/lit/ - Literature

Oh, this is the “confess you’re sin” thread.

I don't enjoy classical music either. Literature is much more stimulating in comparison.

>>15615500
I like Bach and Mozart but also like hip-hop. Once you become more detached from the material plane you will see the light and beauty of the golden sounds of classical music. Try listening high?

>>15615500
>>15615665
Music is for subhumans which is why Greeks had flutes and Romans probably only had drums, and that was for hyping up their captured germanic or ethiopian slave soldiers to fight for them (and then kill themselves).

I like music but don't listen to it often. I rarely find it stimulating enough by itself, unless i'm really in the mood and dislike listening to it while doing other things.

Philistines.

Listen to the romantics

Start with Trout Mask Replica

>>15615500
>the current state of /lit/

>>15615500
https://youtu.be/j5u1R-OzeSs
Have you listened or read to people explaining it?

>>15615500

I agree to agree with you, especially on the boring and hollow part. It seems most artist of the time were more obsessed with quantity than quality when it came to long pieces, which is why shorter compositions of the time were so impactful and gorgeous pieces of art

Classical music lives off the prestige it had back in times where only the rich snobs could afford to experience it. In the present, the illusion is maintained by over-analizing and imagining huge depths that probably never had. Don't get me wrong, classical music is great, but for most, it's just a way to brag or seem intellectual.

>>15615665
music is profoundly stimulating in the way it can so strongly influence emotions. literature is less directly tuned into your mood but possibly more consciously stimulating to the intellect and to some extent can stimulate all of the senses in a backward direction through description.

>>15615500
I'm reading Hamilton's Mythology and I'm very afraid that the other Greeks aren't going to interest me nearly as much because they aren't capeshit-esque

>>15615500
Listen to this. It will change your mind. The most beautiful piece ever composed.

https://youtu.be/X5Y9_GnQDqo

I've been listening to satie and debussy over the last few days as i do chores and read. comfy vibes here. a patrician can respect and value the arts as a whole.

>>15615500
Classical music clicked for me when I realized it was much more of a start to finish thing rather than an in the moment one. It's enjoyable in the same capacity a well maintained riff is, or a BOOK because this is a LITERATURE BOARD you DOOF

>>15615500
Classical music is usually meant to be listened to actively rather than passively, which makes it, in my opinion, a poor companion to reading except for pretentious appearances. But I used to think the same as you (minus the rap, never been a fan) until I found the right pieces. I don't love classical as a genre, but I'd recommend at least listening to Tchaikovsky and Vivaldi because they're iconic and fun. 1812 Overture is great, and the Four Seasons can be peaceful as well as exciting.

>>15615500
If you didn't grow up listening to classical music the qualities that people value in it will be as foreign to you any other foreign musical tradition. You probably don't particularly like african pygmy music either, though you might if you'd grown up in a culture which valued and regularly exposed you to that kind of music. The qualities of any style of music must be learned to be appreciated, either explicitly, through education (learning to play an instrument, to compose, etc.), or naturally, through exposure. If you want to get into classical music, my recommendation is to give the works of Chopin, Mendelssohn, Liszt, and other mid-romantics a try, as I think their music is most able to be enjoyed by 'modern,' non-classical ears. My personal favorite composers are Bach, Brahms and Mahler, but I wasn't able to get into the first two very much until I started learning to play their keyboard works, which I find gives one a huge amount of insight into a composer, even when listening to other pieces by them you haven't learned.

Maybe you simply haven't found what really ticks you, op.
I was exactly like that until I found Beethoven's piano sonatas. I still vividly remember when I first heard Les adieux, it blew me away so hard I couldn't stop listening to Beethoven for weeks. I cried when I listened to the 7th. From then on I completely changed my view on classical music and moved to other lesser know authors that I really like now, more contemporary and experimental.

>>15615500
Classical music is good to play in the background while you're reading or studying or even browsing the internet, just to feel less alone. It can be surprisingly emotional and compelling but as modern people we absolutely don't have the attention span required to listen to it like you would a rap song.

>>15615842
This is fucking interesting
>>15615500
I’ve always wanted to and I hold all music of all kinds accountable to the same level, but other than some specifics or Stravinsky or other 10th century minimalist stuff I generally don’t get super into classical, though hopefully I will at some point. Luckily music is easy to listen to.

>>15615500
Not even Chopin?
I feel like everyone can appreciate Chopin...

>>15616351
Based, check out Ravel, especially miroirs and jea deaux

>>15615500
people with open heart chakra enjoy any music, because they can perceive it the way the composer did it. they understand any emotion, accept it.

if you don't enjoy Vivaldi, AC/DC, Napalm Death it means you are emotionally castrated, you are in cave. Smoke weed, fuck morality, stop larping.

>>15616270
That's my impression of it too. It definitely is very nice to hear and I do understand and appreciate each classical composer's work that I do listen to, but only when you compare it to popular music does it really seem as amazing and utterly life-changing as some people make it out to be. I'm not shitting on the people that like it so much as I don't get why they like it so much. The only classical composer that I think had that effect of giving me that feeling is Debussy. For the most part I listen to a lot of ambient musicians like Rei Harakami, Susumu Yokota, Enigma and Hiroshi Yoshimura whenever I'm studying.

You're probably not listening to the right classical. I don't get on with pompous aristocratic sounding classical pieces, but I love performances such as Schubert's Die Stadt or Sibelius violin concerto. Very moving, dark and atmospheric classical is the best classical.

>>15615515
>tfw when I AM sin

>>15617208
>If you don't enjoy the things you don't like you're emotionally castrated, you're in a cave. Smoke weed.

I would love to stab you in the face. You sound 14. Gtfo this board.

>>15617255
>Sibelius violin concerto
Who's your favorite performer of this piece my brother?

>>15617262
>if you don't enjoy the things I like*

Damn typo.

>>15617263
Hilary Hahn, mistress of violin. Check out this video on Youtube: "Sibelius : Concerto pour violon (Hilary Hahn)". It gives me goosebumps all the time.

>>15617285
For me it's Vengerov or Heifetz.

Does anyone remember this really old meme from maybe 5-10 years ago where it was some Facebook post or something of this really pretentious looking guy making a smug expression next to a stack of books, and then someone commented about music, and then the guy made this extremely pretentious rant basically in the same vein as OP? It began "I have always considered music to be the most entry level of the arts". Please, I'm trying to find it anywhere but I can't

>>15615500
You legitimately have bad taste if you think that. Music is the highest of all art forms.
https://youtu.be/ZkP3XVkLxL4
Listen to this. Listen to the force and vitality. There is not a single superfluous note. Pay attention to how well constructed it is - how first he introduces the bass line, and then varies it, and then the main theme, and all the many variations they go through, yet still being recognizable. Listen to all of the subtle modulations and all of the details in the orchestration, phrasing, dynamics, and everything else. Hear how the final outburst of Prestissimo at the end mirrors the opening of the movement. Hear all the fugal sections, and their inversions. There is NOTHING, and I mean absolutely NOTHING in all the world of art that even comes close to what Beethoven achieved. Beethoven's music is as raw and powerful as it is humanly possible for artistic expression to be. Sistine Chapel? David? War and Peace? Hamlet? Critique of Pure Reason? Apology? Forget it. None of them hold a candle to Beethoven. Not a single one of them even come close. Beethoven is out of this world, completely. Beethoven is the greatest artist who ever lived.
>>15615665
>>15615694
>>15616217
>>15616270
>>15616634
Wrong. You know absolutely nothing of music. Either educate yourself or stop posting.

