/lit/ - Literature

For me, it's Javier Marias, Mathias Enard, and William T. Vollmann.

>>15736571
me, nobel prize winners are all hacks

>>15736592
>Mathias Énard
Isn't he the one who wrote a passage in a novel about a guy who dreamt about being inseminated by an Arabic horse?

>>15736571
>Who should?
Pynchon or Krazsnahorkai

>Who will?
Krazsnahorkai, Cartarescu, Thiongo, or some random woman nobody outside of elite editorialship reads.

>>15736571
Bob Dylan, he has a new album

>>15736571
some black chick or some minority queer

>>15736571
A jogger if things go bad. An actual writer if things go well.

>>15736571
Kendrick Lamark should win this year

>>15736660
He's worse than Dylan.

>>15736632
Should i read Krazsnahorkai novels or just watch Tar's films? I heard people saying the movies are better.

>>15736592
>Javier Marías
top kek, even Vila-Matas is better

>>15736632
Cartarescu really deserves it, tho

>>15736863
Vila-Matas is a meme. He can't even properly title a book to save his life.

>>15736881
It may be a meme, but at least he's entertaining. And that's more that you could say about Marías, that boring industry plant.

>>15736571
Me, for my kane chronicles smut fanfiction

>>15736592
>>15736863
I genuinely don't understand how anyone could think Marías is even noteworthy, let alone Nobel-worthy

>>15736901
Marías is very entertaining and has an excellent prose. He has some meh books but some good ones as well.

>>15736964
>cómo se traduce "una prosa excelente" en inglés

an excellent prose

>>15736975
Yes.

>>15736945
I think it's because of nationalism. Spaniards want to feel that they are sorta relevant in the current literary landscape.

>>15736571
Londonfrog for his entire body of /lit/ OPs.

>>15737187
based

>>15736571
Murnane, Magris, Marias, or Krasznahorkai.

>>15736715
If we consider film and lit to be even slightly comparable mediums in prestige/quality, Satantango is considered a top 50ish film, whereas the novel is nowhere near that scale desu

>>15736945
Marías is better than some Nobel winners.

>>15737372
yeah but films been around for 1/20 the time of books. Which you enjoyed more?

>>15737372
>Satantango is considered a top 50ish film
Delusional.

>>15736571
I should win it for my diary desu

>>15737412
but diary of a wimpy kid already exists

>>15736571
It's Murakami's time.

>>15736632
Where can I download ebooks by Cartarescu?

I've been wanting to read him for some time, but I find not ebooks, nor books available in my country.

>>15736571
My nigga Tom Stoppard

>>15737470
FUCKING lmao

>>15737478
lingen. start with nostalgia, is astonishingly good.

>>15737538
libgen*

>>15736571
100% gonna be a black person.

>>15737538
It's not there.

Interesting year, I honestly have no clue.

>>15737639
Look at the bright side, it won't be American. Maybe an African, who knows.

>>15736682
No shit, faggot:

Bitch, be humble (Hol' up, bitch)
Sit down (Hol’ up, lil’, hol' up, lil’ bitch)
Be humble (Hol' up, bitch)
Sit down (Hol' up, sit down, lil', sit down, lil’ bitch)
Be humble (Hol' up, hol' up)
Bitch, sit down (Hol' up, hol' up, lil' bitch)
Be humble (Lil' bitch, hol' up, bitch)

Truly, a serious competitor to Can Xue and Ngugi

>>15737748
>it won't be American
And let's hope Nobel continuous with their trend of not giving non-humans the prize.

>>15737748
it'll probably be that overrated nog Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o

>>15737775
Is it overrated when there is literally no competition within your race?

>>15736632
>Thiongo
I don't think he's ever going to get it. It's sad, as his name is brought up every year, but if he was going to win, it would have happened by now.

>>15737788
Competition is worldwide, not "within your race."

>>15737818
Let's be real it was never "worldwide" the disproportionate European winners show that. However if they were to go for someone more exotic to be PC then Thiong'o does not have any competition.

After the ordeal of Bob Dylan's win they will never give it to another American

>>15736571
Ishiguro should win again, in my opinion.

