/lit/ - Literature

which version should i read

No. It's nice but it still has a lot of nuances.

Na that would be Moby Dick.

>>15706611

Possibly. I really ought to read it, I suppose.

>>15706656
the one in the OP pic.

>>15706656
Bartlett is the only non-manlet

>>15706656
The Tolstoy-endorsed Maude translation (edited by Oxford) shown in the image.

>>15706714
Based

>>15706611
Nah, war and peace is much better

What is it with Anglos and their obsession for generic Russian literature and film? Tarkovsky is indistinguishable from shitty Yugoslavian family dramas

>>15706847
>Tolstoy
>generic

>>15706847
Here's your (You).

Is it better to read this before W&P?

>>15706871
>that meme aspect ratio
what was he thinking?

Was actually thinking of starting a thread asking about "better" novels than AK. Anyone got any thoughts on the matter?

>>15706903
The Stranger is the only one I've yet to find.

>>15706921
kek

>>15706903
Chevengur by Platonov and The Hero of Our Time by Lermontov

>>15706889
Probably that it would make a good shot composition, and he wasn't wrong. Although I don't get people's obsession with Stalker when Nostalgia had better visuals overall desu.

>>15706903
the brothers karamazov obviously

>>15706954
You misspelled Andrei Rublev.

>>15706998
Did I?

>>15706954
I have Stalker and Andrei Rublev on DVD. Should I give it a chance even though they're like 3 hours or so?

>>15706871
cringe
Watch more than the imdb top 250

>>15707202
is it still in the top 250? I thought the hundreds of superhero flicks would knock it out othe list.

>>15706611
That would be Red Chambers

>>15707123
Absolutely. They're great, especially from visual standpoint. And these two aren't really pretentious either by arthouse standards, so you'll probably get the premise if you think it over for a bit.

>>15707202
Cope.

>>15707202
You can't name a single movie better than Andrei Rublev and I know you can't because I've seen more movies than you.

>>15707272
transformers 2

>>15707272
I love Tarkovsky; there are a few movies that are better anyway:
>The Turin Horse
>Persona
>A Pigeon Sat on a Branch Reflecting on Existence
>Au Hasard Balthazar

>>15707399
>Persona
That's not The Seventh Seal.

>>15707428
Yeah, I am kinda suffering from recency bias with Persona, I watched it a few weeks ago. The Seventh Seal is probably better desu.

>>15706611
No. Go back to plebbit.

>>15707272
The Mirror

>>15707240
You have no eye for composition and you have the taste of a 13 year old movie buff.

>>15707448
Tolstoy is r*ddit repellent.

>>15707272
Why should we give underage people recommendations? Go play your Xbox

>>15707399
>Watch more than imdb Top 250
>Posts Bresson and Bergman
Like I said you can't name a better movie. Those movies are ass

>>15707454
The Mirror is only good to avant teens

>>15707483
We can it's just that your IQ is too low to learn from your betters.

>>15707504
cope

>>15707504
This.

>>15706903
my diary desu

>>15707483
Au Hasard Balthzar is his most popular and only has 17k ratings, surely that can't be even in the top 2500.
Anyway, you are a pretentious fuck, and I am probably wasting my time interacting with you, as you have failed to actually mention any movies. What is next? Cervantes is a hack? Dante is a shit because he is too popular? Goethe is a midwit because everyone has to read him in school?

>>15707532
>you are a pretentious fuck

>>15706611
i like pronouncing her last name like carolina

>>15707532
You picked the Midwit babbys first directors movies. Bresson is a hack. Bergman is good but doesn't ever really reach the depth of Andrei Rublev although he gets close in Winter Light. I would rewatch Andrei Rublev and then reconsider your ranking of those movies.

>>15707561
I say it Cah-re-neena.
I don't think that's right, though.

>>15707565
>You picked the Midwit babbys first directors movies
Objectively wrong

>>15707483
>Those movies are ass
Quality film critic.

>>15707441
Seventh Seal was good, but not great.

