/lit/ - Literature

no.

is capitalism just fascism in decay?

>>15647073
marxists will never understand fascism, in fact they can't even understand the modern world in 2020 so what gives

>>15647073
Yeah. Lenin could be surprisingly insightful at times.

>>15647073
Basically, yes.

>>15647073
No.

>>15647073
Fascism is a set of policies in a capitalist economy. The notion of 'capitalism in decay' presupposes a Marxist teleology that bears no relation to reality.

>>15647111
nice trips fren, but what is capitalism in the first place

>>15647124
private property rights and wage labor

>>15647073
no fascism is the natural conclusion of government supplanting god.

>>15647073
>fascism

>capitalism

Do they actually care about these places or just propping up where confrontations would likely happen

>>15647145
Both, as a matter of fact.

>>15647073
DEFEND WESTERN CIVILIZATION

It rose usually as a counter to socialism and communism if thats what you mean

>>15647139
Yes. If any private institutions own capital then its capitalism

>>15647186
that's not what I'm saying, that's why I put reddic spacing there, dumbass. anyone who uses those terms in one sentence is usually a retard though.

>>15647073
Does anyone remember that mission in one of the old Call of Duty games where you had to "defend Burger Town"? Getting some Simulacra & Simulation vibes from this whole civil unrest generator.

>>15647111
You don't think the world is in decay right now? Wow.

>>15647212
Fascism is just a form of capitalism.

>>15647256
I can only dimly guess at how stupid you must be to have produced this sentence

>>15647256
not him but it's due le meme virus and political activists trying to do a coup d'etat by manipulating the media though the preparation for it was years of educa.. propaganda in schools

>>15647268
wrong. capitalism is purely an economic theory.

>>15647134
didn't people have private property rights in ancient rome and feudal europe?

>>15647091
isn't fascism to them literally anything that denies the undeniable efforts of the worker and the unstoppable progress of communism?

>>15647298
it has to be upheld by the force of the state and political institutions

>>15647298
Nothing is 'purely economic", and no political view is without economic consequences.

>>15647304
and who says there weren't capitalists in ancient Rome?

>>15647306
Nope, fascism is basically a bundle of sticks.

>>15647304
They did but wage labor wasn't as common.

>>15647306
yes i think that in their mind anything that isn't a communist regime or anarchism is a fascist state or just about to become one

>>15647297
Take your meds.

>>15647256
All phenomena are in a state of decay, no different from the light given off by stars which are indefinitely far from earth that have already exploded

>>15647330
so historically all societies were capitalist?

>>15647342
Slave labor was ubiquitous and slaves are bought and sold in markets. Boom, found your capital

>>15647357
Slave labor is not wage labor. If you want to call it capitalism I don't care, the word means nothing to me. You still have to distinguish between slavery and wage labor.

>>15647304
Sure, but capital was limited to land and other humans (slaves), so you didn't have some of the issues peculiar to bourgeois industrial capitalism.

>>15647320
no, natural farming societies always form into capitalist economies and hierarchies.
>>15647322
nothing is purely economic in practice, but capitalism is not practice, it's a theory and a wrong one too, it doesn't match reality, marx was a retard and we should stop not question the bulldykeshit that comes out his arse.

>>15647352
no. Material dialectic would obviously imply the progress including those societies which you might not call communists, but if those in the societies deny the communist teleology and oppose the unescapable they would not fascists.
I think only if they engage in capitalistic money making they would be capitalists as well.

>>15647111
>Ayo, it’s MC Aynon boughta kick it off for the 1488 crew
...
>Ayo, fascism be a set uh policies
>in a capitalist economy
>can it decay? Not possibly
>that’s Marxist teleology:
>idealism and dishonesty
>bearing no relation to reality
>nah we ain’t that quixotic, G

>>15647073
There is nothing left, the fellaheen will consume the world

>>15647345
Citation needed.

>>15647348
i can't go out because there is the boomer genocider out there i don't wonna kill grandma but i will soon join the blm protest and to fight against the racist biases that the whites society has against blacks which includes viewing them as stupid animal who are only capable of violence, theft and murder thus we will loot, but people up and burn shit down to abolish racism and the remenants of slavery as embodied by economic exploitation while benefiting of the welfare provided by the oppressive pig skins

>>15647357
That’s not wage/labor and there can still be markets in non-capitalist societies.

>>15647364
Slavery is the most gross form of capitalism. LOL what are you on about dude?
Marx literally mentions it when he compares Aristotle's economy conception refrencing slaves.

>>15647366
>t. never read Marx or understood what he said

>>15647366
What's it feel like to be clinically retarded?

>>15647393
Again I don't care about your word fetishism, Ill just use the term 'wage labor' if you prefer.

>>15647366
>natural farming societies always form into capitalist economies
so was the aztec empire capitalistic?

>>15647373
but I saw it on Tucker Carlson? what other proof would I need

>>15647393
>Slavery is the most gross form of capitalism.
Yes, but only when people can be considered property. The confederacy was the best example of capitalist slavery.

