/lit/ - Literature

all i remember is nestor's slave girl making a shit version of risotto, and a few sexy times

>>15664302
Elon Musk wrote his own translation of the Odyssey? Damn, that man can do anything!

isn’t this just time-based colonialism

>>15664302
>Making these aspects of the poem visible, rather than glossing over them,
Sounds like her goal was to be more honest at presenting the text. But you don't actually care about translating Homer, you just search out problems to feed your anti-SJW anger.

WHY'D YOU HAVE TO GO AND MAKE THINGS SO COMPLICATED

>>15664302
I don't understand. How do you "make aspects of the poem visible, rather than glossing over them" without adding or substracting text? Is it just the matter of using "slave" instead of "servant" or something like that?

>>15664302
At least she's being honest with what she's trying to highlight rather than pretending as if an objective translation of such a text could exist.

>>15664745
Except she changes shit and is less honest with the text. She adds moral judgements that Homer didn't write.

>Tell me about a complicated man.
Well I'm definitely uncomfortable

Oi me modern angloid moralism blokes

>>15664302
there is literally nothing wrong with this

>>15664302
Why not write an analysis of the text rather than muddying the water by making a disingenuous translation?
Oh right, to trick people into buying it because no one really cares about your retarded milquetoast opinions.

>>15664950
>Mr. Foreigner
>scallywag

>>15664777
"Objective" translation is practically impossible in any case, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a goal to strive for.

>>15664302
There's one good review of this which points out that yes, her translating the word as slaves is truer to Homer and adds important context to the text, but so many other choices she makes are bizarre and nonsensical. The one thing that drives me nuts is that she's presenting the story of Odysseus and the Cyclops as this story of colonialism which would have been a hot take had EURIPIDES NOT DONE THAT IN 500 BC.

>>15664302
Its ok we'll always have Fagles translation.

Anyone have excerpts from her translation?

>>15665166
slave didn’t carry the same connotations then that it does now. forcing modern virtues on the ancients is unscholarly

>>15665053
Why? As long as the translator isn't passing it off as an authoritative English translation I don't see the issue. How is this different than the King James Bible?

>>15664745
I don't feel like that's what that quote means and I agree with a lot of social justice ideas (though lately the movements seem to have gotten a bit more hectic. It seems more like an injection of current interpretations into the translation; if the work involves someone owning slaves and the word slave is used then it's better to use it than the word servant, or vice versa, possibly with an explanatory footnote/endnote in the beginning that "servant" often means slave, with a brief explanation of how slavery worked in that culture, and then carrying on with the work.

She should be tried at The Hague for crimes against humanity

>>15664302
>Why do they feel the need to do this?
Why do you feel so threatened by it?
Is your wee-wee so tiny you feel emasculated by some feminist reading of Homer that will be forgotten in 10 years?

>>15665688
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/arts-and-entertainment/2018/10/11/emily-wilsons-translation-of-the-odyssey-replaces-lattimores-on-literature-humanities-syllabus/

>>15664809
There was never just one Homer and the various authors and transcribers have been changing things within the poems ever since they were first conceived. Emily Wilson is just another in a long tradition of interpreting the poems through translation.

>>15665748
So she can just make up whatever bullshit she wants. Got it

But it would be cool if they show more about how Odysseus owned slaves. Not like it matters

>>15664809
>is less honest with the text. She adds moral judgements that Homer didn't write.
Literally not true. Have you read it? Along with the other dominant translations of last century? Or are you just furiously googling shit to confirm your view?

>>15665404
This. Why /lit/ should lead the renaissance of Reeves's Homer. It's ironically more accurate from the literary standpoint than say Lattimore or Fagles because it's not working with the anachronistic limitations of meter, and, hey, we only read it for its literary value anyways (inb4 "oh no i totally know ancient greek along with accompanying dialects all but lost to true pronunciation").

