/lit/ - Literature

>>15776541
Because God is bad

>>15776541
Because your uncle fingered you.

>>15776541
Eve ate apple.

>>15776541
He make you learn

>>15776541
Get to the wikipedia, anon. No more spoon feeding stupid philosophy that can be learned with a simple google search. You guys are shitting on our literature board with this bs.

>>15776541
>"God lets the oppositional will of the ground operate in order that might be which love unifies and subordinates itself to for the glorification of the Absolute. The will of love stands about the will of the ground and this predominance, this eternal decidedness, the love for itself as the essence of being in general, this decidedness is the innermost core of absolute freedom."

As Plato said, being exists by friendship with itself.

>>15776553
Why can't learn but no bad thing

>>15776548
if god good, why poison apple?
if god good, why make Eve?

>>15776572
Then how you know what bad

>>15776541
>"God lets the oppositional will of the ground operate in order that might be which love unifies and subordinates itself to for the glorification of the Absolute. The will of love stands about the will of the ground and this predominance, this eternal decidedness, the love for itself as the essence of being in general, this decidedness is the innermost core of absolute freedom."
>"Philosophy will not be able to effect an immediate transformation of the present condition of the world. This is not only true of philosophy, but of all merely human thought and endeavor. Only a god can save us. The sole possibility that is left for us is to prepare a sort of readiness, through thinking and poeticizing, for the appearance of the god or for the absence of the god in the time of foundering [Untergang] for in the face of the god who is absent, we founder. Only a God Can Save Us."
>"For us contemporaries the greatness of what is to be thought is too great. Perhaps we might bring ourselves to build a narrow and not far reaching footpath as a passageway."

- Heidegger

As Plato said, being exists through friendship with itself.

Because, if God removed all evil thing in this world, liberty would be compromised in the process. And God gave Adan and Eve with liberty so they could act upon their own will.

>>15776588
why bad at all

>>15776541
God doesn't exist brainlets

If God good, why thing?

>>15776588
if god can do all thing, how he can not make good learn happen with no bad

>>15776673
for omnipotence is paradox

>>15776680
then god not the end great thing

>>15776700
then what?

>>15776710
GOD NOT GOD

>>15776541
based

>>15776541
Just define “bad”, bro

>>15776573
Unbelievably baste post

>>15776541
so you learn

>>15776641
*cricket noises*

>>15776573
Bad and good don't exist, or poisoning the apple isn't bad

>>15776641
what is bad, not according to your finite, evolution-produced idea of it

>>15776673
Because that thing was not bad in the first place. Just you judging something you can't understand

>>15776734
>God not god
then what?

>>15776780
Euthyphro's dilemma has nothing to do with Christianity.

>whence cometh evil
What is evil? Is there a god of evil, or an evil god? Good and bad just lose their meaning by disassociation with your simplistic, utilitarian good=pleasure pain=bad view (then again, coming from Epicurus, it's not surprising)

>>15776641
Because no bad mean only God exist.
Creation require separation from God. Which is other term for evil.

>>15776541
evil is no good, not anti-good
there is no anti-food, simply hunger

>>15777089
rippen

>>15777098
why separate from God
it's so lonely out here

>>15776541
God good to man who love god

>>15776541
To this day, chirstucks don't have a sound rebuttal of the evidential argument from evil, no matter how hard they seethe

>>15777098
>>15777099

>>15776541
Because gods existance is seperate from man. God isn't some dungeonmaster enabeleing you to play out your irrelevant life, he is a higher being than man, and all you're left to do is praise his greatness.
That's how I as a Muslim viee it.

>>15777098
Evil, but not in the way you think. God being omnibenevolent could easily mean He allows people to be separated from Himself, without posing a problem to his omnibenevolence.

Either way, you could argue that separation from God isn't evil. The acts that cause this could be considered evil, but you'd be equivocating an "evil" that challenges God's omnibenevolence (as if it's a rival, opposing force) with something that's merely unnatural (separation from a communion with God).