>>15617299
Good choices. I've seen them play several other pieces. Very masterful.

>>15617316
I agree with you, my friend, but what do you expect? You're on a literature board. It's folly.

>>15617242
>whenever I'm studying
You have shit opinions on music because you treat music as audial wallpaper, a background soundtrack to the dull drudgery that is your life. If you used great novels as paperweights or just listened to audiobooks "in the background" (if you don't already) you'd have shit opinions on literature too. Music demands active, attentive listening. If you don't have the capacity for that then refrain from commenting on music, because you will never be able to say anything of value.

>>15615500
I’ve been meaning to read Lolita recently, but I’m a tad daunted by buying the book in person due to the books nature. I might just order it off Amazon at this point.

>>15617356
I'm not going to read all that bullshit about some autist sperging that I dare have a different opinion than him. Just kill yourself or act like a fucking adult. No one gives a shit about your stupid uninformed prudish takes on topics that are ultimately a matter of taste since I didn't even insinuate they weren't beautiful, you vile little cunt.

>>15617354
Music is the most misunderstood and misused art because as primates we are visual creatures and because music is pure sound people will very often just automatically relegate music as "background noise" and not give it the attention it needs to fully appreciate it. And because most people have listened mostly to songs, in which the lyrics dictate the course of the piece and the music is just a vehicle through which to deliver the lyrics, listening to purely instrumental music that isn't a soundtrack to something requires a different mode of listening they are not used to. If comparing it to a book, the melodies are the characters. This is why I recommend following along with the sheet music while listening or watching animations of the music, ad I linked above.

>>15617406
Indeed. I also found that by listening to people who come from a music background speaking about classical pieces, I realise I knew next to nothing about what to listen for and how to listen. Now I know a little better. And in general, even though I love literature and I'm a writer myself, music is the highest form of all creation. I regular tear up to music. I have a friend that doesn't like most music or feels indifferent to it and I'm genuinely sad for him.

>>15617394
>prudish
Do you even know what this word means? You are a retard and nothing you say is worth taking seriously. You getting angry and defensive is proof of this.

>>15617429
Says the fucking autist that's having a tard rage moment because I don't agree with his tastes in music. Again, kill yourself. Also, no shit a person is going to respond angrily when you insult them over something so meaningless and petty. Anyone that isn't a knuckle-dragging autistic knows this.

>>15617461
You haven't answered my question. Do you know what prudish actually means?

Can you two stop bickering please?

>>15617477
Yeah, I admit I should have used the words pretentious or snobbish to describe you since being a prude has more to do being exceedingly "holier than thou" usually in regards to sex. But bad word usage aside, I'm still mean exactly what I said and I stand by it. Now fuck off.

>>15617461
>You: I don't really get why people like certain music. Btw I just use it as background noise and don't really pay attention to it.
>Me: If you don't pay attention to something, obviously you won't understand it. Music is no different than anything else and requires concentrated effort to understand and appreciate.
>You: REEEEE WHAT THE FUCK YOU FUCKING AUTIST THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION BRO FUCKING KILL YOURSELF NO I'M NOT MAD YOU'RE MAD

>>15617520
>You have shit opinions on music because you treat music as audial wallpaper, a background soundtrack to the dull drudgery that is your life. If you used great novels as paperweights or just listened to audiobooks "in the background" (if you don't already) you'd have shit opinions on literature too. Music demands active, attentive listening. If you don't have the capacity for that then refrain from commenting on music, because you will never be able to say anything of value.

This totally isn't a passive-aggressive post made by an autistic tat cares too much about someone's taste in music. This is perfectly reasonable and I'm the one overreacting.

Fuck off. This is a two person conversation. I don't need to bother with any more tards.

Both of you are retarded. The more times you reply, the more retarded you get. If either of you wants to win, stop replying.

>>15615500
>>15615665
>>15615694
oh god, fucking plebs

>>15617562
>caring about winning
>caring about the precession of signs of an event rather than the event itself
>implying these aren’t degraded forms

>>15617316
I agree but you sound like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E62iA6KCIQ

>>15615500
I don't think you can be blamed for not enjoying classical music as a category, it is varied. But one day there will come a piece that hits close to home and which moves you, without the need for any lyrics or contexts. For me it's Waltz No 2 by Shostakovich. I found it randomly, and I never related to anything more. The way the main motif swings against the background rhythm reminded me of waddling dumbfounded through the streets of my university town, after one of many disappointing moments. The motif sounds pitiful, embarrassed, aware of its own foolishness and desperate for some consolation. It makes me feel like no matter how stupid a mistake I make, at least I'm not the only idiot on earth who makes mistakes.

I don't think such a deeply emotional connection can be made with a lyrical song. Complex music is hard to relate to but when you do, its deep. Keep searching and you will find or better yet it will come to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHW--sqfBZc

>>15615500
I feel the same towards classical music, but I think I’ve been building up a “tolerance” towards it as of late. Firstly, my regular musical tastes have shifted from hard pop to more indie, instrumental music, which allows me to appreciate that more. And further, when I read, I use piano music as background noise. I want to reach a point where I eventually have the tolerance and appreciation for classic music but I’m just not there. I’m half certain that if I actually stuck to the viola and the orchestra in general as a kid I would be in a much different situation, but alas young me was a fuck up adhd autist who couldn’t commit to anything for shit. I’m only slightly better now, not going to lie.

>>15615500
Music's a much more detached form of literature I find, if you don't have genuine emotions attached to memories of listening to certain genres then they just aren't for you. Classical music on the other hand is much more contextual and is definitely better to listen to when hearing more about the composers past and reading their interpretation of the score, allowing it to in turn influence your own.
But that's just the faggoty art snob in me talking.

>>15617613
>I agree but you sound like this
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E62iA6KCIQ
i'd love an early life check on this guy

>>15617316
Boring. Anyone can spout the same pretentious speech about their respective art, enjoy whatever the fuck you like and don't get pretentious about it.

OP listen to jazz instead. It's really just chord spam from junkies who were too lazy to actually learn real compositions, but some rich philanthropists consider it "American Classical", so you can still feel high brow without being bored to do death.

>>15615500
I didn't get it until i started developing a real appreciation for Christianity. Now i feel, if God directly spoke to us, that's what it would sound like. Sometimes it really overwhelms me with emotion. It sounds like everything that is beautiful and perfect in the world.

This is a modern piece that made me tear up
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ibwxzxER_pY

>>15618815
Pseud. Go back to /mu/ to wank over your out-of-tune guitar screechers.

I have all of Percy Jackson books and spinoffs. Twice.

>>15617316

>Pling plongs in a certain order make my peepee feel good

Are musicfags even human?

>>15615500
Same, but I don't feel bad for it, I'm not supposed to know everything under the sun. If someones teaches me, good, but I'm not going to pretend that I care to the point of entering in musical literature

>>15615500
>>15615665
>>15615694
Embarrassing. Instrumental art music is the peak of art and you midwits absolutely don't get it.

>>15617406
based

Take the Divine Ecstasypill.

>>15617613
I have no taste in music at all. I listen to Nujabes and lofi. While your music here might be objectively good, i can't imagine any other background for it besides a Mr. Bean or Harry Potter movie. It sounds like it's meant to be the background to a joke. I don't think this is my fault for having these associations burned into me since my youth. Music as a medium has been corrupted much more than painting or literature. At least one can avoid having his brain poisoned by today's bad literature, but bad music is everywhere.