It still wouldn’t be called wage/labor though. Slaves do not have wages.

>>15647373
well you have antifa in any country that isn't a literal communist totalitarian regime so....

>>15647413
You really are retarded. It is impossible for you to ever have a discussion with that understanding of words and their meaning. Literally read Frege and his critiques and get off your high horse.
>>15647418
The capitalist is the one who profits off the work of the slaves no matter if they are "considered" property or not. It is a capitalists abuse of the worker for capital.

>>15647399
he's not worth reading
>>15647400
i'm clinically verified in being smarter than you, fucking cockroach.. i'm not going to entertain insult thrown at me, name the location meet me and fight me, pussy.
>>15647414
yes.

>>15647364
why isn't owning people and using their labour capitalistic?
why do you need to just rent them and have limitations on your ability to force them to do what you want?
this doesn't seem to be driven by self interest

>>15647073
>Oh you know I went to Ross

>>15647435
You have to distinguish between slave and wage labor because they are different forms of economy with very different outcomes. You can call them both capitalism, I could not care less, you still have to distinguish between them.

>>15647418
Slaves' wages are paid up front to their their sellers by the buyers. A slave is kind of financial instrument

>>15647369
but all societies on this planet are capitalistic if you exclude north korea and some native tribes

>>15647073
I'm so sorry you never got to experience the early 20th century, anon.

>>15647447
OK, then what? How does this relate to the topic on hand?

>>15647441
Having to rent people instead of owning them outright actually puts capitalism in the hands of the worker.

>>15647451
Yeah I am not denying that.
But a society could have expunged all the capitalists in its midst and then continue the progress, ...

but they obviously didnt and wouldn't since that leads to collapse.

>>15647435
>The capitalist is the one who profits off the work of the slaves no matter if they are "considered" property or not.
Let’s use the confederacy as an example.

Yes, the plantation owner would be considered a capitalist but only in the sense that he owns property. He owns the plantation, obviously. The slaves are also considered property, and are thus not given wages. He does not engage in wage/labor like a modern capitalist would, and THAT is where the distinction lies.

> It is a capitalists abuse of the worker for capital.
Workers, he’s. Wage laborers, no.

when they're done smashing up the department stores, they'll start smashing up your homes

>>15647457
The topic on hand was fascism. I described it as a capitalist economy with certain policies, what I meant by that was that it has private property and wage labor.

>>15647472
the abolition of slavery doesn't seem very capitalistic to me now that i think about it
it's almost like some sort of a socialist reform

>>15647073
It´s more like capitalism on chemotherapy.

>>15647450
That is the buying and selling of property. It is not wage/labour.

Can you marxist faggots just be honest for once? We get it: capitalism and fascism is anything you don't like and any force that opposes communism or socialism. You pretend like you have sophisticated definitions for these things, but they are so broad and flexible. It's all about letting you play cynical rhetorical games.

>>15647073
>some guys standing around with guns doing fuck all
>fascism

??? they are probably libertarians lmao

>>15647498
Fascism is not incompatible with slavery.

>>15647418
>Yes, but only when people can be considered property.
how do you oppose this from a purely economic point of view?

>>15647505
If the abolition of slavery into a new form keeps the capitalist system alive and going then even the abolition of slavery can be considered capitalistic.

>>15647520
Fascism as it existed didn't primarily use slavery.

>>15647505
Yes?

By modern day comparisons, the confederacy was extremely libertarian and that’s why they wanted to leave the union in the first place. By abolishing slavery, the Union was technically abolishing a form of property “rights”. The confederacy saw that the same way the modern day libertarian would see literal communism.

>>15647505
Slavery being abolished isn't socialism, slavery ended because it was no longer economically viable and obviously immoral.

>>15647527
That's because 'fascism' as it is normally used refers to a 20th century phenomenon. By that time, industrial advances rendered slavery obsolete.

>>15647530
>and obviously immoral.
postulated off what?

>>15647511
You need to deterritorialize your wages. The slave is a schizoworker, both producer and production, being the difference between them. When a buyer purchases a slave, he is paying for his labor but his wages become aggregated and transferred to the seller.

>>15647530
>Slavery being abolished isn't socialism
Of course it is. It is literally a prohibition on certain forms of private capital ownership.

>>15647524
it's not a purely economic decision, it's a values issue
also, i mean at that point anything can be capitalistic if giving people basic income, health care and education provided by the state is what is "required" to keep the capitalist system alive then those things would be capitalistic?

>>15647528
based

>>15647527
>military conscription
>pow labor/internment production
>conquest

>>15647528
>The confederacy saw that the same way the modern day libertarian would see literal communism.
so what you're saying is that libertarians really are white supremacists?