>>15737844
Only tards would argue against his win.

>>15737843
Lots of Latin American and Asian writers equally if not better than him. And yes, Europeans are the best at literature, that's no secret.

It's coming. Don't say I didn't warn you.

>>15737859
Yes I agree, I never said he was better, simply it would not be uprising if they awarded it to him based on this years current events.

>>15737866
>literally called a cunt

>>15737872
I mean, last year they gave it to a woman because of their internal sex scandal. Not sure if they will be influenced by tragedies that happened in the US but we'll see.

>>15737072
How can anyone read a heart so white and not realise that it is one of the best books published in the last 30 years?

>>15737895
>Gave it to a woman because of their internal sex scandal.
>Gave the other to Handke who denies a genocide
Kek who the hell knows what goes on in there, it's very unpredictable.

>>15736571
Hopefully Marias or Cartarescu, but if I had to bet I would go for Ngugi.

>>15737858
Please give a compelling argument for his win.

>>15737988
Not him but Dylan took lyrics to another level. We now take it for granted but it didn't use to be that way. Dylan won for "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition." No more, no less.

>>15737866
Is it bad that at first sight I thought that that was Houellebecq put through the FaceApp filter?

>>15738011
Michelle is hotter. Atwood looks like a witch

>>15736635
kek
>>15737187
somebody nominate Londonfrog
>>15737470
Murakami will win within the next 20 years
>>15737639
wouldn't be the first. Toni Morrison was the last, wasn't she?
>>15737866
don't think so. they had to come up with some reason based on her literary efforts.
>>15737922
2019 was the weirdest year in Nobel history
>>15738029
correct.
>>15736571
Houellbecq deserves the Nobel Prize for his outstanding capability of analysing, envisioning, and portraying the fabric of society as well as the shortcomings of modern individuals struggling to keep up with cultural shifts.

>>15738266
ya'll better check and screencap this for the future

>>15738009
It's still a bit sketchy, there are many underecognized writers who would deserve just as much praise in terms of literary achievements, and who would benefit more from the exposure given by the prize. Dylan really gets nothing by being awarded the Nobel, since people are always going to look awkwardly at the choice.

>>15738589
not him, but I fully agree. The prize should honour the tradition of literature, the spirit of the winners, and the original idea. Of all singers, songwriters, bards, and story-tellers of all sorts, Dylan deserves the prize the most, but the Nobel Prize for Literature should be reserved for literary achievements of oeuvres that consist of at the very least one major novel, several books, and acclaimed new concepts or ideas.

>>15736571
Pynchon deserves it the most. Plus it'd be hilarious to have no-show laureates two years in a row. He probably wouldn't even publicly acknowledge it.

>>15736571
António Lobo Antunes is my pick
Pinecone and Corncob won't get it because their work is too American and unfiltered, the committee wouldn't like to be associated with something as ""crass"" as two. Delilo might win who knows

>>15738693
DeLillo is even more American than Pynch and Cormac. Literally all his shit is about the US. While at least Pynch has some novels set elsewhere like in Europe and Cormac has many links to Mexico.

>>15738693
>their work is too American and unfiltered
It's kind of funny how stodgy the Nobel Committee still is. Gravity's Rainbow was published almost fifty fucking years ago, and while it's really fucking transgressive, it's also such a landmark in literature that the only way you could pass over Pynchon is if you're attempting to use the award to direct the development of literature. If Joyce was snubbed, Pynchon has no chance. The committee generally approaches prospective laureates though to see if they'd accept to avoid being embarrassed. It's plausible that either Pynchon, Joyce, or both, have already been approached quietly by the committee and declined. That's if they can even fucking find Pynchon.

Jon Fosse

I doubt any of the authors still alive that lit really likes will get it unfortunately
Pynchon might have a chance at some point if he pushes out another good work before he kicks the bucket

>>15738751
>It's plausible that either Pynchon, Joyce, or both, have already been approached quietly by the committee and declined.
They don't do this. At least they didn't prior Bob Dylan's win. I don't think they started doing so.
Traditionally, experimental writers do not win. Pynchon is ultra experimental, has little influence (yeah sure some), has (almost) no political or philosophical stance, and is basically about weird humour and confusing stories. No fucking way. Corncob will win before they even consider Pinecone.