>>15615705
same

Only real way to consume music is by playing it yourself, passively listening is for subhuman trash.

>>15620425
>consume

>>15620463
go back to r*ddit, vile basedposter

>>15620474
>basedposter
Thanks anon

>>15620415
Take LSD and listen to other types of music and you'll see its beauty

>>15615682
Mozart is shit larping pleb

I developed a deeper appreciation for it after I started playing it in my earbuds while I read. Mozart and Bach (esp. Yo-Yo Ma’s Bach) are my favorites. Sure rap is fun, but when it comes to mental stimulation of thoughts and raw emotion classical and piano jazz do it for me. Some older country too.

I think you develop a taste for classical music by thinking with it in the background, then you begin to notice which notes have differing effects on you and develop preferences.

It requires patience to really appreciate I think, it’s not like EDM where the emotional meaning is given to you without any effort in something like a bass drop. You have to search for it for yourself, recognizing classical is more reflective than most other genres. By that I mean you learn its effects/augmentation on your own reflection. Listening to classical music can be like looking into a mirror with differing effects (convex, concave, etc.) but for your mind.

>>15621420

Not OP but I don't find classical music enjoyable on LSD at all. I think you benefit being normally conscious listening to classical more.

>>15617262
I would love to stab you in the face. You sound 14. Gtfo this board.

>>15615500
Unironically listen to Wagner.

>>15615500
Listen to Bach and tell us you don't feel anything

>>15615500
Because music really captures a collective spirit so much better unlike literature. Folk songs, traditional musical instruments, hell even shitty pop songs are more enjoyable because there is the feeling of getting absorbed into the music's origin culture. Because music dearly needs association with a thing outside the piece. Western classical music are highly individualistic; which is why, by linking the piece to personal feelings western composers neglected what music does best, representing the collective.

>>15621420
Best thing I listened to on LSD was the Ironman album by Ghostface and that was when it was just released. I wandered off into the night with my new Ghostface tape in my Sony Walkman and listened to the whole shit front to back.

>>15621711
Gross. You ruined the acid

>>15621721
I had this sick Tommy Hilfiger jacket that winter.

Just listen to how the beat almost imperceptably slows towards the end of the first track, on LSD that shit is like woaaah and then the next track comes in with that weird unharmonious twanging. The whole shit like a 70s blaxpoitation flick, but on a VHS cassette that melted after being left in the backseat of a car on a sunny day.

Out of the 400 books that I've read, including many classics, this is still my favorite book. I would unironically put it up there with Anna Karenina in terms of entertainment value. It's very creative while at the same time being muted. At first glance it might seem like some generic fantasy it does some cool things.

>>15615500
I feel you, but be honest. Do you dislike this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0nZII

>>15618903
Very nice music

Listen to this and tell me you don't feel like this painting.
https://youtu.be/D-_wqx76mpc?list=TLPQMTYwNjIwMjCKPec5ii4SkA&t=1336

>>15615500
>I can read Hegel and Homer while blasting Rap music, but not classical.
do people really listen to music while reading?

>all these Music haters in this thread
You guys must be american, because I’m too white to understand your irrational behavior

>>15615822
This

>>15621489
Fucking trash take

>>15615500
The guy who invented the word 'philosophy' felt that everything was music. You have to appreciate it even if only for that reason.

>>15621575
Cringe taste

>>15617262
>fell for the bait

I've always been interested in Beethoven. Anyone know of a book for non-musicians to understand his life and his music? >>15617316 Can you help?

>>15615842
Amazing. I want to see more like this.

>>15615500
I’m a classical musician, but it took me years to be able to “hear”, classical music

You have to actually train and mature your ear to be able to understand what you’re listening to. Also, there’s a lot of bad classical music. Since there’s almost 800 years of it, and each composer wrote 300+ pieces, you have to dig around for the good stuff

An example is that I told my music teacher that I found bach very boring. He replied “well, Bach wrote almost 1200 pieces. How many have you heard? 5? I suggest you go back and listen to more”. Today bach is my favorite composer and I listen to him every day

Do not give up on classical music. It is the brother of classical literature, religion and philosophy

>>15619477
>Scribble scrabble in a certain order make my peepee feel good
>Are literaturefags even human?

>>15623401
Beethoven: The Man Revealed by John Suchet is a good biography that avoids getting too technical when talking about the music.
There is also Beethoven: The Man and Artist: as Revealed in His Own Words, which is, as the title implies, mainly a collection of quotes by Beethoven himself. This is available online at Project Gutenberg.
If you know how to read sheet music a bit or are more interested in a book talking about his music specifically, there is Beethoven and His Nine Symphonies by George Grove. This is available online at IMSLP.

*invents swing music*
https://youtu.be/uQMCfqFr4XA

>>15618676
https://youtu.be/0eqDzMxQjx0
Show me a poem that matches the profundity of the G major chords at 17:32

>>15624140
first time I heard that i was in the car with the radio on and I started crying.

Here is another amazing moment. Probably my favorite.
https://youtu.be/8JZGiY--2LM?t=945

>>15624278
The popular image of Beethoven is of angry and dramatic but goddamn he could be so fucking beautiful and tender at times

>>15616440
I don’t think any music should be listened to passively, with the exception of falling asleep to something, which I wouldn’t consider passive in the first place, but others might.

>>15615500
Classical is the greatest art form of the West. Don’t feel bad about not getting it. Just keep listening to and reading about it and you’ll grow to love it. Try this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkZvsp62iU

Imagine going to a concert to listen to classical music with your body still, call me a pleb if you want, but this disgusts me. I prefer silence.

This is a great indicator of /lit/'s quality. A few years ago you'd find top-tier discussion of classical around here. And now, among all these people who deny any value to classical music (music which most of the classic writers were listening to), it is welcome to see people at least appreciating Vivaldi and Shosta's Waltz...

>>15617313
He was making Bloom-face
yeah, it was great, I probably have it somewhere in my downlands folder but it's not worth digging through it

>>15620415
That's true, the association of classical with the silliness of popular film is quite common, but after a while you can completely cut off that connection, and focus on the music itself.
I recently came across some terrific flamenco music. I barely even thought of its sound, after a minute I was lost in its pure intricacies, only afterwards remembering how it might sound from the "outside", only noticing its stereotypical "spanish" harmonies and timbres and finding it all silly. It's not the way to listen to music, though, one has to (and can) find his home within it.

>>15625198
Sadly, classical isn't very suitable for twerking, rhythm-wise.

>>15615500
Do you find YA novels to be more "fun" as well? Classical music is about development. If you've ever complained about character development in a novel then you should be able to understand why so many people in this thread are considered to be human garbage.

I have no interest anymore in the circular motion of reading the same books that this board champions anymore. I've read the greeks; I've read joyce, the Russians, Faulkner, various French writers; I've read the pomo guys like pynchon and delillo. Now I just wanna read shit nobody here talks about, whether its obscure 20th century novels, genre fiction (horror and comedy mostly), or the beats

>>15625268
Good on ya dude. You really should have been doing that the whole time. /lit/ has an incredibly narrow focus, and while many of the books are good, there is so much more out there that is worth reading.

