/lit/ - Literature

>>15767888

you're the epitome of stupidity. delete this. you're embarrassing yourself

>>15768016
I'm sad for you. To be blind and deaf is be parapraxis embodied.

>>15768111
based

>>15767888
>>15768111
CHECKED

>>15767888
>read a shitty love story/power fantasy by a racist boomer who had a radio show about how he hated niggers and Jews
No.

>>15768152
seething libtard

This is one of the worst pieces of literature written. It’s also pretty much the founding document of the modern American right-wing. So... put two and two together here.

>>15768156
It's just not well written, nor it it prophetic at all. The race riots and shit in it are way off as most of the rioters today are white.

>>15767888
Isn't there a part where it says that liberal whites would kiss nigger boots? Because that's LITERALLY what's happening in the US.

it's poorly written, and there's no excuse for that. i used to write erotic chronicles and use them as masturbation material when i was 14, and turner diaries read kind of like them (coincidentally, though i know Pierce wasn't a virgin, his narration of a sexual encounter read like the man had never had sex in his damned life).

i bring up my teenage masturbation journal because the point of the exercise wasn't to write properly, it was to jerk off, and that's exactly what reading the turner diaries felt like.

at least camp of saints is properly written, but it's not much of a power fantasy (it's much more reminiscent of a film like Thirteen, where it's fearporn meant to scare suburban moms except now its preppers nervously tracking population growth in the third world).

>>15767888
I tried, but I really couldn't get past the first chapter.

>>15768216
>though i know Pierce wasn't a virgin
His son recently wrote a whole book denouncing him lmao.

>>15767888
>>15768111
>>15768156
It really is an awful book. They just kill random black people and jews and then justify killing innocent people on the day of the rope. There are right wing books that are well written but this is just autism.

ah yes, a great piece of literature loved by many, such as Timothy McVeigh and David Copeland

>>15768234
denouncing him in what way?

>>15768239
He probably clarified that he wasn't a psycho-retard who wanted to start a race war and holocaust the Jews.

>>15768239
Yeah pretty much this >>15768255
Probably to cash out on anti-racism too. https://www.amazon.com/Sins-My-Father-Dangerous-Supremacist/dp/B084DGVFD6

>>15768261
yeah he just wants to make a quick buck
that’s the only reason he’d write a book
not to try to undo and expose the evil his father did

>>15768275
>expose the evil his father did
what is there to expose his dad's pretty upfront with the whole thing

>>15768275
I'm not saying that it was a bad thing, I'm sure having America's most well known racist as a dad sucked. WN types always try to indoctrinate their kids too and the kids always reject it. Same thing happened with Rockwell.

>>15768261
Top 10 worst literary sons. Up there with Brian Herbert.

>>15768280
Lmao, yeah it's not likely he really hid it.

>>15768288
>Rockwell
who's rockwell?

anyone know where to find a pdf?

>>15768317
you could probably buy a copy from Timothy McVeigh

>>15768311
George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party, and by extension the modern WN movement. All his kids ended up racemixing lmao.

>>15768111
>if I don't like what you say, it's because you are [insert thought terminating ad hominems]
>goto 10

>>15768317
Have you tried googling 'Turner Diaries PDF'?

>>15768324
>American Nazi Party
Peak larping kek

>>15768343
Oh yeah, WNs worship him. They think he would've won the 1972 election if he hadn't been killed by his own men.

>>15768336
Hitchen's razor.

>>15768317
it's on trantor.is
You should download because trantor is an antifa website and they will delete it eventually

/r/books has it on their recommendations page which is amusing

>>15768361
Who's the priest on the right?

>>15768389
No clue, you'd have to dig into ANP history to find that out. Probably some literal homosexual.

>>15768275
Can't blame him. Every faith is willing to reward a high profile convert. My guess is that he's looking for a job in academia or an academic academia adjacent lecture circuit.

>>15768450
>literally the academic equivalent of a "how i left the alt-right" youtube video
jesus christ

>>15768317
https://libgen.is/
It's on here.