>>15707565
Why is Bresson a hack? Who are your favorite filmmakers?

>>15706885
I would recommend reading it before War & Peace, yes.

>>15707617
That's true? Bergman and Bresson are the first directors anyone lists when they are trying to get past Tarantino.
>>15707654
People think the Minimalism is deep and woke but it's really just him finding a way to hide how inadequate he is at every aspect of filmmaking. If you just say it's bad because it's "Minimalism" than everyone will fall over for you.

>Who are your favorite filmmakers?
I can't give away my secrets but I'll throw you a bone and tell you to look into Kieslowski he is a babbys first director but he makes better movies than anyone you listed.

>>15707780
>the first directors anyone lists when they are trying to get past Tarantino
I think you mean Tarkovsky. I am not sure why you would ever imply Bresson fits that criteria better.

>>15707792
Go onto /r/criterion or look at the /tv/ entry level lists. Bresson is memed non stop in every thread along with Bergman and yes Tarkovsky too.

>>15707803
>/tv/ has shit tast-

>>15707834
Literally looks like the imdb top 250

>>15707843
It literally doesn't.

>>15707834
>2013
They never talk about these films these days. It all breaks down to capeshit. Nice try, though.

>>15707803
Reddit and 4chan is not representative of everyone who is trying to surpass mere consumerism. It's like saying Gene Wolfe is the biggest serious scifi writer, or that DFW is popular in literary circles.
In my country, Tarkovsky is by far the most memed serious director in existence for example. I know this because I go to pretty much every film festival here. Few people even know of Bresson here, unfortunately.

>>15707834
I really hope you are being facetious. People who made this aren't actually people. Having a few good one high up doesn't redeem it at all. It's like the /r/books people who mostly read King and Sanderson, but occasionally will read Dumas or Orwell as well, and believe that they are very intelligent and deep.

>>15707834
>bane not N1
shit list

>>15707862
>Star Wars
>The Empire Strikes Back
>The Truman Show
>American Beauty
>Raiders of the Lost Ark
>The Matrix
>LOTR
>Terminator
>Blues Brothers
>Alien
>The Last of Mohicans
>Heat
>The Dark Knight
>Halloween
Why do plebs act so confident

>>15707862
>Pulp Fiction
>Shawshank Redemption
>The Dark Knight
>Drive
>American Beauty
>Goodfellas
>Star Wars
>The Matrix
>The Godfather
>Fight Club
>etc
It's literally the IMDb Top 250.

>>15707874
This.

>>15707879
Thanks fellow patrician great minds think alike

>>15707879
It literally isn't.

>>15707891
Denial.

>>15707780
I'm not the original poster and Kieslowski isn't one of my favorites. Thinking Bresson is just about Minimalism is stupid. His ability to capture the essential is indeed great, but there are also his use of sound to the point of it being a second narrative line, his evocation of emotion through expressionless actors, his use of camera to emphasize actions, and his capacity to conjure the sublime and make God a constant character through his films. His themes are almost always great, too.

>>15707888
checked and based

it's actually hilarious how easily this thread got derailed and got people to engage in generic phallometry even with a classic power-level reveal scenario lole
literally /mu/-tier

>>15706903
Depends what you like to find in a novel, Anna Karenina is pretty much the peak of its particular kind of novels, but novels come in many kinds.

Can't go wrong with some Flaubert, so try Sentimental Education and Madame Bovary.

>>15707902
Why is expressionless actors a good thing? I never understood why people love the mindless robot it never made any sense to me. His use of camera to emphasize actions isn't unique they were doing to the same thing in the 1910s and making a God a constant character is done a thousand times better by Kieslowski

>>15707904
/mu/ is arguably the best board on this site.

>>15707483
>>15707202
>people itt shitting on Bergman and Tarkovsky because they're supposedly in the top 250 of some meme site
The levels of daily pseudery on /lit/ never cease to amaze me.

>>15707938
It's literally just 17 year olds from Instagram who don't go on any other boards.

