/lit/ - Literature

>>15587868
t. mäinlander

>>15587868
is suffering really that bad though?

>>15587868
>reads Ligotti once

>>15587895
It's constant but it's easier to bear when you consider it's just an emotion just like any other you experience
Also it's not stronger than death (hopefully) so you can expect to be avenged in the end, death is your triumph over life

>>15587953
death feels really nice

>>15587971
Yes it is but awareness of death isn't.

Did Ligotti off himself? no

>>15587868
>Noooooo my life is bad therefore we shouldn't exist!!
Antinatalists are mentally weak faggots

Did any of you people ever stop in your tracks while trying to learn about something because it made you uncomfortable?

No joke desu, I stopped concerning myself with antinatalism because I found myself agreeing with some of the arguments FOR it, and like a coward I fled from something I thought was true, that I simply didn't want to be true.

>>15588069
No, that is when I tend to get excited but some stuff is just too retarded. That is why I read Nietzsche in the first place.

>>15588069
Yes, but I think most people do this with God, and that is why do many are depressed and why they come up and agree with retarded shit like antinatalism. Fleeing from something scary is an antinatalist thing to do though, is that the point? This philosophy is the final option after all others are exhausted, that's about all its good for.

>>15588101
I don't understand what you're trying to say at all.

>>15588101
Jokes on you because Christianity agrees with antinatalist thesis.

Ecclesiastes 4:1
>Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun: I saw the tears of the oppressed-- and they have no comforter; power was on the side of their oppressors-- and they have no comforter.

Ecclesiastes 4:2
>And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive.

Ecclesiastes 4:3
>But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.

>>15588128
> "Be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28)

Yes, sure it is. That book is all about how to have a family. You should read a book called "how to read a book" by Adler.

>>15587868

Um believing in antinatalism doesn't really mean you have to kill yourself you just shouldn't have kids

>>15588297
Im going to have kids just because I hate them and want them to suffer in this life like I do

>>15587907
Ligotti balls

>>15588260
Stop pretending like those verses don't exist. I just don't want my children to suffer, commit sin for pleasure and then go to hell.

I don't think OP is seriously a antinatalist and just wanted to make a funny joke with Gigachad.

>>15588380
Well better a shitpost thread turns into actual discusson than be filled with more shitposts

>>15588361
Loving your unborn children more than God itself. Are you ever going to be a based patriarch?

>>15588069
>spooked by spooks

>>15588390
You have no authority to judge my love for God.

>>15588463
Then don't disobey his orders or spread this false interpretation. I'm not a religious person, so it is not like I'm bound by any rule. I'm judging based solely on my knowledge.

>>15588471
Nowhere the book mentions that people who don't procreate will go to hell or don't love God.

>>15588509
Ecclesiastes 4:3
>But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.

Based on this? Not so sure, anon. You might have some trouble. I would ask for forgiveness right now if I were you.

>>15588525
We'll meme'd my good sir.

>>15588297
Soft antinatalism goes as far as "allowing" one child per couple, for a steady shrink in population.

>>15588128
>>15588101
>two people who can't read the Bible discuss the Bible
hm

Life isn't that bad, but people definitely make it worse than it has to be.

>>15587868
I believe that anti-natalists should be allowed to die childless.
The moment they attempt to actualize that philosophy on me and mine, I will begin helping them to do so.

>>15588069
i don't think there's anything wrong with this
there is the question of what is true, and the question of what any particular person is capable of understanding, and just because something is "true" in a universal sense doesn't mean any particular person can understand it
using your intuition to avoid things that you "feel" are false but that you don't think you have the capability of disproving is actually the most logical choice

>>15588260
Why is it not one of the Ten Commandants, when "Honour thy father and thy mother" is?

It seems obligation to one's parents is more important than becoming a parent.

>>15588128
The entirety of Ecclesiastes is the author writing from the perspective of letting what seems self-evident affect him as powerfully as it can. But he never suggests that this is what God actually endorses. On the contrary, in the conclusion of the book he seems to lapse back into fideism to overcome the existential dread. He's like Kierkegaard. You shouldn't conclude that God himself is saying that everything is worthless. The inclusion of the book in the Bible is instead an endorsement of the fact that existentialism should be taken seriously if you bracket God and revelation from consideration, but in the end you should unbracket and turn back to God.

Antinatalism main premise directly leads to world being infinitely good.

>>15591645
KEK imagine being this retarded and believe in such bs. Chimps can be fucking jerks too. Are you going to tell them to quit having sex?

>>15591663
At least chimps lack self consciousness and awareness of the mortality.

>>15591678
Well, good luck stalling the evolution after we end. I would also put my some of my bets on raccoons.

antinatalism is particularly valid in times like these. I'm not going to pump out another battery for the meat grinder

>ITT: No one has read a single book on antinatalism

philosophy is for the mentally handicapped most of the time, they still haven’t figured out it’s all made up and imaginary (its fiction)

>>15591721
>wagecucking is real though

>>15591712
True antinatalists managed to avoid being born, so no books from them.

