/lit/ - Literature

trans women are women

Smoking cant be proven to cause cancer.

OP will lose his virginity

>>15673824
Momentum is the most important and overlooked trait of the psyche

>>15673824
The world is run by a kabal of saturn-worshipping demonic jews who rape children to honor moloch and plan to bring on the NWO through information overdose and build an all-encompasing technological system under a global government. They will also chip us and kill half the population.

>>15674024
to be fair that view is pretty mainstream now, particularly among facebook boomers

>>15674024
every retarded, sclerotic, senile qanon boomer believes this shit, this isn't strange or subversive whatsoever

>>15673824
Arguments on /lit/ are worthwhile

>>15673824
All drugs should be legal. The war on drugs is going nowhere.

>>15673941
Inertia sciences should be a thing

all art is a subgenre of pornography

>>15673941
Elaborate

Science inevitably creates a post-truth society

>>15674160
t. freud

>>15673824
We need to return to a pre-industrial society just so that women have no chance of gaining rights

>>15674171
Everything good and bad that constructs your subjective experience has momentum attached to it

>>15673824
That aesthetics is the true kernel and foundation for all human thought and behaviour (culture, religion, science, politics etc.)

>>15674036
>>15674068
no but it's pretty retarded and I thought that was the point

I believe Detroit is the sight of the "New Jerusalem" and future heaven on earth

>>15673824
I think our experience of reality is a motion through a rhizomatic structure that intersects with other people's motions and then deterritorializes from them almost like an MMO has instanced shards that people might drop in and out of, and that this explains uncertainty, relativity, and various other physical concepts that I am in no way qualified to be taken seriously about. Rather than one reality and many lenses it's a lot of lenses and no reality.

Sm
>>15674192
pre-enlightenment too

Smoking is healthy desu.
>>15674192
pre-enlightenment too.

Nobody should give a fuck about your quirky affected "opinions" uness you have money to pay me. I wish all u fags would fuck off to twitter, reddit, or discord and whack off to yourselves there.

>>15674403
this is my diary desu

>>15673829
>>15673870
>>15673899
>>15673941
>>15674024
>>15674070
>>15674160
>>15674177
>>15674253
>>15674302
>>15674341
>>15674393
>>15674403
Give a why or fuck off with your hot garbage takes.

>>15674428
because i say so, faggot

>>15674428
Mass quoters were the trenchcoats and boots in gym class type

>>15674302
>reasoning
Michigan transliterates in Hebrew to Meeshee Gan, or "Sensible Garden," a practical garden of Eden. So, it is appropriate that the New Jerusalem will be in Michigan. Also, the geography of Michigan is symbolically perfect in this regard (surrounded by fresh water, "green thumb".)

Detroit is French for "Strait," a ship channel, and it is reasonable that the New Jerusalem will be where all things pass through.

The southern most road in Detroit is Eureka Road: You must go up, past eureka, to reach enlightenment.

Detroit's motto is "It shall rise from the ashes," and "renaissance city," so the seed is planted for its resurrection.

Due to underutilization of its unique geography, Detroit has the most untapped potential of any city in North America, favoring rapid growth sometime in the current century.

And I believe that Detroit is the only place on Earth the mythical city can be without provoking jealousy or resentment.

>>15674453
Didn't you get the memo? The New Jerusalem will be built in Independence, Missouri.

>>15674567
It will be Detroit precisely because no one expects it

>>15674428
tell us why we should give you a why

Modern burials and cremations are stupid. When you die, your remains should be left in the wilderness for the wild animals to eat.

>>15674443
Are you actually accusing anyone who can engage with more than one idea at once of being a terrorist? Keep sucking dick, I suppose.

>>15674661
you post like a woman

>>15674642
no. bodies ought to be mulched for agricultural purposes.

>>15674689
Bodies should be strung up to warn people against dying

>>15674737
and when they fall from the post it can be into a mulcher placed in wait below.

>>15674756
No, they should be eaten by hungry children

>>15673824
I don't hold any beliefs that I find strange or peculiar.

>>15673824
We’re all anarchists

>>15673824
Synchronicities are how the Divine talks to us.

look up Lilly's ECCO

>>15674251
That’s an interesting extension of that, I like it. It’s like conservation of mass, I don’t think anything good or bad that happens to you is truly out of sight out of mind even when it feels like it

>>15673824
Pitbulls should be euthanized.

All countries should outlaw proselytism, just like Iran does.

>>15673829
also this

>>15674773
spooky

>>15674773
based weirdo who is probably a serial killer

>>15673824
the person who throws a punch deserves slightly more sympathy than the person who gets punched

Trannies are at the vanguard of human consciousness

Zeno’s paradoxes haven’t been satisfactorily solved

any action can be justifiable

>>15674393
Elaborate on the smoking is good meme please

>>15674863
I think the same, syncronicities are the way the divine show us if we're on the correct path

>>15673870
Redpill me on this

>>15674763
Why don't we let the hungry children eat the corpses, then we put them in the mulcher.

>>15674160
Meh, Baudrillard already tackled this when he realized that sexuality has gone weighless and now can refer to any desire.

>>15673824
transgenderism is a result of late stage capitalism

>>15675715
Excellent idea!

>>15673870
This.
>>15675431
See pic related.

>>15675742
Transgenderism plus a lot of other things

>>15673824
>This is a data collection thread just like the shelf/stack ones
JK, OP is not a flamboyant bundle of sticks

I suppose that the reason I hold no prejudice is because of "ass and titties". I don't care what race, or any political fog that surrounds, as long as there are fat asses out there I can believe in this world. This world view gets me through the day and i'm content with it.

>>15673824

If reincarnation is real it isn't necessarily subject to time. Which means that if it is real you might just reincarnate in the past after you die.

>>15675742
>>15675851
how so?

>>15675879
>If reincarnation is real it isn't necessarily subject to time. Which means that if it is real you might just reincarnate in the past after you die.
This is what I call a Socratic trip.

>>15675877
based coomer

>>15673824
we should ressocialize incels and use their forums only to gather them, invade their houses and take them to a special place to ressocialize them and stop their puer aeternus mind by force

>>15675742
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_people
quite a few trans people on this list existed before late stage capitalism

>>15675804
Just the thought that i share this board with people like you.

>>15676285
Not him, but it does seem like the sudden boom the world has seen these last 10 years stem from a situation in late capitalism, where money holds no real power within a certain group and they adopt the currency of status as a replacement.

>>15673824
God created me to see if I would crack under loneliness. That's why he gave me BPD, autism, and Bipolar disorder, and it's why he makes sure to put me in situations where I fall in love with people and then put them off with the above illnesses.

>>15673829
Hold up, is this considered a strange view? Weren't people up at arms for Rowling saying the opposite? Fuck TERF scum. Transwomen are women.

>>15673824
White trash people are not white. Anyone who doesn’t live in an affluent neighborhood of a major Metropolitan area (NY, Chicago, LA, a few other cities) isn’t American.

>>15675804
this is the most retarded shit ive seen all day

>>15676549
You might want to add schizophrenia to your list of ailments there, job.

>>15676616
Yet you cannot even explain why which indicates frustration and ultimately projection on your part.

Systematic oppression is the only thing holding back Black Americans. They could all be doctors and astronauts

>>15676616
>this is the most retarded shit ive seen all day

I am convinced that zebras have the highest level of spirituality in the animal kingdom and that their stripes convey messages from God

>>15673824
Eating my own snot is good for my immune system

>>15676618
I'm not schizophrenic, I've actually been examined for all kinds of things. I don't literally believe that, of course, but I am religious and so it hurts to have all of my hopes rebuffed despite having tried so hard.

>>15676522
>transition
>lose social status
>parents reject you
>banks refuse to lend/landlords refuse to rent to you with no legal repercussions
>end up homeless while some vulgar materialist dickwipe on 4channel yaps about money having no real power
https://sojo.net/articles/homeless-trans-and-non-binary-people-are-unsheltered-higher-rates

>>15676665
Just channel your autism into being cool and aloof. If you have the impulse to talk to someone, make yourself say nothing. If you have to make small talk, talk about bullshit. Women get turned off by what you do, never what you don’t do. Don’t blame god before blaming yourself, take that shame and put it to good use.