>>15707907
What are some novels similar to AK?

>>15707939
I think you got the thread wrong. I'm shitting on Bresson for being bad. Bergman for being entry level and shitting on Tarkovsky except for Andrei Rublev which is the objectively the best movie of all time. You understand?

>>15707938
double lole
not like /lit/ is much better at this point but that's still a ridiculous statement

>>15707780
>I can't give away my secrets but I'll throw you a bone
>makes dismissive comments about famous director being entry-level
>can't recommend anyone else without also calling him entry-level
This is textbook /lit/ pseud behavior in crystal clear form, this should really be put in the sticky somewhere.

>>15707957
I'm not going to give a pleb the non entry level directors because then they are gonna become entry level. I can't get pussy with entry level directors.

>>15707921
Expressionless actors are due to his autism for trying to make cinema different from theater, but it serves its purpose by channeling the emotion to the spectator.
I didn't say he was original on the capture of action as narrative device, but he is a master of it.
Kieslowski's God representation, imo, is too forced and tries too much to be transgressive. Bresson's take is much subtler and grasps his true beauty.

>>15707780
Based and patricianpilled.

>>15707989
>but it serves its purpose by channeling the emotion to the spectator.
How?
>I didn't say he was original on the capture of action as narrative device, but he is a master of it.
eh
>Kieslowski's God representation, imo, is too forced and tries too much to be transgressive. Bresson's take is much subtler and grasps his true beauty.
eh

Is it peak Kieslowski?

>>15707945
Depends in what respect

>Novel about adultery and its consequences
Madame Bovary
>Novel about the life of the high classes
Vienna at dusk by Schnitzler
>Very detailed novel that go into the mindset and circumstances of an entire social milieu
Balzad and Zola wrote dozen of those but I feel Zola rings closer to Tolstoy for whatever reason. Try La Curée (don't know the English title).

I started writing this post thinking I would find plenty of examples but I'm ashamed to say not that many come to mind. Guess Anna Karenina really is a pretty unique novel, and I probably haven't read as much as I imagine I have.

>>15707949
So pretty much the post you're quoting, but slightly reworded. I don't think I got much wrong, it's just a change of emphasis. Still an argument-deprived pseudfest.

>>15708006
Through every other aspect of the film: narrative, sound, action, camera, dialogue. Watch Mouchette and tell me it isn't an emotionally heavy film.

>>15707949
Also I forgot: no name of a better director provided except for Kieslowski that you didn't even have the balls to call good.

>>15708044
No he literally said that the thread was only people shitting on him. Never said anything about me saying he made the best film.

>>15708030
Thanks.
I've always heard a lot of good things about Madame Bovary, but never got around to reading it. Is that an ok entry point for Flaubert?

>>15707968
You're not going to get any pussy on this site anon, the most feminine entity here is Butterfly and she's half-trans half-lesbian wine mom.

>>15708045
Mouchette looks and is filmed like a high school play. I'll never understand how people fall for his trap. The "minimalism" shtick was the best thing he ever did. I should start making movies and do the same thing.

>>15708081
There's nothing wrong with minimalism.

>>15708051
I already told you why I wouldn't post anyone I liked and I did say he was good and I think he is great I just made sure to let him know it was entry level.

I would be delighted to inseminate her vaginal orifice.

>>15708065
Is she half lesbian? I've been asking for her to be my gf and she always say she doesnt like men at all.

>>15708096
This.

>>15708081
It's not one of my favorites, but it's certainly not like a high school play.

When did you grow out of your 'popular bad' phase, /lit/?

>>15708085
It is when you use it mask your inadequacy. It's like if I never learned any techniques to painting and just went straight to abstract expressionism and acted like I was a master. He could only do minimalism for a reason lol

>>15708108
Right now when I saw you post that implied that it was something immature.

>>15708063
Yes, you can start almost anywhere with Flaubert. Like Joyce he didn't write that many books but almost every one of them is a masterpiece. And unlike Joyce they're all pretty accessible. I'd recommend either one of his two realist masterpieces (Madame Bovary, Sentimental Education), or one of his "oriental" works (Salambö, Tentation of Saint Anthony).

