/lit/ - Literature

Take your meds schizo

The Very Hungry Caterpillar

>>15643062
You should look for help, specially if you are still in school if you don't get simple things like that. Ask your teachers or a psychologist.

>>15643062
Based. Thank you for writing what I've thought for a long time but never bothered posting.

I find it hilarious how someone could be so full of themselves that they find it easier to believe that all of the classic literary/philosophical works that they've read are just bereft of substance and beneath them than it is for them to consider that maybe the problem lies with them. like dude 141 IQ is high, but not that high, I know this because my IQ is 140 (properly done, not some bullshit internet test). shut the fuck up and be more humble you monstrous faggot. read everything you've already read until it finally clicks and then come back here. your cynicism is sickening and your hubris even more so. is this bait? probably, but in case it isn't (and because I know that some people actually have this mindset) I feel like I should tell you that you might be the biggest pseud I've ever seen on this god-forsaken website. go fuck yourself.

>>15643071
"Getting" literature is an invention of midwits with proud narcissistic ancestors

Finnegans Wake

>>15643095
Take your meds schizo

>>15643116
no

>>15643070
This, but very much unironically

>>15643095
Based

>>15643062
>>15643116

very Cringe

>>15643089

>>15643135
Take your meds schizo

This is what happens when a 41IQ gets into reading. Go back and watch the rick and morty movie.

>>15643062
142 IQ here.

You're a retard and reading is based.

You sound severely autistic my friend.

>>15643095
>You must learn something important/aesthetic from anyone (And because you're pseud i'm sure you'll find a way to "prove" this for your favor with irrefutable and anti-progress arguments that encompass a lot of things that don't concern only this arguments, probably everything)
>Uses seething buzzwords
>Do brainlet psychoanalysis that based on his strawman

>>15643095
Based

>>15643062
music copies prose, instrument copy voices. cinema is one reader's imagination instead of the endless possibilities that a book has to offer to an infinite number of readers. literature is the most free art form, thus the highest.

>>15643095
This.
>>15643175
>>15643062
OP, the only thing I can tell you is that you are mistaken. Try to engage substantively with what you read, and remember that if the conclusion to a work of philosophy or scholarship seems obvious, it is because the author has put painstaking effort into making it so. If done well, only two groups of people should be able to notice the effort that an author puts into clarifying his argument:
1. Those who have received specialized training, and thus know what that looks like.
2. Those who have the intelligence and experience, but not the training, to look for the signs of an argument being made.
If done poorly, everyone can see the effort put into writing. If done well, writing seems effortless. This applies to all human activity.

>>15643062
>All i've seen in the books i've read so far is 80% unnecessary shit
>Plot so far were meh and lose expectations due to length gap between every major shift, It was fine if that gap had interesting things in it but obviously not
>Poetry is the most pathetic shit i've read in my life
This is what happens when you read for the plot. LMAO.

>>15643395
The plot is 90% of the fiction, A fiction must first concern himself with physiological and story depth and only then approach philosophical dilemmas, If not the result is peak pseuds work, Which literature tend to sin in much more than other arts forms due the very structure of it that leave room for midwits to shine and because of the audience.

>im smart pls spoonfeed me you idiots
lolno

>>15643472
>"physiological depth" is plot
>story depth is plot
>anything apart from that is "philosophical dilemmas"
LMAO no wonder all poetry flew over your head.

If you want good plots read Agatha Christie.

>>15643062
Why not share what works you've read thus far, along with how you know your IQ is 141?

>>15643472
Brainlet take

>>15643062
My IQ is 142 and let me tell you: you're wrong.

>>15643472
>The plot is 90% of the fiction
Maybe complete garbage YA novels. Also what is your obsession with plot? It’s the most mundane and vapid thing to focus on

150 IQ fren here. You are an egotistical midwit who is in no position to criticize a medium like this.

>>15643062
>141 IQ
>plotfag
nah

>getting baited this easily

>>15643661
based
>>15643735
Take your meds schizo

>>15643472
lol no

>>15643472
>The plot is 90% of the fiction

>>15643472
>plot matters most in literature
Only Redditors and women think this way

>>15643062
i think you meant 14,1IQ, anon

>>15643062
>Pseud calls others pseuds

>>15643062
You can say this about anything, substitute movies for your home city Detroit and literature for going to the woods. 141 IQ retard who can't personally appreciate the beauty of something assumes it's some kind of objective fact.

119 brainlet here, I don't know WHAT we're talking about

>>15644263
hahahahaha

>>15643095
Based.

>>15644263
hehehehehehe

>>15643062
You need to take a good literature course with a good professor.

Of course, it may be that lit is just not your cup of tea.

>>15643062
>Claim to be big brain
>Doesn't realize 90% of anything made in any medium is going to be trash
How does it feel to be so smol brained OP? You deserve to be derided for being such a retard.

>>15643095
Unbelievably based

>The amount of seething angsty conformist teenagers in this thread

>>15643472
The themes of a book (or philosophical dilemmas) are the foundation of any good work. The themes dictate the obstacles (or lack thereof) that the character's will face (I.e plot) and how their reaction to them (I.e characterisation). The prose at the surface of the book and it's the only element that the reader really experiences fully. All of the other elements support and inform the prose. If an author neglects thematics then the foundation of the book is shaky and it will fall apart when thought about critically as it appears the book will support values that are wrong or inconsistent. Essentially, plot is just an expression of the theme.

