/lit/ - Literature

Read Taleb and Searle.

religion or love
but they're just spooks as well

>>15607813
How do you save someone from the truth? With lies

>>15607813
Nietzsche

You have to put them in a position that freaks them out and makes them question everything they thought was true

Even though emotions are caused by chemicals in the brain, you still experience them. You’ll get over it.

>>15607813
why would you sage someone from the truth?

>>15607813
Meditation bro

>>15607813
Is it a rational grasp of those or an emotional? If it's rational say love can't be predicated off chemicals because dogs love and assumedly aliens do as well and they use different chemicals. If it's emotional be sweet and go at their pace and always assume they mean well and don't let them get stuck in the trap that they're taking advantage of you (have them respect the fact that you love them, it's a gift)

>>15607840
>>15607849
No, you save them by teaching them to accept the truth and pursue beauty, which is beyond the black pill

what a retarded opinion. even if it is what's that to you? youre not gonna be able to have a basic human emotion that people have been having for centuries because you have some meme idea about what causes it. you are a fag retard if you seriously let physicalism impact your ability to get laid

>>15607902
I don't think OP is worried about getting laid, but finding meaning.

>>15607830
reddittier take
if something that is true is uncomfortable then you must attack the foundations of our understanding of reality instead of accepting it?

>>15607813
If you find this distressing, you are still a slave to ideology.

>>15607866
extremely far gone into the naturalism shit. I can't even argue against him with beauty and aesthetics as he does the tribal instinct meme. It's honestly sad and I don't know how to start. I recommended Schopie and Nietzsche but he doesn't expect anything to actually radically change his views.

>>15607921
>finding meaning
Pure ideology

>>15607944
>meaning
>prime directive
>a means to transcendence
What do you live for anon? And why do you still live?

>>15607813
>>15607843
it isn't about chemicals, what drives me insane it's that it's just animalistic need to breed and pair bond
once you understand the evolutionary purpose behinde it, it loses it's magic and you even begin to question whether it's trully you who wishes "love" or if it's just the animal inside you?

>>15607954
Embrace the animal ?

>>15607954
Passion feels fucking amazing. For me that's enough. You may call that hedonistic, but it gives me deep satisfaction and inner peace to know that that's okay.

Some people are in the driver seat, some people are but pretend they aren't, and some people have become the car

>>15607951
I live simply because I preference it when examining my options.

At the end of the day you still have to eat, drink water, sleep, and defecate in order to continue living. The desire for love and sex is the same type of mechanism. You will still be controlled by your instincts, regardless of how much speculation you have given it.

>>15607996
But why do you prefer living over being dead?

>>15607930
Ask him how he views math? If he views it as from inside human then ask how 2 hydrogen atoms morph into one helium before man existed.
Also say whatever human love is that it is only a part or predicate of love itself. Otherwise he'd have to deny love from animals. In extreme senses he has to deny everyone else exists because his chemicals for love are slightly altered in mechanism due to neuronal differences.

>>15607968
sex feels nice but i just view myself as a dog humping a bitch

>>15608007
Most likely instinct, I believe attempting to rationalize it would be an exercise in sophistry.

>>15607813
depends. if they're functioning and happy don't do a thing. If these things are making them miserable on the other hand, its going to take some work. the "love is just chemicals" thing usually tends to be built on the bitterness and resentment of loneliness. find out what they want, and more importantly why they want. from there things can be untangled more easily. speaking from personal experience, for many incels horniness and loneliness actually dont factor as much as you'd think. the root cause is usually insecurity

for the free will thing, a sense of powerless is the problem, and in this world you're kind of slim on options.

>>15608021
>Ask him how he views math? If he views it as from inside human then ask how 2 hydrogen atoms morph into one helium before man existed.
This is a nonsense argument, you're conflating physical phenomena with mathematical expression, rather than accepting that mathematics are one of the ways we interface with and describe reality, much like language in itself, feelings etc.

>>15607813
Through reading, something this board rarely does

>>15608060
Sure there's a human grasping math and then there's math itself. 1+1 can never = 3, ignoring semiotic arguments, just as much as 2 hydrogen atoms can't mix to form oxygen. It's a stable process from overview and it's happened prior to man

>>15607813
we are lended with indispensible beliefs that we cannot get rid of. they form the basis of our understanding of the world. that things have value is one of those beliefs, and even nihilism can't refute it. it only makes you think that there is negative value. but if there is negative value then there simply is value.