Flaubert's entire work is basically :
>realist novels
Madame Bovary, Sentimental Education
Two of the best realists novels ever written imo, if not the best. Great richness of details and characters, absolutely unflinching portrayal of surroundings and motives with almost no sentimentality (at times Madame Bovary seems almost like well-written anthropology, especially when the titular character visits her poor neighbor), a simple and understated but very-well mastered writing, except when the author wants to hit you in the feels, and then boy, does he hit you (the death of Madame Bovary is the most famous example, but there are more than a few scenes at the end of Sentimental Education that can compare).
I think Sentimental Education is the better of the two. I think it impossible for a male in his twenties or thirties to read it and not feel touched and understood. Frédéric Moreau is literally us, and that apply to anywhere in the West at least.

>ancient "historical" fiction
Salambô, Tentation of Saint Anthony
Two novels about the ancient Near East, they are much more lyrical and fantastical than the above. I've only read Tentation of Saint Anthony, it's like a succession of prose poems and funny scenes tied together by a framing device (Anthony being tempted by the devil, every scene is a different temptation). The end in particular has some dizzying scenes about atheists, art and the hideous nature of reality, but it's more narrative than metaphysical (so more description than redpills and whatnot).

>satiric or ironic work
Dictionary of Received Ideas, Bouvard et Pecuchet
Work that pan the stupidity of common discourse and bourgeois life, the first is a posthumously published collection of clichés of his time, the second is an almost modernist work which is part satire-part realist novel

>memoirs and various pieces
Don't know much about them, but there are I think travel diaries in it, and Flaubert is great at scenery, so they're worth checking out.

>>15707202
Why the hell would I waste so much time consooming films?

>>15708089
You're making way too much of a big deal of that entry-level idea, but whatever floats your boat, enjoy your Deren and your Brakhage I guess.

>>15708224
Why would you think I like avant garde? Avant garde is worse than entry level.

>>15707483
Bresson is peak cinema still

>>15708100
She's a lesbian but also spiritually trans.

>>15708203
>spoils the book
thanks a lot retard.

>>15708236
Not even in the top 200 directors

>>15708248
Name 200 directors better than him.

>>15708228
There's no reason I should think anything about what you like since you're being such a privy faggot about it. Be logical. I could also say enjoy your Lelouch, your Pialat or your Wiene but you'd ask me why I think you like bourgeois drama, how I don't realize that French cinema is overrated, and what people find so interesting about expresionism.

>>15708257
Here are the french directors better than him

Jacques Becker / / Leos Carax / Marcel Carné / Claude Chabrol / René Clair / Henri-Georges Clouzot / Jean Cocteau / Jacques Demy / Claire Denis / Julien Duvivier / Abel Gance / Philippe Garrel / Jean-Luc Godard / Sacha Guitry (Russia) / Patricio Guzmán (Chile) / Claude Lanzmann / Louis Malle / Chris Marker / Georges Méliès / Jean-Pierre Melville / Max Ophüls (Germany) / Maurice Pialat / Roman Polanski / Jean Renoir / Alain Resnais / Jacques Rivette / Eric Rohmer / Raúl Ruiz ( / Jean-Marie Straub & Danièle Huillet / Jacques Tati / Bertrand Tavernier / François Truffaut / A / Jean Vigo

>>15708244
It's one of the top ten most famous deaths in literature, and it's so well-written it's impossible to truly spoil without copypasting it entirely.

>>15708272
Keep guessing and see if you can nail me

>>15708279
>Polanski
>French

>>15707938
mu is objectively the worst board

>>15708279
>FNW's degenerate bourgeoise romantic hijinks better than Bresson
lmao

>>15708279
>Patricio Guzmán
>Raúl Ruiz
>better than Bresson

peak pseud

>>15707834
e.

