/lit/ - Literature

>>15754415
sorry i'm atheist.
I don't believe in shit that doesn't exist.

>>15754415
Love how they put the new york times bestseller sticker on there like an award to hide the fact that it has received none.

>>15754415
>self-help
do people really?

>>15754460
Me quiero volver chango anon.

All these anti white concepts have an inherent assault against white people built in. It's concern trolling, gas-lighting, humiliation and transferring of social capital away from whites to socially marginal groups in the supposed quest for equality. These groups are really the preferred groups in the dualistic left wing axiology of oppressed vs oppressor.

If you deny the existence of 'white fragility' you affirm its existence by instantiating a token of its abstract type. Meta-ontological discourse is obviated from the beginning because you can't deny it's existence without affirming its existence. The discourse starts at the ontological level first, this is built into the concept itself.

Instantiating white fragility by denying it is a display of your low social status/capital. You show yourself to be a member of an outgroup that's reviled among the left. You might be ostracized, mocked, attacked or re-educated into conformity.

If you affirm the existence of white fragility you commit yourself to forensic examination, a modern struggle session. By showing openness and agreeability you leave yourself vulnerable to be exploited/gaslit/scolded because if you protest or challenge them your engaging in a form of white fragility.

The person/group who accuses you of having white fragility is almost always in the dominant position in the interaction. Baudrillard writes about left wing discourses being fundamentally about power not freedom or equality.

It's a fad. Expect used bookstores to be filled with copies of this in the next few years.

>>15754415
Lit tends to dismiss this kind of literature because many of us operate under the assumption that "libtards" operate under one unified ideology.

There are actually many leftist literary theorists who are highly critical of Diangelo's thesis but would agree with a few of the main points in White Fragility. Read the New Yorker article about Ibram X. Kend if you want some insight into leftist discussion. It focuses on accepting alternative points of view as a descriptive attributes, not an ideological/personal attacks.

The most unfortunate thing that's happened to modern Western politics is that it's turned everyone's opponent into a straw man with inherited opinions and automatic personalities. If right wing people took the time to read leftist critical essays, they'd find that a lot of liberals agree with them in a fundamental sense.

>>15754677
Have you read White Fragility? If you have, I'm surprised you don't take comfort in it's kindness towards white people.

Basically, it views white behavior (which really is only meant to describe 65-70% of white American men) as sympathetic figures who are largely a victim of their time and environment.

White men have the highest suicide rate, and books like white fragility are the only ones that confront the issue while also being sympathetic to them.

You should read it if you haven't. I think it's not as critical towards your demographic as you think it is.

something I won't read either

>>15754731

Most of us know that there's a spectrum of political positions and differences in the left just as there are on the right, very few of us are unaware of this.

Terfs vs radfems.
Class reductionists vs idpol generally.
Neoliberal interventionists vs anti war progressives.
Marxists vs anarchists.
Subaltern vs liberals.
Left populists Vs left establishmentarians.

>>15754415

>>15754692
Much more likely that they'll start teaching it in school soon, potentially by already in September

>>15754677
>>15754731
>>15754756
what do these posts have in common?

>>15754756

I haven't read the book but I'm talking about the concept of white fragility independent of the authors conceptualisation. I'm referring to it's instrumental use in political discourse and how it's defined by the left that use it.

>>15754731
Academic leftist critique is impotent and does nothing to meaningfully oppose the liberal, intersectional hegemony. It might as well not even exist.

>>15754765
I'm in complete agreement with you. But your average racial scholar, no matter their position on the political spectrum, is going to be more nuanced than a clear majority of the posts on the internet.

My point is trying to address the fact that we're in a thread focused on a book's title instead of it's contents. Many of us are logically aware of this fact, yes, but I would say far fewer make posts displaying that reality.

>>15754774
based nazis

>>15754415
I'm not particularly interested in your religious Kafka trap. She can take that White Fragility nonsense where it belongs, the conference rooms of corporate workers who feel the need to flagellate themselves over their race and succeeding in an era of diminished expectations and living standards.

>>15754756
That's not sympathetic, that's literally gaslighting. White people aren't racist because they are victims of their times, White people are racist because we have eyes and functional frontal lobes despite massive top down efforts to remove those.

>>15754796
The concept of white fragility cannot be independent from the writer's conception of it because the writer is the one who has defined and entered it into conception. If we don't understand that, then we are discussing something entirely different.

One basic tenet of academic discussions is that concepts such as White Fragility must be clearly defined because otherwise all debate is based on supposition.

In short, I would argue that there is no general leftist idea of white fragility because the average leftist doesn't have an adequate understandingg of what white fragility was actually supposed to mean,. There is no ideological unity on the left, and the right simply mirrors that reality.

If you have a different idea of White Fragility, I'd be interested in hearing it. I only know it as originally described from DeAngelo, and it seems irrational that it should be met with such hostility, though it wasn't unexpected.

>>15754415
N

>>15754780
r*ddit spaces?

>>15755122
Is it gaslighting because white people aren't racist, you're saying? If that's the case, then we're never gonna convince each other of anything.

>>15755084
You're attaching one sociological theory to a single grand, all encompassing ideology. Thanks for proving my point.

>>15755168
>The concept of white fragility cannot be independent from the writer's conception
Of course it can, you stupid twat. The author has no control over how people who haven't (or have) read the book might twist the concept either intentionally or not. You're on an imageboard based around meme-culture for fuck's sake.

Given the thriving anti-white cultural climate and the dearth of average people who actually read, I find it entirely likely that the mere name of this book has migrated from best-seller lists, advertisements and media mentions into the lexicon of anti-whites, where it takes on whatever meaning is convenient to gaslight whites.

>>15754731
No mate you just hate white people.

>>15754415
What is its solution to this horrendous problem?

>>15754677
Good post

>>15754415
>fellow white people
lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjHg65JORi8

Someone post the thing where she's listing the statistics of how white men dominate all industries

>>15755211
When other ones can actually contest this to the pint that it will actually effect my life, you can talk. Don't pat yourself on the back for being totally useless.

>>15755204
you'll get convinced by bits of metal entering your body at high speed

Yeah it's not niggers were slaves for a thousand years

>>15754756
The person who wrote this post is absolute human trash, a slimy, disgusting coward.

>>15754415
Come on, even black people have started shitting on this thing for the author being a profiteering cracker.

>>15754415
Stop posting this shit just so you can samefag being an angry rightwinger in the replies you inbred scum kys

>>15756128

>>15756119
>"white people" are illiterate on the topic of race
>to be raised "white" is to think of oneself as outside of race
>everything must be viewed through the lens of race.
>class struggle is actually a means to deflect from the more fundamental reality: race struggle
>to reduce the divisions present in our society, we must focus more on race
>every aspect of our being, of our whole life-story, is shaped by race
Is this really the narrative they want to run with nowadays?

>>15756292
Interesting how she includes "People who decide which books we read". Would she herself say that people shouldn't read her book because she's white?

>>15754415
I don’t hate any group of people except for Jews, and that’s because Jews are immoral and a synagogue of Satan.

There are good blacks, whites, asians, arabs, Indians, and such but Jews are monolithically evil.

>>15754677
>he activated the Kafka trap card
Just as planned

>>15754677
You aren't supposed to say that. Accept whites are racist and fragile.