>>15768177
It's quite prophetic. The core prediction is that white guilt and what we would call "wokeness" today reach their conclusion in a world where whites cannot engage with minorities or defend themselves from the violence of minorities without the public and the state crucifying them for it. This leads to increasing radicalism from whites and the political right until a race war is ignited.

We have been seeing several prominent cases of this ease with which whites are vilified for negative interactions with blacks recently. For instance the couple in St. Louis who presented armed in their yard in response to hundreds protestors who broke into their gated community. They have been attacked, they've had to close their legal practice, and now charges are being contemplated against them. They've been told to simply vacate their property following threats of a future direct protest against them. Another much more egregious example is the woman who brandished in Michigan. She and her husband were harassed, threatened, their vehicles was attacked, and they were illegally detained by their assailants who instigated the encounter ostensibly in hopes of provoking a recorded response. She brandished a gun to stop the attack and escape. Later, she and her husband were arrested and are facing felony charges. Their weapons were seized and the husband has already lost his job. Their lives are over because they had the misfortune to encounter a black race-baiter and were not willing to endure one-sided violence with no response.

Things have seemingly only begun as well, we are moving towards a political reality where the almost pathological extremity of the efforts to combat racism render whites completely incapable to settle disputes with blacks in any other mode than prostration. It's a recipe for disaster as those who won't just take it will radicalize in response.

>>15768566
How does that justify starting a race war? He actually dedicated “Hunter” to a man who killed 7 black people in an attempt to start a race war.

>>15768650
*at least 7 black people

>>15767888
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7OSQ&nhBds=grbtk

>>15767888
what about unintended consequences and the camp of saints?

>>15768650
It doesn't justify one. I don't feel that the escalation of violence and the degree of suffering that will be visited even on good people that would inevitably arise out of race-based conflict can ever be justified.

But that said, events like this, especially if they continue to be common and/or get worse WILL both radicalize the ideological opposition and be used as propaganda to support their narratives. This sort of thing only serves to disintegrate trust between races and to make society less civil.

>>15768016
A shekel for the good goy

>>15768765
Those are cogent and actually relevant to what is going on in the world today (at an alarming pace). The Turner Diaries is amazingly bad and unintentionally hilarious. I'm surprised people unironically take it to be the scariest far-right propaganda or seriously take it to be an inspiration. It sounds like what an edgy 14 year old would write tbqh, not a grown man.

feel like browsing /pol/ but less fun

>>15768765
Reading Unintended Consequences now. While I'm enjoying it, the writing style and gun autism is so strong I had assumed it would be criticized similarly to TD as a wank rag.

I haven't read Camp of Saints. Is it worth a read? Why would you suggest it is relevant to today?

>>15769096
>Is it worth a read?
it's not poorly written, the prose is nice but the story is kind of unbelievable and bubbles into histrionics.

>Why would you suggest it is relevant to today?
if you are sincerely terrified that the third world is populated exclusively by retards who will just continue reproducing like rabbits until they've depleted all of their resources at which point they will board ships bound for Europe and overrun the continent overnight -- then yes, it's satisfying malthusian pornography.

if you have any faith in humanity and the human individual, then you'll find some of the leaps of logic the book tries to pull difficult to swallow.

i guess if you already agree with the politics and fears of the books, then yeah why not.

>>15769223
Unfortunately, even without resource depletion we face the fact that 3rd world areas with high population growth are disproportionately at risk from sea level rise. Massive population displacement to Europe may be unavoidable with significant populist strides being made there.

>>15767888
Setting aside the ideology:
This is a poorly written piece of propaganda which was written only for that purpose - to be propaganda.

>>15767888
Is there a leftist version of The Turner Diaries?

>>15768179
Lol you are so paranoid it's adorable.

>>15769385
Answer the question! If they kiss the boot, we must execute!

>>15769327
Massive population displacement is basically a reality, the third world is going to get hit with the brunt of the negative effects of climate change and people aren't going to learn to breathe underwater or go without food. it's not even just about sea level rendering coasts uninhabitable, western africa is at risk of becoming a giant dustbowl.

the book doesn't touch on climate change though, it just depicts the third worlders as desperate and incapable. it also has the chinese trying to flood soviet russia lol.

no amount of populist governance is going to stop the mass immigration of people should scientist's predictions of the future become a reality.