>boasting about IQ
>having opinions worth considering
pick one

>>15644553
Are you confusing prose and theme as the same thing?
>>15643535
>>15643661
>>15643674
>>15643888
>>15644164
Not OP, and I don't agree with OP regardless, but to address all of the retards who probably think themes or "meaning" are the most important parts of a fictional work: The single most important aspect with which you should concern yourself when reading fictional literature is its beauty/enjoy-ability. Only brainlets try to look for some meaning or theme on the first reading of a fictional book. A book's value as a fictional work is first and foremost determined by its beauty - this includes prose, world building, ability to convey ideas/themes, subtlety, relationships, etc. One shouldn't concern themselves with what the ideas, themes, etc. trying to be conveyed are unless those realizations come naturally or on a second+ reading, and a fictional work isn't meant to be picked apart to see how it applies to real life. To do this ruins the enjoy-ability of the story unless - like I said - these things are presented naturally and effortlessly to the reader, and enjoy-ability is the #1 goal of a fictional work.

>>15644553
It's a view that i also hold. I'm just saying that the structure of books in opposite to other forms of art tend to give pseuds more fruits, A bad writer in my opinion is one that can't combine all the elements and make it feel natural, for example portraying your theme by dialogue and not actions for me is lazy, uncreative and ruins the plot. I seeth at the sight of the 70 previous pages i read of nothing but dialogue with honestly 95% of the times badly written and unconvincing philosophy. Also i've noticed that even supposedly legendary writers tend to ramble garbage, and a lot, That's a thing i don't see with the masters of other forms of art, Literature became a literal work for me, Finding a little good things in a pile of trash.

So may you be kind like this >>15643095 anon and recommend me intelligent precise writers? Ones that write their novels almost as compressed as screenplays while retaining the good qualities of novels? So far the people in this thread are busy strawmanning my arguments.

you all fell for the most retarded bait I have ever seen. sage

>>15644770
>stating your sage
nice job getting banned newfag

>>15643062

So in other words

>Tl:dr Fiction is cope

>>15643062
Just read the best: Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Tolstool. Maybe background reading on aesthetics might help you autism your way into an appreciation of art for its contribution to your health rather than your big ol brains.

>>15643062

>>15643070
spbp

>>15643062
>>15643089
>>15643140
s a m e f a g

>>15645110
cope

>141 IQ
>pepe

This guy thinks he has a 141 IQ but he doesn’t even know how to read.

>>15643062
>only 141

>>15643062
You criticize intellectual circle-jerking yet you post your IQ to justify your opinions.

>>15643062
>Yukio Mishima (start with The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea)
>Flashman Series
>Plato (specifically The Republic)
>Dostoyevsky (specifically The Brothers Karamazov)
>Bronze Age Mindset
>Storm of Steel
>The Iliad
>Decline of the West
>Guenon
>Evola

>>15646569
>The brother karamazov

Dropped. That's one of the books i'm talking about, It was decent in times and i can see how influental it was but it didn't say something i haven't already heard/thought and the faggot could've minimized the entire work to 400 pages. Also weak and uncreative last chapter that's dismissive of the reader intelligence.

>>15643303

This is one thing I realized. Most good writing looks effortless, of course, then of you look at galley pages or explore the themes then you do see why it looks effortless.

But some people just write effortlessly without even trying. Like Quine or Roberto Bolano or Kafka. Even their half finished works look tonally perfect.

But then again, my IQ is only around 100 and I'm glad I came so far.

>>15643062
Sure define this all metaphysically and develop a foundation of logic in math, linguistics etc

>>15647200
It sounds like you're an impatient kid who wants sparks to fly for him. Yes you have to understand the points abstractly or you're going to only go so far

>>15647623
lol obviously made by bottom feeder ethicists who know their field is the embarrassment of philosophy

>>15647646
I understood the themes fairly well. I want things fast if the conclusion already made and understood, I've no problem with slow paced things if they keep mystery to it (Not necessarily in plot sense) but i just can't be bothered with teacher kind of writing for a thing i already understood, Dostoevsky especially sin in this one consistently.

Borges so far is the only one i've read which used this mystery in a good way, Granted the fact it's a short stories help him tremendously (And i still stand by my claim that short stories are superior) and the fact i'm fairly "beginner" hence asked for something more specific in my thread.

>>15647757
If you’re only concerned with the conclusion or message then you shouldn’t read. Seriously, you’ll never understand anything you read beyond being able to summarize its themes/ideas if you approach books this way. If you’re 10 pages into a book and already know what it’s trying to say then you should find the book to be more enjoyable, not less.

I'm of the conclusion that literature are for fags and women. I only come here on occasion for the refreshing dose of seething liberal tears.

>>15643062
most IQ tests are low in g-loading, so they don't matter, dumb faggot.

Holy shit I didn't expect so many seething replies to this. OP didn't even say what literature they read, but everyone jumps on their random assertion of IQ and tries to one up them.

>>15647992
this