/lit/ - Literature

Nazis and fascists are left wing too.

>>15659974
>things I don't like are left wing

>>15659960
Holy fuck. I don’t have time to explain this rn so I’ll leave you with this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFvG4RpwJI&t=2285s

Dumbass.

>>15659960
Why don't you go and ask an ex-libertarian fascist instead of stirring in your echochamber and musing about other people's motivations?

Just because you make an observation doesn't mean it's not nonsensical bullshit

Libertarians whole spiel is pretty much ‘you don’t tell me what to do’
Which makes organizing difficult

>>15659985
>>15659974
I meant to reply to you

>>15659979
I'm a fascist.

>>15659974
fpbp

>>15659989
Because you guys are never honest.

>>15659999
I willed to get digits, and digits I got.

>>15660002
>I know my political enemies better than they know themselves
the actual state of lefties

>>15660007
>I know my political enemies better than they know themselves

Unironically yes. I would bet money you identified as either a “classical liberal” or a libertarian before you became a paleo-traditionalist ethno-identitarian or whatever nazis are calling themselves these days.

>>15660021
I was never a libertarian, and I'm not a fascist now. I was an ML, but since becoming religious, I adopted socially conservative views (not racism) and more moderate economic views.

>>15659960
>he is an anti-sjw classical liberal in 2015-2016
>he is an alt-righter in 2017-2018
>he is a socialist in 2019-2020
why is this?

>>15659985
That 3 arrows guy is a moron

>>15660076
Coincidentally, that's what the big youtubers were pushing for at those times.

>>15660076
I think 2019-2020 is a big ??? All of these meme ideologies are always rooted in resentment, that's the only common denominator, maybe the socialist phase is a mellowing out

>>15660076
This is basically how it went down for me. As embarrassing as it is to say what changed me was seeing right-wing arguments disected and demolished by breadtubers.

>>15660021
I was a nazi before i was a libertarian

>>15660076
I feel like I created this timeline by voting for Trump in 2016 and I regret it every single day

>>15660149
Functionally, there’s not much of a difference.

>>15660076
Trees in the wind like baked alaska
These kinds of people have no opinions, they just chase social media numbers. After jack and friends started tinkering with the numbers ecelebs had to come back around.

Most of these people's involvement with politcal thought is posting on forums snd watching YouTube videos. They are secondaries through and through

>>15660150
>he didnt vote for Trump ironically

>>15659974
the left wing is anti-capitalist and fascism is the most capitalist ideology. The nazis were willing to massacre 10 million people and drag the world into the most destructive conflict it had ever seen in order to save capitalism, not even america is that bad.

>>15660165
Functionally your radical pipeline hypothesis is retarded, and is basically a regurgitation of five year old /pol/ infographics used to convert lolberts.

>>15660181
It only took the whole capitalistic world to crush it quickly

>>15660184
It’s literally true though. This is a well documented a well studied phenomena. Some disenfranchised male clicks on a Joe Rogan video, which leads to a Ben Shapiro video, which leads to a Gavin McInnes video, which leads to a Jared Taylor video, which leads to a William Luther Pierce video. This is something alt-right figureheads acknowledge and openly brag about. You’re just upset because your cover’s been blown.

>>15660221
so what? capitalist entities can have conflicts with one another

>>15660227
D.A.R.E. to stay off racism

>>15659960
Libertarianism and national socialism has nothing in common lmao.
These people who get "converted by the pipeline" aren't changing their political ideologies but changing the group of people they follow with which happens to have different political ideologies.

Actual libertarians don't "convert" to national socialism. Those that do weren't libertarians in the first place, just happened to identify themselves as one cause that what their favourite YouTuber was rambling on about.

On the side, I see this way more often now with "political standoffs" being so popular on platforms like Twitch and YouTube that it's literally become a sport and the viewers are all cringe sports fans who jump the wagon whenever their favourite team gets "beaten" by another "team" cause obviously if their team can win a debate against my team then their political ideology has to be better right?

It's all so cringe that this is permeating into actual politics like it was cute when it was just /pol/tards making threads about Trump but after 2016 everyone's realised that it's so easy to make money off shilling political ideologies to bumbling retarded man-children who have never read more than ten political theory books in their entire life that everything is so watered down and murky as fuck no one knows what terms even mean anymore and everything just means what's the most convenient at the time it's so cancer I fucking hate polititubers and streamers and literally every single person who mentions a single fucking word about politics on twitter the world would be better off it they all had their fingers amputated and lips surgically shut permanently so they can't spread such cancerous forms of dialogue into everyday politics.