>>15675877
Based non-political non-racist coomer anon, may you bring about world peace with fat asses

>>15673870
this is technically true but it is so probable that it might as well be proven

>>15674160
agree with this is some form. Sex is interesting, and I wish people weren't so squeamish about using it to make sense of desire.

Terence McKenna is right about time speeding up and the end of history, he just got the date wrong (which he himself said might be off by hundreds of years)

>>15674773
Only sane man itt.

>>15675877
Cringe and slavepilled. Coooming is now the opium of the masses.

>>15676649
That ass is SPEAKING to me!

>>15676549
I have bipolar, and this is what I used to think when I had mania. Although my illness sometimes gives me really unique insight into the world and delusions of grandeur like yours, I've resigned myself to the fact I'm just a genetic defect. I admire your faith though. If you try to get medicated and stable, a functioning relationship (and normalcy) is still within your grasp. God bless.

>>15673824
Hitler is the 9th avatar of Kalki.

>>15673824
I can talk with God.

>>15676549
wish i could hug you

>>15674428
Sure. When I say science creates a post-truth society what I mean is that by striving to create a complete picture of the material world and it’s systems, it unintentionally undermines truth. As the scientific model of the material world becomes ever more complex, so to does our society. This is because science creates the opportunity for our societies to become exponentially more complex (enabling globalization, Diversifying kinds of roles people can play in system, etc). As a result modern society becomes so bloated with information that one could construct two diametrically opposed worldviews using nothing but factual information, and both worldviews would be completely different from not only each other but the actual truth. This environment makes it easier for false information to spread as fact-checking everything is impossible. As such, the notion of truth becomes entirely meaningless, since any attempt to process all of the relevant information into a worldview is functionally impossible

>>15673941
musil talks about this

This isn't terribly "strange", but I think that the recent mass shooting in Minneapolis, the strings of lynchings (no pun intended) from the past couple of weeks, and the fireworks going off are just government operations to get the US population back on board with the police, and to avoid more chaos. Also, it's more likely than not that 9/11 could have been prevented but was allowed to happen to fuel war, but this is a pretty mainstream opinion now, I think

>>15673829
wow what a radical opinion, not at all held by the majority of smoothbrains in the mainstream or every corporate body

I want to accelerate the collapse of the world into decentralized and simpler societies, so that new art forms incompatible with the current status quo emerge.

>>15673824
Gnostic Theonomy

>>15676694
Banks dont have a line on ther ledgers for 'tranny'. It just so happens that kelpto drug addicts are really bad with money

>>15677035
BLM is controlled opposition. The entire thing is one big charade, a controlled burn, a release valve for the plebs anger in a safe direction. Make them mad about the spectre of racism and theyre a lot less likely to lash out against the global capitalist edifice

>>15674024
I thought everybody knew this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v6dV3fQLzpM

>>15677138
This.

>>15677138
Also, bet most of them rose some time during Occupy.

>>15674036
no better way to discredit a theory than have bots post terrible memes about it on boomer facebook

>>15676823
Does she respond?

>>15677096
I'm not hoping for the same goal but I thought coronavirus might have had a chance for toppling some western power structures
>tfw no societal collapse

>>15674251
Deleuzian take...

>>15677675
I actually never read him ahaha, but I'm amazed I've reached the same conclusion he did. Now I'm inclined to give him a read

>>15673824
Some will be welcome here but out in the wild, these would get me cancelled
>Democracy is the stupidest system of governance
>I would rather have a Fascist dictator of the most boastful macho sort than the most "sane" Marxist leader
>I think Uncle Ted and Pentti Linkola are both right and we will destroy ourselves
>As such.... the greatest mistake in history may have been to nearly eradicate child mortality
>Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Liberalism are all fucking garbage
>Punching alt-right spastics is still cringe, even if they are a silly movement, but punching Antifa is a legitimate act of self defense
>I'd rather have slavers statues up and Karl Marx's in London down
>We don't have to apologize for anything in history
>Furthermore, we should not explain it away either. By saying "he was a man of his time" is conceding that if you were to find someone particularly racist for his time (maybe Lovecraft) then you would have to say "oh well, yeah, he is perhaps beyond saving". And saying that other races were violent and slavers is still a cuck. Just don't apologize.
>I suspect man is incapable of "creating" a society of any meaning or stability, and the only good societies are the ones he doesn't create at all, as in small island communities of a few thousand people
>It might have been better for us never to have been a species
>I think if some guy flipped a switched and all the nukes, smallpox samples, Saran gas were released and all but 10m people died, I would think him to have zero moral guilt on his shoulders and would hope he would not regret it
>Technology is literally a religion
>People say we are post-industrial when describing the "Information Age" but this is to make it more palatable that the evils of Industrialism are continuing, really the miniaturisation of tech is just the ongoing industrialisation of the developed world. It is a revolution that never really ends. It just gets separated because they are shiny gadgets, not big hulking machines. They are just as wasteful and destructive.
And one I have been thinking about a lot recently...
>There is no such thing as politics, only history. All movements/regimes are inevitable manifestations of the history of the region. Fascism was the inevitable culmination of war defeat and fears of communism, dictators in the Middle East are inevitable occurrences of a broken region etc. The idea you vote for a party and now the nation resembles their policies is cringe. They voted for conservatives, now we will have Gilead and abortion will be illegal. Plebs, these parties are steering a ship in a storm with a spoon, not a rudder!

>>15673870
Based

>>15673824
I'm of the opinion that relativity is correlated to body mass and that for a microscopic single celled organism one second of our time feels like thousands of years for them and for a giant one second of time is thousands of years on earth

>>15674160
based

The George Floyd murder had absolutely nothing to do with race. It was bad policing.

and

"Black lives matter is a terrorist organization, worse than the kkk" -Jesse Lee Peterson

>>15673824
Probably just determinism, not in a theological sense, but mostly just the belief that every action has a specific set of causes that, if they were all knowable, would allow a theoretical omniscient entity to trace everything that's ever happened in the universe back to the big boom. Since our thoughts are just molecules and energy, what happens within them would also be theoretically knowable if we had the tools to see it in perfect precision.

None of these opinions in this thread are strange

Using hand sanitizer and wearing masks is horrible for your immune system. You need exposure to maintain your defenses.
That's why you get little runts with so many allergies and asthma these days. Mom doesn't want Timmy to play in the dirt. Mom doesn't let Timmy have peanuts and shellfish while he's growing. Mom vacuums the house 3 times a day. Mom doesn't allow dogs or cats in the house next to baby Timmy.
There's a forest of invisible creatures designed to fight for your protection and you massacre them because you think people are made of plastic to be wiped down like furniture.
The soil is alive in the same way a body is.

>>15678835
Yeah honestly I can't remember the last time I've washed my hands. I clean my apartment once a month, at which point I collect up and take out all the trash, do all the dishes, vacuum, etc. I shower usually twice a week, and that's only really to wash my hair because it starts looking greasy. I never get sick. Never. I am a fucking filthy human being and I just don't get sick. Correlation isn't causation, but it really makes me think sometimes.

Employers should be legally required to buy houses for their employees

Identity is a bankrupt concept

>>15678918
In what sense?

>>15678921
Not him, but I agree. The concept of identity attempts to mash together some kind of static definition from poorly fitting parts as if the process of "you" has somehow come to a definitive end where everything is finite and discrete. Anything that comes after this identity point (some choose to draw it at birth, delineated by things like skin color) can only be viewed in the context of this identity as something which conflicts or supports it. When you view things from the standpoint of a static identity, the only way you can see things are as "good" or "bad," without much room for nuance. It's a convenient way to rationalize and simplify the machinations of an increasingly complex world, but in the process of transposition you lose a lot of the fidelity, nuance, and even beauty, that the world has to offer -- all because you're incapable of even entertaining the notion that you might not just be a collection of components upon which experience is layered, but the layers themselves; a continuously operating procedural-self which is many different things to many different people at many different times.