>>15754415
I'm an Indian American, and I think the most 'fragile' race are blacks. Most of the racism I faced in school were from Black people, but if you say anything against them they'd report you or get violent.

>>15754731
>>15754677

you people should at least understand there's a world of leftists who despise the New Yorker and think this book is poison right?

>>15756437
Not only are we aware of these anti-idpol Leftists, they're overrepresented on /lit/ compared to their real world presence by several orders of magnitude. That is basically the problem itself.

>>15756437
By a world of leftists do you mean the vast majority of academics and university students who claim to be "leftist" and who enthusiastically support the agenda of this book if not the book itself, or do you mean the "focus on class bro, race doesn't even exist lol" leftists in places like /leftypol/ that are, at best, afraid to denounce this woman for what she is, and at worst, complicit with her anyway?

I am a leftist but let's not pretend that the vast majority of people identifying as such aren't racist against whites.

>>15754677
This is essentially the same problem that privilege has. You either reject your White privilege, which shows that you have White privilege, or accept it. If you fully accept it, you are supposed to defer on a whole range of opinions to "POC."

Note that you are not merely supposed to defer to POC on issues of their subjective experience of race, but also on a wide area of practical policy issues, such as finding schools through local property tax levies, criminal justice reform, affirmative action, etc.

It's a sociological claim that is unfalsifiable. It recalls Freud in a way, since every objection becomes reducable to explanations of privilege and fragility.

Too be sure, there is plenty of data to support a strong economic and social divide between racial groups. Blacks use and sell drugs at the same rate as Whites but are over 2 times as likely to go to prison for it. Black wealth is just 1% of White wealth on average. Disparities in wealth are easily traced back to historical events that were driven by racist intent.

That said, inequality as a whole is driven by mass migration. It's ostentatiously true that adding millions of poor, low skilled immigrants to a population will reduce equality at least temporally. I would argue it has done so over a long term by eroding unions and class solidarity, lowering wages to a point where they can't pay for new housing construction, and rasing demand for housing.

Such an analysis is generally cast aside by the left as victim blaming (victim blaming is not necessarily a logical fallacy) and as not complying to the undeniable truth of a manichean struggle between White Supremacy and "the oppressed."

Modern race theorists may allow that "White Supremacy," hurts Whites. They generally do not allow that POC have completing interests and that the lens of racialist views is not the best way to solve issues of inequality and assimilation.

>>15756433
>Most of the racism I faced in school were from Black people, but if you say anything against them they'd report you or get violent.
Massa, massa, massa, he said the mean word to me! Have him fired right now!

>>15756437
They sure don't voice themselves enough.

>>15754731
kendi literally wants to have the united states entirely ruled by a government department of antiracism aka just guys who follow his ideology lol

>>15756433
>but if you say anything against them they'd report you or get violent.
Did you consider that maybe they didnt do anything?

>>15756437
What are some prominent ones?

>>15756437
When they have any real influence or can meaningfully oppose this sort of thing, I'll care. Until then, they can go back and jerk each other off while reading Marx and Kropotkin.

>>15756495
Why is every solution I see lately from leftoids is more bureaucratic nonsense

>>15756433
This jives with my experience. The most virulent racism I've seen has been black students and residents in my city randomly attacking whites and Asians while screaming racial epithets.

One kid at my school ended up with brain damage after being stomped by a group of black kids who's reasoning was "we wanted to snuff a white boy."

We had some pretty brutal mass beatings of Asian kids, and had a sports team singled out, whites separated from blacks and Latinos, and then just the whites beaten.

No doubt were the races reversed it would be literal front page news.

Larger small scale race riots happen not infrequently in America. Last summer Baltimore had an epidemic of mostly younger blacks flash mobbing downtown and looting and beating people. While on general these were just riots, there were several incidents of whites being severally beaten as mobs surrounded them and yelled racial epithets. When BPD told be to avoid the area and be wary after several people were hospitalized and stated that some of the rioters were a serious risk, they were called out by the City Council for racism.

>>15756547
Most people in the US have no idea how much black on white crime like this there is. Even the few news organizations that will report on it when it happens never explicitly state what is really happening there.

>>15756437
>a world of leftists who despise the New Yorker and think this book is poison
Please direct me towards these leftists who do not engage in virulent anti-white rhetoric.
Do it right now.

>>15756437
The problem is that the left is pointless. You don't want to understand capitalism and you don't want to understand these people. You don't understand capitalism because you think we could have something more than a darwinist ecosystem if we just could get rid of profiteers and capital. You don't want to understand what these people are doing because you're too weak to conceive of the system as one of racial grifting
The left sells a "story" to stupid people (or very cynical people) and mobilize them that way, fine, but there's no substance to it and it's a waste of energy to work within your "story" because it's ultimately nonsense that can't be fixed

>>15754692
It's already part of most education curriculums in coastal areas.

>>15756547
>>15756560
The most demoralized I get is when I see how systematically and deliberately the media distorts racial violence. It's full-on intentional coverup shit. There are innumerable heinous cases like black guys going up to a mother and shooting her baby in its stroller every year but we never hear about any of it, and then one black guy slips and falls on some ice and the world needs to kiss their feet.

I'm not even fucking racist but you can only take so much before you realize these people aren't just biased, they want to destroy you.

>>15756439
Wait, a teachers' union ousted university faculty? How does that happen? That's the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do.

>>15756547
US race relations are like the relation between a spineless wine mom and her delinquent son. The child can do no wrong, and if he appears to, somehow, it's never their own fault - outside forces conspired against him to force him into action against his own will.

>>15756586
He didn't lose his faculty job, he just got forced to step down from being the VP of research at MSU.

>>15756588
Black Pilled made a perfect analogy when he compared blacks in America to that child in Twilight Zone episode that could make people disappear.

Black people are essentially the Tatars of America, a nation in a nation, completely visible and distinct. I don't think white privilege is a fully descriptive way to talk about this phenomena, rather it seems like an idea designed to affect change rather than even try to be accurately descriptive.

That said there is an interesting cultural analysis of how blacks in America are the one group in America to really have racial consciousness, the one group (even more so than American Indians or whites) for whom a sort of pseudo-national identity exists

>>15756439
>should not share data that runs afoul

What fucking reality is this?

>>15756620
What you said about a "nation within a nation" reminded me of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE-KCTzhSLg

I love the fact that actual African migrants work much harder in the US than African Americans who have a much higher IQ but they just sit and collect welfare and bitch about racism and oppression.
They actually despise African Americans and how lazy they are.

>>15756620
Emphasis on the pseudo, because the state likes to keep them in this permanent limbo between a people with national identity and an atomized degenerate mass of people with no hopes and no identity whatsoever. The ideal way to do this is welfare and by coddling them and covering up their problems, just enough that they have no upward mobility and remain perpetually "a problem."

That way white America has a neverending thorn in its ass distracting it from cultivating its own identity. Now Mexicans are being thrown in the mix.

>>15756620
>That said there is an interesting cultural analysis of how blacks in America are the one group in America to really have racial consciousness, the one group (even more so than American Indians or whites) for whom a sort of pseudo-national identity exists
>
*

>>15756642
White America is dead, democrats will win every election thanks to demographics it's time to move on.