>>15665973
>So she can just make up whatever bullshit she wants. Got it
Except she doesn't? It's like you fucks have never stepped foot on a college campus. She's an academic, dude, a fucking classicist at that. She has to play the game to even get to where she can do marginally controversial shit in the first place. Even if she was the foaming-at-the-mouth feminist you neckbeards thinks she is, she still has to commit to a 90% absolutely banal, canonical Homer to get it taken seriously as a translation.

>>15665044
kek what a hack

>>15665748
But also thank you for not being a blithering retard and offering one of the few non-reactionary accounts here. This is exactly how we should situate the novelty of any translation, let alone nominally based in composite authorship.

>>15666496
She turns the Phaeacians into hypocrites, when it isn't treated that way in the original text

>>15665404
The KJB is explicitly labeled differently.
This translation has the same title and author as every other copy of The Odyssey, and will appear alongside the other ones at a store.

>>15666552
Which book? I'll go grab my copies.

I can't believe that there are people on this board defending this abortion of a translation

lit has truly become pathetic

>>15664302
I read her translation. She really was more conservative than her intro made it out to be. Really just a marketing ploy which I figured was the case.

As someone who has translated professionally before, alot of her claims are bullshit. Its not possible to truly emphasize certain aspects of a text over another without altering the original.

>>15666613
You don't read nigger. Don't lie to yourself. Leave, please, for the love of God.

>>15666628
kill yourself

>>15666526
>she can only lie 10% of the time
how terrible for her

Classicists in the 21st century are all closet based, just like how classicists in the 20th century were all closet gay. If you dedicate your life studying the ancient world, you clearly know there are different value systems possible in the world

>>15666647
Right back at you faggot

>>15666667
Okay let's be super literal hurr durr schooling fucking children on obvious features of the academic marketplace is a waste of my time.

>>15665688
ya. at least im 6’5

>>15666589
Pretty sure that guy was talking about this part at the beginning of book 7.

Fagles translates it like this:
>The men here never suffer strangers gladly, have no love for hosting a man from foreign lands. All they really trust are their fast, flying ships that cross the mighty ocean.

>>15665748
Actually since Lang and Shewan scholars have been leaning the other way- that one man essentially is responsible for the two great epics, as well as some lost ones.

>>15666628
>Let me tell you about a complicated man

>>15666715
Did you ever consider her translation might actually be more accurate? Fagles fuckin' sucks.

90% of you probably have never even read the Odyssey, if this gets more normies interested in Homer which they never would've done prior then I don't see the downside to this at all. I'll never read it as I have my Fitzgerald copy, which is objectively the best.

her mistake was translating a work well known by armchair classicists on 4chan

>>15666745
Why do you want more normies interested in Homer? What a fatuous defense of a worthless translation. Let’s put candy in each copy so that normies have a reward at the end of a chapter

>>15666736
I'm not the guy that made any claims about this whole thing retard and I only have Fagles right here so I posted his translation. From what I remember other translations are more similiar to Fagles though.

>>15666718
Misleading.

>>15666731
This is actually pretty funny if you have any experience with English translations and the actual Greek. You just got filtered.

>>15666736
Alright, let's go to Fitzgerald then (don't have Lattimore on this PC). Or does he suck too, you blithering simp?

>>15666758
>I was just pretending to be retarded

>>15664302
>and with the inequities in his marriage to Penelope
by the standards of modern social justice types, Odysseus is very literally raped many times by calypso who keeps him as a slave.

>>15666758
too obvious bro, shoulda left out that second response

This isn't a SJW version of Homer censoring it for triggered moderns. It's a translation showing the raw power of the ancient world in all glory. You seem to misunderstand what's going on here.

>>15666764
No you dumbass. it has nothing to do with pretending. It has to do with words and interpretation and their subsequent tradition. Again, you don't even realize the extent to which you've outted yourself as a brainlet. Get fucking filtered you filthy pleb.

>>15666781
>outted

>>15666782
Hey, buddy, do me a huge favor and kill yourself, you bumbling faggot.

>>15666781

>>15666781
lol

>>15666787
I don't think ms Wilson would appreciate being associated with a homophobe

>>15666791
Damn anon you really mad aren't you

>>15666796
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>15666797
I’m not even the guy you’re arguing with lmao

>>15666759
>deep blue sea

That alone shows Fagles is shit.