>>15736592
>William T. Vollmann
As much as I would love to see Swedish newspapers scramble for culturewriters that have actually read him, the only person that thinks this is a real possibility is Vollman himself.

>>15738751
>>15738862
It's important to remember the wording in Alfred Nobel's will: "one part to the person who shall have produced in the field of literature the most outstanding work in an ideal direction”. You could probably justify giving the prize to all sorts of strange writers, but the demands for some sort humanitarian point remains.

Its unclear to me why anyone pays attention to the nobel prize in literature
Self-appointed arbiters of "quality writing"; their selections are inevitably influenced by politics and arbitrary agendas.
No real reason to rate their choices above your local reading club, or even /lit/

The "peace prize" is even more of a joke

>>15736571
Protip: He is on this list.

I hope McCarthy wins soon, he's getting pretty old and you can't get a posthumous prize

>>15737866
would be pissed but not surprised. How anyone takes her seriously is beyond me.

>>15736632
>Thiongo
*Ngugi
>>15737808
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to pronounce "Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o". The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of Kenyan history most of the jokes will go over a typical reader's head. There's also the author's fanonistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the narration—his cadence draws heavily from Gicaandi singing, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these satires, to realize that they're not just politically poignant—they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Ngũgĩ truly ARE idiots—of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the sad humour in Matigari's existential catchphrase "where can one find truth and justice in this country?" which itself is a cryptic reference to Gakaara's Gikuyu epic Wa-Nduuta: Hingo ya Paawa. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o's genius unfolds itself on the page in front of them. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have an Expert in Modern Theft and Robbery tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only—and even then they have to demonstrate that they're at least 5 degrees of class oppression below myself (preferably even lower) beforehand.

>>15737937
>>15737775
The guy who apparently makes the longlist by himself compares him disfavourably to Achebe in his foreword to Thing Fall Apart.
>>15737843
*Ngugi
>>15738874
The speculation is a good way to find out about authors + it's something to be angry about.

>>15738751
>it's also such a landmark in literature
American literature*
Which no one cares about

Itt: retards who never read the criterias for winning a Nobel and think it's an award for pure literary merit

>>15738919
>would be pissed but not surprised.
She is never getting the Nobel Prize.

>>15736571
>Also general Nobel discussion thread
The Nobel Prize in Literature is the least respected literary award ever.

>>15739228
what is this, a qt for ants?
and at least they haven't given it to murakami like the kafka prize

>>15739228
name one I can respect, please, I beg of you. all one can value is prize money nowadays as it seems. these commitees are confederacies of dunces.

btw, the headquarters for nobel autism is https://www.worldliteratureforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/nobel-prize-in-literature-2020-speculation.66249/

>>15739246
Fuck you for giving /lit/ a link to this, the retards here are gonna ruin it. MUH PYNCHON MUH VOLMANN MUH DELLILLO

>>15739259
lol did you delete your first post because you misread "least" as "most"?

>>15739241

>>15739246
it's like a rare glimpse into another asylum for the mentally unstable

>>15737372
t. hasn’t read the book. Satantango is easily the best European book of the 80s.

Dalton Trevisan should win

>>15737775
>overrated
His early works are better than the supposed big three living chodes: Coatzee, Rushdie, and Pahmuk.

>>15739296
You got me, anon. My mind refused to accept that someone would imply that Pulitzshit is more respected than the Nobel.

>>15739342
I don't understand why /lit/ hates Coetzee. He reaches a little too hard with the social commentary sometimes, but that doesn't mean he isn't an amazing writer.

>>15739228
this imagine taking an award on matters of art given by swedes seriously

Borges, like every year

>>15739354
/lit/ hates everything which isn't obscurantist burgershit or a 500+ pages classic focusing on the psychological aspects of literature.

Bump

>>15738864
What? Vollmann is pretty well known (among people that actually read at least).