>>15769419
the US of all places basically stopped immigration overnight due to coronavirus. Saying governments can't stop immigration is different from saying it's morally wrong for them to do so.

>>15769543
we're talking about billions of people facing starvation making their way towards the 1st world. the european migrant crisis featured maybe ~2 million migrants passing into europe, with 60 million people displaced worldwide.

60 million. we're talking billions. 60 million is a drop in the bucket. the immigration stream into the US averages 1 million a year.

if allowed to happen, the devastation that will occur in africa and south east asia will be so bad, it'll make the migrant crisis look like a game of musical chairs.

>>15769569
Meh, it's probably exaggerated - every narrative of the post-war order has been a lie, why would this one be true?

>>15768343
It was originally called "World Union of free Enterprise National Socialists"
A mouthful I know, but that does describe the movement accurately.

He was a showman and figured he'd get a lot more press if he just outright called himself a Nazi and wore an inflamatory uniform to go along with it.

Larping aside Rockwell was a good man, who genuinely believed in the movement and essentially died for it.

I think he would have gotten further if he was less inflammatory and got more upstanding people to join the party (he recruited druggies and homos in the hopes of setting them straight)
He also should have worked more with the Nation if Islam and Elijah Muhammad to inform the black middle class of the time how short sighted MLK's beliefs were.

It was a crazy time, and Rockwell was a crazy man. The sane rarely make history.

https://youtu.be/qRFzkB2dXk8

>>15769695
This one critical race theorist Derrick Bell basically argues (correctly) that movements like MLK's only serve white liberal interests - de-segregation was basically a soft power op to make African countries like us because the USSR was going on about "The United States is Lynching Negroes". You basically have two Communist shitholes falling over each other over who can pretend to care more about Africans. If anything a reformed system of segregation with local black autonomy would've worked better than what we have now - forcing blacks to ride in the back of the bus or tip their caps etc. is stupid, but the minute segregation ended all blacks with the means fled black areas leaving them without a functional upper class.

>>15769725
I don't know about that. MLK and Rosa Parks got training from communist backed schools before they started their activism. The CPUSA was quite involved in the early stages of the civil rights movement "before it was cool" one might say. If Derrick Bell doesn't acknowledge the role of communists in the civil rights movement, then he might be stupid.

>>15767888
shut up nigger

>>15768566
>The core prediction is that white guilt and what we would call "wokeness" today reach their conclusion in a world where whites cannot engage with minorities or defend themselves from the violence of minorities without the public and the state crucifying them for it.
Except TD takes this to an entirely retarded level. In TD whites are openly attacked and killed by blacks who don't lift a finger to protect themselves. Legality and social pressures don't erase the instinct for self continuation.

>>15769749
Yeah but white liberals provide institutional support for CPUSA. Communist activism in the US requires liberal support to manifest into any real change.

>>15767888
why do people expose themselves to things that make them angry? whats the point of all this seething, take the blindpill instead

>>15769758
Not that guy but the liberals of 1960s were nothing like the shitlibs today (in fact calling them such would be a misonym)

Even Rockwell, the Nazi acknowledged liberals as "courteous and open minded" people as they were the ones who allowed him to speak on college campuses.

Rockwell thought liberals were simply fed lies and had facts hidden away from them which led to their uninformed decisions.

Rockwell should not have been a media agitator. He was really short sighted himself, but he did think the U.S was on the brink of a "race war" as the shit going on in America in the 1960s were crazier than what's going on today with the riots and CHOP.

Had Rockwell the foresight to know there would be no Helter Skelter he should and would have taken a far different approach.

One of the main reasons why the new white nationalist movement will never win is that they have no notion of how or why violence occurs or escalates. There are loads of violent ethnic conflicts but never has it amounted to what they envision in "race war", where skin colors are out massacring each other in the streets as if it were a team sport. It's likely because violent ethnic conflict occurs in specific conditions in which two groups have very clearly and strictly been organized in different places of power, and view each other as immediate threats to that racially based and entrenched power as (normally) protected by law itself: things which are not and can no longer be the case in the west. It has not been the case since slavery.