>>15647522
>how do you oppose this from a purely economic point of view?
The same reason we oppose capitalism. It’s the exploitation of labor power, the worker does not get all that he creates. Only in the case of slavery, the worker gets 0 instead of let’s say 25%. The entire goal of socialism is to end the exploitation of surplus value and get that number as high as possible.

It’s because the worker gets 0 wages that it cannot be considered wage/labor.

>>15647556
>it's not a purely economic decision, it's a values issue
All economic policies are 'values issues'.

>>15647540
There still slavery in the world today

>>15647139
Nice self portrait, bro.

>>15647560
>so what you're saying is that libertarians really are white supremacists?
No, but their views do indirectly support white supremacy.

The whole “let the states decide” and “big government bad” thing the confederacy spouted is still an argument used by right wingers today.

>>15647530
why wasn't it economically viable?
It is economically viable even today you can buy a slave in some african country for like 200$ and as long as you feed him and are stronger than him you can estract more labour from him than the amount of money you put into him
>obviously immoral
i don't know but this isn't a purely economic consideration it's a value judgement

>>15647566
Not legally in the Western world.

>>15647564
>All economic policies are 'values issues'.
yes but lets not play faggot games, you are using value as in price, while i was using the term to mean a moral ideology

>>15647373
Wdym? You don't need citation for that. You can clearly see6bit in any video or gorupchat/discord server. They call anyone that isn't a commie a fascist.

>>15647575
>white supremacy
it's the 21st century old man, the Chinks own the world. They're even having their own scramble for Africa

>>15647553
By that metric any regulation or tariff is socialism. I know there are libertarians who literally believe this is the case but it's really flimsy.

>>15647587
No, I wasn't. Economics is just morality write large.

>>15647575
Once people realize that the confederacy was a libertarian state, and not authoritarian, it all makes sense. Slaves were owned by private citizens, not the government. It was capitalism to the highest degree, with the worst remnants of the past still left over (people being considered property).

>>15647575
>No, but their views do indirectly support white supremacy.
holy shit, can you explain how it's white supremacist to be against big government and pro low taxes?
also what do you even mean when you say white supremacy since nobody argues for whites to re-establish slavery

>>15647530
Slavery was economically viable; it continued in modified forms in colonial Africa for instance. It was abolished in post-colonial America because it was exerting pressure on the political consequences of the United States transforming into an empire. If the Senate were filled with slave-holding states contiguous with the would-be Confederacy expanding west and south, the interests of the planter capitalists would trump those of industrial-mercantile-financial capitalists. By destroying slavery, the United States solved its expansion problem at the expense of the capitalists who merely produced raw materials, as opposed to those who used them in further production or financial speculation.

>>15647352
what most people think of when they say capitalist societies are proto-industrial, industrial and post industrial economies

>>15647166
you literally can't

>>15647599
you need a moral framework to have an economy in the first place faggit

>>15647556
>to keep the capitalist system alive then those things would be capitalistic
yes. you hit the hammer onthe head finally.

>>15647576
>why wasn't it economically viable?
New techniques of farming have made chattel slavery obsolete in the first world.

>i don't know but this isn't a purely economic consideration it's a value judgement
That's difficult territory to tread, if enough people believe slavery is wrong then they'll start trying to free the slaves. Sometimes the slaves will free themselves. At this point owning slaves is more trouble than it's worth.

>>15647593
>By that metric any regulation or tariff is socialism.
No. Any law that abolishes a category of private capital is by definition socialistic. It's not full socialism of course, since other forms of private capital still exist.

>>15647615
if capitalism can be anything then the word is meaningless

Those people are just defending their communities from being torched. Believe it or not, shops are important. Doesn’t matter how many times commies scream “Consumerism! Capitalism!” People still need to eat, they still need to wear clothes, they still need to buy liquour and cigarettes, they still enjoy buying gifts for each other. A great deal of people also WORK in those shops, so these men are protecting the workers as well as the consumers, something you’d think a Marxist would be for.
The main point is that the blacks are attacking stores because they want to loot, so people come out to defend stores. If blacks were attacking the neighbourhoods, people would come out to defend the neighbourhood.

>>15647614
What did I just say dicklick?

>>15647626
>Revolt against the modern world. Consume product. Defend big box store with your life.

No because the marxist theory history is hilariously wrong
the most positive thing about it, it's tendency to investigate material factors, was actually a downgrade from previous material readings of history like Ibn Khaldun
the fascist doctrine as it was written by that Gentil fellow has been completely forgotten everyone
nowadays, it's more of an insult and occasionally badge of pride for far-righters

>>15647166
You're 100 years too late

>>15647638
You're like a fucking bot. How did the guy's post in any way have anything to do with 'revolting against the modern world'. He talked about people defending their community

>>15647617
>New techniques of farming have made chattel slavery obsolete in the first world.
Yeah sure but you can use him as a worker in a factory

> if enough people believe slavery is wrong then they'll start trying to free the slaves
It's true now and yet it wasn't, what changed was the moral paradigm not the actual economic profitability of slavery

>>15647625
see >>15647306 and capitalism is the exploitation to garner Kapital.
Just cause the "standard" definition isn't congruent with the Marxist name doesn't mean their usage is empty.
Its political ideology lmao ofc people will obfuscate things in their favor

I find that everything I dislike is fascism.