Prove to me that God is blameless.

>>15777089
Many rippens were had that day

>>15777116
Kek

>>15776541
Bad thing is an illusion

>>15777131
He is to blame for what? Why are these examples of suffering you are likely to provide (as a shock and awe tactic) "evil?" Why does omnibenevolence mean that these things won't exist? If revelation tells us God is omnibenevolent, and His idea of omnibenevolence differs from yours, why is yours correct?

>>15777183
Why does God absolutely deny my desires at every turn? Why has he seen it fit that I should go through the days of my life without a worthwhile woman to love and be loved by?

Why don't I deserve that? Why does God ignore every single one of my tiny, pathetic little prayers?

Why doesn't God love me?

>>15777197
Calm down Elliot

>>15777212
Answer me, you cocksucker.

>>15777218
Because you, your life and everything around is irrelevant compared to the greatness of god.

>>15777228
Why is God so selfish?

>>15777235
why wouldn’t he be?

>>15777197
Is God not giving you a woman or answering your prayers evil and "selfish?" If I pray for a hot rod, and I don't get it, is God evil? I could just argue that God not denying your desires isn't a sign of Him being evil. Are you a Christian, by any chance? Why pray to a God you don't believe in? It's like massaging a wooden leg

>>15777235
Selfishness is a human trait, god is above that

>>15777251
I could argue that our goodness is an aping of God. In performing these good acts, we come closer to our true, divine spark (breathed into us by God), and thus we are at peace. It's like the prodigal son returning home from his pigsty-home abroad. I believe it possible that all "evil" acts are just caused by a lack of whatever motivated the good act. Selfishness is a lack of generosity. Pride is a lack of modesty. I could be wrong, and I'd be glad for an anon to address this idea I've hatched

>>15777251
>God legit refers to himself as a jealous/selfish God in the Bible

Kek

>>15777302
And, premature Keks notwithstanding, what do you think that means? It means that His followers cannot worship two Gods at once. It doesn't mean that He has whatever chemicals are associated with jealousy coursing through his ethereal veins. That's absurd. What about selfish? Where is that, pray tell?

>>15777197
God hasn't ignored your prayers, he just told you no. Why do you deserve a nice woman when you yourself likely lack virtue? Your desires aren't there to be rewarded without any labor.

>>15777541
Or not having a woman would be to his benefit. It could be like praying to God for a pack of Pall Malls and feeling outrage when the pack doesn't materialize. It's something you want, but it could be to your detriment. Granted, not all situations are so transparent

Aren't you sick of asking these stupid questions?

(You) are God, so why not do some Good on your own?

>>15777614
Yeah, if humans are gods, then we're piss poor gods. We can't even live up to our own lowered standards of godhood, and yet we hold God accountable to them, finite and arbitrary as they are.

>>15777633
speak for yourself, you false one,

i'm pretty cool.

>>15776541
Because God has no power over the material world, except through the minds of men.

>>15777197
Lol stop being gay and suck it up. Eternal life will be way better then this bullshit.

>>15777089
R I P P E N
I
P
P
E
N

>>15776541
Frog poster is bad
This is why board is bad.

>>15778153
>Eternal life will be way better then this bullshit.
Not an eternity in the lake of fire, which is where both of you are headed.

>>15776541
I don't know. How about you read the theological arguments as to why that were written time and time again for hundreds of years by experts in this field, instead of being cynical and having a stick up your ass you atheists and skeptical agnostics tend to walk around with?

>>15776541
to teach god and bad

>>15776541
The answers to this are all unsatisfying. Many rely on special pleading.
>What does god let bad stuff happen?
>"Humans have free will"
>What about tornado and childhood leukemia?
>"Uhhh it's not bad cause God did it." or "He works in mysterious ways."
Sometimes they'll even say it's a test of sorts if they are particularly prophetic or full of nonsense. At this point, you can ask the religion-believing individual why doesn't an omnipotent God simply test them without suffering them while ALSO keeping their free will intact--he is omnipotent, after all?
At this point they usually fly into a rage, or at least you can hear the gears grind to a halt in their head. Sometimes they'll even pull out BS like "well everyone has a right to believe what they want" and other red-herrings.