>>15756646
how about no lol

>>15756646
There is one last chance for a populist backlash and a reconstituted conservative movement if we get lucky. The best hope there is that Trump barely squeaks by, the Democrat party continues to crumble under its own contradictions (as the party of race-baiting hysterics and neo-liberal status quo maintainers loyal to business), and a new Republican party or third party forms around broad issues. Possibly war or great depression.

Even then the demographic issues are too far gone to fix. Mexico is informally annexing half the country.

But if Biden wins then yes you are correct, that's all she wrote for America. Only two outcomes are possible at that point: either a slow descent into Brazilian wealth-stratified mestizo soup, or the same descent, but it provokes a civil war in a decade or two as violence against the dwindling white population becomes normalized.

>>15756646
Not mathematically possible due to the nature of American voting system. If GOP becomes non-viable then a new party will replace them.

>>15756635
>who have a much higher IQ
Not really, African immigrants to the US are highly self-selected by our immigration laws - Nigerians in the US are one of the wealthiest ethnic groups.

>>15756643
? do you really think there's a group in america with a greater racial consciousness, other than white posters on obscure forums?

>>15756642
I think maybe it's important to note that the Tatars were generally Anti-Communists. Keeping a people generally outside of your institutions is a good strategy to keep them from becoming genuine revolutionaries, because it's precisely those institutions which inculcate revolutionary attitudes. It was the Navy in 1917 and the schools now.


I think these anti-police protests when led by Blacks are genuinely not revolutionary in character, and probably address real grievances. Certainly not looking to have a debate about police in this country though.

>>15756696
All black movements in the US are organized by whites.

>>15756696
Which is to say white participation in these protests is explicitly revolutionary in character and only justified second by participating in "revolt on behalf".

>>15756705
I think the early stages of the Minneapolis protests were pretty obviously spontaneous, resembling centuries of uprisings like that

Of course that was a very short period of the protests, but I reject fully the idea that they were at first led by whites. White leftists were caught offguard

>>15756696
>? do you really think there's a group in america with a greater racial consciousness, other than white posters on obscure forums?
seriously m8. Which country has a massively powerful lobby organized by its American diaspora

>>15756705
>whites
Who do you think funded BLM?

>>15756635
>They actually despise African Americans and how lazy they are.
That's because the despise is mutual

>>15756723
Early on, white leftists were hoping to use it as a springboard for a greater "revolution." It's clear that failed to the extent that "anti-idpol" is no longer a tenable position.

>>15756705
Yeah, "whites"

>>15756696
>real grievances
They are really grieving. As a population, politically speaking, they're in palliative care. Like the native americans who drink themselves to death or whatever. Everyone knows this, this is why their grievances are taken seriously
It's not really about police brutality

>>15754756
This post was written by a jelly-like slime, oozing across the surface of the Earth. It is an accomplishment that it has not been crushed to a pulp under a well-meaning heel.

>>15756756
i think it's clear that black people have legitimate grievances about their place in the country as a race of people, except to be used as a fulcrum by other groups hoping for totally different outcomes

>>15756769
Have you ever driven around a black neighborhood in a major american city?

I'm not saying there aren't clear A to B to C reasons for why it got this bad, but the police are genuinely and regularly violating people's civil rights. In Baltimore they have cameras up on residential blocks and when someone goes out to smoke a cig, they have a car do a pass to check if it's weed. It's full on Chinashit and helps nothing since there's nothing for black people in these neighborhoods to do except escape and try and assimilate with white liberals, something I'd rather kill myself than do, and I'm white.

>>15756806
This is literally a lie. They don't even bother to police minor crime by blacks. Pretty much the only city that does so is NYC

>>15756774
Blacks do have legitimate grievances, but 1. Does their perception match reality? 2. Do they ever accept even the slight notion that some of their grievances are caused by their very own communities?

>>15754756
Don’t care, voting trump

>>15756576
>There are innumerable heinous cases like black guys going up to a mother and shooting her baby in its stroller every year
lol wut

>>15756723
There's no such thing as a spontaneous mass uprising. White leftists were probably ready to go with these riots when the right events happened. It's an election year!

>>15756819
That blacks face judicial discrimination in America is pretty much undeniable at this point. All you have to do is look at the stats. Yes, some of it is indeed explained by higher rates of black criminality, but most of it is not.

>>15756708
The white kids are engaged in left-left conflict. Like in the 60s, they've decided that it's time for Daddy to retire so that they can have his job in the State apparatus, they're hundreds of thousands in debt after all.

>>15756858
there are way too many of them now though. You can't make the entire population of middle class retards who went to college part of the managerial class

>>15756819
It's not a lie my friend, I saw it with my own eyes, and I urge you to take the police state seriously before it affects you. Police in these places have arrest quotas and they lie like the devil. I'm certainly not claiming they're doing an effective job nor that they stop even a fraction of the crime going on. They don't care and their motivations and incentives are around expanding surveillance and control. So much the better for them if petty crimes are unchecked, that they can reasonably credibly accuse anyone of a crime.

>>15756842
Of course not but that doesn't mean you shouldn't distinguish them from the movement which co-opted the genuine human misery of these people and places

>>15756806
So remove all police. Let them police themselves. Give them free reigns to create the perfect place where they're policed just the right amount. White policing is obviously too strict/racist so go ahead and try something that'll make them happy, put their lives in hands of people (other black people) who really cares about policing black people the right way

>>15756854
????

Peasants revolts are some of the best written about phenomena of the medieval and early modern period, and they were almost always prompted by a group with a wide range of underlying grievances being provoked by some act of violence by an agent of the aristocracy. It's further important to note that these people were almost always dire traditionalists who revolted in the name of God and the King or Regent, against the middle class or aristocracy.

>>15756858
yes absolutely, except that you need to distinguish between "left" and "left" when one side is in charge of the state apparatus and the other, for good reasons of bad (and they're bad) has decided to dismantle it.

>>15754415
>Your new bible
I’m in the middle of writing it right now

>>15756882
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a race or people to want to be administered by their own. Who were the judenrat?

This is all completely in line with what I suspect you believe. It's not important to defend the status quo when it lies in conflict with not only your views but the course of reality.

>>15756842
It is a game of disguises. They have been specifically separated from freedom by the guise of protecting them from criticism. It is the unconscious and atavistic spirit of post-colonialism taking the guise of its opposition, motivated by the heretical/hauntological spectre of the Christian church's 'universal' dream. This is how the whip comes back.

>>15756895
The state apparatus is being centralized not dismantled. The main goals of BLM are federalizing the police and strengthening the Civil Rights bureaucracy.

>>15756909
Why not let the people who are complaining about policing vote? At least give them the chance to say that they want to be policed by their own

>>15756849
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Antonio_Santiago

Barely made the news, mostly local.

>>15756931
a fair point

>>15756909
>>15756909
>I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a race or people to want to be administered by their own.
When segregation was ended every black with the means got out of the black neighborhoods as fast as humanly possible. You can't have "black self-government" without segregation because once a government forms, the people at the top of the government will get rich - and immediately move away to white areas.

>>15756477
>Blacks use and sell drugs at the same rate
use, maybe.
sell, no fucking way. I have never once in more than a decade and a half, bought hard drugs from someone who wasn’t black (or Puerto Rican).
the reason black people get longer sentences for drug crimes is because they get charged with possession WITH INTENT TO DISTRIBUTE, while white people just get charged with possession.
plus whites are usually able to afford better legal representation.