Political identities are just consumerism. Nobody "is" their ideas or factionalized beliefs. Nobody here could show by their life and their actions that they "are" a libertarian or "are" socially liberal but economically conservative". Bunch of larpers, every one of you.

>>15659960
I’m natsoc and I’ve never really noticed much “right wing infighting”. Can you provide some examples?

>>15659974
they are all part of the same small and annoying social problem

>>15660227
Milo is 100% a pedo, and I'm fairly sure that Sargon is too. Richard Spencer takes far too much interest in nubile boys. There isn't anything of interest in any of their writing, Spencer likes to LARP as an historian and totally fails at any kind of insight, so the only reason to take an interest is the pedo ring side.

>>15660139
I'm sure if you found and watched a well-written video series with lots of good memes on why fundamentalist Islam is the way to go you'd convert to that, too. It seems to be a cycle for the past decade, at least. I suspect a lot of people could trace it back to new atheism, then libertarianism, followed by classical liberalism and fascism. It's been pretty dismaying watching these people come and go, and as someone who has been right wing for much longer I'll admit it's hard not to go along with such trends, especially as things picked up a lot of steam halfway through the decade.

>>15659960
There's a pipeline that can be generalized out of fringe ideologies of any sort but to explain I'll have to establish the factors that're common to them first:
>Mostly western persons, or in the case that the person isn't western, they're still relatively well-off
>Slightly outside the social norm, tends to have little to no strong ties to family and local community
>Person might be shy and/or badly socialized
>Often as a result active online, often twitter + either tumblr or any of the -chans

Then the pipeline to fringe:
>Start out fairly normal
>Slightly ostracized in childhood
>Naturally distanced from class, though might have a few close friends growing up
>Get into online culture at some point, find like-minded people
>Fall away even more from local environment
>As you grow up, start to see subtle "issues" in how you were treated growing up, feel no sense of connection with locals anymore. Be off-beat in comparison to the rest.
>"I wonder why this is?"
>If tumblr at this point: Trans / NB community, pro-anorexia, identitarianism, feminism and minority rights. Anarchism and left-wing ideologies go hand-in-hand with these. Externalize personal insecurities as fundamental flaws with society, paranoia. Guaranteed sense of community that fits your "new-found identity", which really is just a feel-good panacea that precludes you from going anywhere else.
>If -chan: Guaranteed sense of community through banter and da joose and faggotry etc. Pipeline into genuine radical ideology if you're retarded enough, as with the leftist.
>Key common factors: Communities centered around a common purpose and explanation for whatever you felt was wrong with your existence becomes crystallized as who you are.
You label yourself this- and that-, and remain in a safe-zone where your life and the society around you is clearly defined in terms you feel good about, and you don't ever think of leaving because the consequences of doing so upends your entire worldview.

>>15660139
What on earth is breadtube and how did it demolish your ideology

>>15660150
Although still voting for Trump again.

>>15661774
Breadtube core to me consists of ppl like Contrapoints, Cuck Philosophy, Philosophy Tube. The entire point of breadtube is to act as a "gotcha" for the supposed alt-right. They're generally centered on the whole anti-fascist shtick and provide a generally libcom viewpoint and left-leaning explanations for concurrent societal issues. Some of it is interesting, but I could never bring myself to watch more than a few videos since the takes they present tend to repeat. If you've watched a fair bit I'm sure you could extrapolate the general arguments presented in one of PhilTube's vids just based on the title, philosophical specifics notwithstanding.

>>15660966
Holy fuckin based

>>15660181
>to save capitalism

>>15660966
Baste

>>15659960
>2015-16
fuck sjws
>2017-18
fuck niggers
>2019-20
fuck jews
national bolshevism unifies all three

>>15659960
>There’s no common route where anarchists become tankies,
Anarchists do apologize for dictatorships all the time, ffs

>>15661973
Anarchism is an incoherent meme ideology that would collapse immediately in a real world context.
Say what you want about Stalinism - at least it was stable.

