/lit/ - Literature

cuck

>>15839044
Just do the prayers and rituals with a mindset of
>I could have been wrong about this so let's see

>>15839057
The benefits of faith come only with full commitment

Contemplate the big bang.
Can something come from nothing?
Does mind exist?
Where was mind before life on earth?

>>15839104
Everything happens in stages. You can't honestly expect anon to go from
>yeah is all chemicals bro
To
>lord and saviour Jesus Christ who art in Heaven blablabla
In one step.

>>15839124
Big Bang could've been an explosion of supernovae that always existed - in the same way as God always existed
>>15839129
Just believing in God will do, my beliefs don't have to fit any particular religion. Also what are the extra steps?

>>15839161
Maybe platonic "prime mover" arguments are your type. Personally I'm a polytheist and I like my forces of nature to be anthropomorphic. Ultimately it comes down to a matter of representation.

>>15839172
I'm retarded. Forgot to mention that pantheism won't make it for me, because I would still feel left alone (unless I have wrong understanding of pantheism). Also could you elaborate on your polytheism?

>>15839308
I understand pantheism as meaning simply
>all gods exist
It serves me as a metaphysical framework that states that God/Source/Primewhatever exists within every being. The divine spark.

>polytheism
It's a sort of satanism. Not in the le epic emo edgelord anti-christ way like LaVeyans do it, but rather conceptually. Satan means adversary and from my understanding life is generally very adversarial in nature. As for my polytheism per se it's a whole can of worms, but the gist is that these are all thoughtforms that can be interacted with. I prefer polytheism over monotheism (specifically abrahamic monotheism) because polytheism doesn't concern itself with mental gymnastics about how god is good and all-powerful and yet blablabla on the one hand, and on the other hand I personally believe that yhwhism and krishnaism (to name two) are basically them playing the game of metaphysical monopoly. it's real to you if you believe it to be and that's what they're banking on, on the devotion of both their followers and detractors

I went from atheism in my early teens, to agnosticism in my later teens, to something-resembling gnosticism now. A lot of it ultimately comes down anyhow to how you view and wish to view life. If you like things to be neat and tidy monotheism is a good answer because it comes down to a binary choice, which is then a unitary choice because obviously you choose the good. If you like things to be more complex polytheism is a good answer because it allows for different factions and gives greater agency to each being. Ultimately I think it's simply a question of what serves you best.

I can elaborate if you want and I hope I don't come across as too schizo.

>>15839547
>Gnosticism
Please kys

>>15839044
are you serious? or baiting?

>>15839568
>something-resembling gnosticism
You mongoloid. The world isn't evil. Quite the opposite, it's fucking fun as shit.

>>15839547
>all gods exist
ehh kinda retarded and also not possible
>>15839571
not baiting

>>15839582
>not possible
Says who? What do you think pantheism means bro?

>>15839547
>all gods exist
they exclude each other. We cannot interpret religions as different interpretations of the same being, they vary too much

>>15839599
But we do, and that being is called the Cosmos.
>they exclude each other
How is that? Shiva can be just as real as Iblis and Aphrodite.

>>15839589
I think it means that substance/universe is God, not that all beliefs in different Gods that exclude each other are all real

>>15839612
But how do they exclude each other?

>>15839582
don't believe anything. trust only your own eyes, your own perception. the god people talk about is just hallucination, i.e. idea, it exists only while people talk and read.

the Power behind everything which was called God by guys like Christ, Krishna, me, does indeed exist and is absolute amazing and terrible to witness. Guys like Castaneda, Buddha intentionally did not use word God, because people would think of it as something which can be influenced. If you want to live properly take idea in your head that God does not exist, it is dead, whatever people did, do and will do ever is absolutely peoples responsibility, praying to God is absolutely useless idiocy, apart from that when people complain to imaginary friends they don't bother real people, and that is a good side of mainstream religions. instead of "fuck off" and "take meds" you say "pray to jesus".

Any questions?