>>15756953
yeah i mean you've articulated the central dilemma of race in america, though again you've left out the conditions blacks emigrating to white areas do so on, namely that they recuse their black identities and become sublimated blacks in white masks

>>15756937
>The murder received national and even international attention due to the victim's young age
>Slifer, Stephanie (August 30, 2013). "De'Marquise Elkins Guilty: Teen convicted of murder in shooting of Ga. baby Antonio Santiago". cbsnews.com.
>"Teen guilty of murdering Georgia baby in stroller". usatoday.com. August 30, 2013.
>"Marn, 18, Guilty of murdering baby in Georgia". dispatch.com. August 31, 2013.
>Carreras, Iris (September 13, 2013). "Antonio Santiago Murder Update: De'Marquise Elkins, Ga. teen convicted of killing baby in stroller, sentenced to life in prison". cbsnews.com.
>"Brunswick Baby Shooting: Mum Gives Evidence". sky.com. August 28, 2013.
>"Georgia man convicted of shooting baby Antonio Santiago". bbc.com. August 30, 2013.

>>15754415
Kill yourself.

Some good points made ITT from both sides with minimal /pol/itics. Keep it up /lit/

>>15755296
this
simple as.
these people are just vicious anti-white racists. it’s disgusting.

my main problem with white nationalists is that they see black people in an adversarial way and engage with black identity and life in this country only to feel better about themselves

white people should look to black people and places and read them a warning for the future which is intended for us

>>15756975
They're happy to do that to get away from other blacks though. The obvious solution to "race relations" in the US is basically to realize that segregation mostly made sense, although some of its features (get on the back of the bus negro!) were obviously retarded, and in other ways didn't go far enough - the black areas should have been effectively given local autonomy. Obviously the best solution would've been creating a black state after the CW or relocating them. What we have now is the worst of all possible outcomes.

>>15756994

>>15754756
>sympathetic
hahahaha

More like showing fake sympathy so you can get past their defense mechanisms, which shows an utter lack of disrespect.

>>15757008
It would be infinitely funnier if the posts were switched

>>15757001
yes but you can't blame them for lack of foresight, an insight about the inevitability of an interior people, always identifiable at a hundred yards as members of that separate nation, isn't something anyone in 1865 could have acted on.

Those who wished for a freedman colony in Liberia and those who could have advocated for a free state in the US were on opposite sides recognizing the same thing but unable to bring either about. fwiw I think if I was Frederick Douglass i would have been apoplectic at the thought of being sent to Liberia.

>>15756999
I don't even see blacks in an adversarial way honestly, like most of my friends I was raised bog standard liberal and went through a leftist activist phase. Now all of my friends are ironically unironic about saying nigger every five seconds and talking about how race war is inevitable, but it's mostly a front for the hopelessness of the situation. Every one of them drops the act and is a decent person toward blacks and other minorities the first chance they get.

There is genuine animosity in some cases, like I will be honest, it would take a lot to persuade me to live in a "black community" again after tolerating them robbing, threatening, and harassing me and my loved ones constantly, and their general shitty attitudes making life unbearable and turning everything into slum conditions. But I agree with you, these are warning signs of what happens when a people is ground into the dirt and robbed of any autonomy and community.

I don't give a shit about bickering over IQ differences, I just don't want to live like a nigger or around niggers, regardless of their race. I know at least from my friend group (which is typical of "4chan racism" as far as I can tell) that many others are like me as well.

>>15757030
Not really, many normal people understood these issues in the 1800s. The US just didn't have the money to relocate blacks, and the religious commitment to egalitarianism prevented them from doing something like creating autonomous territories.

>Those who wished for a freedman colony in Liberia and those who could have advocated for a free state in the US were on opposite sides recognizing the same thing but unable to bring either about. fwiw I think if I was Frederick Douglass i would have been apoplectic at the thought of being sent to Liberia.
Americo-Liberians quickly formed a Southern-style plantation aristocracy with a racial hierarchy upon their arrival, and enslaved the natives, while being only 2% of the population. Douglass would've been in the aristocracy, he was a lightskin as well, wasn't he?

how is the same bait still getting replies blm was a month ago

>>15757054
yes but as you say he was committed to liberal egalitarianism and convinced by his experience that reconstruction was possible

>>15756981
Yeah, like I said. The "received national and even international attention" line was put in the Wikipedia article because of people complaining how little press it received. One more cynical, condescending fuck you from people who think they're being moral crusaders by covering up crimes like this.

Some violent drugged-out criminal died, tragically, during an arrest. The nation burns. Blacks rape and murder whites constantly, CBS reports it if it's as egregious as executing a child with a bullet to the face. Wow!

Your first thought wasn't, what the fuck, a baby was shot in the face? Your first thought was "nuh-uh!! they DID report it!! See????" That's the whole point.

>>15757054
>he was a lightskin as well, wasn't he?
His father was white.

>>15754677
>If you deny the existence of 'white fragility' you affirm its existence by instantiating a token of its abstract type. Meta-ontological discourse is obviated from the beginning because you can't deny it's existence without affirming its existence. The discourse starts at the ontological level first, this is built into the concept itself.
So if I deny I have 10 million dollars on my bank account, I actually do have 10 million dollars on my bank account? Outstanding logic, anon.

>>15757054
Also I think it's wrong to attribute Americo-Liberian hegemony in Liberia to colorism rather than the classic invisible lines of power which really relate people and power. Connection and access to power is and always has been the condition onto which race and color can only grapple.

For comparision, the American White is really a mix of incredibly diversity from populations across Europe which have become invisible. The truth is however, if we could see where one's white ancestors were from (and we can with effort) what we see is that Scotch-English Americans represent the upper strata of American life even today, while people of Polish descent are more likely to live in a trailer park than other Whites.

While one could certainly decide this represents a genetic superiority of one clade of Whites I think it more obviously shows the hard lines of generational wealth and power, which pass not only though inherited resources, but though stable childhoods, and most importantly of all, networks of peers which decade after decade give the same families access to power.

This is of course seen among Jews who probably represent the most intensely insular group in this way, but another striking example is in the UK, that having a Norman last name instead of an Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian last name is an excellent predictor of your current social rank.

All this said, nobody can be blamed for wanting to hire and be around those they already know, or to give opportunities to the people they care about. It's just these understandable motives give rise to world-historical social tensions.

>>15756993
>>15756994
ah, the duali-DEAN of man

>>15754756
You are such a slime that I cannot even grind you for exp

>>15757037
Pretty much exactly me. Good post.

>>15756696
>>15756669
>>15756642
>>15756620
>>15756576
>>15756567
>>15756547
>>15756477
>>15756471
>>15755255
>>15755168
>>15755122
>>15755088
>>15755084
>>15754756
>>15754731
>>15754677
All of these are from the same person.

>>15757037
>>15757113
also these
>>15757164

>>15757164
no but I have been spamming the thread a little too much, mb

>>15757164
No they're obviously not.

>>15757113
I'm not saying that they ruled BECAUSE they were light-skins. It's just that once they got power they formed a colorist hierarchy, just like the South's racial hierarchy.

>>15754756
I actually read the book and I don't know what you're talking about. Where in the book does it sympathize with white people in a non-condescending way? Also, I don't believe white men and suicide rates were covered in the book.