>>15673870
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN I GOT LUNG CANCER FROM SMOKING??
>NOOOO THERES NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT BACKS THE CLAIM I CANT HAVE CANCER AND DIE NOOOOOOO

Religions exist because the ancient human mind had two distinct cognitive bodies, a passive "voice" and a domineering "voice". Individual and God.

The modern man has an unison mind, therefore he believes he's alone.

>>15678921
Identity is a means to constrain the human experience, not identify it. It's an idea that attempts to permanently affix labels, which are already empty in themselves, to provide an illusion of internal, psychological stability, despite the human experience being anything but. People are fundamentally amorphous, ambiguous, ever-changing beings. Identity as such stands dependent on external stable categories: I am a carpenter, gay, I like this or I dislike that. Capitalism requires people to actively define themselves and remain in that definition for the market: in other words, people are told to "stick" to something. The mass wave of identity crises we've seen in the west can only occur in a society where one is required to define themselves permanently on a psychic as well as social level. This is not, I should note, am argument against one's personality, that is not sufficient enough for a concept of identity, but instead the external categories one is told to dissolve oneself in.

4chan saves the world

>>15673824
Brahma is the one true God

>>15677138
cool image

>>15678780
>The George Floyd murder had absolutely nothing to do with race. It was bad policing.
Many people believe this.

It will get better.

>>15678973
>>15678999
I think people are so complex that perhaps both are true at the same time. There is a floating set of attributes that never seem to be sufficient indicators of any cohesive identity.

But there are also elements you can never get over. A man is a man, and no amount of medical intervention will change his male brain/body and its outlook on the world. I believe that race is an insurmountable element of life and people can form some friendly relations with individuals of another group, but fundamentally, we are only ever non-atomized and at home in a tribe.

Maybe the division is in the animal and primate brains. The former is insurmountable, but our sapient experiences are like shifting sand dunes and hard to pin point.

As for external categories, I am unsure, as how mush is "told" to you really? The carpenter part, perhaps, but the gay part? I think the "society expects X" attitude is mostly bunk as people overestimate the power of passive brainwashing, or if its even there at all.

>>15676649
I remember reading something about a guy who seek mesages of gods in the fur of tigers

>>15676694
You couldn't have misunderstood what i was saying more if you actively tried

I used to be paranoid that my local community knew that I was retarded and didn't tell me out of pity/love.

I believe I have a guardian angel(s), and I intuit it's one or both of my grandmothers. They died before I was born, but I've had this intuition for quite some time.

>>15673941
Any book recommendations about this?

>>15676649
What would happen if you scan a zebra with a barcode scanner?

>>15673824
The universe's life is a cycle meaning that after it dies off, it will happen again exactly like before. We shall relive our lives over and over as consequence of that.

>>15679076
There's a world of difference between being a biologically male and The Male Identity. "The Male Identity" could have feasibly been anything, but in turn becomes enshrined as a collection of static characteristics. To embody "the male Identity" means forcing yourself to express those characteristics.

None of this is about brainwashing, it's about how ideology functions. Identity stuff occurs on the most minute level. It's the rationalization of human beings into categories. You are not necessarily explicitly told by any figure (except perhaps a parent) to be any particular identity, but you nonetheless are fully expected, by the market and by society at large, to be able to be labeled. Combine that with Neoliberalism's "Be Who Want to Be" and "Work should be your passion" and you end up in a situation where gender, racial, and labor identity crises are rampant. Byung-Chul Han touches on this a lot in "The Burnout Society", but approaches it from a perspective of self-exploitation

>>15677138
>church

This makes me think if we just live in a phase where the church, religion and non-materialistic values are fading because people realized the problems of the secular world, but after a while they'll understand that the secular world will always be problematic in one way or another and when they get tired of all the complexities, paradoxes and cultural degeneration that inevitably come when dealing with a just structure of the social order that then they start to turn to religion and non-materialistic values again. Social and cultural developement based on materialistic and scientific values can only generate so much justice and consent and wealth, but the limitations of human intellect and emotions will strike back manifestating in a demand for truth, which cannot be provided by philosophy but religion only as people are concerned with beliefs more than with accuracy and reason.

One of the better threads on /lit/ in a while

>>15673824
That I'm somehow cosmically connected to an unremarkable regretful Galician parish priest from the 1600's. I don't believe in reincarnation, but If I did that would explain everything.

>people agree that identity is bunk
>still use the term "I"

>>15679300
didn't read, lol

>>15679316
>The self is the same as social identity
This is precisely the critique.

>>15678918
Identity is how others perceive you and in that sense it's pragmatic concept. It structures your behaviour. Internally you can disconnect from this identity but you always know that others judge you and that's why you care in the first place about what or who your are and if others approve of the image they have of you or not.

The female orgasm is superfluous and serves no purpose

>>15679316
"I" is a placeholder, obviously. It's probably the most singularly complete reduction in the English language. It's hard to find anything else which abbreviates something as large and complex with such a simple moniker.

>>15679182
>"The Male Identity" could have feasibly been anything, but in turn becomes enshrined as a collection of static characteristics
Exactly what I was arguing against. There are obviously outliers, but most men have in them clear and vast divides from the female identity. I had this discussion with someone the other day, where they argued that martial arts and other expressions of controlled violence are there because they are learned and thrust upon men by society. I am a keen martial artist and I know that this is bullshit.

There is no "toxic masculinity" thrust on us that makes young men love violence. We love to compete naturally and we love to pour out our aggression however we can. It is cross cultural, and found in isolated societies. Wrestling and competitive grappling is pretty much found all over the world as are other forms of combat sports.

>You are not necessarily explicitly told by any figure (except perhaps a parent) to be any particular identity, but you nonetheless are fully expected, by the market and by society at large, to be able to be labeled
With certain things yes, businesses like to segregate their audience to know how to market stuff to each group separately. My company does this, we need to market to the people we sell to effectively. But I can pretty much tell you the outcome of putting a human in the forest and having them raised by wolves (figuratively I mean).

You know that those people raised away from mass society will not develop feels of sexual attraction to inanimate objects or non-sexual things, they won't develop a craving for rotting meat, they won't want to play in fecal matter. If that is still too biological for you, then fine. I could probably guess higher level elements of a person's thinking too. You can label them fairly easily as male in their behaviour. You can see the assertiveness, the risk vs reward behaviors, the will to control an environment, the hierarchical behaviors of conceding control when they cannot compete and taking control when they are the most competent in the room.

Having worked in technological capitalist enterprises for some time, I can tell you that the "expectations" and the efforts to control you are really like trying to steer a ship by changing the temperature of the ocean. Yeah, it'll maybe cause a cold front. And that will mean the eaves move one way a little more, but you are only influences it somewhat.

>>15679182
>"The Male Identity" could have feasibly been anything,
no, because male brain =/= female brain, therefore different general identities. these differences express themselves through culture, however they are rooted in biology
of course, there will be outliers. we are talking generalities

>>15673824
internal combustion personal vehicles shouldn't exist and are one of the worst and most damaging inventions of humanity.

>>15679416
You are completely missing the point. A collection of characteristics does not an identity make. It is identity as a concept itself that propagates the categorization as "The Male Identity". I'm not even talking about "Toxic Masculinity", but instead the creation of the "Male Identity" out of culturally and historically contingent notions that, in themselves, are also empty. I'm not talking here about whatever generic traits and expressions that come along with the Y chromosome, but the ideological leap that must be made to turn those expressions into an identity.

>You know that those people raised away from mass society will not develop feels of sexual attraction to inanimate
This isn't true at all, by the way.

>It's cross cultural
And any anthropologist will tell you the deep, philsophical problematics of analyzing other cultural dynamics through the lense of our own understandings. Let's not fall into this trap.