>>15839610
>How is that? Shiva can be just as real as Iblis and Aphrodite.
This is just an example. In my opinion a religion that states that there is single God who gives salvation and there is no salvation apart from him cannot be claimed to describe the same order as religion that claims that there is salvation apart from it or that there is no salvation whatsoever. It's retarded to believe that all religions are similar to that extent that all can be true. Also that would mean that they are right apart from the belief that they are the only true religion (eg most o Christianity). Why would they be right about everything else except this thing?

>>15839642
The whole point is that i don't want to believe that because it's not convenient and not healthy

>>15839044
everything could go wrong :)
just go

>>15839657
Ah I see. I didn't claim that all religions are right. Nor that the beings they worship are truthful about their claims. Just that the beings they worship exist in some fashion. As I stated later in that post, I personally believe that particularly monotheist religions (but also all religions and all beings to some extent to be fair) play a game of domination.
>Why would they be right about everything else except this thing?
I don't think they are. I think the lot of them are disingenuous if they are meant to be taken metaphorically, and full of shit if they're meant to be taken literally. The only way in which all religions are true is if subjective experience of the individual reigns supreme. As in, a muslim who fervently believes that non-believers will go to hell will ultimately experience a reality where that happens. Same with christians, hellenists, atheists who believe in annihilation, etc.

You're buying into a false premise. Within countries that are more secular like the nordic countries, religious people are no happier than non-religious people. The disparity in happiness only seems to happen when there's pressure to conform to the religious norm. Basically, instead of deluding yourself, try not being a cuck who's worried about pleasing retards who believe in the tooth fairy. Btw, atheists are generally happier than agnostics.

>>15839044
Pic Related changed my life.

It’s a medium-sized occult book describing something called “The Astral Plane” , which is essentially the spirit realm. The book goes in-depth on every detail of this mystical place, describing the multiple layers (believed 12 in total), the inhabitants of these layers, and where people will go when they die. Apparently, the bottom-most layers are what the abrahamists call “hell” with the top being the godhead. Whichever layer you end up in after you die however, it is not permanent. You can theoretically go up and down the ladder, so to speak. As you climb the latter, you will notice that each layer has a higher consciousness than the last. For example, in the 5th dimension, it is recorded that you can see in complete 360degree angles in all directions rather than our limited physical sight. Theoretically, once you reach the top layers (8-12), you have ascended to the point where you have practically become a god. I could go on and on about the intricacies, but I would really prefer it if you read the book yourself.

Note: The Astral Plane is 100% real, and once you commit to its research, it is no longer possible to ever go back to a state of non-belief. It is possible to visit these realms by a technique called astral projection, where you leave your physical body. By going there, you can easily communicate with spirits (including dead family members), demons, and angels. That is how these things were documented in the first place.

>>15839674
your life is yours man, and only yours.

>>15839708
Also, I’ve found that no single faith is correct. The study of magic, occultism, and life after death is a science and like any science, we haven’t figured it all out yet. If you want an objective world-view, then you won’t find one unless you’re prepared to live a lie.

>>15839708
kek. Why is this true in your opinion? Based on OOBE which you call "astral projection"? You realize that people have all sorts of experiences during oobe no matter how they induced it. I might consider it if everyone who experienced oobe visited this place but that is simply not true.

>>15839044
Just define God. If, by definition, God is a supreme being above everything, that means God is above the laws of logic or knowledge. This gives us a possibilty to think that God can create a paradox. So it means he can make a paradox of existence. That means - God exists even if he does not, because God can do *everything*, even if it is seems illogical.

If, by definition, God is not so supreme then I guess you should try to come to God in a way that is not paradox, or continue not believing.

>>15839738
>this place
It's a big place

>>15839728
I want to believe something but cannot convince myself to anything so I asked anons to convince me. If I started acting like I was for example christian right now it would've felt as if I was living a lie, therefore I wouldn't get any benefits of believing in God

>>15839755
A place that in any way resembles what was described in this book. People can experience something that has literally nothing in common with it.

>>15839738
>You realize that people have all sorts of experiences during oobe no matter how they induced it.
There is an entire universe out there with millions of life-forms and billions of possibilities. Why would everyone have the same experience? Either way, there is a big difference between a random who has an accidental OOBE, and an advanced practitioner who actually knows how to navigate the place.

This book was written by an actual occult society which set out to document their findings, and then relay that information to new students.