>>15607813
>physicalist reductionism and determinism (love is just chemicals and no free will)
Absolutely under no circumstances attack these standpoints with mystical or optimistic thinking. It's extremely alienating if you haven't already bought into the same brands and will accelerate his flight into the seemingly more grounded views you're trying to avert.

Being even more pragmatic might work, depending. "Maybe, but so what?" is the ultimate answer to determinism. Assuming that a hard-determinist interpretation is correct, that realization is just an arbitrary, predestined electrochemical state and doesn't reflect anything interesting. We're all doomed to live out that life so why get caught up on labels. Far more useful to focus on immediate, if technically illusory, problems since you'll have to deal with them even if you don't believe they're "real" in some sense.

Physicallist reductionism can be transferred into universalist monism if that's more palatable. Given that there is a purely physical universe arranged in a deterministic way, all the components and forms of the entire universe for all eternity are preconfigured into one complete immutable entity. Then it's absolutely (if vacuously) true that "we're all connected," "you are an essential part of something greater," "your life serves a purpose, however you choose to live it." With some semantic games you can turn that into something like "There is an all-knowing, all-loving God whom we return to when we die"

>>15608075
there is no math in itself in our worldview anon. unless you provide us with an ontological account of math as an existence, we cannot understand you ;^)

>>15608032
I don't mean sex, I mean emotion itself. Anger, sorrow, bliss, all that can be derived from lower and higher pursuits and all of it feels amazing. Take it from someone who was near-emotionally dead and cynical in his youth.

stop posting cringe

>>15607813
Look up Transformation Mastery

>>15608075
tell me what math is! i do not know what math is! tell me how math is true! tell me why math is true! where does math derive its credibility from, as a framework? please help!

I've refuted reductionism, determinism many times on this board already.
At its core it's just a refusal to engage with the word. If you have anything specific you want me to refute, please ask. Although I'm going to go to sleep now so I'll only be able to refute it tomorrow when I wake up.

>>15608095
I mean whatever it a that underlies 1+1 and 2 hydrogen atoms become helium is proof in itself. It might be completely divorced from what man has thought up but what we are trying to grasp is at least a part of it

>>15608403
Math is just logic dealing with quantification

>>15608000
what a utter bullshit. reducing feelings (like desire) to basic human functions is just being edgy for the sake of it, without any "proper" studies to back it up. also being behaviorist in xxi century just make me cringe

>>15608459
what underlies 1+1 is a language built upon proof—defining math is difficult but i’ll go ahead and accept that it follows certain conventions BUT from where does it derive its credibility? what is it about mathematics that makes truth value real? how can we know it is not constructed, at least in part? is there not a bit of intuition in there? do tell me what math is! what makes an expression real?

>>15608520
Whoah, get a load of this tough, smart guy. The fact you're pissed is all the evidence I need that your baseless opinions are better than his.

>>15607813

>>15607813
Feser, Aquinas, Plato, Ficino
a dash of Buddhism might help

>>15607813
embrace chaos

>>15607954
This. Is “true love” really a thing? Or is it socially conditioned animals scared of dying alone and being outcasts? People fall in and out of love all the time. People can be in love with multiple people at once. “Love” was just a catalyst for men to trick women into sex back in the old days when views on sex were much more conservative

>>15607977
I am a willing passenger. It’s very strange to me. I always remember my Philosophy teacher telling us you can’t be a passenger in life and I just thought “watch me”. Then I listened to the passenger by Iggy Pop when I went home

bump

>>15607813
ask /x

>>15608039
You just rationalized it- "I don't want to be a sophist, I want to be an animal." An exercise in devolution. Be on your way, atheist monkey-man

>>15607922
You presume it is true. And our understanding of reality is not this holy of holies, it can be attacked.

>>15607813
OP I’m not entirely sure, but investing oneself into something is a good start, like a tangible outlet. Whether it’s something creative, or something to do with others, that would be good to help them at least. If they could embrace the nonsense of things and determinism, that could help them escape more from its grip. There are still hills that need worked up and holding the self and the management of self to these standards is really important, but at the end of the day it’s best if they can make their biggest trappings secondary to bigger things they care more about (which can be hard to find in itself, admitably)

>>15607813
Introduce them to the Goldpill

>being alive is just breathing and a heart beating
>this makes life meaningless