/lit/ - Literature

>>15644213
How is that cringe? You're cringe for making this thread.

>>15644213
How do atheists live with themselves knowing they'll be baking 6 feet underground after death?

>>15644224
>woah atheism is popular now I must therefore become a tradcath
You faggots are hipsters

>>15644228
>atheism is popular now

It's not the 2000s anymore.

Is this you?

>>15644226
Why would they know that? What reason do they have to believe hell exists? Why do you?

>>15644226
>after death
There's your answer. I'm not dead yet, so I've got stuff to do.

>>15644213
Do you usually notify everyone whenever you find something you cringe at?

Americanism

>>15644224
>You're cringe for making this thread.

FPBP.

>>15644224
fpbp kys OP

>>15644224
it's cringe because religion is cringe and atheism is based

>>15644226
>NOOO WHY WOULD YOU LIVE IN REALITY WHEN YOU COULD TAKE THE BLUE PILL

>>15644213
Seek Jesus, He can help you cope.

>>15644213
He's a true Christian and he wasn't indoctrinated by fear from a young age like some.

>>15645070
Jesus approves OP. Suck OPs dick, moron.

>>15644224
>joining a cult of pedophile jew-worshipers
>"How is that cringe?"
cringe

>>15645123
Un ironically today only one christian exists. Those who worship bible are really stupid faggots.

>>15645140
>>joining a cult of pedophile jew-worshipers
>>"How is that cringe?"
>cringe
cringe

>>15644213
kek based op

>>15644213
Books for this phenomenon?

>>15644226
>they'll be baking 6 feet underground after death?
Many of them smoke marijuana as it is

>>15644224
How is it not cringe??
Making the thread again included.

>>15644224
mainstream religious pederasty looks good on /x

People who claim to believe in Christianity for philosophical reasons are reprobates to whom God has sent a spirit of delusion. They are not Christians.

>>15645136
Homosex is an abomination. You're in the wrong here, and you ashamed of yourself.

>>15645169
This applies to 100% of all "traditional Catholics."

>>15645174
Indeed brother, it is interesting how these "Christians" inevitably advocate for homosexuality in some crude manner
They will surely be the first to burn in Hell

>>15645145
I have an exceedingly hard time believing the people who taught Sunday school where I grew up ever read the Bible; its terse as shit and would take me a long time to parse through if I ever attempted it again.
That being said, I don't adhere to it strictly even as a Christian since its been rewritten so many times to fit whatever agenda of the ruling class.
The Ten Commandments however are a decent ethical ruleset and some stuff like abortion is easier to think about in Biblical terms.

>>15645155
Frank Sheed, Theology and Sanity.

Thomas Merton, The Seven-Story Mountain

GK Chesterton, Orthodoxy

GK Chesterton, The Everlasting Man

CS Lewis, Mere Christianity

>>15645209
>frank sneed
shit b8

>>15645201
>since its been rewritten so many times to fit whatever agenda of the ruling class.
Provide one example of this please (you can't).

>>15645197
>the mind of a reprobate immediately retorts to forms of deviant sexual behavior
go figure
its not our problem though

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

>>15645209
Orthodoxy is great. The chapter on insanity is top notch.

>>15645169
why’d god do that

>>15645232
>sell all your possessions and come live in my commune
>haha just kidding owning possessions is based never mind

>>15645254
To punish your intellectual pride.

>>15645258
I need to you to show me something that was rewritten to fit the agenda of the ruling class, not something that you personally think is contradictory. I'd also like to know how it was "rewritten" given the broad geographical diffusion of manuscripts, when this "rewriting" occurred, who did it, etc. I'm quite sure you're just repeating bullshit you heard on a Youtube video and have never critically examined.

>>15645261
but i wouldn’t have had any pride if he hadn’t sent the demons after me

>>15645278
God is in charge of who is saved, not you. You can only be saved if God chooses to save you specifically.

>>15645281
what a dick

>>15645270
>not something that you personally think is contradictory
Cope

>>15645288
It's not a cope. What you are suggesting is incredibly implausible and would have evidence in the manuscripts that we possess. If a certain ruler imposed such a thing the change would be visible from manuscripts in other parts of the world and in other translations. Of course there isn't any such evidence because it never happened.