>Why is this true in your opinion?
I have been there, and I have seen the entities. This is not a faith based practice. It’s all real.

>>15839806
>It is possible to visit these realms by a technique called astral projection, where you leave your physical body. By going there, you can easily communicate with spirits (including dead family members), demons, and angels. That is how these things were documented in the first place.

>There is an entire universe out there with millions of life-forms and billions of possibilities. Why would everyone have the same experience?

Then what makes this real? Why only this vision during oobe is real?

> Either way, there is a big difference between a random who has an accidental OOBE, and an advanced practitioner who actually knows how to navigate the place.

By advanced practitioner you mean someone who spent enough of their time reading/talking about this concept so that during actual oobe they see something that resembles it? If by an advanced practitioner you mean someone who experienced a lot of oobes then just read trip reports on any psychedelics forum and you'll see that experienced people encounter things that don't resemble this "Astral Plane" whatsoever

>>15839617
>>15839657

>>15840008
>>15839700

bump

>>15839700
This man just believes we are in the Shin Megami Tensei universes.

>>15840086
I don't know what that is and I don't watch anime.

>>15839758
believe in yourself. you are something.

>>15840095
It's just a videogame universe where many gods exist, and they act in a way similar to what you describe. I will leave now.

>>15839707
How do you measure happiness

>>15839044
When you see something really paranormal, you change your point of view. Some will never see those. So it's better for them to stay agnostic i guess.

>>15839707
I don't worry about pleasing anyone, I want to do it for myself. Also it's not a false premise, I know that it would work for me
>Btw, atheists are generally happier than agnostics.
source: trust me dude

Literally just start reading the Bible, it worked for me

>>15840615
>just indoctrinate yourself bro

>>15840634
That's my point retard. I want to literally take the blue pill and live a happy life believing a convenient lie, but cannot make myself swallow the pill so I'm asking you anons for help

>>15840672
>a convenient lie
Anytime I run into somebody who doesn’t believe in anything supernatural, I actually laugh out loud. I literally can’t comprehend going through life without experiencing anything paranormal it happens so often, it’s amazing to think that there are actually people who have never experienced these things.

>>15839949
>By advanced practitioner you mean someone who spent enough of their time reading/talking about this concept so that during actual oobe they see something that resembles it?
No, I mean people who regularly visit the spirit realm and communicate with entities. But with some entities, researching them can attract them.

>it? If by an advanced practitioner you mean someone who experienced a lot of oobes then just read trip reports on any psychedelics forum and you'll see that experienced people encounter things that don't resemble this "Astral Plane" whatsoever
Psychedelic Drugs do not help with spirituality as much as you think. You need to do these things sober to truly master them.

>>15839044
>>15839044
The Kalam Cosmological Argument shows that it’s more reasonable to believe in a God that seems very similar to the Abrahamic God. From there you compare religions and see that Christianity is most prophesied and most difficult to have been faked, especially with its historical evidence surrounding Jesus and his resurrection and the ensuing growth of Christianity; that Christianity has the most unique and most reasonable message, that is, works cannot save us, as “no man is good,” and that faith alone saves. By being a good Christian, your faith will save you, but if other religions are true, then your works will save you. It’s such a perfect strategy that it seems as though God is giving you the hint, but only to those who have actually investigated the matter. It is reasonable to believe in a God, it is reasonable to be a Christian.

Also, Pascal defended Christianity in Pensées (the same book containing the wager). And it in no way contradicts scripture, as it says many times that you should seek God in order to find him. The wager doesn’t grant you faith, but preceded and leads to faith.

>>15840871
>a convenient lie
I consider claiming that you know if there is God a convenient lie, not a belief that God exists
>But with some entities, researching them can attract them.
kek
>Psychedelic Drugs do not help with spirituality as much as you think. You need to do these things sober to truly master them.
of course it's harder to do oobe when you're sober, I mentioned psychedelics forums as an example sources where you can read about experienced people not encountering any of you "Astral Plane" bullshit

Serious inquiry here.
How does one live in the same world as everyone else, see and experience the same things like everyone else and not be critically aware of some great force's hand at work?
If you want to vie against or abuse that power that's a different hill to climb, but how do we live in such a predictably unpredictable, coincidental, measurably patterned world and go "naw, it's probably like just nothing".
Every society of mankind has maintained this belief. If you want to call it karma or mother nature or entropy, that's your business, but how can you deny the extremely obvious undercurrent which has ran through our existence for 10,000 years?
I don't mean to be dismissive, and if you need to separate it from a Abrahamic god, fine, but how does one not see the strings?