The white nationalist movement will never understand this. They have no interest in reading history. They have no interest in researching their own beliefs or own goals. They will instead rely on half-baked genocidal fantasies and conspiracy theories because they're comfortable, demand nothing of your ability to think, and satisfy the dreams of becoming, for once, a strong and universally beloved person. They will therefore latch onto vulgarized ""accelerationism"" or any other narrative that justifies violent outbursts in the present.

I only ask anyone who is actually falling for their grift to please think critically about everything. Please do not fall prey to easy answers and simple explanations. Think through everything that you are presented with, because it's very likely that that person is, in some sense, attempting to control your thoughts, and it is within your ability as a human being to decide what to think for yourself. Critical thought, of everything, of yourself, is today the only way out.

>>15769695
>"World Union of free Enterprise National Socialists"
Which is why it was non-sense, and means GLR just viewed Nazism as antisemitism and racism, a gross oversimplification and revision.
>He was a showman
His father was a vaudeville performer, that was GLR's whole act, politics is a lot more than being a literal clown.
>I think he would have gotten further
There was no world in which he would've gotten anywhere, he was delusional.
>believed in the movement
Yeah the one he created and was the head of, that's pretty easy
>essentially died for it.
He didn't die for shit, he was shot by one of his own men, which tells you the quality of his leadership and his organization.
>The sane rarely make history.
Complete clowns don't either, and GLR didn't.

>>15769385
cringe
>>15769412
BASED

>>15769816
>One of the main reasons why the new white nationalist movement
Stopped reading right there.
There is no such thing.

With time we will turn into Brazil and we will be owned by rich capitalists and have a disproportionate wealth gap.
That is the extent of it.

Assigning more people to work on capital just lowers the bargaining strength of laborers and we get the same situation as was the start of the industrial revolution.

>>15769816
White nationalists in general lack an understanding of the political. As far as violence is concerned, they have the same view as anarchists did 100 years ago, that a spark of individual violence (propaganda of the deed) will lead to some larger uprising/revolution, which Lenin thoroughly refuted. Hence why the carry out attacks on random targets like Mosques or Mexicans at a walmart, and this logic is reflected in the the Turner Diaries.

>>15769849
>There is no such thing.
There objectively is, what do you think Charlottesville was? It's just incredibly ineffective and small.

>>15769827
>GLR just viewed Nazism as antisemitism and racism
A gross oversimplification and revision.
>politics is a lot more than being a literal clown.
We managed to get one in office didn't we?
>There was no world in which he would've gotten anywhere, he was delusional.
>Yeah the one he created and was the head of, that's pretty easy.
Not worth the response.
>He didn't die for shit, he was shot by one of his own men, which tells you the quality of his leadership and his organization.
Again, has to do with the quality of people he got into the movement.
If he wasn't killed by Patsalos it would have been someone else.
>Complete clowns don't either, and GLR didn't.
We are here talking about him 60 years after his death on a Mongolian throat singing forum. More than could be said for most people.

>>15769869
>There objectively is
Yeah, there isn't.
>what do you think Charlottesville was?
A stupid event to get stupid people doxxed.

>>15769896
>A stupid event to get stupid people doxxed.
What kind of people? Would these individuals happen to be engaging in a specific political activity/moment that would set them apart from random individuals?

>>15769908
No. They were just idiots. Not even Richard Spencer was there.

>>15767888
GET YE GONE GLOW IN THE DARK

>>15769924
>They were just idiots.
What kind of idiots? Idiots participating in a political activity/movement?
>Not even Richard Spencer was there.
lol

>>15769961
Okay, you win this one feggot.
Guess my memory of the Unite the Right Rally is blurry.
Cut me some slack, I don't want to remember it.

>>15769804
They weren't really that different. CPUSA might've been the radical wing, but liberals of that time provided the money and institutional support through the CIA, Ford Foundation etc. Also, the reality in the US is that the radical wing of one generation's liberals becomes the ruling liberal coalition, leading to a leftward drift over time. The New Left cohort is getting purged today as they purged the Stalinist cohort in the 60s.