Keeping up the musical confessions, the only live music I ever went to was a Björk concert, and the current piece of music I have stuck in my head is from the video game Mass Effect 3.

My literary confession is that I don't think there's anything wrong with translations. I've only read L'Etranger in English translation but I could fully discuss it with my mother who's only read the original French. Several ancient texts only survive in translations, without the efforts of ancient translators and the interest in spreading texts to a wider audience we'd be much poorer in historical terms. Think of the Chinese translations of Mahayana sutras, Greek translations of parabiblical writings like the Wisdom of Ben Sira, Ethiopian translations of the book of Enoch and book of Jubilees. Translation is incredibly important for literature.

I wish I could be a NEET for life and have time to understand all arts and perfect my habilities with the guitar. I feel a chronical hurry in everything I do.

>>15625342
>My literary confession is that I don't think there's anything wrong with translations
That's not a confession, that's a fact. Translations have been absolutely essential for the history of lit, and any competent translation will not deform the meaning to any notable degree, unless you're a scholar doing a microstylistic analysis.

>>15615500
you sound very shallow, trying to enjoy art for the sake of it being art. Let it go and you feel more free. Perhaps once you give up your pretentiousness, you'll properly enjoy art and music.

>>15615694
The Homeric Epics were meant to be recited within music companion, the Greek Tragedy developed from dances, singing and music. I don't know what are you on about but the Greeks weren't absent of Music.

>>15625387
>you sound very shallow, trying to enjoy art for the sake of it being art.
And you have the nerve to call somebody else shallow.

>>15615500
I hate Shakespeare. I find his language grating and obtuse; his characters, ridiculous; his plots, boring; his emotions, melodramatic.

My favorite book of all time is Moby Dick, which I know was greatly influenced by Shakespeare's works but while I find Melville's prose transcendent, Shakespeare's verse just seems garish and overwritten. I want to like Shakespeare, I want to appreciate him, but I just can't. Where others see great beauty and poetic expression, I see a cancerous overgrowth of flowery language.

>>15625408
T-Tolstoy?

>>15625268
congrats for surpassing the samefag discussions of the board, now maybe you can leave this shithole for good

>>15621604
NPC don't feel anything. They larp feelings.

>>15615500
but you are not you, you don't own yourself and don't know yourself.

>>15625408
Then you have much to learn from Shakespeare

>>15624140
yo I almost cried wtf
shits good

>>15615500
Just listen to music you enjoy and stop pretending to be an intellectual.

>>15620415
a good intro to classical music for me was film music. you'll find that a lot of film music is inspired by classical composers and sometimes directly copied classical music. check out what inspired star wars' music.

>>15624079
Bach has him beat a a hundred and however many years. Fugue 2:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OUfBDIGhw

/mu/ here
BAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

>I listen to "classical music"

>>15625404
>And you have the nerve to call somebody else shallow.
my point didn't come across. Enjoying art for the purity of it is great, and I guess enjoying it because it's well recognised is also good. But enjoying it to fit into the conversations of your friends is what I mean by shallow.

You're probably right saying that I'm also shallow. There are many things I try to enjoy because they're supposed to be enjoyed by "intellectuals" and what not.

>>15625579
Seconded AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>15617316
God in heaven, I'm 28 and thanks to my poorly educated parents I never had an instrument and they never pushed me to pursue anything music related.

Knowing my character and looking at that video, I'd drive myself crazy chasing the timing. I would end up in front of a piano, with gray hair, stuttering some incomprehensible things while playing only a few notes, showcasing only a glimpse of my long past glory.

>>15615500
There are a lot of things you don't understand, feelings you never felt. You are faggot in moms safe space, house pet.

>>15624079
Anon I did not listen to your piece before I posted the Bach fugue. It’s remarkable

You guys are a bad enough at pretending you know about books. Please read something written in the last 100 years that you didn’t learn about in school.

>>15625597
https://youtu.be/TKqFl6Tb4bw
This was written in 1818, yet I am wholly convinced you could play it in some jazz or blues bar in the 1920s and no one would think it was out of place

>>15615500
I think the best way to solve problems is to stop people from breeding so much

>>15615500
Kay that's not really a confession. I dunno, I wish I could hold my own strength and not lash out at everything so much.

>>15625088
Kleiber is perfection. Surpassed perhaps only by Furtwangler.

>>15625622
>I am wholly convinced you could play it in some jazz or blues bar in the 1920s and no one would think it was out of place
Maybe if you play that in a bar for deaf people.

>>15625686
Brainlet

>>15615500
Classical music is a language that you need to learn to appreciate and it requires active listening.

The "Inside The Score" youtube channel has a lot of videos on how to listen to classical music if you want to learn.
For example this one about motifs and how they're used in classical music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SkqX8vo2s

This one explains the Sonata form which was THE form during the Classical period (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzHS7QL-B-c

And this one talks about the Fugue which was common during the Baroque period (Bach wrote a LOT of fugues):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG4SKgCpppE

>>15625717
You are the brainlet for thinking that sounds like jazz. You either don't actually listen to jazz, don't actually listen to classical, or both.

>>15625566
100 years? try 800.
https://youtu.be/EMyWnCf2Anc

/mu/ here

This Thread is absolutely pathetic

How can people who know nothing about classical can say that Beethoven or Bach or whatever classic composer is the best """""musician""""" of all time? You guys have heard nothing, these guys aren't better than Pop music or Top 40 bullshit from nowadays, it is music for the smoothiest of brains who are only pleasently suprised by catchy melodies, kek. Don't you dare tell me you know something about music as long as you haven't heard about John Cage, Györgi Ligeti, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xennakis, Mauricio Kagel, Luc Ferrari or finally, a very personal favorite of mine and probably the best musician of all time, Horațiu Rădulescu. Rădulescu truly is the mastermind of music, no one even come close to him and his scarcely crafted String composition, it is the most beautiful yet heart wrenching music that can possibly be achieved, his composition are lightyears away of anything these worshipped hacks this board, his composition despite only being composed of a SINGLE instrument is the best thing human can possibly achieved, his spiritual approach, his ghostly melodies are truly challenging and the purest form of art, his dedication to completly abbolish the phrygian scale on a greater meaning and the fact that he can actually achieve it it simply outstanding. It is the absolute epitome of textures in modern music, the absolute end to monophony, polyphony and heterophony to create music based on a new more impressive scale, a whole new spectra.

Im posting this here for you plebs to hear what real music sounds like but it's not like you plebs could comprehend it anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aijNDLBsgyE

>>15625763
Rădulescu is just diet Xenakis. You just got pleb filtered.

>>15625763
during finals week at my school all the musicologists would gather the music library and color in children's coloring books

>>15617316
How can you compare muh sounds to the likes of Homer, Virgil or Dostoevsky. I appreciate that "muh sounds" does not do it justice, but ultimately that is all that they are, to put it simply, patterns of sound which for some reason produce an involuntary flood of emotion, seemingly without cause. I think there's definitely a vast chasm between the likes of this and the "art" of literature, one has its emotional responses based off of profound characteristics of living and probe into some of the most pertinent aspects of existence - whilst the other, no matter how beautiful and precise, is just an arrangement (even if masterfully arranged and complex) of sounds, which we have no idea why thy inspire such emotion in us, but it's blind emotion and without any serious substance or value.

>>15625763
A great soulseek search result or blog mediafire rapidshare zip rar archive that will be missed but never forgotten.