>>15679474
Imagine being able to walk freely wherever you'd like in your city and not get clamped on the side of the streets to avoid getting killed by tons of speeding steel...

>>15673829
i'm a transwoman and i readily admit im doing it because im a massive faggot and growing old as a male is gross

>>15673941
this is supported by computational neuroscience

>>15677138
marxism is a 'red herring' meant to keep alienated white discontents from posing a real threat to the system through ethnic advocacy and racist right wing revolution.

>>15679556
how so? women age like shit

>>15679509
>the creation of the "Male Identity" out of culturally and historically contingent notions that, in themselves, are also empty
>the ideological leap that must be made to turn those expressions into an identity
But if there are general and observable trends in a gender, for example, surely the "leap" is actually simply a self-evident conclusion??

>This isn't true at all, by the way
You telling me that if Uncle Ted has a kid that he raised as a son in that cabin of his, he'd be out that at puberty trying to fuck a particularly attractive tree stump?

>And any anthropologist will tell you the deep, philsophical problematics of analyzing other cultural dynamics through the lense of our own understandings. Let's not fall into this trap.
What problem is there here? Can you observe the presence of martial arts and other competitive/aggressive behaviors or not? Or are you suggesting that Mongolian Steppe wrestling is actually a form of communication and we just saw it as a combat sport because of our bias?

Another thing anon, this criticism presupposes that culture is the defining mould of an identity. You are putting the cart before the horse. I see X here and there so it is cross cultural. No, because we know culture makes those things. But I just saw it across many cultures. No, you probably didn't really, because AS WE ALL KNOW those things are pushed on us by culture. You have yet to establish whether these are natural or cultural.

>Let's not fall into this trap.
Let's not speak patronizingly to other anons like we a better informed parent figure, hmmm?

>>15674024
t. the average Trump voter

>>15679556
Just because you threw a dress on isn't going to change the fact you are growing old as a male. Are you fucking retarded?

>>15679556
It's the opposite. Men age like wine if they take care of themselves, women always age like shit. That's why men prefer younger women

>>15679589
>not believing in Slaaneshi demons in the current year

>>15673824
Materialism as an idea is a mind virus sent from the future by a victorious Satan.

>>15679586
>But if there are general and observable trends in a gender, for example, surely the "leap" is actually simply a self-evident conclusion??
The claim here is that there's in fact nothing self-evident about it. Identity as an ideology is what makes it appear self-evident.

>he'd be out that at puberty trying to fuck a particularly attractive tree stump
He'd probably have inanimate objects as a fixation of his sexuality or erotic energy. This is what Fetishism is at its most basic.

>Wrestling
I can't engage with this analogy since I don't know anything about wrestling.

>But I just saw it across many cultures
This is the problematic. Are you "seeing" it across cultures or are you projecting a particular notion onto a culture and reading it via that notion, rather than attempting to first fully understand the culture on its own terms and compare differences. Doing so with identity brings up a lot of serious contradictions.

>You have yet to establish whether these are natural or cultural.
I reject this dichotomy. The natural is inevitably read through the culture. This is partially the whole thrust of the critique, that identity is enshrined as "nature" when it's purely cultural; that we have no access to the "purely natural human".

>Let's not speak patronizingly to other anons like we a better informed parent figure
It's just an annoying protracted discussion that distracts from the actual one.

>>15674642
based

>>15679135
My Grandfathers spirit lives on in me, certainly. Many tell me how similar we are in personality and even appearence. I'm Glad I could spend my earliest years with him

>>15675742
Transgender animals exist

>>15679556
>This thing that is happening has bad consequences
>If I deny reality, maybe the consequences will go away
No wonder you dress as a woman, you were never a man.

>>15678503
>>There is no such thing as politics, only history. All movements/regimes are inevitable manifestations of the history of the region. Fascism was the inevitable culmination of war defeat and fears of communism, dictators in the Middle East are inevitable occurrences of a broken region etc. The idea you vote for a party and now the nation resembles their policies is cringe. They voted for conservatives, now we will have Gilead and abortion will be illegal. Plebs, these parties are steering a ship in a storm with a spoon, not a rudder!
well said, i agree

>>15679573
how?

>>15679669
There are a handful of species of simple organisms that can change their sex when there are no males present so that sexual reproduction still happens in the population. That is not the same as having zero biological ability to change sex and deciding that you're a woman even though you have a penis.

>>15673824
Anyone who believes that suffering or pain are bad is basically still a child; it's a kind of hedonism. Most of the things that are good to do in life involve pain or suffering. The idea that it's justified by the consequences having some abstract pleasure that's greater is ridiculous, and is a sign of people who are still basically behaving as animals. Pain and even death have no relation to morality. Something that is worth doing is worth doing even if the consequence is immediate death, and the only way to be truly alive is to accept that death is inevitable, and be content with dying at any moment so that you never do something simply to stay alive.

>>15675921
they obviously got brianwashed into it by tumblr or ended up that way from watching too much anime pornography

Living in the 21st century is more difficult than any precious human life

>>15679731
Previous*

>>15679731
probably not more difficult but certainly more alienating

>>15677138
Newspeak at its finest

The overwhelming majority of conspiracy theories exist because it's easier for people to believe in coordinated antagonism than it is to believe that the world is just full of scared, stupid people acting in their own self-interest

>>15675804
Is tobacco the most /lit/ drug?

Taylor Swift has a virginity clause in her recording contract and it's why none of her relationships last for more than a few months. The clause is there because sexual promiscuity runs counter to the good Christian girl vibes her persona projects.

>>15679770
conspiracies objectively exist, they don't even bother trying to hide it anymore its all out there in the open. why do security agencies always have foreknowledge of mass shootings and terrorist attacks? often being in contact with the perpetrators?

>>15675733
>Meh, Baudrillard already tackled this
could literally be said about literally anything, literally

>>15679647
>The claim here is that there's in fact nothing self-evident about it. Identity as an ideology is what makes it appear self-evident.
No it doesn't. It is self evident that gender is natural, not manufactured or even clay-moulded-into-X-shape. You must prove otherwise. Where is the source of the identity if it is manufactured? What is it in its natural state? What pressured are needed to make it as it is?

>He'd probably have inanimate objects as a fixation of his sexuality or erotic energy. This is what Fetishism is at its most basic.
And what would they be in the shape of if they were fixations? He would see (at most) an animal's ass as sexual. You think he would never find a woman attractive if he had been raised almost entirely away from them? That he would be unable to become aroused as the person is not a lump of moss? Absurd, of course. A person's sexuality is not so malliable as to create attraction to soil, dirt, wood, metal, paper, water, etc. Fetishistic objects might be some kind of psychological totem, but he isn't some kind of pica sufferer but for sex rather than food. He still wishes to mate with a women.

>I can't engage with this analogy since I don't know anything about wrestling.
You needn't just know that their are behaviors that are cross cultural. Dancing is pretty universal. What makes us misunderstand dance thanks to a cultural filter? Are we actually viewing a form of vigorous non-verbal debate over politics and we simply assign it to the category of dance? Absurd. Unless you have evidence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

>I reject this dichotomy. The natural is inevitably read through the culture. This is partially the whole thrust of the critique, that identity is enshrined as "nature" when it's purely cultural; that we have no access to the "purely natural human".
And my original point was that there are obviously levels of natural and cultural and a mix of the two (see my primate brain vs animal brain analogy) but the idea that we are formed up of some grand social conspiracy (concerted or not) is too much of a stretch. There is clearly some mix, but no, identity is not "purely cultural". These categories exist in nature. Our close evolutionary cousins show male and female traits. They are mostly heterosexual. They have larger physiques for the males and smaller for the females (again, mostly). Males mostly fight for access to women. Aggression and combat-play is common among males and sometimes both genders but rarely only females.

Even if you cannot isolate a "purely natural human" that does not mean that all things must therefore come from culture. You cannot alchemically isolate gold, and can only achieve around 99.99% purity, does this mean that all of golds conductive traits are actually from the trace elements like nickel or tin found in the mix? Man obviously is informed by his culture, but not purely.