We already had this thread, probably with the same people even, I'm tuning out of this rerun.

>>15666812
Nigger I will piss in your mother's syphilitic face

>>15666808
This changes nothing.

>>15666812
The fuck is wrong with you.

>>15666812
Fagles is literally high school textbook tier.

> The man for wisdom’s various arts renown’d,
Long exercised in woes, O Muse! resound;
Who, when his arms had wrought the destined fall
Of sacred Troy, and razed her heaven-built wall

>>15666765
And she points this out in the intro.

>>15664302
I'm not an Anglo so I can't really comment on her politics or whatever but it's worth noting that there's this trend I noticed with English translations, that each new translation is simpler than the last in the overwhelming majority of the cases. There was a thread about Huysmans' Against the Grain a couple months ago and some anon linked a picture comparing the same excerpt in different translations, the difference in the complexity of the first and the most recent translation was very noticeable. It's even weirder considering that unlike Homer, Huysmans is really into using ornate and baroque language to paint a decadent atmosphere, something which you wouldn't get at all if you read the newest translation.

>>15664302
This translation is much more comfy than the others.

>>15666940
French is so simple though, just read it in the original if you care that much. Homeric Greek is a lot less accessible.

>>15666950
Hmm, as much as I like the Wilson translation, this guy may have a point. It's hard to justify the "although they themselves like to travel to foreign lands" from the text. It's implied in the text, sure, but there's no reason to explicitly have to state that to somebody who's reading Homer. Can anyone show where that second part of the sentence came from in the original Greek?

OD.7.30 ἀλλ' [12ἴθι [13σιγῇ12] τοῖον,13] [14ἐγὼ δ' [15ὁδὸν ἡγεμονεύσω,14]15]
OD.7.30 But go in total silence, and I'll lead the way,

OD.7.31 μηδέ τιν' ἀνθρώπων προτιόσσεο μηδ' ἐρέεινε.
OD.7.31 and neither look at nor question any person,

OD.7.32 οὐ γὰρ ξείνους οἵ γε μάλ' ἀνθρώπους ἀνέχονται
OD.7.32 for they do not gladly suffer stranger men

OD.7.33 οὐδ' ἀγαπαζόμενοι φιλέουσ' ὅς κ' ἄλλοθεν ἔλθῃ.
OD.7.33 nor hospitably welcome one who comes from elsewhere.

>>15666940
I agree with this. I'm sure editors tell their translators to dumb it down for zoomers or other social media addicts.

>>15664723

wow it is

>>15664302
imagine her in minecraft

>>15667030
Or maybe there's no just point in making the prose excessively baroque.

>>15666983
It’s in corroboration with how other parts of both the Iliad and the odyssey describes the Phoenicians as pirates and bandits.

>>15667048
sure, if you want to make the original author accessible to the general reader

>>15667054
There were no Phoenicians in Homer.

>>15667070
Maybe the original author wasn't actually writing in an asspained style? Let us compare this Huysmans.

>>15667070
Who do you think sat around listening to poems back when this stuff was being performed? Even the elite back then probably had like 90 IQs.

>>15667106
Do you know literally nothing of Huysmans to make this moronic statement?

>>15667119
Well you failed to disclose which translation you were whining about. Link it up, holmes.

>>15664723
>>15667038
Umm, sweatie Greece is in Europe.

>>15667146
Am >>15666940
I've tried to look the picture up in the archives but to no avail. It's definitely in there somewhere.