>>15769865
The issue isn't so much that it is impossible to galvanize political revolution though a series of concerted acts which polarize the public, it's that white nationalist, and indeed radical rightists generally, do not exist as organized entities. The non-mainstream, corporatist right essentially isn't organized at all., and thus effectively doesn't exist.

The closest thing that exists to an organized, influential white separatist group is the Mormon Church.

>>15769970
Yeah I had friends there lmao, so I remember everything that happened that day. It was a shitshow but so was everything that happened before and after it.

>>15769999
Why was it called "unite the right"
Why is being pro-white "right wing"
Why can't I have a livable fucking wage with lower hours and more leisure time but a country that actually gives a shit about it's demographics.

Places like Japan openly discriminate against non Japanese people.
Guess that's problematic.

>>15770037
>"unite the right"
Idea was to unite the Trump people 'alt lite' with Spencer's crowd 'alt right', which of course failed because none of the Trump people wanted to united with NSM/TWP/other neonazis.
>Why is being pro-white "right wing"
That depends, some people like Greg Johnson envision WN including all types of political persuasion. Most WNs are neo-Nazis though so trend towards social conservatism and antisemitism.
>Why can't I have a livable fucking wage with lower hours and more leisure time but a country that actually gives a shit about it's demographics.
That would be a question for a neoliberal, not me. For the record, I don't hold my old WN beliefs anymore and align much more with the Conservative Revolution/Marxist thought.

>>15769569
There is nothing stopping them from just not letting them in. The only reason they don't is because of their moralist ideology, which is variable. It's not like the refugees are going to successfully invade and conquer the country by force.

>>15770123
>The only reason they don't is because of their moralist ideology
Wrong, it's because it damages working class organization, thus elites encourage it.

>>15769569
>>15769419
Lol if they wanted to, industrial countries militaries would destroy these people in half a second. It happens because of policy decisions.

>>15769816
Lengthening your post doesn't make your thesis any more valid. If you want to prove your point, you should motivate it with some case studies so others can attempt to refute it. Two -thirds of your post is emotional nonsense.

>>15769865
The Management of Savagery and the political realities that followed refute Lenin.

>>15770128
Well, ostensibly it's the morality under the democratic pretense of it all. You can't claim anything else without being deemed a schizophrenic/conspiracy theorist/extremist.

>>15770128
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

>>15770208
>The Management of Savagery and the political realities that followed refute Lenin.
No they don't lmao, even with Jihadists, individual attacks have done very little while organized groups have accomplished so much more. Compare the Taliban to al Qaeda if you doubt that.

>>15770074
>Most WNs are neo-Nazis though so trend towards social conservatism and antisemitism.
I honestly don't think Nazis were so socially conservative.
There was a conservative movement in Germany at the time, they were not fans of the NSDAP. Noteable examples would be Junger and Spengler, even Heidegger I would argue. (nevermind I see you're conrev yourself)
>I align much more with the Conservative Revolution/Marxist thought.
How do you put those two together, I'm curious

>>15770233
Oh you mean the immigration act that crushed unions in America? I'm already well aware of it.

>>15770256
I'm well aware of the Conservative Revolution, but the Nazis were socially conservative, something not universal for all fascism. Neo-nazis are just social conservatives who hate Jews and blacks.
>How do you put those two together, I'm curious
Mostly through the idea of a 4th political theory. Liberalism today is hegemonic through capitalism and vice versa, so both problems have to be dealt with. There is no anti-capitalism without social conservatism and no anti-liberalism without anti-capitalism. Marx was not right about everything, nor were the Conservative Revolutionaries right about everything. You just have to take what makes sense from both. Combining Schmitt with Marxism is super easy though.

>>15770255
If you honestly think that the Taliban and al-Qaeda can be compared in this context, we are too far apart in knowledge to even have this discussion. It's impossible to say that one is more successful than the other because they have a radically different scope. The point is not that one resistance is more or less successful than the other to begin with. It was said that individual political violence cannot spark a greater political event, which is clearly proven wrong by the example given.