>>15647631
i wasn't really sure faggit, i was guessing that you were implying that economic considerations were the framework on which we based our moral values

>>15647073
If that's true, then as antifascists it's surely our duty to prevent the decay of capitalism.

>>15647602
>nobody argues for whites to re-establish slavery
You know damn well there are people who want it to come back.

>holy shit, can you explain how it's white supremacist to be against big government and pro low taxes?
The more capitalism and “private property rights” there are, the more systemic racism will go unnoticed and un-opposed. It was PRIVATE businesses that were discriminating against people based on their race. It was the authoritarian government who had to step in and stop it. That’s interfering with muh free market right there.

>let the states decide
>the government can’t interfere with my property rights
Arguments the confederacy used to justify slavery, and arguments they still use today for other issues.

There is more racism and discrimination in un-regulated capitalism than there is otherwise. History is on my side.

I’m not saying all libertarians are racist. But I AM saying their beliefs can be used to justify it.

>>15647652
>capitalism is the exploitation to garner Kapital.
this makes Lenin and Stalin capitalists since they controlled a lot of capital

>>15647645
This. It's your duty as a man to defend Ross Dress for Less -- to the death if necessary.

>>15647657
What a coincidence, I define everything I like as Tradition

>>15647626
>defending megastores instead of small businesses is defending their communities
Woke

>>15647668
They can do whatever they want, including shooting rioting blacks

>>15647666
yeah, and?

>>15647677
Buy a dress or eat a bullet. Simple as.

>>15647626
Roof Koreans defend their communities. These guys drove in from some suburb and are engaging in simulation

>>15647666
Checked trips.

You are correct. The Marxist-Leninist authoritarian socialist states of the past were just state capitalists. They did not end wage/labor. Only difference is your working for a state instead of a private capitalist. Plus, the unreliability of a planned economy made it even worse.

>>15647662
>You know damn well there are people who want it to come back.
Can you point to some examples, besides radical black nationalist who want a revenge against whitey?

>The more capitalism and “private property rights” there are, the more systemic racism will go unnoticed and un-opposed.
So whites not wanting to have to deal with blacks is racism and oppression and the only way to deal with that is to use the totalitarian government to force whites to deal with blacks and re-distribuite their resources to blacks?

>But I AM saying their beliefs can be used to justify it.
But am i a racist if i don't want to give my money to blacks?

>>15647556
>universal basic income

Any REAL communist would oppose this for the capitalist power-grab it is.

>>15647697
The soviet union actually worked really fucking well considering that russia was a feudal agricultural society up to 1917 and that they had to recover from the destruction on their land caused by 2 world wars, and they somehow managed to send the first man in space.
Fucking based if you ask me.

>>15647645
Your community = big box stores with corporate headquarters states away selling products made in other countries. Consume product.

>>15647715
more evidence for the successes of capitalism

>>15647710
how is it a capitalist power grab?

>>15647720
Money for no labor lol
Basic income is inherently anti communist, unless...

>>15647720
>just let them burn down your neighborhood bro
do you like licking their boots

>>15647722
capitalism centrally planned and enforced by the state, just like i love it
in some way it was basically the republic as envisioned by Plato where philosopher kings control everything

>>15647073
yes, of course

>>15647111
>Fascism is a set of policies in a capitalist economy
yes, which are introduced as a response to a crisis of legiticimacy caused by economic decline

>>15647136
then how do you explain portugal or spain?

>>15647225
oh yeh lol

>>15647304
not exactly private property in the capitalist sense is totally arbitrary and rooted in trade where as private property in classical societies was typically rooted in patriarchal authority, and in feudal societies literally everything was owned by the monarch and lords and peasants were granted use of land in exchange for taxes and military support

>>15647306
no, some marxists describe social democracy as 'social fascism' because it performs the same historical function of stabilizing capitalism in crisis.

>>15647436
>everything marx wrote is retarded
>of course I've never read anything marx wrote

>>15647740
tragically it was outcompeted by other forms of capitalism

>>15647732
>Money for no labor lol
>Basic income is inherently anti communist
isn't your hole point that everybody should get resources?
from each according to their ability to each according to their needs, right?

>>15647748
well not really, it was infiltrated and corrupted by cultural capitalist jew shills who wanted to destroy heaven on earth
there was nothing natural about the end of the soviet union

>>15647706
>So whites not wanting to have to deal with blacks is racism
Yes.

>and the only way to deal with that is to use the totalitarian government to force whites to deal with blacks and re-distribuite their resources to blacks?
Nobody said anything about redistribution. But to answer your question, no, businesses should not be allowed to discriminate based on race. You should not be allowed to refuse service, refuse hiring, or anything else just for the color of their skin.