>>15757211
The person who made that post is literally just mocking white men for having high suicide rates and then claiming that calling that fragility is actually sympathy. They are scum and you shouldn't respond to them as though they're human.

>>15754731
I read the book and would agree with some points as well; however, the points I would agree with are very broad and in no way anybody would deny, and they don't have much to do explicitly with white fragility.

>>15757198
except they didn't there were plenty of dark skinned presidents before Samuel Doe

>>15754415
All you guys should read this book. Don't pay for it, just download it online. It's a quick read and will help you gain a better understanding of NPC-nature.

>>15757263
lmao that image is amazing, he looks so happy, just livin' in the moment.
I do think this is good advice, and that to promote neuroplasticity you should always seek ideas far from your own, including patently wrong ideas like this book

>>15757037
preach brother

>>15754415
I know everyone is bored and people are a lot drunker and more stoned lately because of the government-mandated shutdowns and stuff, but COME ON!
You can come up with something better than this for bait. Just try posting sober for a change...

If black people hate America and its racist system so much why don't they move back to Africa?

>>15757626
Have you ever watched vlogs or read articles about AA who moved back there? All of them seemed pretty happy. The truth is, we could basically relocate the blacks there with like $50k each, and they would take over most of the continent - but white liberals would be deprived of a faux-revolutionary subject if that happened.

I actually just read this. Had some interesting points. Y’all should check it out. The author is insufferable. About 80% of the books is wack but I legitimately got a few things out of it.

One being that black people have to think about their skin constantly and I do not.

>>15757233
I read it too and felt the same way. Nothing she says is ground breaking and but a lot of it isn’t wrong either. Over all I didn’t get much out of it besides now I am comfortable pointing at black people to my kids and telling them that it’s ok to call them black people.

>>15757689
>One being that black people have to think about their skin constantly and I do not.
A funny thing that blacks who move to Africa from the US always say is that it's so refreshing to live in a country where everyone is black and they don't have to feel perpetually aware of being so. It's perfectly reasonable to feel that way, but white liberals don't want them to go because they need a sacral victim to venerate to remind them of their sins against equality.

>>15754415
The new ancestral sin: being white

What a witch hunt

>>15757626
Africa was already ruined by white colonialism. And black people are part of America as much as white people. Why don't white people move back to Europe instead?

>>15757735
Because blacks are always going to feel disadvantaged in America but they could be literal Kangs in Africa. Nothing you do is going to achieve equality of outcome with whites in the long run.

>>15757735
How do you 'ruin' a continent? Especially since what they mostly did was build civilization out of wilderness

>>15754677
>Racist blacks, jews, hispanics, arabs, and self hating whites call white people racist as political strategy.

No need for such a silly effort post.

>>15757752
Not that guy but i think it's debatable whether inserting sociopolitical structures which centuries past the developmental and organizational level of the civilization they're being grafted on to is "good". It's always the case that such changes which disrupt the existing social order are violent and dangerous, and altogether possible that a transition directly from tribal federation to civil government wasn't the quickest route a civilization can take between those points.

>>15754415
Fuck out of here with that shit.

>>15756328
>class struggle is actually a means to deflect from the more fundamental reality: race struggle
most clever jew trick desu
Thinking racial privilege is more of a struggle than class is so smart cause it allows all the Asians and Indians in law and medical school who are there because their rich family fully payed for their tuition to still claim they're oppressed

>>15756849
>wut

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-suspect-slash-video-20200702-kud5qc4zqvbf5pgkqp3mjjt5ee-story.html

just happened an hour ago kek, good timing

>Police released video of a man they say slashed a 2-year-old boy's face while he was in a stroller with his babysitter.

>>15754415
Why does she call it 'white fragility' when a more accurate term is 'white defensiveness'? It's just how white people respond when they perceive their power and privilege is being threatened (i.e. when other races make progress) and try to defend it.

>>15755204
It's gaslighting because the "racism" that the book seeks to expose doesn't fucking matter. There is nothing wrong with white people preferring to work with, live near, and marry their own over others. There is nothing wrong with white people not being able to appreciate that black people are sensitive over how their hair doesn't fit the beauty standards of white culture. There is nothing wrong with the fact that white people have a cultural and legal tradition that they wish to uphold in their own fucking societies and that there are conflicts with other populations who exist within white societies is not a problem white people have moral culpability for.

>>15757072
>Your first thought wasn't, what the fuck, a baby was shot in the face? Your first thought was "nuh-uh!! they DID report it!! See????" That's the whole point.
that's because you posted a wrong statement that had to be proven wrong so you would shut up
also you're missing the part where cop brutally murdering someone is quite different from someone who is not part of fucking law enforcement also murdering someone - the latter happens and will always happen, the first should not in any circumstances

>>15757164
One of those posts was me. None of the others were. I understand you can't comprehend there are multiple people who don't view things the same way as you, but it happens sometimes.

>>15756119
A female version of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Na4Ya3MvI

>>15758542
It wasn't a wrong statement, I said it was barely reported, and you verified this. A baby being shot in the face merits more than CBS and local news covering it once or twice. This level of violence happens every day and none of that is covered either.

The fact that you think Floyd was "brutally murdered" and everyone on earth knows his name, and you are quibbling over whether a black man shooting a white baby in the face got sufficient local coverage, proves my point. But I'm arguing with someone who has been hollowed out and turned into a twitter bot by ideologues, which is always dumb. Tranny.

>>15758542
How can you not understand the relationship between civilian violence and police violence? You really believe that stochastic civilian brutality isn't preventable, but stochastic police violence is (for some reason you can't actually explain)? Have you ever actually left your house and been to a black neighborhood? It's obvious in like 5 God damn seconds why these cops are like this in Black areas.

>>15758435
Because it's trying to make fun of whites for being weak. Just because these people are generally humorless doesn't mean they don't sometimes try to be funny.

for me, it's po/lit/itcs. the best 4chan board.

>>15758668
/pol/ has ruined this site

>>15758750
/pol/ didn't write White Fragility and make it the most talked about book of the past month

>>15758601
oh what a surprise, you're another one of those idiots blind to facts and logic. tell me about just local news covering it once more
>This level of violence happens every day and none of that is covered either.
because who fucking cares? have you ever thought about why most car crashes are never reported even when their are fatalities? yeah, that's right, because this shit happens every single fucking day and a cop murdering someone on duty is out of any prerequisites one can have for normalcy of police conduct.
you're as /pol/ npc as it gets. nothing but reveling in some kind of idpol polemics. fuck off

>>15758609
>You really believe that stochastic civilian brutality isn't preventable, but stochastic police violence is (for some reason you can't actually explain)?
of course it's not, but why not is a completely different matter altogether. what's important to observe here is that popular liberal view is that police is supposed to counteract incitements to violence and situations like this crumble all those presuppositions
>Have you ever actually left your house and been to a black neighborhood?
no, because I'm not an american shitstain, but we have an equivalent of niggers you're talking about here (that are still of the same white race and ethnicity as the rest of us), so I'd dare to say that I know what you're talking about. if anything it only proves that it's their material condition that makes them into this scum of society and not the color of their skin and I imagine it holds true for the US

>>15758553
That is one of the funniest things I've seen all week lol

>>15757092
Brainlet response. He's not saying that is the case; he's saying that is how proponents of these theories interpret it.