>>15706903
I never thought any writer compared to Tolstoy, until I found Pynchon; what he accomplished in V and GR compliment and surpass all of ol’ Lev’s nadirs and revelations. Both are vast artists, and they both, later in life, rejected their previous aesthetic and philosophical values. Plus Tom’s less preachy.

>>15706611
I love my boy Levin so very much, but, War and Peace is even better I think.

I'd be sad if this IS the greatest work of lit though, because then I have nothing ground breaking to look forward to.

>>15708287
I'd keep going but I have to go shortly. If the thread is still up tomorrow I'll try again.

>>15706931
>The Hero of Our Time by Lermontov
based selection
what a great book

Jesus Christ, this thread has like 2 posts about Anna Karenina and the rest are talking about literally anything else.

Also, Vronsky and Oblonsky did nothing wrong.

>>15706611
>buy book, shelve it
>3 years later decide to read it
>i bought the wrong translation again

fuck it buying bartlett after reading the first chapter for 5 translations

>>15708551
>this thread has like 2 posts about Anna Karenina and the rest are talking about literally anything else.
Welcome to /lit/.

>>15708521
peak Romanticism honestly
I don't think prose can get any more poetic than Taman

>>15706847
I don't get why foreigners love Tolstoyevsky so much.

>>15708551
agreed
loved Vronsky and Oblonsky. really, Oblonsky was my favorite character

>>15708633
might be because they're sublime authors, just guessing tho lol

>>15708633
>Why do people like the greatest authors of the 19th century so much

>>15708633
Because both were ones of the most influential authors to come from Russia. That doesn't mean that they are necessarily the pinnacle of Russian literature, but it's expected that foreigners would know about them rather than any other writers. For instance, I could give 9000 arguments why Mayakovsky or Khlebnikov were better poets than Marinetti, but since the latter was more influential, he's acknowledged worldwide, while the other two aren't.

>>15708675
is it bad that i don't know any of those three poets? :(

>>15708675
I'm familiar with those two and Gogol. Who else should I check out?

>>15708682
If you are neither Russian nor Italian, not really. Poets occasionally influence poets from other countries and sometimes they are just dope on their own, so knowing foreign authors might be a lot of good, but it's much more essential to know the ones from your own homeland first, because linguistic differences feel the strongest in poetry. Plus it's not too late for you to learn something, although I'd highly discourage anyone from getting into poetry by starting with Futurism.

>>15708521
Come on, it's just stereotypical byronic tragic hero fantasy for adolescents
>muh sesitivity
>muh weltzschmertz

>>15708748
I just remember after reading it, feeling astoundingly hollow. Something about Pechorin struck me as astoundingly pathetic. Its just a damn well written novella

>>15708205
>he can't analyze film, so he thinks it's only possible to consoom it
Based retard

>>15706611
Undoubtedly among the top 10 greatest novels. Most great "works of literature" are not novels, though.

>>15708795
I dunno, just read it yesterday, and it seemed like very stereotypical byronic story. I couldnt take it seriously even tho it had it's good parts. I really liked byron as a 16 year old, and adieu adieu still afects me greatly, but i couldn't see this book as something more than fashionable whining. I felt no depth in it, even tho i sympatise a bit with Pechorin. But all the book themes were very outdated i feel. Maybe it's something wrong with me, but i couldn't take it seriously. It's like every other romantic work, feel like maybe i just outgrew it.

>>15708863
>Most great "works of literature" are not novels
/lit/ begs to differ.

>>15708863
>Most great "works of literature" are not novels, though.
They're poems.

>>15708869
I read it a long time ago, so my memory might be skewed. But I remembered almost as an indictment of Pechorin and his way of thinking. He's as fraudulent and pretentious as Grushnitsky; he's just better at it. They're both pathetic men masquerading as tragic heroes.
What defines a tragic hero is that he fights fate. Pechorin is the opposite. He just lets fate - or what he believes is fate - push him along. He attributes his impulsive and arbitrary decisions to fate. He attributes the sadness in his life to fate. And of course, he's doing nothing to change things, and he's just sort of gliding along.
He'll die alone. Part of why A Hero of Our Time doesn't depict his death is because we don't need to see it; we know he dies pointlessly, with no one crying over him.
This is just my memory anyways. For all I'll know I've distorted it.