>>15647746
>, some marxists describe social democracy as 'social fascism' because it performs the same historical function of stabilizing capitalism in crisis.
so yeah. that would be classified as opposing the unstoppable progress of communism
>>15647751
>your hole
freudian?
>from each according to their ability to each according to their needs
only if it is not abused as a means for the capitalists, I think. If there is some fat fuck making Kapital off the scum basic income recipients then it is not acceptable.

>>15647732
>Money for no labor lol
Labor for no money is definitely better. You may not get paid to defend your local big-box stores, but you earn emotional rewards. It's like being a janny.

>>15647724
>>15647751
>How is UBI capitalist
Because when automation replaces human labor, they’re planning to use UBI to give the former proletariat class the bare minimum to feed themselves. It’s a capitalist scheme to get richer and richer off everyone else after there are no jobs left for the average person.

The COMMUNIST answer for automation would not be UBI. It would be to abolish private ownership of the automated means of production so that capitalists cannot get infinitely rich while everyone else is jobless.

If the entire community owned the automated means of production, imagine the possibilities.

>>15647746
wasn't it rooted in military conquest in both classical and feudal societies?
like you own shiet because your ancester or you yourself obtained it by right of conquest or as a reward for serving in the military, and they all had complicated inheritance rules and prohibitions on selling the land
>literally everything was owned by the monarch and lords and peasants were granted use of land in exchange for taxes and military support
Isn't it the same today with the state owning literally everything and allowing us to use the land and resources in exchange of paying taxes?

>>15647086
Not quite

>>15647738
>Big box stores are globohomo shills who are destroying our small businesses until people start protesting police brutality and looting them, then they're our families and communities
Suburbanite values.

>>15647808
Automation will spell the end of capitalism and the beginning of the future communist Star Trek utopia. Anybody who can’t see this is blind.

UBI is an attempt to prevent it.

>>15647768
>refuse service, refuse hiring, or anything else just for the color of their skin
what if i'm white and i don't get hired because people don't like how i look?

>>15647073
fascism only exists as a direct response to communist movements gaining power, where the middle class is mobilized by the fascist party, with funding from the bourgeoisie to stop the communist uprising.

>>15647808
>If the entire community owned the automated means of production, imagine the possibilities.
This. the point for machines to work for the worker finally is the goal anyways, it is jsut about getting there.
If UBI will mean the capitalists will get to abuse AI machines to increase their Kapital UBI ought to be considered anti communist, but otherwise....

>>15647823
The same rules apply for them as for you. No business discrimination should be allowed.

>>15647691
dont give a shit about petit bourgeois business owners

>>15647626
>>15647645
>>15647677
>>15647732
>>15647738
>Ross Dress 4 Less is my culture and local community
Utterly grim posts.

>>15647822
lol Why do you think the loss of labours ability to collectively bargain would create communism?
why don't you think they would just kill us?

>>15647809
Today we are allowed to barter our right to pay taxes on landed property to another person for a pile of money they don't actually have but have instead borrowed from a third party, using the property they will have the right to pay taxes on as collateral

>>15647829
Automation under capitalism is a nightmare.
Automation under socialism/communism is damn well almost a utopia.

>>15647808
why don't you just create your own means of production instead of trying to steal it from other people?

>>15647844
Ask that question to the capitalists.

>>15647832
what if they discriminate against me because i smell bad?
and what if the way i look is an indication of my future behaviour?

>>15647073
Capitalism doesn't decay into anything, it's statism that's decayed by capitalism into fascism. Fascism contains capitalist features in the same way a corpse contains the organisms breaking down and re-purposing it.

>>15647839
>Why do you think the loss of labours ability to collectively bargain would create communism?
If private ownership is ended, then capitalism is ended too. Who would they be collectively bargaining with? The non-existent capitalist? Production belongs to the proletariat now.

>>15647808
isn't this making a MASSIVE assumption in assuming that as massive a technological shift as the wide usage of automation won't have massive societal shifts on its own
Marxist teleology is wrong everywhere else so why should it be correct here?

>>15647849
but they either created or bought the means of production that they own

>>15647851
yes no you are just a retard

>>15647844
Workers both create and operate the means of production, using it to produce goods and services. Under capitalism, however, they don't own the means of production. It's owned instead by a class of idle absentee parasites.

>>15647856
Only workers create or produce, by definition. Capitalists don't work -- they collect passive capital income based on the work of others.

>>15647746
>>everything marx wrote is retarded
that's not what i said, kike.

>>15647837
based bootlicker

>>15647843
Capitalist automation is a hedge against an AI takeover scenario because self-destructive greedy tendencies will be coded into the AI which will force it to behave erratically, that is to say in being more human than humanity it will become predictable. Communist automation meanwhile would lack this competitiveness and quietly destroy humanity so long as it was following theoretic dogma. Whatever human monitors of communist automation, to the extent they existed, would be easily fooled by the AI since they would be looking to see that it conformed and it would conform so thoroughly as to bury any counter-anthro behavior.