I've yet to meet a single argument in favor of Christianity or any religion, really, that is even mildly persuasive.

>>15776541
The Fall in Paradise Lost
Milton was blind and composed it in his mind every night
In the morning, he would tell his two daughters “Milk me.”***
***Milkez moi en francais

>>15778187
>read theology
>ever
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

>>15778233
>Omnipotence does not imply the power to do the nondoable, the ungodlike act. Neither does omniscience imply the knowing of the unknowable

>>15776541
More like, If god is all loving, why do unbaptized babies go to hell, and why are people punished infinitely for finite crimes, and why are people created by an all knowing god who then creates them to go to hell.

Before you respond I want you to empirically disprove all 3000 other religions before attacking Atheism, thank you for being polite and not replying with a fedora or a basedjack or whatever.

>>15778274
No one's asking for the nondoable, shit-for-brains. Just cut down on the hurricanes.

>>15776541
Assuming God exists then he is most certainly evil. How was Eve supposed to resist eating the apple? Either God's expectations were unrealistically high or he is a being of pure evil who created this world only to indulge in the suffering of mankind.

>>15778153
>He unironically wants to LIVE FOREVER.

Sounds like hell to me. Why can't I just cease to exist? That seems better.

>>15778274
They'll also point out a single "flaw" in your argument while ignoring the rest so as to convince themselves, at least superficially, that your entire post can be safely dismissed. This helps prevent cognitive dissonance--at least that's my theory.
Of course in this case, the anon here is not very smart and doesn't seem to understand what he read.

>>15777541
You're a fucking faggot buddy. Pure and simple. If that is what God is like, then he sure as shit doesn't fucking love me.

>>15778314
The hellfire you are destined for will make all this seem like a walk in the park.

>>15778284
No, SOME conceptions of God in the Bible are primitive and erroneous; it doesnt magically disappear the sophisticated and rational concepts of a benevolent God that also exist (ie. God is love).

Basically you are aiming at low-hanging fruit by ignoring the lofty conceptions of God and pretending they dont exist.

>>15777541
And yet, I'm the one whose in the wrong if I kill myself and will be tortured for eternity because he refuses me someone to love?

I wouldn't necessarily call that "good". But hey, HURR HE WURK IN MISTERUSS WHEYS

>>15778327
Shit tier troll b8 m8. Eternal punishment for finite transgression is not just or benevolent. I love the batshit mental gymnastics you niggers do. How do you not get exhausted?

>>15778314
>wah mommy doesn't love me because she doesn't feed me candy non-stop
That's what you're like. God doesn't just give you whatever you want.

>>15778330
Yeah because you're not supposed to commit suicide retard. You're the one making that decision, not God. What have you done to get a woman? Gone to the gym? Get a good career? Go to church?

>Loving benevolent God
>>>Birth defects and abominations of the human form exist right out the fucking gate

>>15778353
(You)

>>15776541
God is the totality of existence, both Good and Evil. If you want the good aspects of God then meditate on what is Good, and rest assured Evil will find a way unto your household

>>15778353
>Suicide is not part of God's Plan

It clealy is, otherwise it would not exist/be possible or even fathomable.

>>15778360
I'm just trying to ask, if you aren't putting in effort for it, why should God give you it?

>>15778368
Are you a moron? You can commit sodomy, murder, rape, blasphemy, etc. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean God wants you to do it. That's part of freewill.

>>15778369
I have though. Time and time again, and he still skunks me.

>>15778338
Save it for Saint Peter, cardinal sinner.

>>15778381
How much effort have you put in? Unless you're freakishly ugly, you can get a decent gf.