>>15740331
https://www.google.com/search?q=william+vollmann&lr=lang_sv&hl=sv&tbs=lr:lang_1sv
https://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_sv&hl=sv&tbs=lr%3Alang_1svE&q=+vollmann

>>15740331
In Europe at least he is thankfully a literal who. Believe me, I work in the publishing business and I interact with various literary circles more than I would like to. Only people specifically interested in American lit or post-modernism have even heard of him, and there are few such people here.
Anyway, he is not a real contender, and you only say such nonsense as:
>pretty well known (among people that actually read at least)
because you have been brainwashed by /lit/ or reddit or some other internet community instead of reading actual Nobel contenders like Can Xue, Jon Fosse and Annie Ernaux

>>15740377
?
>>15740486
no one talks about vollmann here
>name drops actual literal whos
yeah ok lmao

>>15740538
>?
?

This years winner should by kafka or Dostoevsky. I'm reallt shocked they haven't won yet because they're so good!!!

>>15740563
Idk what I am looking at anon

>>15740538
Everyone I mentioned is objectively a top contender for the Nobel and other similar prizes. Each one of them are absolutely huge in literary high circles. Jon Fosse is literally the most performed living playwright. As I said, you are brainwashed and ignorant. Educate yourself.

>no one talks about vollmann here
Lurk more.

>>15740577
swedish search results
he's close to a non-entity

>>15740582
Fosse wouldn’t surprise me, though he was a fairly vocal supporter of Handke, so it’ll be interesting to see if the committee is really ready to back a particular strain of European writers to the core.

>>15740486
Do you think this is the result of translatability, lack of global application, or some other such bias? It’s odd because usually the committee goes for academically lionized writers, and a lot of pomo comes out of that. Is pomo in the American vein viewed as niche?

>>15740852
There is no connection between Fosse and Handke besides him supporting his Nobel win, I think the academy has shown that they are beyond such trivialities

>>15740874
In all honesty, the general consensus in European academia is that American literature is just in a really bad place. Lydia Davis and Marillyne Robinson have their fans but that is about it. You will occasionally find people who believe Pynchon to be a genius but the majority is against him.
And yes, american "pomo" is very localized, very focused on burger issues, not very relatable for most people here. Personally, I think early Le Clezio (The Giant obviously) did that kind of fiction just outright better imo. Contemporary Americans have a tendency to confuse complexity with depth; it is very regrettable coming from Hemingway's country. Overall, I don't think there is anyone from America who would actually deserve it, except for the aforementioned Lydia David and John Crowley.

>>15741090
I'd love it if Crowley won. An underrated novelist.

>>15736571
maybe they'll give it to Robert Hunter this year. why not?

>>15739341
Baseado.

>>15741090
What do they think of Pynchon and McCarthy?

>>15736863
no idea why anglos fell for such midbrow mediocrity. he's barely above ruiz safon or perez reverte's level.

>>15741744
he's far above both of them.

>>15741090
>lydia davis
Wanna know how I know you’re larping?

>>15741926
>live action roleplay
>online text

>>15740486
why don't you like vollmann?

>>15737775
there's literally no way a black person won't win this year so he's probably the only good choice left

>>15742036
>there's literally no way a black person won't win this year
what do you mean? some jogger died in a shit US city. who cares.

>>15741987
>literal nigger
>imageboard
lurk more

>>15741756
Yeah but he's still shit

>>15738266
if murakami wins the fucking nobel prize that will be the final straw and i will kill myself.

havent read anything by him but kafka on the shore, but damn, that book was garbage.

>>15736863
Based, Bartleby&company best company

>>15736571
Kendrick Lamar

>>15742092
That's a bit too harsh a judment. He's a good writer.

>>15739342
>Coatzee
Okay. Picture this.
A coat, any coat. It can be brown with patches over the elbows, why not. And who's wearing that coat? Because a lonely coat would be absurd, a lonely coat would be pointless. But it someone's wearing the coat... Who, you may ask? Oh, no-one, just a little brown girl called... Zee, from The Matrix. Get it? Coatzee. And that's your pic related.

>>15742036
I strongly doubt the Academy will pick a black person "just because". You've no idea what some of them are like.

