/lit/ - Literature

>>15805443
After the secod world war, when the allies scrubed any manuals and art promoting fitness in body and mind, having seen the effects upon even a starved or culled population. Now we get feed sugars and green insekt-slime while only being allowed to watch unproblemtic shitcoms which on't overburden the intelliectually weak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLXcIlmGNI

In your case and the case of people like you, reading books and working out is never going to be anything more than a convenient, self-aggrandizing excuse to avoid facing the world. And Socrates never said that.

>>15805468
post body

>>15805499
Check the archives

>>15805468
He did. Please refer to Xenophon, Memoribilia, book 3 chapter 12.

>>15805839
They're literally not the same quotations

>>15805443
I am in pretty good shape. I would fuck up diogenes for sure

>>15805860
Do you have no reading comprehension?

'Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.' (trs. E.C. Marchant)

Do you not see that OP's quote is just a much looser translation of this passage? If you take issue with the use of the word amateur, it's likely just a very liberal translation of ἰδιώτης and ἰδιωτικῶς ἔχειν (idiotys, idiotys echein: to be ignorant / a layman in ahtletic affairs / training)

>>15805443
Boomers

>>15805867
Considering everyone back then was a fucking midget most of us would.

>>15805443
I barely lift but I train boxing and wrestling and I have shit on tons of lifters who think that having muscles means you can fight, but they are usually uncoordinated buffoons

>>15805839
>>15805929
Absolutely basado, anon.

>>15805935
>tfw when Homer said Achilles was really tall they probably meant he was 5ft 7.
>>15805941
Yeah MMA is proof that you can't judge by body type at all.

>>15805929
FUCKING BASED

>>15805929
It's not really a liberal translation. Idiotes isn't just an amateur (a reasonable translation in this case), it's also a "private citizen" which was seen as antidemocratic.
Socrates/Xenophon is making a political point which would contain suggestions that one is not an adult, basically a woman, probably a traitor, unfit to vote, and worse than a faggot Spartan. The tripfag you're talking to is probably a lot of those things too.
However translating as "amateur" is not really liberal in context. It strips the Greek connotations of idiot, but doesn't sacrifice the main meaning. A liberal translation would probably include more of the political context, and obscure the contrast of practising or not practising any art.

>>15805987
>Idiotes
Imagine I made the verbs agree after this

>>15805929
>Do you have no reading comprehension?

"It is also shameful due to neglect to grow old before seeing oneself in the most beautiful (kallistos) and strongest bodily state one might attain. But it is not possible for one who is neglectful to see these things, for they do not want to come to pass spontaneously" (Bonnette)

>Do you not see that OP's quote is just a much looser translation of this passage?
So.... literally not the same thing, which is what I said?

Even if I wanted to allow you to furiously move the goalposts to prove the point you want to make, I could simply point out that strictly speaking we should be attributing the quote to Xenophon as author and not Socrates as mouth-piece, firstly, and secondly, that if you want to get into reading comprehension then maybe we should be looking at the disconnect between the role of the body and military training for the Greek citizen, "politicized" exercise, and the modern disaffected young man's attempt at flight from reality through the equivalent of physical self help encapsulated through watered-down ditties that you're trying to misattribute to a philosopher concerned with something much greater.

>>15806054
>tripfag can't even admit he might be wrong
Why are you giving that anon a more liberal translation as a defence?

>>15805468
What should we do to face the world then?

>>15806125
post with a trip on 4chan

>>15806133
I'm serious. Not much of a warrior culture in the states.

I have started running recently. Slowly but steadily my endurance is getting better. It's a nice feeling; I highly recommend physical activity.

>>15806054
Stop embarrassing yourself. I took issue with, and only with your ignorant denial of the attribution of the quote to Socrates. I'm not the one moving goalposts. Your feeble attempt to now call it a quote by Xenophon and not Socrates just serves to further elucidate that 1) you can see that both the quote in the OP and our more academic variants are translations of the passage of the Memoribilia, which I cited and you denied; 2) you refuse to acknowledge that you were either ignorant of this source or made an error. Stop posturing and concede.

>>15806054
dude you have been completely ass blasted by >>15806162

>>15806136
Wdym? US is obsessed with guns

>>15806162
fucking kek, im gonna screengrab this guys trip and remember you btfoing him every time I see it

>>15805443
When physical fitness turned from the optimal means to achieve certain ends, to a meme ideal inherited from past usefulness, cultivated purely for the looks. You will not run faster than a machine. You will not lift more than a machine. Unless you're bottom-class, you will not find yourself without a machine. Your arms and legs being more "you" is just a meme. They're tools to you, like the machine. The machine is superior, and it is futile to invest in dead ends.