>>15664302
ROBERT FAGLES STILL IS NUMBER 1

Moral superiority is a luxury. When someone is born in an environment where they have literally never even met someone who had to go without without the shelter and safeguards of modern civilization, they have a hard time believing there is any meaningful difference between the context of their daily moral choices and the moral choices of someone who was born into a world without modern luxuries, where mercy isn't cheap and mistakes are fatal. Confident in their untested moral fortitude, they come to believe that it is their responsibility to pass judgement on these less fortunate generations. They see no reason why Odysseus shouldn't feel bad about owning slaves. They have no doubt that there's something deeply wrong with Penelope not moving to Seattle to "find herself" once people start questioning her husband's delay. Anytime they encounter something inconsistent with whatever the law of the land happens to be this week under the protective dome of modern life, they react to it as they would now, flagging it for criticism and distancing themselves from it as much as possible. They do this partially to assure themselves that their sense of moral superiority is at least somewhat founded, partially because they are cowards seeking easy ways to prove themselves to the obsessive cult of moral purity, passing loud and visible judgement on writers too dead to defend themselves, circumstances too alien to offend anyone, and practices too antiquated to be regarded with nuance.

>>15665748
>>15666758
The entire concept that "Homer" is multiple people comes from a handful of 19th century academics saying "It doesn't seem realistic to me that one single person could have written the whole thing, and there's some continuity errors, so it must really be multiple people and Homer is just a compiler" even though a wealth of historic evidence and discussions of both text refer to Homer as a single person and never throw it into doubt that it's a single person who wrote the entire work.

As far as I'm aware there is zip physical or literary evidence from the Greeks that suggests Homer was simply a compiler or stole all of the works.

>>15666511
>poetic auditory qualities are not literary value

>>15665166
Yeah that review’s good. Here’s the link
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/homer/the-odyssey-wilson/

>>15667319
Oops, that wasn’t the review I was thinking of. DUnno where the one I remember reading is lol

>>15667319
>>15667363
OK I think this is the review I was thinking of. There is a retarded error after she quotes several translations a few paragraphs in which means the entire rest of the article is formatted as a quote
https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2018/2018.10.58/

>>15666613
I've noticed this, too. Every time we have this thread there's more and more faggots who support this crazy bitch. /lit/ is no better than r/books at this point

>>15666830
If Fagles is high school tier then Wilson must be kindergarten-for-special-needs tier.

>>15667372
Sorry again, THIS is the review I was thinking of
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/homer-for-scalawags-emily-wilsons-odyssey/

>>15666940
Every area is getting dumbed down for easier consumption. Also, I think it was me who shared that Huysmans comparison lol

>>15667399
Or maybe it’s not. I don’t fuckin know or care

>>15666950
>>15666983

>Mr.Stranger
What the fuck

>>15667426
The Very fact this and “play time is over!” Is in this transition automatically disqualifies any defenses of this translation

>>15667265
Underrated.

>>15667265
These people will never understand until reality hits them in the face. Thats why I hope for more violence in America, atleast for the right people.

>>15667265
this guy can write

>>15667265
Slavery was only ever practiced by people with far more luxuries than others. What a retarded post.

>>15667538
I think he has a point. Without labor from slavery a society could ultimately end up more vulnerable to being conquered and enslaved by some less-enlightened society.

>>15667538
absolutely false, it was practiced largely as mercy to those who would otherwise have been killed in war

>>15665748
are you jewish?

>>15664302
>tfw we're still going on about this vapid cunt
Has nobody fucking read anything in 4 years?

>>15667297
I think modern consensus leans towards the Iliad and the Odyssey both being single-authored works, but by two different authors.

>>15667727
I've read Fitzgerald's translation.

>>15665171
Better yet: Richmond Lattimore.

>>15667297
Same fucking kind of people will tell you Crassus never fought Spartacus and Ragnar Lothbrok never existed.

>>15667158
Um, have you ever looked at a map?

>>15667265
Lol is that frog going super saiyan?

>>15664302
Fagles is right
>flute-girl = whore

>>15664302
to me this sounds like a translator addressing the influence over a work openly instead of pretending that they are just letting others read a text as if it were the original. bias and personal influence is inherent to translation, so seeing this approach is refreshing tbqh

>>15667790
There wouldn't be a problem if it were advertised as such on the book itself.

There is no translator that doesn't use the work being translated as nothing but a pedestal to make their talentless hack selves more wellknown. This is why you should be learning japanese.