>>15661987
Anarchism might be a meme ideology but it's basically all that is considered good in modern standards. That is why it survives nowadays.

>>15659960
At some point libertarians figure out their ideology only works in homogenous high trust societies in the first place.

>>15662081
Left wing libertarians as well, that is when the purges begin

>>15659960
>>15660227
The explanation for this "pipeline" is simple.

The mainstream PC narrative is anti-libertarian/conservative/fascist etc. So when someone starts to question things he'll first stumble on the most mainstream talking points (because they're actually available and he understands them) and progress from there.

Also, all of this is kinda stupid. You shouldn't be attached to a label/group so much, besides just for doing practical stuff.

>>15660076
getting cucked by the shit economy and realizing hating niggers is a meaningless exercise when you cant afford a roof over your head

>>15660007
If you take even a slightly critical look at reactionaries on 4chan you realize their all suburbanite social rejects who thought that people hating them in high school was proof they were secretly superior. Show me a "redpilled" e-fascist and ill show you a steam account and a personality disorder.

>>15662111
This

>>15662111
Anyone who rages online about politics is usually a social reject, regardless of what ideology they represent.

>>15662106
Realising that he reason the economy is so fucked up is because of the parasites sucking up all of our resources...

>>15659960
This happens with every subculture.
>guy with noodle arms wants to get big
>hops on a bro-split
>figures out SS is the best
>discovers meme diets like keto, fasting, carnivore, GOMAD
>learns about steroids
>takes steroids
Engaging with a set of ideas will lead you to the logical extreme of those ideas, just like engaging in an artform will lead you to more obscure art, simply because it's more obscure.
>guy likes movies
>stumbles upon the IMDB top 200
>is stuck there for a while before moving onto more arthouse directors
>maybe dabbles in foreign cinema
>mainstream Hollywood movies are stale and boring now
You will have people who get stuck on each successive step (not all gymbros take roids, not all film enthusiasts exclusively watch German silent movies) but you will always have people who go to the core.

>>15662111
>Show me a "redpilled" e-fascist and ill show you a steam account
Kek
>>15662132
True

Not to mention the cost of Foreign Nationals who are living in our country illegally. They need to go back to their own countries, they really do. More and more people are realising this, and despite he autistic screeching of the MSM, this sentiment is growing steadily. The culture is swinging hard right, simply out of self defence and survival. We are simply not wealthy enough to take care of our own citizens, much less millions of foreigners.

>>15662180
And stop with the foreign aid bullshit too

>>15662180
It's almost a guarantee they produce more value via slave labor than they consume. American suburbanites need to realize that being anti-immigrant is biting the hand that feeds them. Most arent intelligent enough to realize that their lifestyle of creature comforts and fast food is dependent on migrant slave labor and plundering the third world. Their oligarchs do, which is why they allow the migrants to stay as long as they don't unionize.

>>15662142
>reframing class war as a race war.
Fuck off liberal

>>15662310
>the economy is never affected by any other factors than its own closed loops
Marxist cope. The validity of the argument you're trying to refute doesn't matter, "class warfare" existing for itself is arguably a flawed premise to begin with.

>>15662279
Ok so kick them out and abolish minimum wage laws

>>15662111
> steam account and a personality disorder.
Sounds like projection, bucko

>>15659960
rightists have more testosterone and less agreeableness. so it's somewhat to be expected.

>>15662279
>consume
>creature comforts
>fast food
Fuck off with all that

>>15662310
>liberal

>>15662438
I really think this is the endgame. Your political views are just a function of your hormone levels and only very minimally influenced by thinking about them.

False. There is a leftist pipeline, and it is far more vicious than the rightist pipeline.

Consider: what causes a rightist to move further right? More often than not, it is associating with people who have different or better arguments. This can go both ways, however, from fascism to libertarianism, or vice versa.

What causes a leftist to move further left? In modern progressivism, it is a moral high ground. Leftism has a unified moral code which is impossible to fully realize at any time, since it is deconstructive at its core. Thus creates an eternal leftward push.

This highlights the flaws in the left/right dichotomy. The right is composed of distinct points of ideology, whereas the left is a continuum. There is no logical connection between "everyone should be free" and "gas the jews", but there is a logical connection between "blacks deserve rights" and "whites are evil".