>>15756566
/r/stupidpol

+Angela Nagel, the Red Scare girls, Amiee Terese and company etc.

>>15758780
>because who fucking cares?

We know you don't because you're a tranny. You are deranged beyond saving, as your dissembling shitpost proves. But normal people still need to know about the ridiculous black on white crime epidemic.

>>15758849
me and the girls and coming for you tonight, white boi

>>15758880
At least you know to differentiate yourself from "the girls." Maybe you're less deluded than the other trannies.

>>15758885
read a book, normie

>>15758780
You do not understand. I've spent time in many parts of Eastern European and West Asia, and it is a totally different situation. Black Americans literally have 10 times the per capita violent crime rate of White Americans. It isn't a question of some gopnik subpopulation, it's literally an entirely different country within the American nation.

>>15758943
>Black Americans literally have 10 times the per capita violent crime rate of White Americans.
so do lumpens here as opposed to the rest of society, your point?

>>15758943
It's hundreds of times for certain crimes. They put every other minority to shame.

>>15759021
No. They literally don't. There are no white populations in Europe with a murder rate even close to the Black American murder rate. I understand your inexperience and ideological priors have convinced you of something you are completely incorrect about but you should really not butt into problems you don't have the slightest interest in coming to understand.

>>15759047
maybe if you count Chechens as white kek

>>15754756
Lmao. Insulting people by calling them fragile is sympathetic?

>>15759060
Dude, the per capita murder rate for Black Americans is over 25 per 100,000. That's 4 times the Chechen per capita murder rate.

>>15759097
>>15759047
The retard you're arguing with will now either vanish and repeat the same lies to someone less prepared to combat them tomorrow, or he'll start falling back onto "kek lmao loling @ u rn" irreverent trannyspeak.

>>15754677
so did you just take critical theory

>>15759097
the murder rate in Russia in general is lik 6 or 7, the Chechen minority there has got to be higher considering the Russians are all afraid of them

>>15756119
What are those flaps on her neck?

Anyone else not really mind this stuff. It's fun being the bad guys, I wish they'd ramp it up a noch so it gets interesting.

>>15759113
I'm not 100% sure of the breakdown within Russia but the Chechen Republic's per capita civilian murder rate is listed as 1.1 per 100k as of 2017. The stats cited on Wikipedia separate civilian murder from political murder so I'm not sure the true murder rate but it's not fucking 25-30 per 100k year over year like the Black American murder rate. Lysova and Shcitov's paper about murder in Russia estimated the Chechen population to be responsible for about 8.2 murders per 100k in Russia (or about 26% over the national average ~6.5/100k) but that's still putting them at 1/3rd of the Black homicide rate even with that paper's inclusion of political murder into the numbers.

>STILL samefriending on a thread full of people who have spotted it

>>15757123
pelton-pilled

>>15759047
>There are no white populations in Europe with a murder rate even close to the Black American murder rate.
absolutely worthless opinion for anyone who's not a complete moron, you have no statistics on that
>I understand your inexperience and ideological bla bla bla I better type like this so maybe I will impose my authority on those who are even dumber than me
look, you know why what you're postulating even came into existence? because that shit is purely based on race and there are no statistics being prepared everywhere where it comes to other criteria they could be based on. why do you think it matters? why race is the be all end all prerogative for all valid claims in your and pretty much everyone else's perception? because for me it isn't, it shouldn't be, that crucial to one's worldview

>>15754415
>one time, I was scared of black people
>therefore, all whites are racist
Grade A thinking from miss DiAngelo

>>15759532
There is a population within America which is 13% of the population and is responsible for well over 50% of homicide year after year. The number one cause of death for Black men in America under 35 is homicide. That isn't the case for any other racial group regardless of age. You're literally coming up with any reason except for the one that is consistently present to explain this reality.

>>15759636
why do you lump in ghetto blacks with those who hold positions in power (politicians, celebs, certain artists and sportsmen etc.), like how does that make any fraction of sense to you in your head to present them all as a singular entity? if anything you're of the kind that BLMers and such believe that legitimizes their message

>>15759716
I lump ghetto Blacks in with the White presenting ones who have power because the ones who have power should be providing leadership to their fucking people and taking accountability for the disgrace that is most of their culture. John Legend doesn't get to be a "Black activist" while living in a 99% White neighborhood and never setting foot on the territory his people have claimed because it's too dangerous.

>>15759737
>because the ones who have power should be providing leadership to their fucking people and taking accountability for the disgrace that is most of their culture
haha as if most of them make any actual appeals to their culture or care about unrelated blacks who are ten social classes below them just because of the skin color
that's like blaming american-born jews for atrocities of israel or christ killing gorillion years ago lmao

...oh wait

>>15759716
Because they act as a single entity. The educated, successful ones still consider themselves part of the same racial group, and will fight for that group's interests.

>>15759816
Expecting Elites to have responsibility for the people they come from is too much for you? No wonder you're confused about why Black people commit so much crime compared to Whites. You ever notice that when a White cop kills a Black drug addict it's the White race that needs to apologise but Black "leaders" can't be held accountable for the literal third world tier violence their people commit?

>>15759816
Even if they don't actually care they still go on TV and complain about the oppression of "their people" even if they don't actually identify with them. "Black" is seen as a monolithic racial category regardless of what your social status is. You can see this in how people talk about the black criminals killed by cops and how it's an issue for the whole race and not just black criminals, often of low social standing.

>>15755168
>One basic tenet of academic discussions is that concepts such as White Fragility must be clearly defined because otherwise all debate is based on supposition.
Shut the fuck up. There is no "academic discussion" about race in the United States that isn't a curated struggle session about what is the next thing white americans need to do to make up for their inherited sin of participating in the "white privilege" conspiracy theory.

the lowercase anti-racist comes off as very dishonest

>>15756471
Yes this

>>15756547
>No doubt were the races reversed it would be literal front page news.
I don't understand why this isn't an effective argument, no one fucking cares no matter how many times you point it out.

>>15760298
Because whites are the largest, and generally speaking, the most succesful racial group in America. They also lack the tragic legend that other groups have (slavery, loss of land, illegal immigrants fron hellish slums etc.). Culture of American aristocracy is still very Anglo-American. Asians also don't play victim as often as others, mostly because problems that Asian immigrants faced are at least 50 years old and people who faced them are mostly unrelated to succesful Asian population of modern US.

>>15758772
/pol/ killed 4chan seven or eight years ago now

>>15754415
200 more years of unrestricted Capitalism you say??