>>15667810
hard to market "you'll never really read Homer because nothing can ever be translated perfectly, so here's someones best approximation of how it might have been written in English"

>>15667538
You missed the point entirely.

Why the insistence on using what was originally an ethnonym. Is anyone intelligent enough to have a genuine interest in reading classical literature, that stupid to wonder whether servants are forced or hired labor? I think this most derogatory misappropriation of an entire linguistic group's identity has gone on for long enough, and should be treated as the real social injustice issue deserving attention; but perhaps some of these scholars really have been born with silver spoons and been attended to by servants, that they feel the term would actually be a cause for misinterpretation.

>>15664745
But that's not the case at all, because previous translators never gave a fuck about slaves or inequity, so whatever slavery and inequity were in the original text were also translated and represented fairly in the translated versions of the text.
Previously, most translators attempted the task with the idea of making a faithful and linguistically equivalent translation. She is approaching the task with a pre-set ideology which makes her translation less effective

>>15664302
The thief comes only to kill and steal and destroy. You know how it is.

>>15667837
All the other translations are consistent. Hers isn't. I expected Homer when I bought it. Had no fucking idea who she was when I bought it off the shelf. Fucking sucks having her next to Fagles on my shelf. Shame. Literally just put on the book: "This is a retelling of the Odyssey" instead of bullshitting and calling it a translation.

>>15666580
The King James Bible is labeled by its translation title, like all versions of the Bible. This version of the Odyssey is labeled by the translator right on the front. What is the significant difference here?

>>15665503
I feel the difference is only relivent in the way she is talking about if someone really doesnt have perspective on the english language. There is a spectrum of meaning in language and servent may be more apropriate one time and slave another. Source texts also have this map of meaning as well.

>>15664745
No. What she means by not glossing over was that earlier translations merely translated the bigoted big meanie sections as they were without any need to highlight them as problematic and that she crams her ideology down peoples throats.

>>15667048
>no point
THERE IS NO POINT IN ANYTHING, IT'S COOLER IF IT'S BAROQUE ANON, IT'S COOLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Opinions on Samuel Butler translation?

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/the-classics-scholar-redefining-what-twitter-can-do

i remember reading an article months ago by Emily where she attempts to justify why she doesn't only translate the Odyssey but also tries to put a modern, progressive spin on it but i can't find the article in my history. within the first paragraph of the article she mentions Trump and the 'anti foreigner' sentiment in america and how it inspired her to purposefully change the part about the cyclops. by default her translation cannot truly be a translation if she purposefully adds her own modern, progressive spin on the story that was not intended by Homer himself

>read RotK
>military commanders of totalitarian warlords are called heroes for sending hundreds of thousands of starving peasants to their horrific deaths
>read Odyssey
>SLAVES MADE ME GROSSED OUT :((((
White privilege.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/20/opinions/the-odyssey-emily-wilson-reading-to-my-son-tess-taylor/index.html

>>15668101
>the KJV Bible is not a translation because it has a political spin and numerous inaccuracies

>>15668164
if altered on purpose it becomes not only a translation but someone else work and should be discarded

>>15668167
>the most influential text in western literature should be discarded because it was a shit translation with an agenda

>>15668200
yes

jej i honestly didn't think things were at the point where the odyssey was getting canceled yet but i guess not

>>15668200
>the most influential text in western literature
The Bible yes, not the KJV.

>>15668256
>t. reddit

board tourist here, read Wilson's explanation for shit like "Playtime is over!":

>She also uses plain language. “The notion that Homeric epic must be rendered in grand, ornate, rhetorically elevated English has been with us since the time of Alexander Pope,” Wilson explains. She adds that her goal “was not to make Homer sound ‘primitive,’ but to mark the fact that stylistic pomposity is entirely un-Homeric.”

This seems legit.

>>15667158
Greece was under colonial occupation by turks for 350 years. Millions of eastern european whites were taken into slavery by turks and their tatar allies. I know your post is a shitty troll, good job.