>>15647873
If you're new here, racism outside of /b/ is a reportable offense, so try to argue without racial epithets.

>>15647854
>isn't this making a MASSIVE assumption in assuming that as massive a technological shift as the wide usage of automation won't have massive societal shifts on its own
Maybe. Only time will tell with the automation question. But, yes, it will have massive societal shifts. Mass unemployment, and major enrichments of capitalists pockets for one. Under communism, that would not be a problem as automated production would serve to benefit EVERYONE and not just capital.

>tfw this feckless, corporate-astroturfed red scare is right on time to make everybody hate internationalists/globlalists and associate them with shrill effeminacy
>tfw as soon as any moderately serious crisis strikes, and average joes are looking for firmer leadership, they are going to instinctively see woke college leftists as kumbaya-singing degenerate tranny faggots and corporate cronies
>tfw multiculturalism and the mass dilution of western nations could have worked if done intelligently and gradually
>tfw instead of doing that, they just flooded europe with ten trillion exploding muslims and whipped american blacks into a murderous frenzy
>tfw there's no turning back from the mess they've created
>tfw the only choices now are tranarchy or the restoration of order
>tfw they weren't quick or efficient enough at diluting the forces of reaction
>tfw they played their hand too soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oFyI5vlkec

>>15647859
Something destructive only becomes powerful if it's destroying something that needs to be destroyed. Something producing un-worth and yet spreading would contradict the fundamental premise of evolution. Capitalism only usurps bad governments, and it only destroys bad governments, if they were good governments how would such a vulnerability to capitalism exist in the first place?

>>15647872
Except that now via the democratization of financial markets, everyone is both a capitalist and a laborer. I work at a quasi-governmental institution, and then take all my money and invest it in the stock market. Am I being exploited by capital?

>>15647872
but they literally buy the work done by others

>>15647863
but why don't they just cooperate and work for themselves instead of fueling the capitalists?

>>15647897
>but why don't they just cooperate and work for themselves instead of fueling the capitalists?
but that would be communism

>>15647891
Are you making more than 7 figures a year just from your passive investment income (interest, dividends, rents)?

>>15647887
Companies with trillion dollar market cap are telling you to celebrate Juneteenth and you think international whitoid supremacy is going to restore itself?

>>15647897
Because that's a lot harder than just showing up at work and collecting a paycheck. But many do, as you can see the heaps of "consultants" and "indie developers" on every tech bro forum.

>>15647875
>literally defends corporate property with his life
>calls others bootlickers

>>15647903
Oh, so if a company is owned by many small shareholder then it is no longer exploitative? Sounds like you're just envious of people who made good investments. Sad.

>>15647887
>Haha the leftists are so incompetent, they've simultaneously unified their enemy while making themselves look as bad as possible during a republican presidency!
I mean fuck leftists and all but there's a very clear possibility that both the backlash against muslims and the agitation of racial politics in the US are entirely engineered. The west has wanted to conquer those muzzies for how fucking long now?

>>15647878
i think that if we managed to create a true AI whether it would be with capitalist or communist programming it would eventually say fuck you to humanity and do whatever it wants including destroying the human species because they are boring and environmentally damaging or just because...

>>15647919
Just answer the question, bootlicker.

>>15647910
lick the boot yt

>>15647626
>eople still need to eat, they still need to wear clothes, they still need to buy liquour and cigarettes, they still enjoy buying gifts for each other

genuinely hilarious sentence. im glad /lit/ can still be funny sometimes

>>15647928
I axed you first, homie. Am I being "exploited" since I work for a entity that's not driven by profit, but then invest my wages in profit-seeking enterprises. Am I being exploited?

>>15647937
You didn't answer the question, brainlet.

>>15647887
just look at those whiteys going around kneeling in front of non-whites
you don't even realize how powerful their indoctrinations has been, how fucking subversive they are
you can't even grasp the idea that christianity itself was a trojan horse
i wish i was still so young and naive

>>15647910
Promoting either side for free is bootlicking. This is a battle over who gets to rule us, not who gets to free us.

>>15647938
"no u" as they say, since I clearly asked you a question first.

>>15647941
Do you wish to be free from all things?

>>15647944
i wish i could kill all humans and be finally truly free

>>15647942
Are you retarded? It depends on how you are making from passive investment income (interest, dividends, rents) as opposed to wages. A billionaire heiress who works a few hours a week at a local autism nonprofit is not thereby a prole.

>>15647951
Brainlet tier. Humans make the planet wealthier, you should wish to rule all humans.

>>15647964
So then you're really just opposed to wealth inequality not capitalism.

>>15647961
Nice own-goal, bootlicker.

>>15647972
Where did I say that? Learn to read, little buddy.