>>15708706
Kind of odd to bring up Gogol, especially along with Futurist poets, but okay. If you're looking for prose, then I'd advise reading some turn-of-the-century Symbolist authors, namely Sologub, Bely, and Andreev. As expected of this subreddit, they aren't really well-known on /lit/, but they still were quite influential in their time and generally are respected in Russia, although they are a bit too obscure for a casual reader there as well. Bely and Sologub also happened to write some neat poetry, Bely is even one of my personal favourites. Platonov is also an extremely interesting writer, pretty much the only big Russian post-revolution modernist who wrote in prose, try checking out his short stories. Some of them even remind me of Dubliners in a way desu. As for poetry, not sure why would you want to read translated stuff, but start with a Golden Age authors, i.e. Pushkin, Lermontov, Zhukosky (Svetlana is my favourite ballad of all times desu) Baratynsky and basically any poet from the first half of 19th century + Tutchev and Fet. There are tons of great poets in 20th century as well, even modern ones, and I also really like pre-Lomonosov Russian poetry, but that goes beyond the starting point.
>>15708748
The thing is that Pechorin isn't a basic Byronic hero, to make it more explicit Lermontov even introduces a figure of Grushnitsky, who is supposed to be a parody of one. Like >>15708795 said, there's no self-masturbatory in THOUT at all, which is untypical for a Byronic novel, and Pechorin is made to be pathetic, although still to a degree when it's possible to feel sorry for him. His sensitivity isn't just "herp derp I'm so misunderstood" but rather something he himself has cultivated and that now makes him a bad favour. And anyway, like I've already pointed out in my previous post, the novel itself is aesthetic to the highest degree imaginable and it's also unbelievable how organically and smoothly Lermontov managed to fuse so many literary genres, which makes the novel even richer. Honestly, if I were to pick a book to represent Russian literature, I'd go with The Hero of Our Time without a second thought.

>>15708919
Quality post.

>>15706656
P&V obviously

>>15708863
I never got the jerk over Homer, Ovid, Virgil, Dante, Petrarch, Shakespeare, Pushkin, Byron, etc, etc.
To me, Cervantes, Rabelais, Sterne, Fielding, Tolstoy, Melville, Kafka, Joyce, Proust, etc., etc. just seem so much pleasurable, so much more concerned with the human condition...

>>15706820
This
>>15708936
lol no

>>15709029
Shakespeare is both pleasureable and concerned with the human condition.

>>15708875
/lit/ barely reads anything other than prose narratives.

>>15709046
>Shakespeare is both pleasureable
Not for me. Call me filtered, I don't care. Reading him - I find torturous. I enjoyed a few local stagings of his plays (Winter's Tale and Othello) but his dialogues are so pompous, so puffed up... The plots, oh they are hysterical in the sense that extreme shit just has to happen, the characters have to be on edge all the time. I could never relate. And why that language? Do people like it? I always liked Joyce's late prose because even if it was weird and focused on linguistic beauty it also reflected the way I perceive the world; there's none of that Shakespeare. It is not only that I don't talk like his characters, that I don't live similar events, it is that I fundamentally don't think like them either.
You know, maybe I am just a brainlet, but an honest brainlet is better than a brainlet pretending to understand what he doesn't. So thank you but I will stick to Tolstoy and Hasek and Kundera and shit.

>>15709112
And that's extremely sad. Discarding poetry is a crime against literature.

>>15708919
A ты paзбиpaeшьcя в литepaтype

>>15709133
>t. hasn't read Much Ado About Nothing

>>15709167
Зaтo нe cмoгy нaйти paбoтy лoл

>>15709204
A, тaк ты диплoмиpoвaнный литepaтypoвeд! Hy, нe вoлнyйcя, пpeмьep миниcтp Aнглии изyчaл клaccичecкyю литepaтypy, мoжeт и y тeбя пoлyчитcя

>>15709167
>>15709204
>>15709253
Based Russian anons.