Only the human mind still excels the machine in creativity, and the human body should primarily serve its longevity and optimize the efficiency of its upkeep.

>>15806204
That isn't a warrior culture.

>>15805941
Protip: weapons

>>15805839
>>15805929
Another tripfag BTFOed

>>15806162
> denial of the attribution of the quote to Socrates
And I'm right, Socrates never said it. You can bitch and moan about whether there are more or less liberal translations all you want but you can't establish to me that's what Socrates said. You can say that it's what Xenophon said, (which wouldn't be what OP image says either) or you supply what you think is a more accurate reading, but the quote as stated in OP image is not what Socrates said.

I don't know what to tell you man, you thought you were trying to be clever, take the L.

And the sad thing is, you might have had some sort of ground to stand on if you had not been desperate to one-up me and shown some humility from the start by qualifying what you said with e.g. "yes, Socrates never said that, but he said something equivalent" or by pointing to the passage and saying "you're absolutely right D&E, the quote as stated in OP image is not capable of being literally assigned to either Socrates or Xenophon, and I appreciate that you're trying to draw attention to the fact that its interpretation as such is misleading when you look at the text and more accurate attributions, it's a good thing I qualified what I said before jumping on your post".

But nope, you really dropped the ball kiddo

>>15805443
I eat well and enjoy walks, but I definitely don't set aside time just to improve my body.

>>15806370
>>15806415

I cannot force your head out your ass if that is where you want to keep it. Unlike Plato, Xenophon was more interested in defending Socrates and his views than espousing his own philosophy. Any exegesis of this passage will duly ascribe this emphasis on physical improvement as quintessentially Socratic. 'To know one's self, then, is primarily to attend to one's self- both in body and in mind; to care for one's self or keep in training, not to let one's self run down-the phrase is applied to men who, like Alcibiades, deteriorated in character after parting company with Socrates' (Bosanquet). I see why you feel compelled to move the goalposts. As you initially placed them, they were not in your favour. Even if I were to grant you that Xenophon is indeed the writer of this account, it is still the literally character of Socrates, as an accurate representation of the historical Socrates, to whom these words are attributed to.

Your brittle ego might tell you that you are right, but all state of affairs announce that you are wrong. Concede.

>>15805443
post body. with time stamp

>>15806415
>tripfag BTFOed

you love to see it

>>15805443
I think it's an American meme about high school groups. Public schools in England have an emphasis on sport and buggery as team building exercises equal to droning out amo amare amavi amatum until quite recently afaik

>>15806136
you should at least conceal carry for if a jogger tries to rob you, police take time to arrive and you'll have to rely on his mercy while you wait if you can't defend yourself. have a good enough job to support a family (your eventual wife will still probably have to work in this economy but better if its only part time) and be in good enough shape to keep up with your eventual children until theyre grown up.

I enjoy Lindy walks and some martial arts postures, but lifting heavy things and building muscle doesn't have much use in my life. It would require eating more food which is already a chore. Studies show that low calorie diets lead to long healthy lives, so I prefer to eat little and enjoy the benefits of intermittent fasting.

>>15808622
yeah, I don't think English schools really have "groups/cliques" like american schools do

>>15806267
>t.

>>15808691
>low calorie diets lead to long healthy lives
the vast majority of people who eat higher calorie diets don't exercise, of course they're going to be less healthy. at the very least its good to do cardio and calisthenics.

>>15806415
Even butterfag hasnt been embarrassed this badly, consider suicide lmao. Better yet, consider doing a pushup you flabby pseud

>>15806415
Actually ssething, just concede my friend and take a look internally for the reason behind why you're seething. Unironically do this, face your cognitive dissonance anon; you'll be better for it

>>15806267
i don't know if this is very sneaky b8, or if you are just a tard

>>15805443
only insecure faggots care about muh body aesthetics. even after having an anesthetized(which 70% of gymcel don't have) fat body your only option of fashion is sexcore, which is literal meme, a laughing stock for fashion community. so other than larping on beach or in your weight lifting homosexual sweaty rat holes gymcels look like cavemen in the civilization.
just fuck off to to your shithole of a board you fat pigs

>>15805443
Augustine introduced the inner/outer distinction into Western thought.