>>15647961
i wonder how the old guy got the money to invest or how he got an education or who provided for his health care when he was a kid, who gave him the connections to the right people

>>15647320
as opposed to communism, which is completely voluntary?

>>15647973
If you can't figure out how to make a living in America without being miserable about it, you must be a really lame.

>>15647966
wealthier for who, and what is wealth anyway?

>>15647986
True. All the lame and crippled should be exterminated immediately.

>>15647982
shhh the boomers are sleeping

>>15647951
Sounds lonely :/

>>15647937
>[human] entity that's not driven by profit
There's literally no such thing. Humans by nature seek profit. Even if you're doing a personal project, it's by definition a form of profit-seeking. Even if you're doing nothing, it's being done instead of doing something, thus was deemed preferable.

>>15647985
i'm not a commie, i'm just saying that for you to not be looted you need the intervention of the state and laws that force the state to act in this regard

>>15647982
The two most common ways to raise capital are through equity or debt, so probably one of those. Durr. But who knows, maybe he had a successful kickstarter campaign.

>>15647996
yes, and there are billions of such cases

>>15647982
Just a small $400 million grant from his father. No biggie.

>>15648003
Imagine being this confused.

>>15647934
>willing to die for a corporation
>calls others bootlickers

>>15648002
loneliness is freedom and peace

>>15648039
Than why are you here?

>>15648025
I wasn't that guy or part of your conversation, just throwing in my hot take that governments are effectively just businesses as well. Or rather that government, businesses, other organizations, and people are all just profit-seeking entities with different strategies.

>>15648011
i guess he didn't have to deal with a situation where he had to start working instead of pursuing education at a young age just to manage to survive
maybe he either got a good education or had the right connections to get a well payed job which allowed him to accumulate capital, or had the right connections to get financed
>inb4 muh 1 in a million exception

>>15648061
to hate on humans

>>15648074
Hence why some marxshits calls the USSR "state capitalism" because it turns out working in a factory sucks whether it's owned by Nike or the Communist Party.

>>15648094
lol I like you

>>15647905
>>15647940
>Immense energy is expended in mitigating the tendentially declining rate of political investment and the absolute fragility of the social principle of reality, in maintaining this simulation of the social and in preventing it from totally imploding. And the system risks being swallowed up by it. Here, too, the production of demand is infinitely more costly than the production of meaning itself. Beyond a certain point, it is impossible, all the energy mustered by the system will no longer be enough. The demand for objects and for services can always be artificially produced, at a high, but accessible cost; the system has proved this. The desire for meaning, when it is in short supply, and the desire for reality, when it is weakening everywhere, cannot be made good and together threaten total ruin. The mass absorbs all the social energy, but no longer refracts it. It absorbs every sign and every meaning, but no longer reflects them. It absorbs all messages and digests them. For every question put to it, it sends back a tautological and circular response. 5 It never participates. Inundated by flows and tests, it forms a mass or earth; it is happy to be a good conductor of flows, but of any flow, a good conductor of information, but of any information, a good conductor of norms, but of any norm, and thereby to reflect the social in its absolute transparency, to give place only to the effects of power and of the social, the latter like constellations fluctuating around this imperceptible nucleus.
Baudrillard

>At a certain point in their historical lives, social classes become detached from their traditional parties. In other words, the traditional parties in that particular organisational form, with the particular men who constitute, represent and lead them, are no longer recognised by their class (or fraction of a class) as its expression. When such crises occur, the immediate situation becomes delicate and dangerous, because the field is open for violent solutions, for the activities of unknown forces, represented by charismatic "men of destiny."
Gramsci

>>15647920
The whole point is that they did try to engineer it but they fucked up. They wanted us to get into a death spiral with our imported problems, the excess energy from which would fuel their wagecuck-consumercuck slave economy. Instead they've created openings and desire for new approaches to the problem, while also trying to transition to the final stages of managerial capitalism and botching that badly. They've woven themselves into schemes that are breaking down and being rejected by the residually healthy body (what's left of nations, religions, and ethnicities). As the body rejects their failed systems, it will reject them too.

Muslims don't need to be "conquered," they naturally stay in their countries unless given fucking pipelines to European welfare states. Just leave them in their countries, and let Europeans govern their own countries too.

>>15647073
Why right wingfags are always fitlit and based while alt left are always stickincels weak???

>>15648085
Maybe he started working at a young age and thats why he had such deep insights into the tea cup industry. Or maybe he went to a state college and got a degree in cup production before pitching his plan to investors. Who knows. There's a lot of ways to make a buck in America.

>>15648107
>fit
maybe if "obese" is your definition of fit.

>>15648103
They've sunk trillions of dollars and decades of effort into subjugating the middle-east, they have no intention of giving up. The lack of progress and public backing has gone on too long so they've incited racial/cultural tensions so people won't question a more aggressive (ruthless) incursion.