>>15625782
Xenakis is too flashy and out there, Rădulescu truly gets to the heart of music itself, I like both anyway

>>15625763
terrible bait

>>15625791
>Xenakis is too flashy and out there
What? Have you even listened to Xenakis?

>>15625763
>performers "play" 4'33"
>fart loudly the whole time

>>15625763
>/mu/ here
Stopped reading there

>>15625788
And literature isn't just patterns of signs referring to things that literally do not exist. It doesn't probe the problems of existence because it is literally not real.

Why not just post this confess meme in /write what's on your mind/? Do you really need a separate thread?

>>15625763
Rădulescu still relies too heavily on post-african repetitions for me

whitearmor is modern day chopin
never liked classical music.. listened to whitearmor tracks for a couple years. listen to Pygmalion daily now

>>15625763
Schizo-core music isn't good music. Not even Scriabin is this edgy. Fuck off weirdo.

>>15625835
In regards to fiction, perhaps, although even then just because an event didn't take place in the literal sense it doesn't mean you can't use such a narrative as a medium to explore aspects of conscious existence - if I continue to use TBK as an example then you can see Dosteovsky's internal conflict regarding his very faith with the incarnation of sensualism, cold atheist rationality and impassioned faith naturally in the three brothers, or in such scenes as the Devil's visit to Ivan etc.
Even then, literature extends beyond fiction and if you're looking for a direct confrontation of the very "problems of existence" without any emotional context then you can obviously find it in works of philosophy and the such. I think it shouldn't need to be said that while literature is also technically just a combination of muh letters and words, but it's a form of intelligent and precise communication while music, although unexplainable beautiful and emotion-inspiring, is imprecise and from an artistic perspective can't hope to express the depths that works of literature can and do

want to appreciate classical music?
read some wittgenstein
you will start digging brahms in no time

>>15625914
>I think it shouldn't need to be said that while literature is also technically just a combination of muh letters and words, but it's a form of intelligent and precise communication while music, although unexplainable beautiful and emotion-inspiring, is imprecise and from an artistic perspective can't hope to express the depths that works of literature can and do
that's because music is what music expresses you tard

>>15625763
Xenakis is the better composer but each is aiming for different things. Radulescu was working within a tradition inspired by Xenakis and took it a different route, kind of carrying the torch. While Xenakis' compositions are more tight, complex, or conceptually sound, Radulescu's are a lot more raw or visceral. You can also hear a more Romanian touch in his works. So it might be that in terms of the structure of their work that Radulescu is the "diet" Xenakis, but he definitely puts a spin on the music and takes it in an interesting direction. And he's better than whatever other serial/spectral music we have going on now.
>>15625791
Do you mean like in the public eye? Do you think he's "showing off" in his music? Is he too ambitious? If anything, Radulescu would be the flashy one, if we're talking about the sound of the music.

I am sex, the God devined.

>other boards discussing music

>>15625946
whoops, first part was meant for >>15625782

>>15625934
>you retard that's because music expresses music

i listen exclusively to harsh noise and memphis rap, nothing else satisfies me

>>15625758
The chromaticism is, at times, enough to make it superficially resemble jazz enough to blend in. Obviously on a deeper look it's not jazz at all, but no one would sit there actively listening going "does this follow all the stylistic elements of jazz?"
That's what I was getting at.

>>15625946
Stockhausen is better than both

I don't enjoy any music at all.
Musical instruments are haram.

>>15615500
I know i sound a pretentious fag but its because classical music (bach, mozart, etc.) is complex. Similar to how in literature one must begin with simple works to dive into more complex works same goes for music. Try listening to minimalism/modern classical music (extremely easy to understand and extremely enjoyable to people who dont listen to classical) and go backwards.

>>15625972
>The chromaticism is, at times, enough to make it superficially resemble jazz enough to blend in.
Not in theh slightest. If you are defining jazz based on a few moments of chromaticism you are doing something seriously wrong.

>Obviously on a deeper look it's not jazz at all
Anyone can tell it's not jazz instantly.

>>15625978
Islamic music exists, you know?

>>15625986
>Islamic music exists, you know?
There's sufi-inspired Persian music, giving Persian-influenced nations music as well, but that's because it's been ingrained into their culture. These are the same civilizations that drew and painted images of humans and animals. The only valid form of music in Islam is the Nasheed.

>>15626005
>The only valid form of music in Islam is the Nasheed.
Depends on who you ask. There is a lot of islamic music that's instrumental.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u7blnDEC4M&list=PLWgNX3Pa-tGinawZFLzd_bRw6dYqBLn8H

The only "classical" music I've invested any time in has been Baroque, particularly Vivaldi (and a little bit of Bach). Four Seasons really invigorates me, like I can imagine having a manic episode just listening to Winter 1 alone.

>>15625788
You think language has actual meaning that correlates to things in the real world? You think it's actually an effective way of communicating and eliciting emotions? It's not. Music is much, much clearer and effective at communicating than language. There is no miscommunication in music. There are no questions of tone or intent - "was he being sarcastic?" Music is much more universal than language, and the reason the emotions it elicits seem so involuntary and without cause to you is because they are so much rawer and truer than any other form of expression they seem to arise from that which is unsayable and unable to be explained, only experienced. Words describe feelings, music is feelings.

>>15625788
See
>>15624140

>>15625914
>music is imprecise
o i am laffin
Do you know what sonata form is? Do you know how tuning works, and that the most sensitive ears are capable of detecting a note just a few cents out of tune? Don't you know there were debates for centuries over what frequency A4 should be tuned to, and over what tuning system to use? Have you ever looked at a piano score, and seen all the markings for dynamics, phrasing, tempo, and even telling you what finger to use to play the note?
Show me a piece of literature as tightly constructed and as perfectly balanced as the 1st movement of Beethoven's 5th.

>>15625986
>Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation
There are polyrhythms, enough to give it a slight swing feel. There are a couple blue notes, just not played lower. It has an improvisatory and free character. So the only thing it's missing is call and response. It's enough to resemble jazz that normal people, who don't have deep knowledge of all jazz or the characteristics of jazz, would take a little while to realize it wasn't actually jazz.
I'm talking about 2:30 specifically.

>>15626078
>swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation
A lot of african music suits the definition, but that doesn't make it sound remotely like jazz. If you think genres can be defined by "necessary" and "sufficient" conditions you are a brainlet.
You just need to listen to 5 seconds of it to instantly tell it's not jazz.

>>15626049
I mean imprecise only in regard to its ability to communicate anything of real substance relating to the complexities of one's existence (what else really is art?), or indeed any higher concept beyond inexplicably causing a surge of emotion

>>15615500
I mostly don't enjoy classical either, let me explain why I think you don't like it.

You don't enjoy classical music because you're trynna listen to it like modern music (which is why it feels hollow, boring, and unnecessarily long).

Some History (greentexted for differentiation):
>Classical music used to basically be the equivalent of a major blockbuster film, it was an experience to be had/an auditory journey in a time where you couldn't regularly experience music let alone music as complicated as what you would get with concerts. Plays were the equivalent of daytime television and rarely had much in the way of music.
>Then they fused into opera which basically was just a modern major blockbuster, and regular plays hit a weird spot where they became both shittier and more artsy in turns.

Your issue is that you're basically trying to listen to the audiotrack/background a movie like it's a song. So it's shit.