>>15645270
Not him but yea it wasn't so much "rewritten" as a document, rather rewritten to become the document of the "Bible"
The entire old testament morphed the source documents to fit a pro-Judea, Israel-skeptic view in order to justify the ascendancy of Jews over Samaritans. In this sense, the entire old testament is marred with little Judea propaganda at the expense of Israel. The most obvious consequence of this being the importance given to Jerusalem.
In a less significant way, we have dumb shit like Baal psalms lazily rewritten for YHWH

>>15644475
yikes!

>>15645300
>it’s n-not a c-cope
Cope

>>15645155
kek

odds are this shitposter gets converted anyway?

>>15645317
Research it yourself then and I'm sure you'll find whatever it is you're looking for.

>>15645307
>rather rewritten to become the document of the "Bible"
What you're claiming then is that there was a manipulation of the Old Testament to make it more in accord with the New Testament. There's no such evidence of this.

>>15645336
I mean, this "rewriting" if it occurred could easily be demonstrated by looking at the Old Testament as it was preserved by Jews. It's a laughable idea.

>>15644228

>>15645336
>What you're claiming then is that there was a manipulation of the Old Testament to make it more in accord with the New Testament
That's not what I'm claiming at all, how did your brain get that from a conversation strictly regarding the construction of the Torah you dunce?
>There's no such evidence of this.
Not only was I not claiming this, there is actually plenty of evidence of this. Easy example is the KJV treatment of concepts such as Hell vs Sheol, where the Jewish Sheol is selectively translated in a way to align with New Testament ideas of afterlife.

>>15644213
>missed the atheist bandwagon
>got tricked by jewish libertarians instead

>>15644213
literally seething lmao

>>15645376
>That's not what I'm claiming at all, how did your brain get that from a conversation strictly regarding the construction of the Torah you dunce?
You stated that the OT was "rather rewritten to become the document of the "Bible"". The Bible is a Christian collection of texts that includes the NT. If that's not what you meant then speak more clearly.
>Easy example is the KJV treatment of concepts such as Hell vs Sheol
So now we're talking about translations? I want to know about the text being "rewritten." We possess manuscripts in the original languages and translations are made from the original languages, not the KJV. Are you claiming that a translation is wrong or that the text was "rewritten", because those are not the same thing. I've found people that have no clue about any of this tend to conflate the two and make statements like "The Bible has been translated over and over so it's not reliable" which is completely nonsensical. I can't count how many times I've heard someone say some retarded shit like this.

>>15645281
This is what Augustinism has lead to. If only Pelagius had been victorious..

>>15645424
It's what proper exegesis of the New Testament leads to.

>>15645432
Double predestination goes against scripture.

>>15645174
But everything is Gods will. Including your fart and how people fuck each other.

>>15645435
>Rom. 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
I'd like to know what you mean by "double predestination" as within Reformed theology there are multiple takes on how the reprobate are damned, primarily making a distinction regarding the logical ordering of God's decree of creation. I can explain further if you wish.

>>15645283
You are Gods anal slave, deal with it.

>>15645469
nah

>>15644228
Atheism isn't popular anymore though. There's decreasing religiosity but virgins don't brag about their intelligence and atheism online anymore.

>>15645416
>You stated that the OT was "rather rewritten to become the document of the "Bible"". The Bible is a Christian collection of texts that includes the NT. If that's not what you meant then speak more clearly.
Uhhmmm akhtually the bible means the books, so there is no issue with referring to the collected books of the torah this way
What are you hoping to get from this? Obfuscate your lack of reading comprehension?

>So now we're talking about translations? I want to know about the text being "rewritten." We possess manuscripts in the original languages and translations are made from the original languages, not the KJV. Are you claiming that a translation is wrong or that the text was "rewritten", because those are not the same thing. I've found people that have no clue about any of this tend to conflate the two and make statements like "The Bible has been translated over and over so it's not reliable" which is completely nonsensical. I can't count how many times I've heard someone say some retarded shit like this.
Translation is rewritting by definition, and in the case of the Bible it there is no choice but to render every word out in such a way that you undermine faith based understanding. Most translations are self serving to some degree, sometimes in a way that looks subconscious on the part of the translator (e.g. the treatment of Phoebe). But who's to say it wasn't intentional?

