/lit/ - Literature

>>15734483
Which writer is better: Seneca or Epictetus? I've heard good things about both and I have Seneca's Letters from a Stoic and Epicetus' Handbook/Discourses, but I only have space for one more book to read since I'm also reading another 2 atm. Also, which one influenced the Church Fathers more as well since I want to jump to St/. Augustine's Confessions and The City of God right after that.

Seneca is pretty based but leisure and relaxtion is needed

Seneca was a hypocrite. Read Epictetus.

>>15734513
i love these regal, romanticised paintings if medievalism.

also, i thoroughly enjoyed confessions.

>>15734483
There's nothing wrong with both of these things because everyone is coping with their anxiety one way or another. Yes there're quality copes and rotten ones, but I guess it depends on the individual.
Wanking on a mountain peaks and thinking about life for few hours after every two or three months helps me a little bit.

>>15734483
"Personal improvement" is a meme

I know this is bait but I'll bite. I stopped playing video games years ago but I think the problem with this kind of thinking is that it loses all kind of credibility when someone in the modern era searches for a similar kind of overarching meaning to the universe that Seneca and other stoicists most likely believed in. They themselves were convinced that there was a grand order in the universe from which they derived elaborate theories about the justification of horrendous things happening all over the world. I think that suffering from this exhausting kind of modern cynicism which erodes all purpose to a fulfilling life, and therefore a self-improving life, shouldn't be seen as a waste of time. Rather, I think it serves as a neutrality, which is far worse if you think about it, whilst inhibiting people from ever becoming genuine.

>>15734521
Why anon? Is it because he had prosperity and good buisness?

>>15734716
Seneca compromised his philosophical beliefs by working with Nero, and by retaining his status as a member of the senatorial elite.

>>15734760
He was quite literally prevented from retiring by Nero, considering that he quite possible would have been killed (and eventually was anyway) if he did not defy Nero's demands he in no way compromised his philosophical beliefs. Stoics don't particularly fear death but that doesn't mean they seek it, there's even one of his letters talking about the stupidity in seeking to end your life if it's not necessary and you aren't overwhelmed with physical pain. Or do you think he should have told Nero of all people to fuck off and then get killed for his impudence? Really don't understand your point here

>>15734760
He was quite literally prevented from retiring by Nero, considering that he quite possible would have been killed (and eventually was anyway) if he did not defy Nero's demands for continued service he in no way compromised his philosophical beliefs. Stoics don't particularly fear death but that doesn't mean they seek it, there's even one of his letters talking about the stupidity in seeking to end your life if it's not necessary and you aren't overwhelmed with physical pain. Or do you think he should have told Nero of all people to fuck off and then get killed for his impudence? Really don't understand your point here

>>15734513
im imPROOOOOOVINNNGGGG AHHHHGGGGHHGGGHHU

>>15734483
>Imagine being so deluded you think slavishly following x social norms is "bettering yourself"
>Imagine being so retarded you think a life that ends in death has any possibility of "personal improvement"
Stoicism is the cuckest of cuck fantasies

>>15735336
Case in point. Seneca didn't give a shit about his precious integrity when it came down to it, and he died like a dog for all his fancy words

>>15734483
>You aren't wasting time spending it on others for no personal improvement, right /lit/? You're seriously not slaving away in idle preoccupation playing video games, right?

if youre studying the philosophy honestly i think youll find both of those statements to be false. Stoics have historically gone out of their way to assist others to the point of physical harm and death and although video games obviously didnt exist i think they would agree that taking part in an activity that allows you to shed the stress of the day to ultimately be a better human to others and yourself would not be a waste. unless ive just misinterpreted how youve written this in which case disregard

>>15735372
What if you are wrong? What if Ewige Wiederkunft is real? What if the only way to break out of this cycle is to become better with each iteration, which will allow you to join the realm of Gods, as Plato said, and finally become free of this miserable madness?

>>15735397
Wanting easy stimulation makes you a child though anon, you're a man, everything has to be a challenge.

>>15735469
i wouldnt say easy stimulation. i think it would be fair to say that most people on this site has grown up playing games of some sort electronic, board, or even actual sports. having a familiar outlet that you engage with regularly can be a meditative process if you frame it properly. also seeking discomfort to ready yourself for when it will come is intelligent. living in misery is retarded

>>15735436
>miserable madness
Life is awesome in all it's ecstasy and misery
Quit being a whiny compensating loser

>>15735336
virtue over all. yes, he should have told Nero to get fucked. If you had bothered to read Epictetus you would know this.

>>15734513
Seneca is a better writer
Epictetus is a better thinker

>>15734483
No.

>>15734514
True.

>>15735469
How's that outlook working out for you?

>>15735531
That's because you and I were lucky enough to have relatively good life. Many others were not so happy.

>>15735436
What if it's not, and you lived a life of restraint and calculation which amounted to nothing? Only pleasure is real and if "bettering" yourself is what gives you pleasure, go for it. But doing for any other reason is idiotic.

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