>>15660072
racism isn't a "socially conservative view"

>>15659960
t. former libertarian, converted to fascism
libertarianism is very good as an introduction to right wing thought but they're basically leftoids in spirit, degenerate and rotten to the core. the economic part of libertarianism is pretty solid but what they don't get is that no one is going to respect their """axioms""" if they fail to deliver the goods to the masses. we need to start with the nation, not with the community of atomised individuals, and work together in order to achieve a more flat distribution of income not for the sake of it but to endow every white family with basic resources so they may flourish. the ideal mix is libertarian market policy + social democratic redistributive policies (yes, I know you cannot divorce distribution from the functioning of the market but in practice we have to agree on something in between the two extremes, we shouldn't fetishize the market) + conservative cultural policy and ideology. what converted me was your standard set of revolutionary conservative literature - Schmitt, Voegelin, Strauss (although he was not strictly a conservative, but still insightful), Nietzsche, Junger, Spengler, Heidegger, Dugin, Mishima, Evola (didn't like him), add to that some fascist theory from Gentile, Mussolini and Mosley. at some point all libertarians start to wonder "why the fuck are my policies not implemented when they're so logical and good?". the answer - nobody gives two fucks about logic, logic won't feed the starving, won't help the poor, won't heal the sick. you need to give the people something in exchange for your economic policies, that would be sensible redistribution and sense of belonging to the nation. if you're a libertarian and you want a painless transition from libertarianism to more realistic forms of politics read two classics of Austrian school - von Wieser and Hayek - as well as Pareto. they were not dogmatic in their free market apologetics, Wieser was pretty much a protofascist (his Law of Power is basically Nietzsche projected onto the social plane), Pareto was a huge influence on Mussolini and Hayek - despite his reservations - was pretty much a classical conservative.

>>15660139
>he made a 360 degree turn on his political views because of some pseuds making videoessays for midwit audience
you need to go back

>>15659960
Intellectual progression should be a series of unfoldings (Entfaltungen) in which concepts are deepened, detailed, extrapolated, both abstracted and concretised, and can be described with added precision, clarity, and concision.

Intellectual development taking place by 'conversion' suggests witless dupes being tricked into compliance via various psychological tricks. Intellectual development via linear movement (in this example: to the 'right') suggests a false model in which the the author is attempting a hidden 'guilt by association.'

>>15662633
you're going to need enough proof to create a quorum among both biologists and political scientists before I even halfway believe this.
but just for fun, let's take it as a given.
this would mean there is no "correct" or "better" political idea. people are locked into a variety of ideas because they're "born that way".
so this would mean accepting people's thoughts can be diametrically opposed to yours and they're not evil or destructive or whatever.
so then what does a successful, working political system that fairly represents the entire constituency even look like? there can be no more "wrong side of history" nor "free helicopter rides." there's just "I exist as a human, my politics are correct, but so are yours."
how to fairly govern?

>>15663073
Child molestor James Mason's acolytes have probably killed more of their own ranks than anyone else.

>>15663120
>how to fairly govern?
Fairly implies an "ought" of course, but the reality "is" that government is going, has gone, and will go as it always has: a tiny (genetic) elite ruling over the vast masses, either by consent ("democracy") or by boot (dictatorship) or by aristocracy/monarchy (which is just a synonym for genetic elite).

>>15662279
Of course, we're not seeing any negative impact on the ballooning labor market and wage stagnation. Being pro-immigration via your viewpoint of consumption is pure pro-corporatism.

>>15663133
That's because the entire "Neo-Nazi" movement is a CIA PSYOP.

>>15659960
Push a man far enough and he becomes radicalized. At the core of all these ideologies is the principle of having others fuck off. Take this a example: Originally I want you to fuck off and leave me alone, so I also fuck off and leave you alone. You persist. I now have employ harsher measures to get you to fuck off. Maybe I group myself with others who think the same, or similarly, rather than those who think like you. You take offense to this, because you are an egoist, and continue to persist, even though this could all have been avoided if you simply fucked off in the first place. Eventually I am forced to employ radical and unsightly tactics to get you to fuck off. And if you continue to insist on involving yourself in someone's affairs - who has no desire to have you interfere - you will eventually be met with a reaction that will result in you fucking off permanently.