>>15770260
The motivations of those involved and the policy aims are in contradiction with your belief. It's also nearly impossible to establish a causal relationship between 1965 and your unions, whereas a causal relationship between loosening immigration laws on non-whites and increased non-white immigration speaks for itself.

>>15770300
Ohhh Dugin of course.
There was this website, it's link I forgot. It had a lot of third positionist essays spanning from Dugin, Evola, Schmitt, (all the meme philosophers)
Please share it if you have the link, I lost it but I'd imagine you have it.

What has led you to disagree with fascism(as vague of an idea fascism is) and actual idealism?

>>15767888
I like The Brigade a lot better. It's a more up to date version of The Turner Diaries

>>15767888
>>The Future

>>15770345
The can absolutely be compared, what are you even talking about? Both are armed militant Islamist groups. The scope also is not very different as AQ has been trying to hold territory for more than a decade. You also clearly aren't familiar with Lenin since individual political violence is not part of AQ's main message. Lenin always said that terror attacks carried out by a revolutionary vanguard could be useful if they served a direct purpose, but were generally counterproductive since they increased state pressure, which has clearly played out with Islamists. Individual political violence can spark greater political events, but not revolution.

>>15770346
>There was this website, it's link I forgot. It had a lot of third positionist essays spanning from Dugin, Evola, Schmitt, (all the meme philosophers)
Probably Counter Currents, but it's ran by a homo and has some really bad writters so I don't go there. Also Dugin and Schmitt aren't 3rd position, and Schmitt is definitely not a meme.
>What has led you to disagree with fascism(as vague of an idea fascism is) and actual idealism?
Reading more about the history of the 3rd Reich and reading Lenin. I realized the claims made about Hitler by WNs were entirely, and hilariously the opposite of the truth. I also think capitalism is the primary driver of world history since its inception, so no idealism is needed.

>he thinks the "white race" is actually a strong enough myth to actually get people to lose their lives for it in the year of 2020
people will think of themselves, or at best, their immediate families. Don't be stupid.

>>15768016
Lmao at this pseud

>>15770345
>It's also nearly impossible to establish a causal relationship between 1965 and your unions, whereas a causal relationship between loosening immigration laws on non-whites and increased non-white immigration speaks for itself.
No one is disputing that the '65 immigration act let in more non-whites lmao. That's obvious, objective historical fact. The motivations about why it happened are more debatable. Material interests of the elites wanting to have cheaper labor and greater control over the labor market explains it better than 'Jews don't like white people so they tricked people into doing something against their own interest' or 'people just became more liberal for some reason'.

>>15768167
you can hate this book rationally you don’t need to be a retard to lol

>>15767888
Objectively low IQ book

>>15768216
I think this book makes you think of your “diary” because you hate yourself and this book reminded you of how much you hate yourself for some reason

>>15767888
I read this shit after someone read passages of it to me on Counterstrike. I thought the person who was reading it was making shit up due to how bad every single aspect of it was.

Put the racism aside. The pacing, the prose, the ideas, not the racial ideas but his actual "this happens so this happens" were so completely detached from reality that I couldn't keep my shit together.

I know it was written in 1978, but wasn't information about nuclear bombs already around?

>>15770658
>Both are armed militant Islamist groups.
And this makes the comparison worthwhile? You don't understand the ideological subtleties that differentiate them or you wouldn't make this comparison. That was my point. Salafism is an internationalist movement. This radical difference in scope is what leads to different aims. TD is also about internationalism, which is why only Al-Qaeda and the Islamic State are relevant comparisons to judge the validity of the thesis. The successful establishment of a Hungarian ethnostate (for example) does not discredit Pierce's idea. Also, AQ's ideological and material contributions to national movements like Al-Shabab and Taliban were significant, and possibly even a necessary condition to the establishment of the former. If your concept of "organized groups" is actually a consequence of "individual attacks", your comparison between the two should obviously be retracted. This is why the establishment of IS is the most important case study for white nationalism (which is clearly more aptly described as white internationalism).