>>15840967
It’s a sin thing.

James 4:6-8
>But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
>Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
>Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
>Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
>Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
>But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:18-20
>Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
>For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
>And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Proverbs 1:7
>The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

1 Corinthians 1:27
>But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;

Ephesians 4:18
>Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart

Proverbs 3:5
>Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

Matthew 5:8
>Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

>>15840932
>Kalam cosmological argument
>Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
retarded and untrue a priori

>>15840967
You can claim that everything is coincidence.
>how do we live in such a predictably unpredictable, coincidental, measurably patterned world and go "naw, it's probably like just nothing".
What exactly do you mean? Also human brain by it's nature seeks patterns. It's a tendency all people have and schizos have it a bit stronger. Even if there is an order you cannot objectively judge reality because of the way your brain works

Read Heidegger.

>>15839547
Polytheism is literally a religion with multiple gods what. Last time I checked Buddhists dont worship satan.

>>15840964
>I consider claiming that you know if there is God a convenient lie, not a belief that God exists
But I don’t know if god exists. I have only claimed to know that an afterlife exists.

>of course it's harder to do oobe when you're sober, I mentioned psychedelics forums as an example sources where you can read about experienced people not encountering any of you "Astral Plane" bullshit
First of all, there are plenty of psychedelic users who claim to visit the astral plane so I don’t know where you’re coming up with that. Second of all, you can never really tell whether what you’re seeing is real or whether you’re just tripping.

>>15841092
I mean that life is nothing more than an unending number of dominos falling against each other and we are constantly pushed, prodded and outright dragged to exactly where we need to be when we need to be there.
In my experience it's like this for everyone. We are all constantly subjected to the consequences of our actions, whether those consequences are doled out legally, naturally or internally.

>>15839044
Belief in God can never be completely rational, it will always require a leap of faith. You should read Fear And Trembling, by Søren Kierkegaard.

>>15841211
>exactly where we need to be when we need to be there.
?
>We are all constantly subjected to the consequences of our actions, whether those consequences are doled out legally, naturally or internally.
Then there's the question of free will. If universe has it's eternal rules and everything happens in the frame of this rules and is caused by everything that happened before then theoretically we could take any moment on a timeline and if we knew all laws of physics and were able to analyze the data in this specific moment we would know everything about every moment on the timeline. If what we do can be 100% predicted then do we have free will?

>>15841020
less absurd than believing things can come into existence without a cause

>>15841262
Ok then on what basis do I choose in which God to believe and whether to believe or not? If every possibility is equally probable

>>15840672
man, you start from the wrong end. what's your real problem? what are you afraid of?

>>15841277
Kek you're right and I'm retarded. I literally misunderstood the a priori. Then we have to claim that God is the only thing that has no cause, but also is it possible that we do not know enough about substance to tell if it's possible that the supernovae which exploded also had no cause and was eternal?

>>15841282
>If every possibility is equally probable
that’s not what he said. You can use reason to compare religions but you can’t use reason to prove (or disprove) the existence of God.

>>15841282
man, brother, why do you need to believe at all? get rid of the word "believe". your life, your decisions are right before your eyes.

>>15841300
My real problem is that I feel extremely uncomfortable with not knowing and not being arrogant enough to pretend that i know. Therefore I want someone to convince me to something, and then I would be at peace having something I would genuinely believe in

>>15841319
If there is no evidence against existence of God and no evidence of existence of God, then both lack of God and all his interpretations are equally probable

>>15841282
You must've read that book pretty quickly.
Anyway, they really aren't equally likely, Pagan religions which literally assert the existence of magic men who live on mountains are in no way equally likely when compared with the current major world faiths.
Of the main faiths, my view is that Christianity being orthodoxic, asking you only to have faith and do good things in life, makes a far stronger argument than most of the other orthopraxic religions, demanding adherence to arbitrary codes of conduct.
>>15841319
This anon is talking sense.