>>15679770
That is the most normie belief ever, how is that the strangest thing you believe? I bet you only drink water, not because it's healthy, but because alcohol is "too spicy" for you.

>>15674024
OP said strangest or most peculiar anon. Everyone who isn't a NPC knows this.

>>15679684
Cheers mate. I have been mulling on this for a bit but find it hard to articulate this poitn. My friend said something the other day like it. We are Brits for context. He mentioned some farce headline in a paper saying that "Boris Johnson has allowed 40,000 people to die in Britain". He laughed and said, "what? is he sat at some control panel picking out daily quotas or something?".

This is the attitude I am baffled by. Of course, it was some salty Labour journalist just scoring points, but the point stands, people expect that the world is just some sandbox, and if you have a politician who you give a budget to, then the world should just reflect his vision in a year or two, right? Nuts!

He is only arguing what he is arguing because history has landed us here. The same man would be arguing for the King to remain supreme if it were 300 years ago in France. We think we have some argument or debate to have over ideas, we don't. We are like people who eat at one of those restaurants that just bring out the meal, no menus, and you and your dinner guest argue of the great issue of what is the "true" correct option, chilled or warm creme-brulee. Blind idiots don't realise that you are only at this junction in history because main course followed sorbet, which followed appetizers.

>>15676549
obsessive thoughts time management problems just feel generally disoriented in my everyday life, crippling shyness, sensory unpleasantness i have forgotten how even falling in love may feel like now i just get flashbacks to pornography,

>>15676907
You cannot have truth in Capitalism. Capitalism only favor lies, because lies make more profit than truth.
Anyway, NPCs don't want the truth, even if you give them.

>>15679729
>Anyone who believes that suffering or pain are bad is basically still a child
holy shit this. I get funny looks when I train in ridiculous and outlandishly hard ways. I once hiked a minor peak with 2 cinder blocks in by pack and a 16kg iron kettlebell in one hand and people thought I was schizophrenic as they passed me on the trail. It was glorious to finish though. I believe that suffering is a gift.

>>15679793

Conspiracies do exist, my post allowed for that. Overwhelmingly they are the result of scared, stupid people acting in their own self-interest, not some byzantine multi-dimensional chess game with some unifying global goal being deliberated by shadowy faces in smoke-filled rooms.

>why do security agencies always have foreknowledge of mass shootings and terrorist attacks? often being in contact with the perpetrators?

Are you asking why security agencies are in contact with people plotting mass shootings and terrorist attacks? It's literally their job to infiltrate and neutralize these threats before they manifest. Like that's the whole point.

>>15679805

I bet you buy swords at the mall

>>15679876
>not some byzantine multi-dimensional chess game with some unifying global goal being deliberated by shadowy faces in smoke-filled rooms
Anon, I...

>>15679797
>It is self evident that gender is natural
You are still missing the point. Gender as an identity of not self-evident.

>Where is the source of the identity if it is manufactured?
As I stated earlier, it's a result of class, it's been required for the functioning of society. Identity begins with societal and economic roles defined by function, going as far to be embodied in naming. It's not "natural", it's created by society. That we somehow assume that nature is providing anything self-evident itself proves my point.

Those identities became enshrined cultural artefacts that the conditions themselves no longer require and in fact contradicted: and the whole thing is starting breaking down.

>And what would they be in the shape of if they were fixations?
That would depend entirely on his circumstances.
>A person's sexuality is not so malliable as to create attraction to soil, dirt, wood, metal, paper, water, etc.
And yet people have fetishes for all sorts of objects. It clearly is so malleable and able to be displaced.

>Dancing is pretty universal
And yet its particular expression and function are wholly contingent on its culture, meaning that there's no such thing as "the pure natural dance". Which is my whole point.

>And my original point was that there are obviously levels of natural and cultural
Where do you make the divide? The point at which you discern the difference between the natural and the cultural is itself a cultural claim.

>Even if you cannot isolate a "purely natural human" that does not mean that all things must therefore come from culture
The point is that there is no such thing as a direct access to "nature". "Nature" itself is a cultural, ideological concept.

>>15679876
even mainstream media outlets deal in unsubstantiated conspiratorial narratives russiagate for example, while doubling down in this hollowed out notion of 'truth' and legitimate journalism, when they have pretty much abandoned investigative journalism for ingroup agitation.

>>15679887
You bastard, I'll have you know I only buy my swords from the finest homeless bums

>>15679917
that's were i disagree with the left, their utopia seems to be a world were everyone is allowed to engage in every possible form of abnormal sex act no matter how disgusting but people are too fat and saturated by antidepressants and pornography to even desire it.

>>15673824
My Empiricism about modality maybe? I have probably quite a few beliefs most people dont share if thats how you define a strange belief.

>>15679940
Presumably "they" would reject the premiss that the acts in question are abnormal.

>>15679556
Based honesty.

But dont men age more gracefully then women tho?

>>15679924

Because mainstream media outlets are owned by absurdly wealthy people who are acting in their own self-interest, namely profit

>>15679940
I think the ideal leftist Utopia is where everyone's material needs are met and they're able to pursue whatever they please so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I also don't think sexuality would operate the same way, if you follow Marx's arguement, given that our relationship to ownership, use, and want would fundamental change. He even speaks of the "liberation of the senses", which is partially why he doesn't actually describe what communism would look like. Like Hegel, his argument makes clear that we cannot envision communism. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the problem with identity today though.

>>15679975
I refuse to believe the queers get any sexual satisfaction out of the sodomy anymore, these people don't have sex, they virtue signal and engage in shrill politically correct activities at the behest of george soros, the dnc and their marxist professors.

What was once eccentricities and personal particularities that truly made people individuals has now become garden variety mental illness which punishes and labels those who dare not conform. We live in a time of physical diversity but the diversity of mind/thought is unspeakable.

>>15679999
Confirmed by the gods

>>15679589
sorry sweaty but trump is also an interdimensional demonic jew

>>15679984
>He even speaks of the "liberation of the senses", which is partially why he doesn't actually describe what communism would look like


In 1977, a petition was addressed to the French parliament calling for the abrogation of several articles of the age of consent law and the decriminalization of all consensual relations between adults and minors below the age of fifteen (the age of consent in France). A number of French intellectuals - including such prominent names as Louis Aragon, Michel Foucault, Jean-Paul Sartre, Jacques Derrida, Louis Althusser, Roland Barthes, Simone de Beauvoir, Gilles Deleuze, Félix Guattari, Michel Leiris, Alain Robbe-Grillet, Philippe Sollers, Jacques Rancière, Jean-François Lyotard, Francis Ponge, and various prominent doctors and psychologists - signed the petition.[1] In 1979 two open letters were published in French newspapers defending individuals arrested under charges of statutory rape, in the context of abolition of age of consent laws.
The Sexual Revolution and Children
How the Left Took Things Too Far
Germany's left has its own tales of abuse. One of the goals of the German 1968 movement was the sexual liberation of children. For some, this meant overcoming all sexual inhibitions, creating a climate in which even pedophilia was considered progressive.

oh please, normal people haven't realised what you freaks are truly after?

>>15679770
I agree with this until the point
>is just full of scared, stupid people acting in their own self-interest
i think placing a specific prescriptive is reductive. I would rather say its full of a lot of qualitatively different intentions that conglomerate into an abstract gestalt progression. Som of it isnt self interest, some of it isnt stupid. Some of it also is self interest and is stupid.

>>15679556
>I'm scared of growing old as male
>put on dress and lip stick
>ah much better

>>15679595
No, we do age much differently from cis men because we are running on female hormones
(T. Tranner)

>>15680031
Please go to /pol/ for political discussion.

>>15679917
>You are still missing the point. Gender as an identity of not self-evident.
Well if I am missing what you are saying at the core, then I will need you to offer something like a summary, cos we may be talking at cross purposes.