That said, you're completely correct, it's boring compared to modern music. People who do like classical music are either listening to it like it's a journey/experience, or they're full of shit/have no taste and are saying they like it to seem classy.

>>15626049
Music requires precise techniques of production =/= music is a precise form of communication.

>>15626160
Have you listened to Bach?

>>15625763
/mu/ is probably the most pathetic board there is.

>>15615500
I got filtered hard as shit by fucking Euthyphro and the Apology isn't doing me any favors either. It might be the translation; it's apparently by Benjamin Jowett, it's the Delphi Classics "Complete Works of Plato"

>>15626240
Gusic posting is its only saving grace

>>15625956
yes
> music can't hope to express the depths that works of literature can and do
Why should music try to express or communicate something in the first place? How does this line of thinking make any sense? "Yes, literature is nice in that it gets you preached by autistic Russians about life and shit, but you can't ever hope to shake your butt to Father Zosima's sermons, therefore it is a lower art form than music"

>he doesn't like classical music
https://youtu.be/YotMwwixPsw

I think we can all agree that film is the worst medium.

>>15626086
We'll just agree to disagree :)

>>15626122
>communicate anything of real substance
And what is real substance to you?
Don't tell me that Beethoven's 3rd symphony doesn't communicate something real. The struggle of the first movement, the despair of the funeral march, the return to life of the scherzo, and the final apotheosis and transcendence in the finale. Each movement contributes in a real, meaningful way to an overarching narrative structure. A story of struggle and ultimately triumph. It is a more meaningful journey than any novel, because again, words can only describe feelings, whereas music embodies them.
>>15626210
It is a precise form of communication. Music doesn't need to be translated. Beethoven didn't speak a lick of English nor I a lick of German yet I can look at his scores and immediately understand what he is trying to communicate. His music and its' meaning is so absolutely crystal clear if you really listen to it.

>>15626160
>it's boring compared to modern music
What modern music are you talking about? Because a Bach fugue is a hell of a lot more interesting than some rapper bloviating about doing drugs over a generic beat

>>15615500
You're listening to the wrong things. Go listen to any of Listz's Liebestraum, but particularly the most underrated, No. 1. Also take a look at Brahms' work, particularly his sets of intermezzo, try listening to his Op. 117 No.2. And to anyone who says Mozart is shit, you know nothing. Don't listen to symphonies at first, just solo piano music, it lets you understand the complexities of arranging notes and harmonies: you have to look at melody as a fine tuned argument where its logic is affirmed by its harmony: classical music is the highest, purest form of tonal beauty and art.

>>15626471
No, you are objectively wrong.

>>15626467
film is inherently better than literature

>>15626160
You're being anachronistic in your historiography by attempting to relate classical music to the way we view visual and sound entertainment today; namely, as commodities. Much of Bach's work was intellectual, and the effort in creating increasingly high-level species of counterpoint or fugues takes extraordinary work and genius: recitals or performances were thus seen as divine, something seemingly impossible to the layman to produce from a keyboard. Maybe you could make the argument that classical music become something more consumable once composers like Liszt transformed what it even meant to be a composer was and what classical music was: by providing a greater emphasis towards Wagner's "le motif"; but still, such performances were largely considered grand events rather than just another commodity to be seen or heard and then thought little of afterwards. Remember, recordings did not exist: the music was meant to stay with you.

>>15626535
That's just your opinion, but I appreciate it :)

I am less interested in worshipping The Trinity (Father = Son = Holy Spirit) and more interested in worshipping God defined as That which is Being itself, that which allows everything to be. Where is the church for this? Some Heideggerian church? Is this how Muslims define God? If He even can be defined ..

If you don't like understand classical music but enjoy reading why wouldn't you just listen to opera and read the libretto? Some are well written and others are adaptations of famous plays or books; the synthesis of music and text might give you some insight into the function of music and move you towards appreciation of pure instrumental works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B24qmkKfK7w

or this one for video and lyrics in cc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDP-K1dQ-M

>>15626566
sounds like unitarian but it's pretty cringe bruh

>>15626580
*like/understand

>>15626560
It's not a matter of opinion, your description of jazz is literally insufficient.

>>15626566
Taoism

>>15626566
yeah that's basically how Muslims define God. Sikhism could also be up your alley but it's a highly ethnic religion. I forgot who said this but a modern Islamic philosopher said that the only Western philosopher compatible with Islam is heidegger.

>>15615500
What the actual fuck.

I get that classical stuff is not for every mood and would probably overall prefer rap (which itself is insanely underrated) but have you not found a single composer and piece you like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVePv8OvJA
Show that it can even mix well. Beethoven is generally easy to enjoy so at least check out his piano concertos and symphonies.

>>15626523
> Listz's Liebestraum
That's the sort of shit and a lot of Bach people recommend might turn people away from classical music. It's slow and takes effort to stay awake. Specially if someone is used to hip hop, when rappers drop a bar over bar over bar with multiple meanings and homonyms that takes a few listens.

La Campanella, Mazeppa or Totentanz are much more lively and engaging. Also his version of Danse Macabre might be better than Saint Saens version.

For Bach I'd check out the French Suites and something like BMV 1052 and 1041.

Mozart is harder, but 25th Symphony or Don Giovanni Ouverture should work for most. Maybe Piano Sonata #8 too.

>>15617262
I would fuck you so hard you would literally die from a ruptured asshole.

>>15626646
You're being pretentious by just naming Liszt's most technically difficult pieces rather than his most beautiful (although I do find Mazeppa very beautiful, and all of his Transcendental Etudes), because to the untrained ear it will sound like nonsense, a mess of indistinguishable, although impressive, meaningless notes.

>>15626746
It's not about the difficulty and I couldn't think off any of his simpler works that sound engaging enough for someone who doesn't typical listen to classical. (Maybe Ballade Ukraine?)

Something simple like Mozart's Turkish March would do too.

>>15626746
>>15626785
Also I think you're underestimating the "untrained ear". They might not fully "get" the Transcendental Etudes but most of these simply sound nice; there is no need to understand shit to enjoy it when it comes to music. And being impressed can create the interest to listen to more stuff.

Start with the contemporaries and move down the line, Gershwin should be a good starting place.

Start with the Middle ages and move up the line, Ave Maris Stella should be a good starting place

>>15617316
>>You legitimately have bad taste if you think that. Music is the highest of all art forms.
this is why hi iq people hate hedonists

>>15615500
you are very special, unique, not like the others, you are better.

>>15615500
Just listen to faster music, ez.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWv_YLYm_Nc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgZSHvexz28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epSrxfw0pFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UzblyL4IvY

>>15615814
Why not Trout Quintet?

>>15615500
>All of these dumb niggers itc talking about hip hop and rap
You need to go back

>>15627368
Maybe you should, /pol/tard.

>>15615500
At least for me, in order to grasp the artistic and aesthetic value of classical music, you need to have at least a basic understanding of what is going on, how the work is structured, that definitely gives you more insight beyond just “kinda liking what I’m hearing”. So, why not trying to learn some music theory or history?

>>15625953
/mu/ discussing music is the most embarrassing situation there is.