I can't help but notice you've side stepped every Biblical issue I've brought up. Are you going to address any of these, or are you content with juggling your discomfort by deflecting with "but uhhhh, are you saying translation is rewritting?"
Sorry, that doesn't begin to touch the treatment of Sheol I laid out for you already, how about you start there? Then maybe we can move on to fun stuff, like the Divine Council perhaps? :)

>>15645201
Ten Commandments may go to hell. Only one is important and sufficient:
- "I" is God.

>>15645463
>Double predestination is the idea that not only does God choose some to be saved, he also creates some people who will be damned
this means that God didn't sacrifice his Son to save mankind but rather only the few which he has predestined to be saved

>>15645458
No dumbass. God gave us free will. You are free to deviate from God's will and rebel only to fuck yourself over all you like.

>>15645509
That's not what that term usually means. What you're referring to is called Limited Atonement. Anyway, putting your statement on the flip side, if Christ died for every human in the world, it means that Christ fails to save many (most?) of the people for whom he died. Limited Atonement means that Christ is a completely effectual savior, and that every single person that he died to save will be saved no matter what.
>John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
>>15645529
People do not have free will in the sense you mean.

>>15644235
based kruppposter

>>15645538
You are free to the right thing, or the wrong anon.

>>15645201
You’re best bet is learning Aramaic. True Christianity has long been subverted

>>15645538
I believe that which I was refering to is called Unconditional Election.
>Limited Atonement means that Christ is a completely effectual savior, and that every single person that he died to save will be saved no matter
In other words: Christ only saves those who God has predestined to receive salvation, meaning that Christ didn't come to save the world or mankind but only those select few who have been chosen to be redeemed.
>1 Tim. 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
>2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

>>15645608
>I believe that which I was refering to is called Unconditional Election.
It's not; Unconditional Election refers to election not being based on any actions or qualities of a person, but solely upon the will of God.
>Christ only saves those who God has predestined to receive salvation
Correct.
>1 Tim. 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
>2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance
We make a distinction between God's decretive will and preceptive will. His decretive will refers to his decree of that which will occur. His preceptive will refers to that which he commands, which may or may not match what occurs. For example, God commands people not to murder (preceptive) and yet they do so anyway. The two verses you cite cannot refer to God's decretive will, because even if Christ's death were intended for all men, it would mean that God's will would be thwarted, because not all men are saved. The verses refer to God's preceptive will.
This might be a bit strange to consider, but all men are commanded to have faith in and obey Christ even if they are reprobates. There is a turn of phrase in the Bible which is not much remarked upon, that we are to "obey the Gospel." Example:
>2 Thess. 1:7 ...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
>8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
The Gospel is not simply a thing to be believed, but a binding command upon all men.

>>15644224
fpbp op is nigger

>>15644224
fpbp

>>15644224
just came to say this: fpbp

>>15645709
>>15645780
>>15645785
>3 fpbp posts sucking jew cock
>thread only increased by 1 for unique posters
hmmmm

>>15645201
>its been rewritten so many times
Why do people think this? Yes, it's been translated several times. But the Bible has not gone through all these different rewrites like the drafts of a screenplay. While it's true the stories in Genesis were passed down through word of mouth, and we know the flood story is found in many other cultures, but for the rest of the Old Testament, it's always been written down, and so has the New Testament.

All our translations of the New Testament are not rewrites. The original manuscripts are in Greek, and they still exist in the world. They aren't so far in the past to be fragments. This was early A.D.

You are correct that when you say the texts are translated to fit the agenda, but they are not translations of translations of translations. This is huge misconception.

>>15645820
Keep crying, bitch nigga.

>>15644224
TradCells or the most pathetic cope!

Even doomers or people getting lost in autistic fantasies got honestly more self respect!

Imagine finding out how rotten the institution of the church is and how faith makes you a weak person, not able to live without it and destroys your life
but then think "me see sjw me need act like me side of culture war!!11!"

Imagine Neo in the matrix doing self mutiliation anytime he thinks vaguely about the matrix!
Not acting in self actualization
Not going full hedonist and getting the best out of life
but taking on on identity just cause of a retarted culture war!

Pathetic!