The pendulum always swings back, enjoy burning up all the goodwill you’ve gained with ignorant yet benevolent whites, BLM looting has set back race relations 50 years blah blah blah. Its all so very tiresome. I’m white, I don’t dislike people based on their race, and I’m on the left. IDPOL is such a fucking joke, it really was the capitalist’s final and greatest trick. There will never be class solidarity if the working class is expected to kowtow to black trans activists (~0.004% of the population). The left doesn’t want the working class and corporate politicians on both sides of the aisle got us by the balls.
Just sit back and watch this bullshit unfold, forever. These idiots can keep protesting and consooming all they want. Maybe when they’re clinging to their last few seconds of sweet life while lying on their hospital deathbed they’ll reflect on their actions and realize that they managed to invoke token change at best, and reinforced the corporate authoritarian hegemony at worst. Im washing my hands of this clusterfuck

>>15756696
>? do you really think there's a group in america with a greater racial consciousness, other than white posters on obscure forums?
jews

>>15761841
kek

>>15761893
yeah if you fucking read the thread you'd see like four people already brought that up hours ago

>I think she [NPR reporter who talked about “white fragility”] makes a very salient point. I don't think of myself as racist, but am certain that I am in a way I don't realise. For me, I'd like to better understand what's going on, but as a middle-aged white man I am definitely the demographic that is most strongly identified as being racist and misogynistic. There's lots of things that are racist, that I didn't realise were racist.
Remember, racism isn’t just hating people for their race. Its a series of countless microaggressions and subatomic assertions of white privilege that are constantly being discovered, redefined, and weaponized against well-meaning white folk
When everything’s racist, nothing will be.
These racebaiting stooges are leading America down a very dangerous path. White folk are still the majority, and pushing them like this is sure to end poorly once they inevitably decide to start fighting back

>>15756646
That's not what will happen, the GOP will simply shift to the left to account for this, and new topics will become wedge issues. Gay marriage is a fantastic example: ever since Obergefelle v. Hodges, the Republicans' contesting of gay marriage has dwindled down to zero, and the new issue of contention is whether Buffalo Bill should be allowed to use the women's restroom.

>>15759187
I just want BLM to finally go full apartheid =[

>>15761892
No it doesn't. The right defends the values that leftists pushed on them 10 years prior, they've been losing ground for hundreds of years.

>>15755255
I mean, you could certainly find anecdotes to support your point, but I would say the data on oppression and suppression support a white advantage rather than a black advantage in general society.

Just because a majority of intellectuals write about white privilege and other watered down busswords doesn't mean it's representative of the west.

>>15755296
Honestly I don't hate whites. Internet right people love to attach straw man personalities to 100 word statements and Jesus fuck does it prove your vocal minority of you isn't capable of rational thought

>>15758534
I get the distinct impression you haven't read the book

>>15754415
He's right though, if you ask a white person about white racism, they will immediately try and shut down the topic to avoid talking about it. They'll either say that they accept racism exists, or they'll deflect wildly by talking about racism in third-world countries (whataboutism). Either way, they refuse to talk about it.

>>15754796
>I haven't read the book
Then shut the fuck up you ignorant shithead

>>15755255
Okay, then I can start defining communism as a government system with a bunch of faggot clerics in charge.

The author dies, it doesn't disappear

>>15755296
Nobody is fucking racist against white people

You guys are the my pathetic imaginary victims in the world and I hope you die bitter, poor, and alone

>>15756133
You should kill yourself

>>15756150
I think my wife, children, and business would disagree with you

>>15756328
Being as there's no racial theories discussed on lit, I would say they're true.

I've been here 11 years and it's all been ruined by you bitter, virgin right wing shitheads

>>15756388
I hope you die sad and alone you little bitch

>>15756437
You realize one essay isn't representative of a century old publication, right?

Why does everyone on this board build huge artificial groups of people who disagree with you and then stick their head so far up their ass they think it's an argument.

Fucking sockpuppet

>>15756495
That doesn't nullify his position on race relations. I swear you miserable, brainwashed dicks go through as many hoops as you can to feel like you're right and smarter than everyone else

>>15758668
People in this thread are literally discussing a book, It's a book about politics but its still a book.

>>15763193
>>15763201
>>15763207
>>15763210
>>15763226
Bruh, kinda cringe.

>>15763176
Do you know why?

>>15757689
>Y’all
dilate

>>15763157
>>15763193
You do, the framing of the issue in your mind is so fucked up that you don't see it. Its not your fault, this has been drilled into your head your whole life.

>>15763601

>>15763176
>whataboutism
Why do shitlibs love using this whenever they get called out on their hypocrisy?

>>15763193
>Nobody is fucking racist against white people

>>15754415

>>15763601
I think there's a lot of self deception in the anti-white sphere. You could give them a million different examples of systematic racism against white people like affirmative action and it won't make a difference to them. You could point out the anti-white prejudice at the foundation of BLM which was subsequently endorsed by virtually every major corporation in the US and it will roll off their backs. There are Democrat politicians openly advocating for minority politicians just because there are "too many old white men" in government and they're just not capable of seeing it.

A white man can't even openly make a joke about a black man without potentially being suspended from his school and his career ruined. If a white child smiles the wrong way at a native American, he needs to be ruined. If they can't see it, it's because they're willfully blind. These people are enemies and traitors and they deserve what these people have historically received.

>>15763165
I read the first 40 pages of the PDF and I understood very quickly that I don't give a fuck about this shakedown artist's bad faith takes.

>>15763876
She is now charging companies $12k for seminars with this recent hype kek

>>15763902
>White people don't like being forced to sit in my conferences at work where any strong opinions or defence of their character/beliefs could get them fired.
>That means they are fragile and need more of my conferences to help them with their original sin of passive omnipresent racism and nanoagressions.

>>15763176
Leftists are obsessed with guilt tripping, every time they are losing in a debate they use the magic R word

>>15756925
Where is this from?

>>15754677
>Meta-ontological
What?

>>15756566
Zizek, Badiou

>>15757843
He's just posturing to make his point seem more valid. Typical pseud

>>15756471
Out of curiosity when you say "I'm not like the other girl" what exactly do you mean? What exactly are you saying about yourself when you say you're a "leftist"? I'm asking this earnestly.

>>15756477
>You either reject your White privilege, which shows that you have White privilege,
It doesn't (unlike the fragility accusation). The issue is it immediately sets a frame work of "X is a privilege and if you have it that's bad" which is where whites fall for the trap and ultimately lose the argument.

>>15764102
the trap is impossible to get out of because of this
>>15756418

I'm not quite sure how people don't understand that there are only two options, either
a)racial disparities are due to white racism, or
b)racial disparities are due to actual race differences
You cannot say b). As soon as it became impermissible in society to say b) they had already won because they can always go back to this point.

>>15758780
>no, because I'm not an american shitstain, but we have an equivalent of niggers you're talking about here (that are still of the same white race and ethnicity as the rest of us
I'm not American either and we have shit here, but I have lived for a year in the US. Its on another level in the US, just admit you don't know what you're talking about and move on.

>>15764139
That's exactly my point. They're implicitly defining "privileged" and that it's bad and whites often don't challenge this.

>>15754774
book burning should be tradition

>>15758668
for me, it's /po/litics

Wtf people are nicer to their own kind and nepotism largely benefits people you know generally of the same race?

>>15764450
>people are nicer to their own kind
and cruel to others
such is humanity

>>15756843
BASED

>>15754415
https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/intellectual-fraud-robin-diangelos-white-fragility/

>>15764450
Not leftists though

>>15764450
People yes, leftists are not.

If you paid for this book you're a mark and nothing more. There are no ideas in it which are designed to do anything other than prop up the corprate HR industry. And it's so poorly written you couldn't differentiate it from a low effort essay from a community college student. I dont believe for one second that anyone intelligent is pushing this scam with honest intentions.

>>15764998
Your white is showing.

>>15755168
>The concept of white fragility cannot be independent from the writer's conception of it
It was a remarkably bad phrase to use as a book title. "White Fragility" was immediately stolen for use as another cudgel.