>>15626017
>You think it's actually an effective way of communicating and eliciting emotions? It's not

Are you really trying to claim that music, notes on a sheet, is a more effective means of communication that the written word? You're right, why don't you write your response with musical notes and we'll see how much more "effective" it is. Think you're conflating the distinction between intelligent communication and evoking emotion and bundling them together when those are really two separate issues

>There are no questions of tone or intent - "was he being sarcastic?"
That's only because it's simpler than language so there are no possibilities for ambiguities, I would hardly call the lack of tone/intent in music a strength just because muh I don't have to think about if he's being sarcastic

>Words describe feelings, music is feelings.
Music may evoke feelings in a more effective primal sense than the written word, although as I said before, it's emotion without any substance. You stop listening to the music and its effect comes to an end, because once your brain is no longer being exposed to the stimulus of the chords it no longer elicits that emotional response. Meanwhile (and I only keep referring to Dostoevsky because his works are greatly emotional and this is the topic at hand, pick almost any literature), the type of emotion you feel reading Notes from the Underground has a source that might remain in you long after you close your book, even throughout your life perhaps, its anger and spite are based off of a deep and sincere loathing. Even something like Crime and Punishment expresses the ability of literature to discuss existential issues or fundamental morality which prompt far profound and 'substantial' emotional reactions than the seemingly primal or "raw" (as you say) emotions elicited by works of music

It's a very different type of music, back in the day you couldn't express yourself by manipulating timbres with technology. Classical music tries to express itself and be interesting by it's long and complex song structures and extreme virtuosity of instruments. It takes a certain amount of rememberance and focus to really understand properly, it's meant to be enjoyed as a play or a movie.
If you would like to understand it better the best way would be to try learn some simple piece for keyboard like Bach prelude 1 in C.

>>15627431
This. Knowledge breeds appreciation.

>>15628610
Thirded. I'm sorry to sound elitist, but you do need some education to appreciate classical music. If you don't know when the recapitulation kicks in in a Beethoven movement, or when the cadenza is about to start in the first movement of a Mozart piano concerto, or how Gesualdo subverts earlier polyphony with his chromaticism, you're just at the level of "hurr durr sounds nice" or "hurr durr too long I can't concentrate".

>>15626502
By substantial I mean anything of real significant value, that which approaches the essence of existence, purpose, meaning, the raison d'etre - the types of aspects you'll find in the commonly referred to 'great works' of literature that make them so profound. Irregardless of what kind of 'struggle' you've inferred from a piece of music and its transformation into 'triumph' towards the end, that is ultimately what music, as an art form, is limited to (not to demean that, the pure emotion of music is beautiful, just pales in comparison to the kind of depths you can find through the written word).

Also, what you're describing is not precision but universality, I can probably communicate with a Laotian basket weaver using vague hand gestures, physical expressions and my tone of voice to some degree, although I appreciate these are not as complex, these are universal means of expression (as you have suggested music is) rather than being precise.

>>15626324
Given that the crux of this discussion is about music being the 'supreme art form', I would say it's paramount that it expresses or communicates something more profoundly than any other, is that not the purpose of art in our lives? Also, given that it communicates deep emotion, I really don't see how you've come to the idea that music shouldn't aim to express something.


>"Yes, literature is nice in that it gets you preached by autistic Russians about life and shit, but you can't ever hope to shake your butt to Father Zosima's sermons, therefore it is a lower art form than music"

>muh [insert random ad hominem here] author discusses life and sheeet but if I can't dance to Ilyushechka’s funeral or the Aeneid/Illiad (although a degree of rhythm even here) then it's not as good as music
So, by this criteria am I right that you would consider the likes of Travis Scott's "Sicko Mode" to be a greater work of art than the the likes of the Illiad, Dostoevsky, Hemingway, Cervantes, etc. because muh I can dance to that?
Is there a more plebeian take?

>>15628573
>Are you really trying to claim that music, notes on a sheet, is a more effective means of communication that the written word
Yes. When I listen to Beethoven I know exactly what he is communicating.
>That's only because it's simpler than language
No, it's not. It's really, really not. You clearly don't know much about music if you think this.
>emotion without any substance
And you get to decide what substance is? Why are muh squiggly lines on page anymore substantial than muh squiggly air waves?
>You stop listening to the music and its effect comes to an end
So as soon as you hear something, you immediately forget it? No wonder you can't appreciate music, you can't even pay enough attention to it. Why is just music like that? Why doesn't a painting stop affecting you once you stop looking at it? Why doesn't a book stop affecting you after you finish reading it?
I find myself thinking back daily on music I've listened to and still having it affect me.
>its anger and spite are based off of a deep and sincere loathing
So literature is based off deep and sincere emotions but music isn't because reasons. Crime and Punishment is fictional. It's no more real than music is. What, because you can relate what happens in the book with what happened in your own life or imagine yourself in that position? Music can do the exact same thing.
>>15628787
>that which approaches the essence of existence, purpose, meaning, the raison d'etre
All of this is present in music.
>inferred
It's not inferring. Do you infer the plot of a book? You don't infer the narrative of a symphony, it is clear if you listen.
>is limited to
Limited to what? You say this as if language isn't incredibly limiting. Haven't you read Wittgenstein?
>Irregardless
Okay come on man, now you're just pulling my leg. Jesus Christ.

>>15628907
> Yes. When I listen to Beethoven I know exactly what he is communicating.
Bullfuckingshit. You never listened to Beethoven in your life. You listened to the interpretations of what he "said". Like reading a retelling of a story.

https://youtu.be/pN8Btz8voHk

Are you American? It must be the non white genes inside of you

https://youtu.be/GcWflxyDHx4

If you niggers dont get frission chills from music, you have NO RIGHT to a musical opinion. Ok?

>>15628981
>Russians attempting emotion
NOISE, MORE NOISE, DO YOU FEEL THE NOISE.

No wonder only the homo could do it right. And maybe Rachmaninoff on a good day.

>>15628994
If you can't feel the anger Prokofiev puts in his music, you are low T. Simple as

>>15629024
It's not about not being able to feel it but how he achieves it in such a juvenile way. I don't want the equivalent of some guy yelling at me when listening to music.

>>15629040
Juvenile to you, passionate to me. Prokofiev has "subtle", in fact I've felt he's much more restrained than his contemporaries. Not a sentimental man. When he projects anger, though, he makes sure everyone knows it. My ears respect that.
https://youtu.be/ThC4fMKmMNk

>>15628907
>Yes. When I listen to Beethoven I know exactly what he is communicating.
To be frank, I doubt this. Instead I think you just delude yourself into thinking you completely understand this 'great man' and his struggle or whatever - just egotistical delusion


>No, it's not [less complex]. It's really, really not. You clearly don't know much about music if you think this.
You're really claiming that language is more complex than the written word, as I said before the inability to convey irony or sarcasm in music (which you put forward as a strength) is a testament to its simplicity compared to the subtleties of language and the written word

>And you get to decide what substance is? Why are muh squiggly lines on page anymore substantial than muh squiggly air waves?
As I've said before it should be apparent to anyone that there is more substance to the "muh squiggly lines", i.e. the communication of thought through the written word than musical works, which only convey emotion at best. I think that distinction is fairly clear and your insincere phrasing of the point is purely an attempt at rhetorical deception, which misconstrues the whole point.

>So as soon as you hear something, you immediately forget it? No wonder you can't appreciate music, you can't even pay enough attention to it. Why is just music like that? Why doesn't a painting stop affecting you once you stop looking at it? Why doesn't a book stop affecting you after you finish reading it?
Naturally you don't immediately forget it, although the emotional response relies completely on the sound and stimulus of the music, which, even if you can recall in your head, doesn't relate to any deeper thoughts or concepts - whereas one does not need to recall the exact phrasing of a work of literature or an exact quotation, it's the thought and concept of that written word that embeds itself in your psyche and subconscious distinct from the letters used to convey it.

