Human if you're impatient and want to get to when Nietzsche starts really turning heads). The Birth of Tragedy is a decent read only after you've read most of his other works, because it's less important than the others and he didn't agree with all of it in his later years.

>>15868257
It isn't. It's clear from the unpublished notes that it is a metaphysical phenomena - even a panexperiential property at the core of everything.
N was not an egoist.

>>15863823
Nietzsche: philosopher, psychologist, antichrist by Walter Kauffman is the standard answer to this question.

He plagiarized Stirner without knowing how to de-spook himself

>>15868487
You have not read Nietzsche.

>>15868487
Stirner didn't de-spook himself, because he still believed in spooks.

>>15863823
>literally the first time ever reading a philosophy book
>choose thus spake zarathustra because Nietzche sounded interesting to me and it's his magnum opus
>“Observe,” continued I, “This Moment! From the gateway, This Moment, there runneth a long eternal lane backwards: behind us lieth an eternity. Must not whatever can run its course of all things, have already run along that lane? Must not whatever can happen of all things have already happened, resulted, and gone by? And if everything have already existed, what thinkest thou, dwarf, of This Moment? Must not this gateway also have already existed? And are not all things closely bound together in such wise that This Moment draweth all coming things after it? Consequently itself also?
Sometimes I don't know what point he's trying to make but for the most part I enjoy it.

You should honestly just leave out Zarathustra if you can't read it in German.

>>15868540
Eternal recurrence

>>15867962
Do I need to read hegel before I can get into schoppy?

>>15867962
Is dostoevsky worth reading as a prep for Nietzsche?

>>15865799
this is correct by the way

>>15866947
>apollonian [...] unrelated to his philosophy
Yes.

>>15868002
GE?

>>15869035
Sorry... GS

>>15869023
The Apollonian is integrated with the Dionysian to create the Dionysus that he contrasts to the god on the cross / the crucified in his later philosophy to create a personification of the celebration and deification of life in its ugly, wonderous, tragic totality.

Heidegger, Deleuze, Klossowski, then Nietzsche himself.

>>15863823
Where you start with him doesn't matter

>>15863823
Klossowski's Nietzsche and the Vicious Circle, Bataille's On Nietzsche, Deleuze's Nietzsche and Philosophy, and only then Nietzsche's entire works. After that, do the first three again

>>15863823
Why is it so overlooked, /lit/?

>>15869832
tell that to the kids that read Zarathustra and became edgy atheist a decade ago

>>15869839
>>15869827
Correct.

>>15869881
The famous quote refers to morality, not theology.

>>15869881
bring one before me, and i'll tell it straight to him

>>15869890
exactly, an edgeboy would start with zarathustra and say it relates to a literal dead god.

>>15869827
>existentialists
Nope.

>>15865313
I'm incredibly smart and don't tolerate ambiguity at all. Where do I start?

>>15869940
Yes.
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are proto-existentialists.

>>15865804
>start with someone else telling you what to think
No thanks bugman

>>15869957
On the Genealogy of Morality

>>15869957
>I'm incredibly smart
Clearly not.

>>15869957
The Critique of Pure Reason, where Kant goes through the antinomies of reason showing that opposite sides of the same point can each be valid

>>15869881
Tell that to the heroes of the trenches that kept a copy of it close to their hearts as they went over and beyond.

>>15869989
>>15869999
I change my mind, this guy gets it. Start with Kant, then proceed

>>15869999
Holy digits.

>>15869999
I already read that; the question was about Nietzche.

>>15870043
nah nigga, read Kant again

>>15863895
>>15865799
>>15868002
Ok, I skimmed over "The Twilight of the Idols" and the bit where he paises the book of Manu left me utterly shocked.
What the fuck

>>15870051
Nah, pseud.

>>15870062
>skimmed
That's not how philosophy works.

>>15870067
nah man, if you use words as "pseud" you clearly need to go back to Kant, only the CPR tho

>>15869962
Kierkegaard sure, you could argue that N was a proto-post-structuralist but the existentialist pov of "free agents" and "free will" and arguably "self" are antithetical to N.

>>15870051
all pseuds hate kant. fact.

Is Kaufman the definitive translation?

>>15870166
>>15870166
Yes. Tanner makes a compelling argument about whitewashing but not to the point where it makes any real difference to the wider points Neiztsche is making.

>>15870146
Kant is a reverse pleb filter.

>>15870166
finally someone asking the important questions

>>15870062
Because you are an honest reader. You’re only shocked because the Nietzsche you’ve been fed has been an extremely “sanitized” and “defanged” version. Nietzsche was not a fucking leftist.

>>15870194
Does he not have a translation for Twilight of the Idols?

>>15870210
>Nietzsche
>a fucking leftist
How is this even possible? Never took a class on him, just, you know, read him to learn. The academy today is something else man

>>15870210
Take your meds.

>>15870166
YES. I don't know where he supposedly took the edge off. Very smooth and literary. Nietzsche's style shines through.

>>15870219
My penguin copy of TOTI/TAC lists kaufmann and hollingdale but I can't say the what extent either actively translated.
Starting with link below will make it clear though.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/162022.Nietzsche

Trying to understand Nietzsche in political left-right terms, "Was he on my team???," is like trying to set a screw with a hammer.