It feels like Europe remains the most worthy of the prize, so I'd be surprised if they gave it to anyone from here. Cartarescu the Romanian may be the strongest candidate among European white males, although I'm not sure his works fit the criteria. I'd be rather surprised and impressed if he or some other Krasznahorkai, Nadas, Marias or Fosse would get it (the Russian Sergei Lebedev is my dark horse bet for the future). Of course, most likely none of them will because the committee is under external and internal pressure, which at best will result in someone from a new country, Middle East or Africa being picked, and at worse will end up in a full intersectional award.

>>15744028
>the committee is under external and internal pressure, which at best will result in someone from a new country, Middle East or Africa being picked
this is what people say every year and then they give it to a european
it's starting to amuse me that people think that the way to guess who they will pick is to look at what kind of author they normally DON'T pick instead of looking at what ones they do

>>15740486
>Annie Ernaux
she is fucking shit

Should be Salman Rushdie but he will never get it, sadly

>>15736571
that guy that wrote nigger a lot

>>15745594
midwit-core

>>15738862
>almost no political or philosophical stance
Dude how the fuck did you get this out of his books.

>>15738699
Anons point is that you cant have it both ways. Its either American and filtered (Delilo) or universal and unfiltered. The psychology and philosophy Pynchon espouses is distinctly American, its very much influenced by the Beats and the transgressive culture of the 60s and 70s and the fallback it generated. Delillo might get it first because even though his novels are centred around America, their key philosophy can be applied to universal notions without any historical conditioning. You cant do this with Pynchon without having some knowledge of the time he's talking about. Delillos work can be enjoyed and interpreted without all this historical baggage. Hence the "American and filtered" part

Same as almost every year: some Euro writer nobody outside Europe has heard of. No way in hell will it be an American, unless they decide to give it to a hippie musician again.

>>15746678
>nobody outside Europe has heard of
Nobody outside of Europe matters

Pynchon is unironically too hard to read to win the Nobel.

>>15739016
Americans have out out the best literature and they are the ones that are carrying it now. Keep coping.

>>15748254
put*

>>15748254
>t, triggered redneck tranny

>>15748275
Jon Fosse is like the 20th Beckett and Bernhard copycat. You get your taste straight off whatever is shilled on twitter. You aren't even one of the good snobs. Pynchon is better than all of your favorite writers.

>>15748375
Why would you talk about a writer you haven't read?
Quite honestly, my cat is a better writer than Pynchon.

>>15742003
Because he's trash and a tryhard

>>15748254
That's quite the stretch. They're the best ones at selling it, that's all.

>>15748442
Not true: the anglocentric internet just skews your perception. In Europe, for example, Knausgaard and Houellebecq, even Tokarczuk are many times more popular than any American (not counting Stephen King and other lowbrow shit).

>>15737920
It's good but it's not that good anon desu. It really does have a great prose but it is not totally unique in any way. Kind of reminded me of Saramago and Proust but in a much less complex manner. It has been some years since I've last read him so maybe I would have to read him again, but I don't think A heart so white is even one of the best works in spanish in the last 30 years.
>>15737937
>Cartarescu
Cartarescu would be great, could see it hapenning. I kind of hope an African author wins, the only use I see the Nobel having nowadays is making authors being sold more and becoming more accesible, maybe Thiong'o will finally win.

>>15749108
Can you explain me the fuss about Thiongo? A while ago I tried reading Wizard of the Crow but was immensely disappointed and dropped it in 100 pages or so; literally every word feelt politically charged, every action of the characters feelt like it was meant to strengthen the archetype, the trope.

>>15749108
>>15749247
*ngugi

>>15737859
scandinavian literature is seriously overrated. any other serious writers just get snubbed to make way for some norgay. see proust, borges, nabokov, joyce, etc.

Double digits confirm Araki. I think a graphic novel or manga is going to win it this year

>>15749247
I have not personally read his fiction work, I've had an eye out for him for some years but he does not seem to be sold much here in my country/city. I've been getting interested in some african country's literature (New Guinea's for example) and there are some authors who have interested but are almost impossible to find. If he were to get the Nobel I would hope he would become more accesible and some other african writers too. I imagine most of Ngugi's works would be politically charged in some way though, when trying to write from somewhere like Africa or the Caribbean and the writings taking place there I feel it's almost inevitable.
>>15749307
You're right, is that the name that passes down from their father or mother?