>>15668316
It just sounds fucking silly and takes you out of the flow. Same with
>Mr. Foreigner
it's like having an ad for viagra in it

>>15664302
anons might like to know that she is one of the judges of this year's booker prize

>>15664302
>Italy had a woman translating the Iliad and 1950 and the Odyssey in 1963 and most students have been using those translations ever since
Why is the anglosphere so idiotic? Why do you have to make a big deal about something that has been done with no fanfare half a century ago in one of the most mysoginistic countries in the western world?

>https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Calzecchi_Onesti

>>15666983
I don't see any "although they themselves like to travel to foreign land" at all there

>>15664745

>>15664302
Maybe progressive sluts shouldn't read Homer then? Penelope is the very embodiment of a 'good woman,' loyal, true, and that's why she gets a happy ending.

>>15664696
Underrated
>>15664302
>uncomfortable
First world problems.

>>15664302

>>15664302
>reading about a heavily mythologized event that occurred on the other side of several dark ages causes me to feel anxiety over the fact that the people involved were different than me
>this is how I know I'm enlightened
fucking dropped lol

>Why do they feel the need to do this?
woman

>>15668672
>freedom = conservative values
Why do right-wingers do this? If I want to dress as an anime girl AND worship nazi imagery, what's wrong with that?

>>15664302

YIU UCKING BITCH WHORE, YOU SHITTING FUCK, KILL YOUR FUCKING SELF YOU TRAVESTY OF A HUMAN BEING YOY THINK YOY CAN JUST FUCK WITH HISTORICAL TEXTS AND MAKE THEM ALL FUCKING COSY AND NICE AND FEMINIST, WELL YOU CAN TAKE YOUR FESTERING PILE OF REVISIONISM AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR FRIGID ARSEHOLE AND DIE OF FUCKING SEPSIS YOU DUMB FUCKING CUNT WHORE FUCK OFF YOU COW

>>15668164
yes, thek jv is a bad translation of the bible

>>15664302
reminder that it doesn't matter whether or not the translation was written by a woman or a man, pre-modern or modern, reading Homer in translation is a grave offense

>>15666940
it probably has a lot to do with the popularity of the hemingway-esque style of fiction in the 20th century. plain speech was closer to the language of the street than the ornate forms of the end of the 19th century. and it makes to sense to write a consciously archaic translation of a work for which there are already numerous extant antique translations that do the job better

>>15667265
> They do this partially to assure themselves that their sense of moral superiority is at least somewhat founded, partially because they are cowards seeking easy ways to prove themselves to the obsessive cult of moral purity, passing loud and visible judgement on writers too dead to defend themselves, circumstances too alien to offend anyone, and practices too antiquated to be regarded with nuance.
Good shit

>>15668316
Fagles is pretty straightforward

>>15664302
A translation is an interpretation of a text. Some translations are very formal and accurate, and others take more liberties. So she rendered the Odyssey through a modern lens. Do you have any actual critiques of her work or what?

>>15670892
we already BTFO her in previous threads.
her work doesn't work either as a trasnslation and it doesn't work as a text in its own right

>>15670924
>we
Kek, your ebin internet army? At least link the thread you faggot.
>her work doesn't work either as a trasnslation and it doesn't work as a text in its own right
Why not? I've seen many reviews, none of them say the work is very egregious, even though she has some awkward phrasing at the start.

>>15670961
>I've seen many reviews
Kek, your ebin internet army? At least link the reviews you faggot.

>>15670961
>Why not? I've seen many reviews, none of them say the work is very egregious, even though she has some awkward phrasing at the start.
You trust reviewers and critics in 2020? They're just as pozzed as she is. Compare Emily Wilson's shitty Odyssey to Caroline Alexander's Iliad and you can see why Wilson sucks to bad. Alexander is a competent transaltor unlike Wilson yet the media and the critics didn't jerk off about her, and why? Because her translation is actually loyal and not a front for shitty, dumbed down faux-progressive propaganda.