>So literature is based off deep and sincere emotions but music isn't because reasons. Crime and Punishment is fictional.
The music might very well be based off a deep and profound feeling, as I'm sure was a source for the composer in writing it, but you cannot discern what that really was due to the limits of music and therefore it has less significance to an individual - you're purely receiving the emotions of another man, from another man's experience and psyche. You can naturally try to implement something similar that you felt/thought personally, but I suspect for most people it's going to be a poor substitution.

>>15629113
> You can naturally try to implement something similar that you felt/thought personally, but I suspect for most people it's going to be a poor substitution.
Is it that different from /lit/? A lot of it depends on your own experiences and having the empathy to go along on the ride, AND being an experienced reader to read between the lines but when doing that you always run into danger of getting it wrong and picturing and feeling something the writer didn't intend.

Words are more precise for story telling, sounds are stronger for feelz. Both are great and you both are fags.

>>15629084
> in fact I've felt he's much more restrained than his contemporaries
May be, though it's not saying much given how that era was full of ... let's call it adventurous attempts. Not that I can't blame them, the time period in history side, improving classical music after the Romantic era is a fucking bitch.

Though it's a cute piece. Seems to hit the balance much better.

>>15628907
>All of [the essence of existence, purpose, meaning, the raison d'etre] is present in music.
I'm sure you've inferred these types of concepts from the music you've listened to, but as I said earlier, the limits of music as a means of communication is that you're purely guessing here, and you might be right in your estimation of the music's meaning (in being concerned with some of these ideas), but you're only left with vague hints of them rather than a fuller exploration.

>It's not inferring. Do you infer the plot of a book? You don't infer the narrative of a symphony, it is clear if you listen.
No, you don't infer the plot of a book because it's clearly communicated and articulated, you're really trying to tell me that you don't need to infer the meaning from patterns of music and notes at all? Please, you are just grasping here, no one with any shred of intellectual honesty can claim in good faith that narrative and meaning in a symphony is more clear than the actual articulated written word of an author.

>Limited to what? You say this as if language isn't incredibly limiting. Haven't you read Wittgenstein?
Language is naturally limiting, as is every means of communication, they're often imprecise and crude - but it's our only means. The written word, and therefore literature, however is clearly our best means of communicating and articulating our thoughts, stances and experiences. Do you think that you and I could achieve this level of communication of our thoughts through any other medium?

>Irregardless Okay come on man, now you're just pulling my leg. Jesus Christ.
Muh piddling pseud grammatical point, fair to say this one isn't owed any serious attention

>>15629166
Yes because you don't need to substitute your own experience, which may be lacklustre, the author clearly articulates his own context inspired from his personal experience.

Sounds may be stronger for feels, but they have no meaning without the communication provided by language. A musical composition may inspire either sadness or elation in you, but it has no real intellectual foundation for you, although it clearly would for the original author of the piece, but here lies the limit of communication in music, it can convey the deep emotion just as literature, but not its cause (which you have to attempt to crudely substitute and estimate for yourself)

Also, >muh both are good and you're both fags, what would we do without you, based centrist, rising above all our pitiful earthly disputes and providing your lofty judgement upon us both?
In all seriousness I'm not throwing music in the toilet here, I'm just saying that it can't hope to convey the kind of substance/intellectual foundation for emotion that I've referred to here as literature and the written word can

>>15625589
>Knowing my character and looking at that video, I'd drive myself crazy chasing the timing. I would end up in front of a piano, with gray hair, stuttering some incomprehensible things while playing only a few notes, showcasing only a glimpse of my long past glory.
and it would be beautiful

>>15615500
It's a different sort of aesthetic to the vast majority of modern popular music, which is more beat-focused and structured around a repetitive, driving rhythm. That's not a criticism btw, I enjoy hip hop as well, if you try to listen to classical music for the same qualities you find in hip hop then you'll be disappointed. Mozart is about constructing beautiful, melodic, singable phrases balanced against each other perfectly. Bach is about the endless harmonic possibilities of concurrent lines being woven together. Beethoven is about building immense, architecturally structured cathedrals of sound out of a single small idea. I don't think it requires technical knowledge or deep analysis to get what these composers are accomplishing, but I think it does require some acculturation, its own way of listening different to putting on a sick beat with creative lyrics and letting it unfold itself to appreciate.

>>15625401
this. poetry is musical, that's its appeal, and usually literally combined with music.

>>15616571
I think it's the opposite. Classical music is overused in media it's become mundane background music.

>>15617316
What's with the fancy rhombi?

I make retarded larp threads instead of working or reading...

>>15615500
Enjoying classical music is really hard if you didn't have the chance of getting a musical education during your youth. My parents always refused to get me an instrument and music lessons, and now that I'm earning my own money myself, I'm starting to learn the very basics. And I'm just starting to really apprehend the efforts behind an orchestra playing a symphony.
Otherwise, yes, it's an error to think that complexity in music is reserved to the classical genre. We shall not forget how, in the old days, there wasn't any real alternative.
And in my opinion classical music suffers from its high brow status. It makes people wanting to like music for other reasons than the music itself.

>>15629652
>Enjoying classical music is really hard if you didn't have the chance of getting a musical education during your youth.
all it takes is an appreciation of melody
if melody isn't for you what makes a song good then you probably won't like most classical

>>15617613
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHW--sqfBZc
tfw when a commercial using this music aired for years and years on TV and you are not able anymore to dissociate it

>>15629688
This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSQqbJPoSbw

>>15615500
I am reading Ulysses, I’m on chapter 15 and I already skipped two chapters. It’s a genuinely boring read.

https://youtu.be/-s68kHOnpiE

>>15631895
particularly the second moviment

>>15630212
Even some of Joyce’s friends and fellow writers couldn’t tolerate his works

>>15625788
>>15625914
You sound like you don't like art. That's fine. Most literature isn't art. Language is a means. Art is the end.

>>15615515
last 40+ books i "read" is audiobooks

>>15623535
Will it take me years to understand classical music? Is there any hope? What if I bought a cheap electric keyboard and learned to play some music to actively listen to it?

>>15615515
i completely forgot this wasn't just some thread about classical music

>>15632303
>What if I bought a cheap electric keyboard and learned to play some music to actively listen to i
You don't need that even. Just download Musescore and try to transcribe slow and simple pieces. Start with only getting down the melody. It's going to be hard as fuck in the beginning. It trains your ears and digests material at the same time.

Is /lit/ always like this? I just started reading again and thought I would check this board out and maybe get some recs, but this is without a doubt one of the worst threads I have ever seen on this website.

>>15633530
You what? This thread is like 8/10 given the average board quality.

>>15615822
This

>>15632236
*are

>>15617316
This isn't an argument. Its masturbating, and frankly I don't appreciate seeing another man masturbate on my sfw literature board, so please take your vulgar pseudo-intellect elsewhere.

>>15626602
Honestly it seems that Islam is more about what Muhammad said about God, rather than any philosophizing about theology. Taoism seems like a better choice for him.

>>15615500
based, I created both emo trap and modern classical and though I understand classical, it is methodical and often (for lack of a better word) boring

>>15629331
This, poetry's main feature is that it's phonetic. You can have poetry without writing but you can't have it without sound of words.