>>15754756
Why did the author choose the worst title and cover to get across a point of sympathy to white people?
The book wears its intentions literally on its cover, and its intentions are not to bring opposing groups together in constructive discussion.

>>15765213
As any book title, it is chosen to gather attention, which will maximize sales.
Retard.

>>15754415
Ah, I wonder if it comes in payforblack.

>>15755191
i

>>15755296
what the fuck is white?

>>15763176
>They'll either say that they accept racism exists, or they'll deflect wildly by talking about racism in third-world countries (whataboutism). Either way, they refuse to talk about it.
What else are you supposed to say?

>>15754415

Written by a self hating white woman
Self hatred is one of the biggest red flags there is
All self hating whites are mentally ill and should seek help

>>15764450
White liberals are the ONLY people in existence who have an outgroup preference.

>>15765789
Whoever has a light skin tone and can be slapped with the privilege label by whatever the unspoken standards of privilege are this week.

>>15763176
I think it's pretty natural to get defensive when someone calls you a racist. It's only the context of these shaming "conversations" and "seminars" that leftists pretend they don't use "racist" as a four-letter word in every other context, and that it isn't a label which has material consequences if it sticks. It's like if someone came up to you and wanted to have an "honest, open conversation" about your serial killer-ness, how you need to "unpack" your latent desire to rape/murder/disassemble young women, and then used your defensiveness against being labeled a serial killer as reason to assume you are more of a serial killer than they thought. And every person understands that when they're accused of "white fragility," they're getting slandered as a racist. Nobody buys your bullshit.

the nazi's believed in 'jewishness'. they believed all jews shared in 'jewish guilt'.
as science this 'whiteness' stuff is nonsensical. historically this stuff has always ended badly.

>>15765789
You know who white people are you dishonest retard.

>>15766110
yes the strawmans about the nazis are unsupportable madness, completely true, but few if any people actually thought any of those things and in-group preference is more or less an objective fact about what it is to be human

>>15754460
Good take pedro

>>15766145
adding on, there's no doubt there were insane nazis and the idea of destroying a race of people is evil, no doubt or qualification necessary. That said it's a huge gaping blind spot of modern ideology that such strawmans and extreme arguments are taken to be the whole body and work of the racial-concious "white" as you say, right wing.
This board and the predomination of "nazis" across it should show you that the ideas of the authoritarian right haven't been taken seriously enough to be argued against in earnest by mainstream liberal society, and instead they foment uncontested, because contesting them is seen as legitimizing. So shall it remain.

>>15757311
That is why I read books from psychos btw

>>15766166
it's not a straw man argument. it's a historical example.
if you believe there is such a thing as 'whiteness' do you also believe in a 'blackness'? a 'brownness'? a 'redness'? a 'yellowness'?
and do you not see how dangerous this all is?

>>15764450
What a crock of shit. This entire thread is proving the books title rather nicely.
>Wtf people are kill each other regardless of mythical race in order to conquer and take lands in the name of civilizationm resource gain and feel goodsies power? wtf

I swear to god everyone is so incredibly stupid. Go ahead and create your all white world stop bitching and complaining kill everyone thats not white and see how long it takes before you find another excuse to go to war and fight against each other after you're bested by higher iq whites and gradually lose your own intelligence after fucking your cousins for so long. It will make 0 difference. Start the race war already. Fuck all races. I'm sick of this shit.

>>15766236
>Go ahead and create your all white world stop bitching and complaining
There's been something like this a few times and every time minorities find reasons to invade and destroy it. White people are not allowed to live together, and this isn't true of other races, who are encouraged to do so. The white people need to welcome third worlders and let them have participation in their government so they can turn what was once a thriving country into another garbage third world nation.

>>15754677
>"you are white, therefore you are fragile"
>aah, but i do not identify as "white"
>"NOOO YOU HAVE PALE SKIN YOU CAN'T DO THAT REEEEE"

>>15766066
You're underestimating the white worship that's going on among communities of various kinds from Indians, Chinese to Arabs and more.

>>15766267
>Muh, muh encouragement...
Here's your gold participation star

>>15766352
I accept your concession.

>>15754677
>Baudrillard writes about left wing discourses being fundamentally about power not freedom or equality.

Sounds intriguing. Can you give me your source?

>>15766236
B A S E D

>>15765742
g

>>15766228
I think there is a thing which we could call "Blackness." Brownness I'm not sure because there's a lot of different brown people's but definitely there is a thing like "Latin-ness", or "Indian-ness" etc with subcontinental groups. I don't understand why you are so preoccupied with the danger of something that has been he consistent state of history outside of the last 30 or so years and will likely return to being the normal as universalist liberalism continues to show itself as a bill of false goods.

>>15766228
>>15766483
He's worried about the inherent divisiveness of those concepts, but you're correct: we don't get to decide the terms of this fight. We chased the dream of universal neoliberalism and regardless of what anyone would prefer, its assumptions just aren't true. Time to grieve and move on.

Blackness or Whiteness may not have strict definitions, but we all know what they mean, don't we?

>>15766506
Yeah man, but the thing is that people being divided doesn't mean they need to have bad relationships as groups. Strong fences make good neighbors has been a fairly successful international policy for millennia. Quite frankly outside of bourgeois neighborhoods where the Black/Brown people more or less assimilate into White progressive culture, we're already divided as it is. Might as well be honest about that reality and work together on those terms instead of pretending that all people(s) are functionally interchangable (read: capable of being White presenting) and then struggling when not everyone conforms to that standard and those expectations.

When we finally come to terms with the reality that there is no amount of school funding and bourgeois white teachers will make Black and Latino people just reskinned White people, then we can start making progress to actually giving them a decent quality of life.

>>15766166
How is critical race theory that different from far-right thought? Look at:
>>15756328
>>15756119
By the logic used in critical race theory even basic ideas of good/bad are shaped by race and part of a institutionalized white supremacy. Ironically, it still falls back on Anglo liberal-Protestant values, a manifestation of pure Whiteness if one ever existed, to declare that this is bad - emancipatory, egalitarian values, and even critical theory itself, go un-critiqued as manifestaitons of a power structure (that's literally white in the Anglo-Protestant sense).. There's only a short distance from Robin DiAngelo to Nazi Gigachad.

What's the three sentence rundown on this book?

>>15754460
¡Hola Juan! ¿Cómo estás?

>>15757860
Hilarious that you think the "choices" people made in the past where "choices", or that they were concerned with "the good" and not merely rationalised survival and success as "good".

You fucking troglydyte. ALL PEOPLE ARE THRUST.

GENERATIONAL CRITIQUE MAKES NO SENSE FOR PAST PEOPLES SANS IMMENSE CAPITAL ALTERNATIVE WHICH HONESTLY ONLY EXISTS NOW AND FOR MAYBE THE LAST 100 YEARS WITH THE LOOTING OF EUROPE.

>>15757164
2 iq moment

>>15756292
how antisemitic of her

>>15754415
Sorry, I'm only interested in good books.

>>15756460
t,pig
next time you post something like this please provide scale.

>>15766236
Oh ok i'll just create a white ethnostate then

>>15766334
They don't worship white people though, they find light skin attractive.

>>15754756
Paternalistic “kindness”