>As I stated earlier, it's a result of class, it's been required for the functioning of society. Identity begins with societal and economic roles defined by function, going as far to be embodied in naming. It's not "natural", it's created by society. That we somehow assume that nature is providing anything self-evident itself proves my point.
You make many statements but have not a lot to show your working. Somethings are clearly manufactured, like identity as a "worker" or a member of that class. But is gender, or ethnicity? I think not.

>That would depend entirely on his circumstances.
>And yet people have fetishes for all sorts of objects. It clearly is so malleable and able to be displaced.
You can find fetishism but it is extremely rare to find a sexual orientationa round the fetish alone. Foot fags like WOMEN'S feet, primary word there being women. They don't care for millipede feet, or for crabs legs etc. They have a fixation, but within a perfectly natural parameter to their natural attraction.

>And yet its particular expression and function are wholly contingent on its culture, meaning that there's no such thing as "the pure natural dance". Which is my whole point.
Again, within a parameter. The Viennese Waltz might be unique to Austria and some tribal dance to the Kalahari Desert, yet dancing is natural. No human culture ever manufactured it for some nefarious purpose. This is my whole point, that you have variations and variety, but you can't really do much and are stuck with what you've got. You can't ask some Djinn to summon it out of the aether or conspire to make it. No society ever conspired to make people dance.

>The point is that there is no such thing as a direct access to "nature". "Nature" itself is a cultural, ideological concept.
>"Nature" itself is a cultural, ideological concept
Well, as if to prove my point, anon makes a non-falsifiable statement. I am sorry anon, but simply because white Europeans, or whatever, identified traits in nature and documented it, does not mean that all meaning in nature is an ideological phantom. You have to prove it, as currently, you are claiming the counter-evidence to your argument is false because even evidence is an untrustworthy concept.

You are like some feminist who shot her husband and claims a woman cannot commit violence because of muh power relations, then when a detective produces the smoking gun, she claims the chemistry behind combustible gunpowder is a male dominated field, and therefore even the hardest evidence is now inadmissible.

>>15679999
Well I dont know what to tell you if you are this stupid, sounds like you are projecting with all this talk about not finding sexual satisfaction.

>>15680090
>tranner
How is it that gender is a social construct, yet hormones are necessary for transitioning?

>>15680127
Go ask a feminist, no one actually gives a shit about that except for them

>>15680158
what, may I ask, is your basic logic behind transitioning?

If you believe that biology is linked to gender (you must if you wish to transition), then why is your birth sex not informative to your gender?

>>15680127
This argument has been addressed a million times already, it is sex transitioning, not gender transitioning.

>>15680090
yeah you get fucking brittle bones and heart disease
they stopped selling it as a menopause remedy for a reason

>>15680189
Gender is a spoon, my masculine phenotype disturbs me and I have the ability to modify it to a certain extent. I fully admit I am a male with XY chromosomes and so on, I would just like to have a much more feminine phenotype, and adopting the gender roles of woman makes that process muh more smoothly, ie I'm much less likely to be harassed while wearing a dress if I'm in the women's room.

This view is pretty ideosyncratic so don't think you'll get this same explanation from other trans people

>>15680214
You have no fucking idea what you are talking about
Shoo!
>>15680222
Spook*

>>15680203
In order to align your sex with its "natural" biological position.

No one with a penis, who identifies as a man, ever got surgery to have a fake vagina installed.

Transpeople move their sex to align with their gender. This presupposes that they beleive sex and gender are linked. Begging the question, why are their grounds for them believing they are transgendered in the first place.

>>15680230
I am not sure I understand your question fully, but the reason they want their sex changed changed to align with their grnder is to avoid experiencing gender dysphoria. Is that what are you asking?

>>15680222
>>15680229
If gender is a spook, why are you trying to align your outward sex to "match" your internal sense of gender? You clearly believe there are genders and sexes, as you are manipulating one to match the other.

>I fully admit I am a male with XY chromosomes and so on, I would just like to have a much more feminine phenotype
So you are not a "women in a man's body" but just dislike your male specimen and want something else? This is hardly transgender. You just want to cosmetically alter your figure, then? Or have I misunderstood.

>I'm much less likely to be harassed while wearing a dress if I'm in the women's room
I can understand the mechanical reasons for hair, makeup, clothing etc. My issue is with the basic logic that you can transition at all. You know that once your transition is done, 30 trillion cells in your body will still disagree with you? The vagina you may have will be an imitation one, you are aware of this?

TEN THINGS I BELIEVE
----------------------------------

1. New words CAN be deliberately made up and introduced into the language, and have enormous power to change the way people think, and it doesn't take that big a group working in harmony to do it, and we should do it.

2. Short girls are sexier than tall ones.

3. Any country which instigated a sensible comprehensive eugenics program would be a fabulously wealthy paradise on earth in three generations.

4. J.R.R.Tolkien was a more important artist than Thomas Pynchon and his work will last longer.

5. A New Hope > Empire.

6. The Riemann Hypothesis is true and would not be that hard to prove if we just looked at it the right way.

7. Picasso is crap.

8. Big cities are loathsome and do immense, subtle damage to the human psyche.

9. Intelligent alien civilizations exist with probability = 1.

10. If I personally were put in charge of Earth I would improve things enormously. (But this is true for almost any sensible single individual.)

>>15680260
I am asking the exact nature of the argument or the fundamental reason for believing in transgenderism (for lack of a better word).

I actually get much more sense out of the trannies than the tranny theorists. If you said "there are two genders, I just wanna be the other one" I can get that.

But if you are basing the ability to chemically transition on the idea that gender is not real anyway, then you shoot yourself in the foot, because within that statement is its direct contradiction... "X and Y do not exist so I shall manipulate X to become Y, because of course we all know how why should look."

>>15680270
All the things I dislike about my body are formed by masculinization, and all the parts I like are androgynous.

I've felt jealous of what women got to do and be since a young child. And my anxiety about this has been alleviated since starting hormones.

I know my body won't ever be cis, but that's not the point. I'm mainly doing this to alleviate dysphoria.

I really don't care about the distinctions between sex and gender, you aren't going to logically convince me to not have a medical problem I've had most of my life

>>15680114
>I will need you to offer something like a summary
There are materially existent things. Humans are made up of various existent things that influence their expression in the world. These expressions in themselves do not make up an identity. That is, the mere existence of the characteristics included or suggested by "The Male Identity" do not in themselves inherently produce or suggest that identity. That particular identity is the result of cultural, historical, material processes of a particular human culture. The difference being articulated here is between an expression, or a group of expression, and the cultural interpretation of those expressions. Things are "seen" as being masculine, or feminine. This does not mean that they "are" masculine or feminine. There is no inherent interpretive framework. These frameworks, if you follow Dialectical Materialism, originate in the class structure. This is all to say that identity is wrapped up in, is itself, a mode of interpretation, and as such cannot be considered self-evident, inherent, "natural".

>You can find fetishism but it is extremely rare to find a sexual orientationa round the fetish alone.
That wasn't your original claim.

>yet dancing is natural
Y chromosomes are natural. The interpretation of the expression of that chromosome is not.

>does not mean that all meaning in nature is an ideological phantom
This is not my claim. Clearly things exist. Clearly there are processes that operate objectively. But you are claiming that we have a direct understanding or access to "nature" when it is always, clearly, through an interpretive frame. Can you make the divide between nature and culture?

>You are like some feminist who shot her husband and claims a woman cannot commit violence because of muh power relations
And you are like a baby who can't handle basic critical thinking or produce a meaningful counter-arguement without exaggerating claims to fit your own agenda.

>>15680319
Didnt you just acknowledge the distinction between sex and gender in your previous post, with how many anons am I arguing here

>>15680337
>you aren't going to logically convince me to not have a medical problem I've had most of my life
I am not trying to, and I am not going to any time soon. If that is how I came across, I apologize. I recognize that you and others may have feelings of dysphoria, my issue is when you say gender is a spook etc.

If you have some guy who is self conscious of his acne, and he then claims that beauty is a spook and an invention by capitalist society to sell him acne cream, then he would be a dope. Beauty exists, he just has an issue preventing him from being the ideal image of a handsome man.