>>15644224
Religion itself is cringe

>>15645529
Yes, we are part of All, our will Gods will, Gods will our will.

>>15645836
truth

>>15645836
Considering how many translations use the Septuagint, it is indeed fair to say they are "translations of translations"
Even the KJV which doesn't use the Septuagint for much of the translation still altered their translation to fit New Testament interpretation/revision, which is to say mistranslated Hebrew.

>>15645123
Source

>>15644224
Fpbp

>>15644224
fpbp

>>15645949
Source as pertaining to what?

>>15645938
Sheeeiit, I got called out.

>>15645983
>>15646007
>r*dditors trying to upvote their opinions
my precious 4channel...

>>15645938
I forget that the KJV is a revision of the Geneva, Coverdale and Tyndale translations.

>>15644213

Atheists are gay and retarded and usually lefties. Cope faggot

>>15646078
It's not just that of course, but the writers of the New Testament canon themselves were operating under translations. The Septuagint's mistranslated "young woman" is the reason why Jesus was born of a virgin, firmly attested to by the Gospels. They seemed to have many sources outside the Septuagint as well, but the controversy of this particular translation issue is very notable (go ahead and see the controversies involving Jerome, his correspondence with Augustine...)

>>15645918
God's will is not your will. You do not know the ways of God. You are free to do what He meant for you. Which is outlined by His commandments, and in fact is what is best for you.

>>15646106
Interesting. How accurate is John 3:16 in the KJV? I've been into the idea that Hell does not exist, or at least as punishment after death, because "shall not perish" suggests no afterlife, and even in Hell one will have eternal life (unless "life" in the passage is deliberately ambiguous). Also, if I'm not mistaken, Jews have no concept of hell. So where did this notion of Hell come about?

I've never read Revelations, if that's where all our understand of Hell comes from.

>>15646164
Looks like you're looking for an exegesis on that passage in the context of the rest of the Bible, which I can't really provide honestly. Translation wise it seems pretty solid, but I'm not a Biblical scholar. None of the translations I've seen differ in any substantial way on that passage.

You're right that there is the notion of no afterlife in Judaism, but there is also the notion of an afterlife as well. The Bible, The Torah, even individual books of the Bible (especially Old Testament) are not univocal. The various authors who contributed to Deuteronomy clearly didn't necessarily even agree with each other. When you talk of the concept of an afterlife, not only are you trying to parse the multitude of opinions are writings in one rough period of time, but you are bound to start trying to compare pre and post exilic Judaism against itself.

In short, the whole situation is a mess. I'd say a big part of the notion of Hell must come from post exilic contact with Zoroastrianism, and even further contact with Hellenic ideas. But I haven't done a full survey (or looked up online, for that matter) of Biblical references to Gehenna to even rule out a native Jewish understanding of "hell". Revelations is definitely responsible for the mainstream Christian idea of hell I encounter in real people in my daily life, though.

>>15646143
My will is will of God. I know the ways of God. I am his slave, his instrument. Which is outlined by first commandment: I am God.

>>15646393
>I know the ways of God
>I am God

>>15646515
yep.

>>15646536
You're not the creator, you're a troll ass blasphemer. Unworthy of anymore (you)s

>>15644213
Wow you fuck really are easily influenced aren't you

>>15646540
good riddance.

>>15644226
Why do Christianas want me to be baked? Not very nice of you, ask yourself what Jesus would do? Deeds > words, atheist can be better than you.

>>15646570
true. Jesus would explain how body and soul are related, and what fire means, what is sin and how to overcome it.

>>15646164
>>15646248
Isn't the case that heaven/hell being other dimensions was an idea from Plato that Christians adopted and that in original Christianity the dead stat dead dead until judgment day? When jesus mentioned hell the literal translation is gehenna which was a place in which people burned there trash. It was like a junkyard?

>>15644475
Deism is true enlightenment. Athiesm is turning on a light and then pretending darkness isn't real. It's as much of a security blanket at traditional religion is.

>>15646597
KEK. Some none-christian that cares for his community and is overal a good Person will go to hell for eternity, while some pedophile child killer will go to heaven when he accepts christ. What a perverted shitstain of a religion.

>>15644226
One day at a time.