>>15659960
I was quite far left until I became religious

>>15663156
well, ok, but you seem to be implying that the "genetic elites" are elite because they were born into the "correct" political spectrum.
so, in other words, you're an authoritarian and you consider that might makes right.
talk about circular logic.

>>15663221
No, I believe human beings are biological creatures vying for power and that in this struggle the best will come out on top, regardless of the dominant framework of the times. In every age in history there was a tiny minority ruling over the masses
>greco-roman society was 2% freeman and 98% slave
>feudal society much the same, just other vocabulary (lord and serf)
>industrial society, yet again 2% rich capitalist and 98% proletariat
>postindustrial society, still 2% rich capitalists but now mixed in with government cronyism
But this is a huge digression, what I meant with my first post was simply that I believe high T men will be more attracted to rightwing policies not because they're inherently more true or just, but simply because their genetic makeup selects the best ideas for their own genetic propagation; in other words, a physically strong, competitive, combative, ambitious person (high T) will tend towards an individualistic society because that society will allow him the best chances to climb up the hierarchy. Weak, conflict-avoidant, timid bodies (low T) will prefer an equalized society in which everyone gets free stuff, because that's the only environment in which he'll get a shot at surviving and procreating. He would perish in the high-T, high conflict society, so his brain tricks him into prefering more egalitarian policies

>>15659960

There are no actual modern nazis except for larp

>>15663280
By the way, this is a logical extrapolation from Schopenhauer's ideas on Will versus Reasons, just with the added knowledge we have on evolution and hormones. Schopenhauer believed in the primacy of the Will over Reason, i.e., that man is create of (irrational) Will first, and Reason second. This is echoed in psychological theories of rationalization: your brain makes you believe something first, and only afterwards do you come up with a rational, reasonable explanation for your beliefs/behaviors

>>15663280
Does contemporary Westerino society select for these high testosterone men you love so much? Strong people are not innately individualistic; a group of weaker people could easily overthrow them since they are outnumbered. In order to dominate, the strong require the collectivized consent of the weak not to rebel. There is no pure individualistic society yielded by high-T overchads. They would be required to compact together, at minimum as chads, to protect against that 98%. But in this case, the biggest threat to chad is now other chads. This is highly unstable, it is an endless source of conflict if every chad now has to watch his back for a revolt of his fellow chads. In reality what happens is the chads assemble constellations of virgins to orbit their person and shield them from other chad-virgin assemblages. The individual/collective distinction is meaningless applied to society because any society is a chad-virgin orbit

>>15660076
Natural contrarians; people who feel excluded no matter what the status quo is and need to use some therapeutic theoretical explanation to rationalize their discontent

>>15660181
>fascism is the most capitalist ideology.

What are you talking about you absolute retard?

>>15663556
Protection of wage labor and capital at all costs. There is nobody more dedicated to the capitalist cause than a fascist.

>>15663565
Low IQ post or bait.

>>15663172
"Pro-immigration" positions in American politics means you want to continue using the migrants as cheap labor. "Anti-immigration" positions in American politics means you want to empower lunatic vigilantes and contractors in charge of the concentration camp industry at the border. Both are equally vile positions but what can you expect from the same country that wages perpetual war for profit?

>>15663280
>>greco-roman society was 2% freeman and 98% slave

you started wrong

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/robert-anton-wilson-left-and-right-a-non-euclidean-perspective

>>15660181
>capitalist ideology

>>15663578
You're free to LARP as hating globohomo or whatever word of the week you're using to pretend to be anti-capitalist but it won't stop your fellow guys from defending ross dress for less with their lives.

Why did woke.net and their affiliates stop streaming after Juneteenth? Is the revolution cancelled? This wasn't just a DNC production to fund the Biden campaign was it? By the way remember to donate to BLM, you can find it on the ShareBlue website.

>>15663738
>my dad told me to go move out or pay rent so he's a fascist
These guys aren't fascists you fucking absolute mong lmao.

Does that guy guarding the border to the CHOP get paid? He just waived through some dude and his gf. Imagine sitting there listening to Chapo and having to waive normies through so they can tour the anarchist zoo.