If you and other trannies dispensed with the pseudo-science (and the harassing of public figures) I would have no problem. But let's not pretend than men and women do not exist. You don't want to be a woman, you just want to be more womanly.

>>15680353
I dunno how you mean or which post, or if it were me, but I can clarify if you link it?

>>15680398
Arent you acknowledging the distinction here:
>>15680230

>>15680342
>that summary tho
And how do you summize so confidently that this is all entirely or even mostly cultural? The presence of any cross cultural phenomena should be sufficient to throw doubt on this. The burden of proof is yours anon. For my humble part, I think it is clearly a mix. We clearly see the child abuse of Australian aboriginals as abhorrent, they see it as good practice. The difference is cultural. Men's aggression is not, and men fight for fun and out of necessity all of the world.

>class
I refuse to believe that, as mostly classless societies like hunter-gatherers also have basic gender roles.

>This is all to say that identity is wrapped up in, is itself, a mode of interpretation, and as such cannot be considered self-evident, inherent, "natural".
Only the DEGREE to which is natural is unknown, not the natural part. If it were, then your own theory can just as easily be considered untrustworthy, because how can we ever say that your theory is not bunk as it too is tangled up.

>That wasn't your original claim.
My claim didn't mention fetishes, it mentioned that people raised without many humans around don't become tree-sexual. Men raised around hunting parties don't become automatically homosexual. etc. Sexuality is fixed at birth, one of many characteristics that are decided by nature.

>This is not my claim. Clearly things exist. Clearly there are processes that operate objectively. But you are claiming that we have a direct understanding or access to "nature" when it is always, clearly, through an interpretive frame. Can you make the divide between nature and culture?
I am claiming that we clearly have an understanding that we are biological and social at the same time, not the degrees of each.

>Can you make the divide between nature and culture?
If you mean that genuinely rather than a flippant question, then what if I could not? How would you know that nature were not the sole originator of cultural forms, rather than cultural forms being somehow the originator of our concept of nature, as your previous post stated?

>And you are like a baby who can't handle basic critical thinking or produce a meaningful counter-arguement without exaggerating claims to fit your own agenda.
Says he who refuses the burden of proof and will show no clear connection from Class>gender roles.

>>15680467
I am only using the distinction created by the basic assumptions of "transgenderism". I am taking their argument at good faith.

This would be like me arguing that astrology is bunk by talking about Capricorn having no power over destiny or human fate, and having an astrologist use it as evidence I accept the zodiac myself.

If you would prefer, I will rephrase:
>If all that you claim is true... *post then follows*

>>15680572
Okay, so the reason the distinction is introduced in the first place is because we need some way to differentiate between when we are talking about the biological reality of the sexes and when we are talking about stuff like expected roles or patterns of behaviour associated with said sex. One way of accounting for this is to define the former as sex and the later as gender. The only problem I see with this way of speaking is that the concepts of masculinity/femininity are constituted by both biological and social features (for example having large breasts and wearing dresses, respectively), and so if we reserve "gender" for social features only, we cant also say that the concepts of femininity and masculinity refer to one's gender alone. Alternatively, we can define gender in a way that includes sex, but then we lose the intuitive formulation of transgender people as "people whose sex differs from their gender".

In the end I don't really care much about the technical terminology, most people are not smart enough to use them correctly anyway. The point is that trans women (I take them as an example, we can run the same logic with trans men as well) don't like to be called men because the current colloquial use of the term creates the expectation from others that they act and present themselves in masculine ways. So the solution usually offered is that we just change "woman" to refer to your identity, behaviour, presentation, and all that jazz and we keep "female" for the biological distinction.

>>15676611
That's dumb.

>>15680771
Wouldn't it be infinitely simpler to just acknowledge that "masculinity" is a spook and most people don't think you're unmanly because you're not a carbon copy of Teddy Roosevelt?

bull fighting and riding a brake less fixie thru traffic illegally are not only justifiable but completely necessary.

>>15673824
>Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

>>15680795
Well that's what the gender abolitionists propose. But the problem is that it's hard to get the normies on board with it, so we have to settle for loosening up the concepts a bit, for now at least.

>music is unexplainable in evolutionary terms and is proof that our aesthetic senses pick up on the fundemental beauty that nature has outside of perception

>even if god exists and is the ultimate thing and he is ALL, the idea of other gods or divinites that are alien to our god and completely seperate pains me as i or even god will never know of them.

>anti natalists are completely right. life might be good for you but imposing that on a potentail non-existant being is cruel. plus there are millions of things that could and will go very wrong and you WILL be a bad parent.

>>15678810
i agree. even if at a quantum level, things are fundementally random and unknowable, just wait and time will solidify reality. things will always be the way they will have been because in the future, the past is set in stone.

People who don't tend their gardens or in general keep their living spaces aesthetically pleasing are subhuman.

>>15680893
yes, you are based

>>15679540
seriously. look at this, it's a fucking tragedy

>>15673824
jerking off is gay because you're still getting pleasured by a man

>>15680869
>>15680270
if gender was abolished trans people would still exist.
as a trans person it's just intrinsic to who i am that i feel more comfortable with female body characteristics. i don't dress much more feminine since transitioning, i have the same masculine hobbies i enjoy and i won't give those up. since starting hormones and gaining those female body characteristics my mental health has been infinitely better. i would still be uncomfortable in a male body even if gender did not exist.

plus, most trans people end up passing eventually and once they do they just drop out of the lgbt community and live life as their chosen gender. the ones that cause a ruckus online are a very small minority. if you've seen a visible trans person where you live then you have probably passed 5 more that don't stand out enough for you to notice

>>15681093
>I feel more comfortable with female body characteristics
Why?

>>15681093
Well yeah, the point gender abolitionists make is that if we just got rid of the social expectations associated with the male or female sex, you wouldn't need to identify as a man or a woman or nonbinary or whatever, no one would expect you to act or present yourself in a certain way just because you were born in a male or female body. People who want to transition would obviously still exist.

>>15674453
Is your name Reed Richards?

>>15681103
It's not a rational thing, you just feel better and less dissociated on HRT

>>15673824
All homosexual or trans people have mental disorders

>>15673824
Elliot Rodger was ahead of his time

>>15678810
There are at least a few people with similar deterministic views as you, including me, Hume defends determinism in An Enquiry on Human Understanding, Laplace was the first scientist to talk about it who got listened too, and while quantum physics are thought to be non-deterministic, something many scientists as Einstein had a hard time accepting, it's clear that the universe is deterministic at a macroscopic view, so how the world seems deterministic while is supposedly non-deterministic is something currently discussed in physics and with some proposals for a possible determinism in quantum physics that it's there but we can't still detect.

>>15680893
kek haven't mowed my shit in months. suck my nuts

>>15681103
i agree with >>15681312, being transgender is a mental illness and the best and most effective treatment we have right now is hrt.

some hormone wash my brain got in the womb gave me some androgynous/feminine brain qualities. it feels deeply and viscerally uncomfortable having a body that doesn't match up.

cis people who's bodies don't match up experience the same sort of distress as trans people, david reimer was suicidal in a female body he didn't want in the way i'm suicidal in a male body i don't want.

if i could have just taken a pill to change my brain i would do that instead of facing the social ostracism and various woes of transitioning i would have. but i can't so here i am

the very concept of art has been lost, possibly never even found in the first place
>>15681356
this is just a generic boomer maga opinion. hardly worth losing saliva over
>>15681383
how so?

>>15681816
and you know this concept? at what point was it lost?

Israel enjoys anti semitic conspiracy theories.
Israel controls the USA by creating the illusion that it controls the USA. Let me give you an example, lets say you are a young congressman with a pro palestinian ideas. You may not be taking money from jewish donors, but the conspiracy theory that there is a jew billionaire behind everything prevents you from questioning the Israel - Palestine issues.

>>15673824

I believe in synchronicity, though have not figured out almost anything about it yet

Other anon said that ordinary burials and cremations are stupid. I sort of agree with that, you should donate your body to science or get eaten by wild animals.