>>15709253
ᕦ(0ᴗ0)ᕤ

>>15709138
poetry almost universally sucks

>>15709554
Here's your (You).

>>15709554
there should be a /lit/ equivalent of pic related for such moments

>>15708936
I read this one. Good book

>>15706656
Non meme answer: the Miriam Schwartz translation. Yale uni press had it I think

>>15709596
This one?
https://www.amazon.com/Karenina-Margellos-World-Republic-Letters/dp/0300216823/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=marian+schwartz+anna+karenina&qid=1593207401&sr=8-1

>>15708022
i liked blue better

>>15709629
At least we can all agree that White was the worst.

>>15709641
I thought White was the best followed by Red. I thought blue was terrible. Am I retarded?

>>15708022
Red was the best. A masterpiece.

>>15710016
No, you just have a different opinion.

>>15710023
>>15710016
>>15709641
>>15709629

ranking things is truly advanced psuedointellectualism

>>15710092
Saying that ranking things is pseud is peak pseud.

>>15710092
Are you autistic?

>>15710137
>Are you autistic?

lol thread

>>15710708
Unironically better than 90% of the catalog.

>>15709623
Yes that is it. That's the one I have and it was my 3rd time reading ak (all different translations) and that is by far the best

>>15710737
how is it better than maude

>>15710737
Is it really better than the Oxford one? You're not the first one I've seen speak highly of it, so I'm definitely considering getting it.

>>15710808
>>15710860
It isn't.
>"Bce cчacтливыe ceмьи пoхoжи дpyг нa дpyгa, кaждaя нecчacтливaя ceмья нecчacтливa пo-cвoeмy."
>Shwartz: “All happy families resemble one another; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
>Maude: “All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

She literally fucks up the first line to 'unique' and make a statement.

>“Кaк быть винoвaтoю пpeд cyщecтвaми нe cyщecтвyющими?””
>Schwartz: “How can she be guilty before beings who don’t exist?” ("she" is incorrect)
>Maude: “How can one be guilty toward beings who don’t exist?”

Just a personal passage I enjoy.

>Schwartz: It's all right, sir; things will shapify” said Matvey.
>Maude: It's all right, sir; she will come round,” said Matvey.

Trying to make up her own words for 'oбpaзyeтcиa' instead of just saying "take shape" or "take form".

Read P&V or Maude.

>>15711038
Why the FUCK, then, do I keep seeing the Schwarz version shilled on /lit/?

>>15710737
what sort of paint are you huffing?

>>15711056
No idea, I thought Maude was the most shilled here. P&V is considered the best by most critics but Maude is good.
If you want to read Schwartz go ahead - no translation of AK is going to be awful or not worth reading.

>>15707240
Stop saying cope like an idiot.

>>15711104

>>15709133
>an honest brainlet is better than a brainlet pretending to understand what he doesn't
I feel it, man. But seriously come back, one day. One doesn't simply just turn away from Shakes.

>>15710808
>>15710860
>>15711093
It's the only one I've read that even gives so much as a hint to Tolstoys prose and style. There is no better translation Ive read (Maude, and p&v) i assure you. P&v have no sense of style and frankly I think their translations should never be read unless there is no alternative. They are pure garbage. Maude was nice but it's too 'corrected' for the sake of English sensibilities.

@15711038
Daily reminder Russian ESLs are the last people you want to take translation advice from

>>15711056
Her brother Steve posts here and shills it.

>>15711387
>Maude was nice but it's too 'corrected' for the sake of English sensibilities.
Better to have slight embellishments than translate "oбpaзyeтcиa" to fucking "shapify". Conjuring up some toddler-talk in an attempt to mimic a neologism with literary history in Russia is disgusting.