>Lenin always said that terror attacks carried out by a revolutionary vanguard could be useful if they served a direct purpose, but were generally counterproductive since they increased state pressure, which has clearly played out with Islamists.
This is materialist consequentialism. AQ did rise to statehood in Yemen and the Levant, among others. Were these revolutions or mere political events? And if you judge their ultimate failure on ideological shortcomings, would you also ascribe the global failure of Marxism to the justness of liberalism? And if Jabhat al-Nusra -> HTS inevitably fails, does that say anything about "organized groups"?

>>15770837
If you read it, how come you're unaware that the book culminates in a nuclear war?

>>15771002
>If you read it, how come you're unaware that the book culminates in a nuclear war?
That's why I'm asking if information about nuclear bombs was around.

>>15768177
>most of the rioters today are wh-
Retard

>>15770673
Fascism and Natsoc are closely related, but the genealogy is different.

>>15770982
>This is why the establishment of IS is the most important case study for white nationalism
Oh you mean the thing that failed dramatically because of the same principles Lenin warned against? Meanwhile al Nusra is sitting relatively intact because they didn't antagonize the West by inspiring terrorist attacks. In any case, these groups rely on an already very well established and pretty common throughout the Muslim world, something modern political radicals in the West don't have the luxury of.

>AQ did rise to statehood in Yemen and the Levant, among others.
Primarily through local Sunni communities who wished to protect themselves from Shia militants, same as happened in Iraq, not through propaganda of the deed style terrorism.
>Were these revolutions or mere political events?
Sectarian self protection, not revolutions, these all emerged in failed/failing states, they didn't overthrow existing ones all by themselves.
>would you also ascribe the global failure of Marxism to the justness of liberalism?
No, history has no trend to justness, global failure of Marxism in the late 80's was due to internal contradictions coming to fruition. I've never professed to be an orthodox Marxist. However, that long term failure doesn't undermine the correctness of Lenin's revolutionary methods.

As far as al Nusra is concerned, not all properly carried out groups will succeed, it's just that individual violence does not, which time and time again shows itself to be true.

>>15771048
They are, perhaps the early riots in MN weren't, especially the looting, but all the statue stuff and ongoing violence is mostly whites.

>>15771062
Sure, but the failures of fascism were most clearly shown in National Socialism. Mussolini's system was better, but it all became derailed by Hitler's.

>>15767888
The future looks like badly written retarded fiction?

>>15771080
>Meanwhile al Nusra is sitting relatively intact
Lol. 5 years from now JaN will not exist materially or even spiritually. Not going to bother responding to the rest of your post since you are constantly warping reality to suit your view.

>>15771093
They're in a lot better position than IS. Nusra is not in a great position, but Turkish involvement is likely to keep around a while longer. Even once Nusra is in the dustbin of history, it will have lasted far longer than IS precisely because it didn't engage in individual terror attacks.

>>15768167
Some of the most important political literature is also terribly written. What is to be done? for example (not Lenin's book, the other one).

>>15771112
The other anon is right to some extent. All large, centralized jihadist groups will fail because they're extremely vulnerable to infiltration and the systematic killing of its leaders, whether they engage in what you call individual terrorism or not. This is why Abu Mus'ab al-Suri advocates for decentralized resistance through small cells with clandestine structures, and individual attacks from these, multiplied on a large scale, will be far more successful than anything done by a group, even if they themselves cannot take territory, because they make the way for that to actually be possible on a large scale and over a large timeframe in the future. And even if one cell is compromised, that does not affect others, and the others are able to continue mounting attacks. Lenin and Trotsky were wrong. The Islamist experience has proven that individual terrorism is much more effective. You are literally behaving like an orthodox Marxist with your naive faith in this 20th century political theory.

>>15771231
'Cells' implies organized structure. Obviously there's a billion examples of a cell structure working. What is being discussed is 'propaganda of the deed' style attacks as carried out by anarchists and WNs, which implies no structure whatsoever and is individuals taking action. As far as the Islamic world is concerned, Hezbollah stands as a highly successful example of hierarchical organizing and they went toe to toe with the Israelis and won.