Other hot takes. If poor people having too many kids is way too much of a problem, pay them to get sterilized.

People should work less hours.

If you don't create art, you have no business being an art critic.

People shouldn't reproduce. Shit is pointless anyway, might as well finish it.

Fiction is overrated, if you want histories, go read history, it's way better.

>>15673824
the invention of the photograph was a terrible mistake and art will never recover

>>15682169
based and jungpilled

>>15682493
>If you don't create art, you have no business being an art critic.
retard take, which isn't surprising seeing you're an antinatalist

Eugenics is ethical and moral
Beauty is the most noble pursuit in this life
9/11 was an act of memetic warfare

>>15676603
It’s considered a strange view among people with functioning brains, transsexuals are perverts.

>>15673824
It’s possible to change very fundamental things about your psyche through sustained and deliberate effort. It is most Iraq that the mind changes to fit its new circumstances. As this, I do believe things like that you can actually change your sexual orientation, fetishes, etc.

>>15678999
Nice digits
Books that relate to your epic post?

just after a post ending in 999, there's a post ending in 000

dubtrips

>>15680298
you had me at first 3, then it read like a reddit post

>>15681312
placebo?

>>15673824

Capitalism will never fall apart. All people really want is sugar filled food and porn, both of which are provided in abundance in a capitalist system, even to the lowest classes.

>>15679729
Pain and suffering are both completely avoidable and misnomers. It may be childish to know that if the kettle is hot maybe I shouldn't touch it but it is absolutely foolish to think that by putting your entire hand on the stove you'll gain heat resistants. However you may work with the headache of looking for a scientific explanation for methods to gain such heat resistances provided you experiment on yourself because others.

I grew up without a mother and I think it would be better if all men grew up without one. They should be raised only by a strong father with emotional neglect so when they are adults they need none and women have no power over them.

>>15674160
yes

>>15673824
Romantic era music is bourgeois Firetruck siren music. BWA BWA BWA BWA. Yuck

>>15679660
very interesting. how does this affect your daily life if at all?

I believe waking life is just another dream and one day I could possibly become lucid. Also I think the people in the Gifted and Talented Education program installed a mental virus that keeps me confined in a loop of horrible habits.

>>15684628
>t. soulless bugman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjPjTrwJpiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0sRuLKgnuM

>>15674024
>kill half the population
Thats a lot of dead niggers. Im in

>>15684778
It's okay, I was also in GT. It's because separating children out from the rest of the students they'll have to socialize with outside of a couple classes makes it impossible for them to form close connections, so they don't socialize properly and use coping mechanisms to deal with the loneliness. Everyone I know who was in GT was like this, including me. Find some good friends and spend a lot of time with people, it will get better.

>>15680090
Here's a little spoiler for you
>you don't look anything like an anime girl even though you imagine that you do

>>15678986
The reason smokers get lung cancer is because of the act of quitting suddenly.

>>15673824
I believe I am the only autonomous being in existence, that holds its own original thoughts and ideas. I believe this because I truly feel independent and free of any external influence and perversion, and I see no evidence that this is true of others, since I for some reason can not see or feel what is in their minds. It annoys me to no end.

>>15678503
Tfw basically agree with all this. I feel that society has absolutely lost sight of what the telos of society should be. To an irreparable degree. The industrial revolution was a cute trick but probably not worth the cost. What was the point? More comfort? Why bother?

>>15675879
in addition to this, reincarnation is not limited to humans. if reincarnation is real, after any one of us dies we could reincarnate as a moth or a blade of grass or a dinosaur or an amoeba at any point in which any of these things exists.

that being said, the inner energy ("""soul""") of every blade of grass or stray cat may or may not have once been a human """soul"""

>>15685011
There is no worse metaphysical consequence to life than reincarnation.

I would rank it in this order.

1. Nonexistence
2. Heaven / hell
3. Universal heaven
4. Reincarnation.

Reincarnation rejects any justice for suffering here on earth and leads to a perpetual cycle of misery. If reincarnation was proven to exist, the soul object of man should be to make earth inhospitable to harbor life ever again.

>>15678995
can you elaborate on the passive and domineering voices? are you referring to self and Self?

>>15679740
for sure. the larger the world gets the smaller the individual becomes. that's why the concept of societal alienation and anomie came very soon after existentialist thought began

>>15682589
honestly based

>>15685051
whether reincarnation is true/real or not, you're right. there is no justice, there is no meaning, there is no greater solution or reason. we live and die, or exist and don't exist in cycles that are said to never end. what's the point if we're only here to suffer, die, and do it again for all eternity?

the trick here is that there is no such thing as suffering or misery, the same way that there is no such thing as happiness or joy. emotions are tricks of the ego to try to convince you (the Self) that there's nothing else out there.

and it's pretty self-centered and pessimistic to think that just because humans experience such a wide range of misery that we should make sure no life ever exists on earth again. suffering only exists in the human mind. it's a construct; it's subjective. do animals suffer? does nature inflict suffering? not really, any suffering that occurs is just a result of nature doing its thing. nature simply ~is~, but since humans became smart and developed egos, we've tricked ourselves into thinking that things are much worse than they really are in order to survive

I'm going to start a secular religion that circles around the founding fathers

>>15685051
Reincarnation is simply practice. We learn through each life, and eventually escape.

>>15685287
>enlightenment trash that gave us the society we have today

>>15685288
Archon propaganda

>>15685011
Are you randomly assigned what you're reincarnated as, or is it some sort of "judgement" on you.

Because if its random you're lucky as hell to be in the human brain, unlike what this emo faggot >>15685051 seems to think, since a lesser lifeform would just be all the fear+suffering but with far less control. You might as well disassociate from the get go. At least being human you have the luxury of associating to begin with

>>15673824
There is a universal intellect, in which we all participate in some degree.
Our lives a secondary to the life of great ideas.

>>15681179
Who?

>>15675130
based

>>15673824
All politicians are criminals and all art, philosophy, and religion is trying to express and uncover the same universal truth.

>>15680771
Sorry that I did not reply early, I had chores to run, so you are likely out of this thread by now, but here goes anyway...

>when we are talking about stuff like expected roles or patterns of behaviour associated with said sex
I understand we need a distinction, we can't go around calling everyone "citizen" and pretending we cannot tell their gender. But social roles can morph or be rejected/adopted without any hormones or surgery. A pattern of behavior can be dispensed with immediately (or after breaking a habit).

>we reserve "gender" for social features only
Then surely any trans-woman would be happy with a vast new change of their wardrobe, change in language patterns, change of name, addition of makeup and other superficial changes. No biological changes are necessary.

>but then we lose the intuitive formulation of transgender people as "people whose sex differs from their gender".
You are assuming that their sex does indeed differ. It makes more sense that it cannot, and their perception of themselves is what differs. Overall though, you are still unlinking things that are intrinsic. You are still making a GIANT jump that the two are distinct and therefore swapable. If I were to say that my race and ethnicity are different things (they are) and are unlinked, I can therefore remain white but if I am not happy being an Anglo, I can identify and even make biological changes to become Flemish. There are many things that are distinct categories that are not swapable.

>creates the expectation from others that they act and present themselves in masculine ways
This also baffles me. If a term creates societal expectations that you find oppressive, can you not reject these terms or expectations? Most trans people say no, they are SO oppressive that it is impossible to shatter the societal norms.......... so they decide to rehabilitate gender in its entirety!

Imagine if I said that I was too hot sat near the window, and you suggested I moved to the shade, so I said it was too much effort.... I'll rotate the building instead. If you can put that much effort in, to defy billions of years of biology (and expect everyone else to change THEIR societal norms) then you can escape the oppressive definitions around you.

>>15680795
>>15680869
So the concept is too strong (it is not, as the first post stated, most people don't think you are unmanly if you are somewhat mellow) so you call it a spook. I think that BLM is overblowing their oppression, does that mean that racism does not exist?