>>15711387
>Maude was nice but it's too 'corrected' for the sake of English sensibilities.
Nothing wrong with this.

>>15708741
Wholesome

>>15711542
Yes, because instead of reading Tolstoy's style you're reading Maude's. Regardless of whatever little words the Russian autist shreiks at, you get a lot more of Tolstoy our of the Schwartz translation than you do the others.

>>15711735
>a lot more of Tolstoy
there's a point where the degrees by which you can glimpse an author's true pen and style become so marginal that it doesn't really matter. I think we find that here.

>>15711881
They are marginal which is why I said >>15711094
Other than the Un-revised Garnett no translation is going to unworthy of a read. The Schwartz shill is just delusional for some, pretending to know Tolstoy's style while not even understanding basic Russian. The translation of "oбpaзyeтcиa" to "shapify" exemplifies that Schwartz does capture Tolstoy's style; making up English words to try an mimic a unique word in Russian - that Tolstoy chose for it's semantic relevance - is nonsensical.

Most critics say P&V as the best, followed by Maude primarily on the basis of Tolstoy's endorsement (which was probably merely a social/political choice).

>>15711976
doesn't capture Tolstoy's style* [but inserts her own]

>>15711976
>followed by Maude primarily on the basis of Tolstoy's endorsement (which was probably merely a social/political choice).
Can you explain? Exactly what about his endorsement would have been socially/politically motivated?

>>15706962
you're dead fucking wrong on that one, buddy

>>15706962
Based.

>>15708551
Strongly disagree about Oblonsky. While he was pretty based and I really enjoyed him-- his ability to liven any scene making it come alive, and his uncompromising character made him one of my favorite characters in the novel-- it's just that 'uncompromising character' is arguably why he's a pretty shit person; his charisma just pulls the wool over your eyes from the truth about him. He offsets financial incompetence, his inability to functionally provide for his wife and children, and incorrigibly impure morals with his eloquent rhetoric. Why dwell on his problems when you can chum it up with him to a platter of oysters and a nice chianti? Levin proves to be a better husband to her than he ever was.

Vronsky is just a sad sack of shit, and never deserved to get shit on like he did. Hope he died a heroes death in the Balkans.

The Man Without Qualities or Don Quijote.

>>15711976
crazy that we have a paid translator in our midst

>>15706656

>>15712922
Shit opinion

>>15706837
Depends if you’re interested in men and women or history and time.
For me it’s War and Peace.
The scene where prince Andrei gets btfo’d by the French and lies looking up at the sky... if you know you know

>>15707240
Ahahahaha muh art movie of the year

>>15706667
do you know what the word nuance means ?

>>15707792
Nah he’s right, zoomers and millennials enter film via Tarantino and Wes Anderson and then think they’re deep for finding entry level canon filmmakers like bresson or Tarkovsky or Bergman. This is usually after they’ve already put the “2001: A Space Odyssey” poster up in their dorm

>>15712967
There is a reason Tarkovsky and Bergman are canon though. Whether or not they are "entry level" is besides the point.
The Space Odyssey thing is of course ridiculous.

>>15713063
Tarkovsky along with many other influential directors cite Bergman as their inspiration, Tarkovsky even filmed The Sacrifice near the location of where Bergman used to shoot and even got Nykvist to be his cinematographer.

>>15708741
>I'd highly discourage anyone from getting into poetry by starting with Futurism.
CRINGE
RINGE anonymous anon
40 gradi avanti
Marinetti avanguardia
testo
testo verde green
based based
.................>>>>>
M
A
VLTR marinetti A VLTRA

hrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm
hrrrrrrrrrruuuuuummmmmmm hrrrrmmmm

>>15714218
dangerously
(form former
ely holy)
based
a
s
é
Anonymous
VIVA
gradi farti
avantgardi
<......................or
>>>>>>>>>>>grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

...
yes

>>15712406
Quixote, yes. The Man Without Qualities sucks balls.

>>15714503
Basado.

>>15714218
>>15714243
B
A
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A
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I
&
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P
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