>>15870110
Pseud is a perfectly appropriate term for you.

>>15870249
Thanks.

>>15870249
Kaufmann > Hollingdale

Example: Hollingdale totally misses the joke when Nietzsche calls Schopenhauer and Plato faggots. He has "singular" where Kaufmann has "queer"

>>15870246
I'm impressed with how many race and sex related aphorisms he let slide through with full force, given that he frequently debates Nietzsche on those topics in his own inserted footnotes. If only all translators would respect the author-translator wall.

>>15870258
Basado.
>one must be skilled in living on mountains, in seeing the wretched ephemeral babble of politics and national self-seeking beneath oneself
It's hard. Lord knows I've felt like I owed allegiance to the far right, like I couldn't let them fight without me...but politics will make you stupid. You have to let it go if you want to ascend into real insight

>>15870273
Yeah Kaufmann says he disagrees with Nietzsche but who the fuck cares Walter, giving this guy a voice in English is your great achievement, no one cares about your opinions

>>15870271
My favorite part of N is that he has his own method for refuting philosophers and at one point he basically just says " Plato was wrong because he was fugly".

>>15870269
okay Mr."incredibly smart" go and read a tainted uninterested shit-tier version of Nietzche without understanding what happens in philosophy

>>15870231
People like “Cuck Philsophy” be like
>guys Nietzsche FUCKING LOVED Jews!!

>>15870300
Kek. I have written almost exactly that next to a few of his footnotes in my own copies

Is it based? I read his books on Leibniz and Spinoza and liked them.

>>15870304
Wasnt it socrates who was ugly?

>>15870318
Same difference, we're reading about one through the other's lens.

>>15870316
a truly great interpretation of Nietzsche. But it's better to have read Nietzsche beforehand, otherwise one might get lost in what he is saying

read his last, then his first.
literally the best way to start with nietzsche.

>>15870318
Plato was an unironic chad and famed wrestler during his days.

>>15870291
Honestly political discourse just makes me anxious and scared. Would like to have a comfy mountain cabin just to be away from it...

>>15863823
What's with all the Nietzsche-posters recently? Is it just because school's out?

>>15870358
School has been out since the end of April, unless you're a highschooler and in that case, you're in violation of rule 2.

>>15870363
That's what I mean; a significant number of Nietzsche-posters are underage teenagers. Is that the reason for the uptick or is there something else that caused it?

>>15870386
When was the board free of nietzscheposting?

>>15870305
I'm sorry my big brain made you feel so insecure, pseud.

>>15870313
forget working in the academy, say you just want a graduate degree to flex. how do you even fill space on the page to get through? they breathe lies there. I guess you could just go into your Ph.D program thinking, here goes a six year Sokal hoax

>>15870386
>shitting on Nietzsche
Giving yourself away as a brainlet. Every. Single. Time.

>>15870666
Satanic trips of truth.

>>15870666
He's right, Nietzcheposters are the cancer of this board and you're most likely a retarded pseud who should kill himself. If Nietzche retards stuck to fiction, pepe memes, and feel posts, normal people could actually discuss Nietzsche instead of always having to hide these threads.

>>15870718
"where do I start?" is hardly a pseud post. Sperging out every time someone mentions N is.

>>15863823
what did he mean by this

>Contentment preserves one even from catching cold. Has a woman who knew that she was well-dressed ever caught cold?—No, not even when she had scarcely a rag to her back.

The gay science is supposed to be his clearest summary of his ideas, genealogy of morals for his perspective on slave mentality, then I don't know

>>15870718
The amount of projection and setheeing within this post.

>>15869843
Maxfield Parrish is an odd choice for Nietzsche.

>>15863823
The Birth Of Tragedy. Nietzsche's one of the ones best read chronologically.

>>15870304
It was Socrates in Twilight of The Idols.

>>15873251
>best read chronologically.
Doesn't this apply to all philosophers?

>>15873297
I don't think it would apply to Marx

Does anyone know if pic related is actually good? I see it posted quite often and I've been considering picking up a copy. Should I read it first or just jump straight into primary works?

>>15873361
>if pic related is actually good?
It's good.

>>15863823
Honestly, just start with Junger. Some of Nietzsche's best ideas can be conveyed through him and, with the exception of Zarathustra, he is more interesting to read.

>kaufmann
this board is infested with reddit

>>15873361
>Zarathustra
>Twilight of the Idols
>The Antichrist
>trans. Kaufmann
best single volume of Nietzsche there is. Basic Writings (Modern Library) is close for having Genealogy and BGE.

Anti-Kaufmann posters are pseuds

>>15873563
>this board is infested with reddit
Yes, and?

>>15873542
I just read Eumeswil and it was fantastic. Is his earlier work actually worth reading? I don't think you can top Eumeswil.

>>15873563
It's "infested" with /lit/
Seems the old serious posters of /lit/ must have spread it there.
I wouldn't know. I'm going on your little observation, re**itor.

>>15873624
God I love Basic Writings, it's what got me into philosophy.

>>15873673
It's all good. Storm of Steel has some great prose, The Glass Bees is great science fiction, and On Marble Cliffs is also great if you can find a copy under 100 dollars (or just read german).