>>15841390
>Anyway, they really aren't equally likely, Pagan religions which literally assert the existence of magic men who live on mountains are in no way equally likely when compared with the current major world faiths.
Of the main faiths, my view is that Christianity being orthodoxic, asking you only to have faith and do good things in life, makes a far stronger argument than most of the other orthopraxic religions, demanding adherence to arbitrary codes of conduct.
Makes sense, I'll read that book and I hope it'll give me faith. Thanks anon

>>15841426
No problem anon, if you want further recommendations then CS Lewis' book Mere Christianity is an excellent work. I hope you find God somewhere, in the pages of these books or otherwise.

>>15841361
okay, may be you start asking questions instead of expecting us to answer them for you randomly.
note: a word has as many meanings as people using it. that's in case you ask if Blahblah exists.

>>15841309
an infinite past is absurd. Time should have never reached the present moment if that were the case. Craig talks about potential infinites and actual infinites. The potential infinite can exist, such as saying the future is potentially infinite. But the collection of time will never BE infinite, unlike an infinite past. Just as you could not reverse time and exhaust all moments in the infinite past, so they also could not have been exhausted in the forward direction. Therefore the universe began to exist.

>>15841381
there IS evidence of an eternal, creative, personal, God found in Craig’s cosmological argument. There is historical evidence that supports Jesus rising from the dead. There are fulfilled prophecies, and there are personal experiences (proof for the one who experiences it). This isn’t an absence of proof we’re working with. The best way to explain all of these things is to believe that God exists and Jesus truly was the messiah. Otherwise you’re just left with a weak “I don’t know.”

>>15841515
dead simply means NPC. "let dead bury their dead". people who cannot laugh, smile, cry, dance, love.

>>15841496
>an infinite past is absurd. Time should have never reached the present moment if that were the case
But did God have a start?

>>15841625
God is beyond time. It makes more sense for God or be eternal than the universe for that reason. That is why we can’t simply say “well what if the universe is eternal like God?” as Sagan did

>>15839044
The virgin agnostic vs the Chad Gnostic

>>15839571
Dilate

>>15841634
Makes sense. Thanks for your answers, this thread gave me some actual useful info, I'll read more about the concept of infinite timeline to take a final stand on existence of God

>>15841671
What do you mean?

>>15839044
The most comprehensive doctrine is the Mormon doctrine. Everything else is just a branch of Catholicism and is very samey and eludes reason. Mormon history is wack but if you just focus on core doctrine and aren’t worried about whether or not the Book of Mormon is factually accurate than its the best option.

They also use the King James Version of the Bible and have some of the most comprehensive study guides For it.

If you are Interested mainly in the life of Christ and want a fresh take tan read Jesus The Christ by this apostle named James Talmage. Dude knew what he was talking about and compiles the life of Jesus from all 4 gospels chronologically.

It’s infused with Mormon doctrine.

I found it to be the best book I’ve ever read on the study of the life of Christ.

i´m a non-materialist atheist and i evoke 4th dimensional beings (a.k.a demons) on a daily basis, this path is for self-improvement and for achieving your true will in life, you can start here:

https://vkjehannum.wordpress.com/ritualsforbeginners/

>>15841832
if you want to make more sense of it just read the book Flatland

>>15841515
How do we go from kalam argument to assuming that the God who created the universe is the Christian God? We do not know why he created the universe and if he cares about anything that's happening in it

>>15839044
Check out these guys for a better understanding:
>Schopenhauer's pessimism (not the most important one, but might help)
>Neitzsche's nihilism, overcoming said nihilism and the theory of the übermensch (very important)
>Sam Harris on free will (optional, but very interesting)
>Stoic philosophers like Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius (extremely helpful)
>the stories about Diogenes the Cynic, aka the Chaddest Philosopher of All Time (advanced stuff)

There you go. Cast aside the false gods and embrace true wisdom and virtue.

>>15842181
I'm becoming convinced by the Kalam argument but I'm far from taking final stand

>>15839044
Read the gita.