>>15805443
/fitlit/ checking in

I just finished reading Jung's Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious and can bench 3pl8

If one was as smart as they'd like to believe, they'd do some form of consistent and regular exercise. If one was as fit as they'd like to believe, they'd steel their attention span with reading. Sheeit, I read the ludicrously dense Supertraining and am definitely better for it. Got me to start doing cardio.

>>15808622
Has this changed? I don't know about Eton and the likes but inter-house sports rivalries or the big rugby/hockey/cricket fixtures against the school rivals and competitors are still a fairly stable part of public school culture are they not? Guess it'll all be a thing of the past with Corona though, at least for a period

>>15810130
I meant the teaching Latin part.

>>15806415
The intellectual dishonesty is staggering. Just admit you're out of your league.

>>15805443
>when and why did physical fitness and philosphophy/intellectualism become two seperate and, in the case of modern stereotypes, mutually exclusive endevours?

1. Philosophy, and intellectualism, are two mutually exclusive things --the former is ontological fullness through gnosis, the latter is an euphemism for snobbery.

2. Circa eighteenth century with the rise of Illuminism, which entailed hyperintellectual implosion, severing ontological remembrance, and occluding the capability to attain to the exalted image of Spirit via the body.

>Does /lit/ keep themselves fit?
Yes.

Incidentally: lifting "weights" in incremental manner is pessimal hypertrophic exercise that, beyond producing a surrogate sense of achievement within oneself, and/or a superficial impression within superfluous individuals, only serves to occlude freedom of motion within one's body, thereby, ultimately, and in recursive manner, pessimally effecting one's psykhe; the only aerobic and anaerobic exercises that one needs to practice regularly in order to optimally free, maintain alignment within, and build firmness of, the body, are those of: running, stretching, and corebased strengthening, in that order of importance, and in whatever manner one finds optimal for oneself.

Restore the purity, and freedom, of the child body, stop hastening its decay.

>"Whoever has come to know the world has discovered the body, and whoever has discovered the body, of that one the world is not worthy."
-- Jesus Christ, The Gospel of Thomas.

>>15805443
>when and why did physical fitness and philosphophy/intellectualism become two seperate and, in the case of modern stereotypes, mutually exclusive endevours?

1. Philosophy, and intellectualism, are two mutually exclusive things --the former is ontological fullness through gnosis, the latter is an euphemism for snobbery.

2. Circa eighteenth century with the rise of Illuminism, which entailed hyperintellectual implosion, severing ontological remembrance, and occluding the capability to attain to the exalted image of Spirit via the body.

>Does /lit/ keep themselves fit?
Yes.

Incidentally: lifting "weights" in incremental manner is pessimal hypertrophic exercise which, beyond producing a surrogate sense of achievement within oneself, and/or a superficial impression within superfluous individuals, only serves to occlude freedom of motion within one's body, thereby, ultimately, and in recursive manner, pessimally effecting one's psykhe; the only aerobic and anaerobic exercises that one needs to practice regularly in order to optimally free, maintain alignment within, and build firmness of, the body, are those of: running, stretching, and corebased strengthening, in that order of importance, and in whatever manner one finds optimal for oneself.

Restore the purity, and freedom, of the child body, stop hastening its decay.

>"Whoever has come to know the world has discovered the body, and whoever has discovered the body, of that one the world is not worthy."
-- Jesus Christ, The Gospel of Thomas.

>>15812557
If you're gonna talk shit about lifting you have to post body or literally nobody on earth has any reason to care about anything you have to say.

>>15805443
>'post body'

>>15812577
If you cannot synthesize truth without physical "evidence" being provided to you from another, your reason is deficient.

>>15805443
As soon as societies reach a point where there was an upper class of people who did not have to do any form of manual labor

Once you don't have to grow your own food, prepare any of your meals, clean your clothes or home, and regularly boss around the people who do that for you, then you've got plenty of time to think. How can I justify my position over the people keeping me alive? OBVIOUSLY, it's because I'm the intellectual and moral superior to those lower sorts who are fit only to labor in the fields.

It's also why there's no concerted effort among the wealthy to get fit until the modern age, when there's machines doing most of the hardest work and the greatest luxury is time to waste working out.

The only exceptions are those times when the upper crust were also the people going out and doing dangerous work as well, explorers, military men commanding on the front lines as opposed to commanding from a map room back behind the lines, engineering back when the most capable worker was the guy who started the company, then being out of shape was a sign of laziness instead of wealth

>>15812621
post body