>>15663738
>LARP
>implying criticism of international finance and usury isn't at the core of the ideology
>implying securing a living wage for the nation's workers by denying businesses from using foreign scabs isn't either
>implying they aren't there to antagonize as a show of force, rather than defend the buildings
Or maybe one their family member owns a business there and they have a vested interest

All the resentful people seething about their shitty capitalism job, just look at the stream of the poor sap stuck on guard duty at the CHOP border by that Thai place. He came to Seattle for a radical summer of love, instead someone told him to sit there and guard the door like a dog. I just want to shout "Bro! They're not paying you, you are free to go home!"

>>15663814
fascism has no ideology, it is literally just an uncompromising defence of capitalism, it can pretend to be whatever it wants but it actually happened in actual history and so know what it actually is.

>>15663844
Yeah, we know fascism is bad from history, unlike communism which has never been tried.

>>15663861
withering of the state you dumb baby, get an original talking point and actually read something

>>15663180
You need to take your meds unironically

>>15663874
Oh, yes, of course. If your theory doesn't match reality, it's reality that is wrong! So silly of me.

>>15663885
stop trying to quote the arguments you've practiced in your head and actually say something coherent

>>15662111
Truth, I was a reactionary between 2016 and 2019 and it was completely rooted in autistic seething. It took introspection and loosening of accumulated trauma in order to see myself and reality more cleearly

>>15663884
>take your meds
>incel
>cope
>yikes
You have never come up with anything original in your entire life and you never will.

>Unironic communist in 2020 thinks his belief system warrants a seriouspost response

Clown.

>>15663898
are you saying you cant understand what that anon said? his statement was pretty coherent and easy to understand

>>15663919
have sex

>tfw you make an effort post and then the thread immediately goes to hell

>>15663960
>tfw you've been gone for 2 weeks and the board is just fucking reddit commies now

>>15663973
the audacity of you people. You know you're new, we know you're new, so what is gained from this silly little performance?

>>15664009
You fucking retard. All these fags just show up and don't even discuss books. Actual commies used to come here and discuss Marx and Engels but now it's just these fucking chapo retards /leftypol/ posting.

>>15664024
If you discuss Marx and Engels too much you're inevitably run into the problem that they are wrong. It's better to keep it light and rude.

>>15664037
Mods let this place go to shit fast. You can go on warosu a month ago and actively look at the board degenerate totally over the next few weeks.

>>15664024
oh yeah, I remember 2 weeks ago when this was the home of constructive disccusion

>>15664090
It at least had some fraction of dedicated constructive discussion left.

>>15664053
I thought I was the only one noticing the trend, it got worse when the quarantine started, then the board practically crashed when summer came around. I like well-read lefties who are not meme-spouting chapo/twitter/leftypol escapees, but even those guys get drowned out by the screeching illiterate retards shitting up the board right now. The most hilarious thing is when they pretend to be oldfags while obviously having zero idea what things were like. I think I'll take a break from this board and come back when school/university starts again.

>>15664128
Yeah usually summerfags aren't this bad. This is just ridiculous. Already started seeing people horntposting here and there so it's looking like it's going to go the same way /x/ and /tv/ went. Get ready for "books about how to self suck" threads and "is hentai /lit/?" threads.

>>15663120
>this would mean there is no "correct" or "better" political idea. people are locked into a variety of ideas because they're "born that way".
doesn't follow at all fucking retard. you can't think.

>>15664114
it did and then in 2015/16 4chan literally became maga reddit and a bit after than that /lit/ became the jordan peterson subreddit so don't blame communism for all your problems

>>15664369
>4chan literally became maga reddit and a bit after than that /lit/ became the jordan peterson subreddit
none of those things are true, you're just a butthurt leftist.

>>15664369
Didn't happen to /lit/ you shithead. Faggots do this with every board they ruin. "board was always like this". Just go back. Fuck off forever.

>>15664369
It's so obvious that you're newfag when you imply that pre-2016 /lit/ was some leftypol garden of eden. Who do you think you're fooling, besides your fellow newfags?

>>15662106
Yeah nobody was poor before 2019

>>15664383
>>15664410
>>15664427
the absolute audacity of it

schizo,schizo, schizo

None of you are free of mental illness.

>>15663844
You're living in a different timeline.

>>15662111
Actually based.

>>15659960
Why did you quote yourself?

>>15663844
yes, fascism loves laissez faire capital, and definitely approves of private powers ascending from within

>>15659974
Based Retard.

>>15661846
Ah so you were alt-lite? Good riddance we need higher quality.