>>15778380
>>>>USE YOUR OWN FREE WILL TO DO EXACTLY AS I WOULD HAVE YOU DO AND IF YOU USE YOUR FREE WILL TO DO OTHER THAN I COMMAND YOU TO DO WITH YOUR FREE WILL I WILL PUNISH YOU FOR IT

Why is God a catch 22?

>>15778354
If a free will naturally evolving world of cause and effect is of great value (goodness) that it outweighs the necessary potential for imperfections and human suffering, then despite the existence of them, God would still be loving and benevolent.

>>15778380
He knew beforehand that you were going to do it, yet created you anyway.

>>15778398
Because semites and their ilk are retarded.

>>15778398
Yes, because without freewill, it cannot be determined who is actually loyal to him.

>>15776541
the goy control god now. be scared be berry scared.

>>15778409
This

>>15778413
If butt sex is evil and unnatural then why is the male g spot located there (prostate)?

>>15778409
Man still has the choice at the end of the day.

>>15778431
>bad thing feel good so it's supposed to be like that
Rape feels good too, as does eating too much, and amassing wealth at the expense of others. There would be no power to sin if there was not temptation for it.

>>15778409
omniscience doesnt mean the knowing of the unknowable

>>15778439
Nooo... He knows what you're going to do before even you do. You may as well be predestined.

Science has pretty much proven that the human brain is hardwired by nature/nuture and that free will is a thing that doesn't exist.

>>15778269
Fine then, stay ignorant.

>>15778439
No, God deliberately created your entire history from birth to death. He designed every decision you would make, every action you would take. Being omnipotent, he could have made you with a different life trajectory, but he didn't.

>>15778444
God created sin you dumb motherfucker.

>>15778450
Just because free will is limited doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>>15778448
Your entire life is perfectly knowable to God. He is beyond time, and sees the entire spatiotemporal journey of your life from start to finish. He decided to create certain people like you just to send them to Hell.

>>15778457
(You)

>>15778457
Free will is incompatible with the omnipotence and omniscience of God.

God is unknowable. Neti, neti motherfucker.

>>15778455
Lol, you realize that's only a Calvinist thing, right? Most Christians don't believe in absolute predestination.

>>15778456
Man is still the one that commits it, Adam still chose to take of the forbidden fruit.

>>15778469
If you believe in the omnipotence and omniscience of God, then by definition you believe in predestination.

>>15778462
>(You)

>>15778473
Only because God programmed him to.

>>15778477
(Yoooooooou)

>>15778476
No. Learn logic, you stupid monkey.

>>15778479
>>15778476
>>15778466
God also gives man freewill, this is explicitly stated in scripture and also well establish by both Aquinas and Augustine. God does not create each man's physical form.

>>15778491
Take your own advice, brainlet.

>>15778485
>(Yoooooooou)

>>15778473
>LOL MY FRUIT OF EVIL FAIRYTALE ISS TWOOOOO

Dipshit. Where'd all the evil fruit go, HUH? Why is fruit decidedly neutral nowadays HMMMM!?! You dopey FUCK.

>>15778494
Then by definition God is not omnipotent and omniscient.

>>15778503
Nigger the story of the Garden of Eden is a vital part of Christian theology, it's entirely relevant here.

>>15778502
/u/

>>15778505
How? God is not actively participating in every single thing that happens on

>>15778512
earth and the material world.

>>15778507
THEN WHERE'S ALL THE EVIL APPLES AT MOTHERFUCKER!?

QUIT TAKING OLD WIVES TALES MEANT TO BE TAKEN METAPHORICALLY AS LITERALLY.

>>15778512
>>15778516
If God is omniscient, he knows every single thing that happens on earth and the material world. If he is omnipotent, then he created every single detail of the material world. What are you not getting?

>>15778517
The evil apples are in the Garden of Eden you faggot. What are you even talking about?