>>15749349
ngugi is his first name, thiong'o is his fathers name
i saw/read some interview with him where he said gikyuyus only use the "wa X" when they need to differentiate between people with the same name

>>15749309
>see proust
Proust died before half of his work had been published. Nabokov probably never qualified; the chief requirement, as declared by Alfred Nobel, isn't "beautiful prose".

>>15738266
checked and keked

>>15749394
tolstoy got dq'ed because alfred nobel hated him. you also cant deny nabokov's level. what about borges, joyce, kazantzakis, rilke, chekhov, conrad, gorky? at least half the swedish winners dont deserve it. besides, while porkbaralleling swedish "literature", they didnt even give it to strindberg kek. admit it, nobel literature prize is shit, and scandinavian literature is irrelevant. stop coping

>>15749349
Why don't you just buy am e-reader?
For African lit I only like Mia Couto, I haven't read much, admittedly, but most everything looks crap.

>>15749444
>gorky
Kek, can you seriously imagine SWEDISH academy giving an award to Soviet propoganda writer?

>scandinavian literature is irrelevant
The dumbest opinion I have read in weeks, you probably haven't even read anyone outside of Ibsen, Strindberg, Knausgaard, and Hamsun, have you?

>>15749108
If the nobel wants focus on bringing authors to the mainstream literary circles then they need to start focusing on east asian authors.
Let's face it Ngugi is well known in the west, but most of the great chinese literature is still untranslated, with very few people interested and mandarin not being exactly an accesible language to foreigners their contemporary literary works remain isolated.
Japan seems to get all the attention from the west with even minor authors translated because of the anime boom, but chinese, indian and other asian nation's lit is completely unkown here.
But anyway, Ngugi will get it because of the racial tensions for sure.

>>15749565
they gave it sholokhov who was party approved

>>15749565
>The dumbest opinion I have read in weeks, you probably haven't even read anyone outside of Ibsen, Strindberg, Knausgaard, and Hamsun, have you?
I doubt he's read any of them, even.

>>15749663
Those east asian writers would have to exist in translation for the academy to notice them in the first place. Some things are just out of their reach.

Oh boy which flavorful ethnic will the Nobel committee select for the reading pleasure of New Yorker-reading Outer Party members whose "nonbinary" kids went to Duke on money stolen from middle class taxpayers this year??? I can't wait to see if it's Mgogog Mbnubsunrnert

>>15749848
Do you sincerely believe an institution as stodgy as the swedish academy gives a flying fuck what new york thinks?

>>15749838
until last year they had a sinologist among them
and sometimes order translations of candidates
>>15749848
this yearly joke would work better if the only africans that have received it in this century weren't white

>>15749848
>Oh boy which flavorful ethnic will the Nobel committee select
A 77 year old white male based genocide denier probably

>>15749866
I hope they give it to Yu Hua. You know, in honor of their sinologist dying. One of the most based and redpilled living writers desu.

>>15749864
>stodgy

Remember to always calibrate your political compass absolutely, not relatively. Otherwise you end up like the post below yours, thinking in the categories of the thing you're trying to criticize and not realizing you've already conceded the validity of their position a priori.

I need a based european to drop some reading lists now. Please help me wake up from the nightmare of anglophone literature.

>>15748391
I know for a fact that cats can't write.

>>15750186
Have these virtually unknown contemporary Eastern European titles you could check out:
>The Physics of Sorrow - Georgi Gospodinov
>Oblivion - Sergei Lebedev
>The Book of Whispers - Varujan Vosganian

Afaik, they were all translated into major languages. The first two are available on libgen in English, the third only in German. Or perhaps look around from something from Cartarescu.

>>15752285
I forgot about the Argentinian Cesar Aira who's been steadily for years churning out novellas. He features on the Nobel betting lists and is available on libgen. His works are pure fun and smoother reads than the Euros mentioned above. Hope you can find something of interest.