>>15646749
I think you are alluding to another eschatology, that death is the end, but God will come and revive/resurrect the dead according to such and such rules and such and such a time. That is definitely the most common view given throughout the Bible IMO, and would be the position of Islam, and Maimonides (him arguing that texts/traditions treating Gehenna as a place of torment were socio-politically motivated, not true to the faith, and so Gehenna was simple annihilation). But again, I'm not confident in the entire textual history of Gehenna in the Bible, whether it had uses analogous to hell in pre-exilic times, to what extent supposedly old references are later interpolations, etc...

>>15646762
this sounds like some teenager who just learned the word "deism" a week ago
please tell us what your functional difference between deism and agnosticism/atheism is without sounding like you are coping

>>15646798
Accepting and enjoying world religions versus mocking them and being uninformed. Living in touch with mythology and respecting it as fundamental human truth.

>>15646042
Tiddies, presumably

>>15646808
you need to brush up on what "deism" and "atheism" mean, it appears you are wildly mistaken on what their definitions are

>>15646819
You don't even capitalize words so your opinion is useless.

>>15644226
Transhumanism, my bet foe eternity is real. Yours?

>>15646824
>deism means reading up on myths
this is literally retarded, you are literally retarded

>>15646834
You don't even have the self respect to do what you learned in kindergarten. This applys to everything in your life and you will never be sucessful because you have no self respect.

Very cringe

>>15646847
>applys
>sucessful
>criticizing other's typing
whew
couldn't help but notice you have no argument for your lack of knowledge too

>>15646809
OH, I was legitimately lost.
I think its from Friday the 13th Part 5

>>15644226
>thing would be bad if true therefore thing is not true

>>15648213
Why would you choose to believe BAD if you could believe GOOD?

>>15645160
Dare I say, this is the first based post by butterfly?

>>15645281
>Calvinism

>>15646826
>transhumanism
>real

>>15644224
It really is pretty cringe. They're just following the tradcath trend online. They don't even modify their behavior. They still spend all their time masturbating and complaining about "the niggers".

>>15644213
One day all the christ posters will be put in a gulag where they belong.

How shitty does your life have to be to join a cult as an adult?

>>15645011
>it’s another materialists think they are taking the red pill for assuming everything their limited human mind perceives is real and all that exists
I’m fucking laughing

>>15644224
I think it's cringe too, I think youre cringe, and all the people who are getting pissy and offended.

>>15646772
you moralize. you hate killers and pedos just because it is mainstream. you were born without hate, you were taught it. yet. 8 hours per day you don't give a shit about anything, you sleep. even buddha taught not to care. children, women, man, you are virtue signaling. it is women who give birth to pedos, it is children who become killers and politicians, corrupt medics and cops, stupid teacher and parasite lawyers. hitler was saint.

>>15649911
How awesome does your life have to be to found a cult as an adult?

>>15645300
>If a certain ruler imposed such a thing the change would be visible from manuscripts in other parts of the world and in other translations.
Unless Constantine burned all the manuscripts in 300AD after genociding the original Christians before sterilizing the text to serve him because it was becoming popular enough to challenge Rome.

Oh wait.

>>15644213
and we are supposed to think this is the new "thing" and it's very based or whatever lol

>>15644213
So TRAD and BASED

>>15645281
Graced and breadpilled

>>15644213
>be me
>born catholic
>immediately reject it even reject the first suggestion of santa claus(perhaps due to autism spectrum)
>study philosophy and religion and science obsessively for years
>give my birth given religion an honest attempt because I love my heritage
>realize quantum superposition refutes Rene Decartes' "I think therefore I am"
>dive deeper into paganism

Its time for full blown tribalism for me even if I have to do it alone, Ive already bought 1000+ acres

>>15645160
fuck off nigger

>>15650443
where tf did you buy 1000+ acres? are you rich or was it just a swamp in siberia?

>>15650443
aristotle refutes descartes with much less that quantum superposition
if youre gonna do paganism at least do Plotinus and not just ancestor worship LARP with nietzscheo-jungian justifications

>>15644228
>atheism is popular
Its 4% of the population

>>15644224
fpbp

>>15650014
Take your pills.

>>15651400
already took. that's why I don't care who fucks whom and how they fuck.

>>15644213
>Holy cringe