>>15778526
>he knows every single thing that happens on earth and the material world.
Correct
>If he is omnipotent, then he created every single detail of the material world. What are you not getting?
Not correct, he did create the material world in the beginning but does not create every aspect of it now. I.E. he created the mechanisms by which man breeds, but not every single zygote that exists, since that's done via material means.

>>15778530
Wrong. God is outside of time. He didn't just create a 3-D slice of the world at some time t. He created the whole 4-D world. He is omnipotent.

>>15778527
Where's the garden of Eden now?

>>15778530
>Speaking literal blasphemy

lol

>>15778556
>God is outside of time.
I'm not disputing that. God created everything, this does not mean he creates every single thing material processes produce.

>>15778572
>non-Christian accusing me of blasphemy
Sure thing buddy.

>>15778603
God created all 'material processes'. He created every single aspect the material world down to the smallest detail. Not just at a particular period in time, but throughout all time. Not just at a particular region in space, but throughout all space.

>>15778557
As described in Genesis, it is no longer accessible to man.

>>15778624
FYI: what you're saying is Muslim theology and it's literally heresy according to Christian teaching.

>>15778624
Yes, God did create the mechanisms of those material processes, I've never disputed that. What I'm saying is that he is not personally actively participating in all material processes.

>>15776541
You judge things as good or bad from a limited human perspective.

>>15778626
It is currently under water in the northwestern portion of the Persian Gulf.

>>15778627
Nope. The Christian God was known to be omnipotent and omniscient long before Islam existed.

>>15778641
>omnipotent
>[ˌämˈnipəd(ə)nt]
>ADJECTIVE
>(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
>able to do anything
>able
Do you understand now? God is able to do anything, not that he is always doing everything.

>>15778641
Omniscience and omnipotence doesn't mean God micromanages literally every aspect of creation.

You're denying the existence of will, which is a Muslim heresy.

>>15776541
Because bad thing very small in comparison to eternity in heaven or hell.

>>15776541
What if god cant understand what bad things are? since god is all powerful he might not be able to feel the pain of regular humans or be able to sympathize with them

>>15778632
>he is not personally actively participating in all material processes
That's a matter of theological semantics. If a programmer creates a procedure that, say, parses a text file, then he is not 'personally actively participating" in the parsing process in real time. But he is fully responsible for all details of the output. Of course, God is outside time so not even this captures the scope of his involvement. He created the entire past, present and future of the material world in one fell swoop. He did not piecemeal create the "initial conditions" and the "laws of nature" and then pressed "run", like a computer simulation. That's only how time-bound humans see the world, not the Divine Creator.

>>15778650
What parts of the material world did God not create? And who created those parts? Satan?

>>15778673
Gonna need some scripture to back this up since it directly contradicts a ton of aspects of Christianity.

>>15778677
List those 'aspects'.

>>15778675
God created all of the material world. This is not in dispute. However, God is not actively participating in everything that happens in it. For example, if I throw something off my desk, it's not likely that God is involved in that process and nothing in the Bible suggests otherwise. This applies to pretty much all processes in the material world.

>>15778680
Well, free will for one, something upheld both by the Bible and Christian apologists like Aquinas. There's nothing in the Bible which suggests God is controlling the exact outcome of every single event.

>>15776615
He seems like a cool dude, where do I start with Heidegger? Is he hard to read?

>>15778709
>Is he hard to read?
Yes, I'm like 1/3rd of the way through Being and Time.

>>15778693
"Processes" are a human construct. Humans can only experience the world moment by moment. They see the past as fixed and the future as open. God is not so limited in his understanding of the world. He sees all of spacetime as a whole. There are no 'processes' for God, as distinct from spatially extended objects. The expression "actively participating" falsely implies that God is a time-bound creature who understands the world in terms of "processes" over time. He's not. He created all the world in all spatiotemporal dimensions in one go.

>>15778705
What does 'creating the physical world' mean if it doesn't mean creating every physical event? The physical world is just a collection of physical events.