>>15664302
>>15664723
Basically, the problem is she doesn't understand the society and culture depicted at all, its terms, and so easily misinterprets it by using her terms. Honestly why can't these people just learn how to understand another person, learn cultural relativism. Why are leftists the worst in this regard? How is it that a progressive of today is incapable of any sort of relativism, or even merely being somewhat selfaware, while a late middle ages, fairly traditional man is capable of plenty?

>In his letter to Manuel I of Portugal, Pêro Vaz de Caminha gives what is considered by many today as being one of the most accurate accounts of what Brazil used to look like in 1500.
>They are brown skinned, of a quite reddish complexion, with handsome faces and noses, nicely shaped. They go about naked, without any type of covering. They do not bother to cover their bodies, and show their private parts as readily as they show their faces. In this matter they are of great innocence.
>... they are well groomed and very clean. And in that aspect, I am convinced they are like birds, or mountain animals, to whom the air gives better feathers and hair than those of their domesticated counterparts, because their bodies are as clean and as plump and as beautiful as could be!
>They only eat this yam (referring to manioc, then unknown to the Europeans), which is very plentiful here, and those seeds and fruits that the earth and the trees give of themselves. Nevertheless, they are sturdier, and sleeker than we are despite all the wheat and legumes we eat.

>Walking among them there were three or four women, young and gentle, with their hair very black and very long, loose to their backs; their private parts, so prominent and so neat, and so clean of their hairs that they did not get ashamed when we looked at them.
>One of those young women had the whole body painted from bottom to top with that tincture, and she was so well-shaped and so rounded, and her private parts so graceful that many women of our land, if they had seen her features, would feel embarrassed for not having theirs look like hers.

>>15664745
The goal is to make neurotic and closeminded judgements, and misrepresentation, based on cultural prejudice.

>>15664696
kek

>>15669890
Where do I find latin original?

can any g*rmanoid tell me if I should still get the german translation of Odyssee by Voß or a newer, more "accurate" and understandable translation instead?

>>15671455
Because our societies are structured through categorization and rationalization, anything deviating from this is seen as something to be disciplined, we are all docile bodies open to social control of the state.

>>15671455
I think she does understand the culture. She just doesn't care because it benifits her more to approach it with presentism like a previous anon suggested.

>>15672133
It's Homeric Greek, mate.

>/lit/ suddenly recommends the fresh modernized take on the cornerstone of western literature as an accessible first step in “starting with the greeks”

>>15672986
when does /lit/ ever recommend "accessible" aka dumbed down versions of classics?

>>15672608
Yeah sure, you do you, but I am asking about original. You know like that other stuff with Aeneas and founding of Rome. I mean, since Trojans spoke latin and greeks understood them the original book too had to be in latin right? Unless we are talking about some translation.

>>15672986
She looks better as a man

>>15668316
Its wrong to cater to the ignorant.

>>15672986
Not really. We have no problem with Caroline Alexander's translation of the Iliad and she's a woman.

>>15668316
Fagles is as clear as day.

>>15668711
It also seems to be saying freedom = being a wage slave

>>15672395
Voß is retarded. Every single English translation that is mentioned here (Fitzgerald, Lattimore, Fagles) is easier to understand and more accurate, he's just been traditionally kept as the standard because of no copyright. Kurt Steinmann's translation is supposed to be good (Fischer), but only if you don't want to read the Ilias because that one costs 100€.

>>15673434
also, if you still want to get Voß, don't be fooled by the fancy Anaconda leather bound edition. The formating is absolute GARBAGE, the verses don't even fit the page so they just added words to the next line with a "]"

>>15673471
>buying the Anaconda version for any book ever
easiest way to spot a pseud

>>15673434
>>15673471
yeah I've heard about the Steinmann translation, but that's way out of my price range. I was hoping that there could be another translation worth considering, but I think I will just stick to the english ones which are already well established

>>15666526
How out of touch are you? You think she has to tiptoe around at meetings? She’s probably hailed as a hero. Modern “Classicists” eat the kind of shit Wilson pumps out with enthusiasm. She’s a dishonest hack trying to grift off stupid zoomers and fashionable contemporary culture.