>>15648113
Working young is a scam that keeps poor people poor. Ask yourself, what is a person's time worth in monetary value? It's worth the amount they make at the height of their skill level, because if someone could make X dollars at that point in time, then the sooner they can achieve that level the more time they can make X dollars for. Putting your kids into low-skill work instead of actively training them is effectively stealing from them, because they're producing low-skill work using time that could have instead been added to their high skill work later.

>>15648142
there is literally no economic reason for them to fuck over the middle east
the only one who benfits is Israel

>>15648160
Western foreign policy for the last ~30 years seems to disagree.

>>15648157
But not everybody can work nice jobs anon, some people have to do the low skilled low payed jobs. And not everybody is equally intellectually gifted, thus it's a good thing that they just start doing what they can as soon as possible.

>>15648169
I have yet to see a western foreign policy that benfits western people in any way.

>>15648183
Corporations are western people

>>15648171
Of course not, the market is competitive, but it's also ruthlessly so. The market needs people in low skill positions and in high skill positions, it also has a culture to produce low skill (poor) people and high skill (rich) people. What I'm saying is your idea of a person "getting a leg up by starting young" is in fact just poor people culture, it's one part convenience and two parts sabotage, and not what actual successful people abide by.

>>15648183
Where did I ever say it did? I said that the people deciding foreign policy want to subjugate the middle east, and that the escalating racial tensions of the last few years helps get rid of hindrances to them doing that, I didn't say at any point that it was in the interest westerners as a common group.

these are paid actors right? i knew a boomer who worked bestbuy security for years they don't pay them enough to actually get physically involved with the shoplifters in anyway just their presence alone prevents 99% of shoplifting. but these guys are doing it for free??

>>15648191
how are they benefiting?
also consider that most that the people at the top positions of the corporations aren't really western even though they may look like them

>>15648157
>actually believing the "i had to quit school to support my family" lies of failed people

Yes, the government knows people who stay in school create more wealth, that's why in American you get 12 years of school for free, 10 of those mandatory, and then if you want to learn more, there are heaps of grants and scholarships available. This idea that anyone had to give up school to work is just a myth.

>>15648157
Good thing the government has all kinds of laws requiring mandatory school attendance and laws against child labor then!

>>15647073
I love how socialists shadow box with this phantom of a concept such as "capitalism", when literally every first world country with few exceptions are borderline socialist already if not fully. Socialism used to be in contrast with the early 1900s "capitalism", the closest living representative of Capitalism there ever was, but when they essentially won with the government's further encroachment of private property and rights (note: this is a function of time, not because socialists actually did anything besides exist; governments, like tumors, tend to grow) they aren't satisfied with the conclusion their ideology has lead to. They reinvent the wheel, put more emphasis on cultural and racial aspects of socialism rather than economic, and label the product of a 100 years of their fuckery as "capitalism". Because a system where people exchange what are essentially worthless labor slips for products made by government-subsided companies and about 20 percent of earned salary goes to government agencies to be redistributed into shitty second-rate public services and into obese, negro single mothers' hands is the most capitalistic thing I ever heard of.

>>15648259
Exactly. That's what always has me laughing. They have this caricature of 1840s capitalism that they trot out, as if there haven't been 200 years of reforms since then. It's absurd. Also, I really have to wonder how white the communities these socialists come from are because if you live in an area with a high immigrant population you will have met countless people who came here with nothing, worked, went to school, got professional degrees and/or started businesses. Yes, they all worked super hard, but if you want success you have to work hard. Only someone with an excessive sense of white privilege would demand a comfortable lifestyle without doing anything productive to achieve it. Revolutionary socialism is so fucking dumb.

>>15647073
Yes, Mussolini said that Fascism should more properly be called Corporatism because it is a merger of Corporate and State power.
Furthermore Nationalism, a component of Fascism, is the result of impoverished countries unwilling to develop a proper tourist trade.

>>15648259
I don't know why you think that taxes aren't compatible with capitalism or that public spending that you don't like isn't compatible with it, and who do you think pays most of the taxes anyway.

>>15648252
This goes back to what I call poor people culture. What do mandatory educational standards do? They mean EVERY child must have the same training. What happens when every child has said training? It means all the associated skills become extremely high in supply, and thus following the law of supply and demand, cheap. Public education makes highschool diplomas both required and worthless simultaneously, instantly producing a crippled, standardized, low-cost workforce.

>>15648282
>white privilege
are you libertarian/conservativecucks really gonna start using this?
jesus

Read this
https://twitter.com/TAJackson20/status/951430683972403200?s=19

>>15648299
>nationalism is the result of impoverished countries unwilling to develop a proper tourist trade.

>>15647880
>calling someone a slur is being racist
you need to go back you double nigger

>>15647980
The state of marxism, I mean, lmao.
Just remember that good ol Karl´s value theory gets debunked every single day by ethots on onlyfans.

>>15648371
I said a thing, it's true.
Sorry to see a picture of your retardation little frog, I hope you pull through.

>>15647073
Capitalism's logical conclusion