>>15591721
>whatever I believe in isn't fiction

>>15591739
every belief is fiction including this one

>>15591729
there is a difference between philosophy and the reality of our society, no?

>>15591845
"the reality of our society" is completely drowned in images and symbolic fictions

>>15591835
There is no rebellion greater than denying your programming.

>>15591854
i don’t disagree, you are describing human intelligence. i don’t see how that discounts the fact that we can observe the present situation we find ourselves in

How to disprove antinatalists:
>have sex with a lot of women with no condom on
>they give birth
>don't stick around to raise the children
>they inevitably have to rely on food stamps and welfare
>welfare comes from the antinatalists taxes
>antinatalists are indirectly raising your child
Anti natalists are literally cucks

>>15591902
I'm just saying people who reject philosophy in favor of the "real world" usually don't know what they're talking about

>>15591924
Implying that they won't depend on people who were born after them. Come on, anon. This thing is shit and you know it.

>>15588623
Imagine being the last one. The ultimate incel

>>15588069
I don't really give a fuck, it's not that easy to influence my worldview. If you don't have the mental fortitude to reject ideas you simply don't agree with, you need to toughen up.

>>15591968
Incel? More like impossibel lmao

>>15588069
>negative value at birth
Fucking cringe. I wish you anti-human scum would die.

>>15590664
Interesting take, could it be that someone edited the ending instead?

>>15592038
Fucking retard. Reread the post.

>>15592053
Who are you quoting? Who is "anti-human"? Antinatalists aren't. Are you in thw wrong thread? Are you confused, can we help you? Hellloooo earth to anon?!

>>15587868
no men of strong health believe this shit. arguments not even needed, just get some sun and exercise retard

>>15587868
anti natalism is projection of the self hating

>>15592276
This anon gets it.

>>15592276
Hating what

>>15592295
the self

>>15592141
>>15592276
>>15592292
who let the redditors out

>>15592305
I used to lurk on 4chan before reddit existed. Now bend the knee and kneel.

>>15592298
There is no self

>>15592313
I took THAT photo of moot. bend YOUR knee!

>>15588380
It was a really funny picture.

>>15592375
No oldfag cries about reddit, anon. Sorry, bend the knee.

>>15587868
After thinking really hard about the idea of hell, I realised that antinatalists were in one way right, eternal suffering isn't worth it, but I also realised one thing: they don't belive in hell, therefore they think this world actually contains any kind of suffering, that is retarded, this world is nothing, at least you know one day it will end.

>>15592375
nice

Having children is imoral

>>15592494

What're some books that BTFO atheism and materialism?

>>15587868
I wonder if it's possible to force "breeder" (an established pejorative in antinatalist circles) as the next big meme buzzword or if it's a bit too much.

>>15587868
>making decisions based on if other people are right or wrong and not on whether you are right or wrong
virgin mentality right there

>>15592494
>Spirit babies in heaven are real

>>15592501
>Edgy goth fo lyf
Some people never mature.

>>15594748
I thought you were antinatalist?

>>15592075
This is the historically accepted interpretation of Ecclesiastes. I promise for hundreds of years when Christians were going through the Bible they didn't just ignore Ecclesiastes because it's the one where God says that everything is pointless.

So like, if unborn spirit babies exist in haven, how do you actually create an unborn spirit? I mean it's not as if every second of my life that I'm not cumming I'm making infinitely many unborn spirit babies. Is there like a proximity window, and if you're close enough but miss the opportunity, you create an unborn? Does it vary by condom thickness? Is there a way that I can stand juuuust close enough to a woman to start sending our spirit children up to heaven?

>>15594841
Asking for a friend.

>>15592494
as human species yes

>>15594841
you’re a pseud which is why you suffer, drop the act and you will finally be able to rest

>>15592360
(You) would believe that, which is in part why you feel like life is irredeemable, unenjoyable, and exclusively composite of suffering.

>>15594900
I'm just confused because it seems that for something to experience any manner of pleasure, it has to be born, even when this process itself is just the creation of an unborn.

>>15587889
he was too based and redpilled for this world...

>A charmed life is so rare that for every one such life there are millions of wretched lives. Some know that their baby will be among the unfortunate. Nobody knows, however, that their baby will be one of the allegedly lucky few. Great suffering could await any person that is brought into existence. Even the most privileged people could give birth to a child that will suffer unbearably, be raped, assaulted, or be murdered brutally. The optimist surely bears the burden of justifying this procreational Russian roulette. Given that there are no real advantages over never existing for those who are brought into existence, it is hard to see how the significant risk of serious harm could be justified. If we count not only the unusually severe harms that anybody could endure, but also the quite routine ones of ordinary human life, then we find that matters are still worse for cheery procreators. It shows that they play Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun—aimed, of course, not at their own heads, but at those of their future offspring.

>>15593526
Unironically The Bible

>>15590664
I don't think so. It's a straightforward condemnation of the material world, and the vanity of earthly life. Themes which are later greatly emphasized in the gospels and the letters of Paul. To enter the kingdom of god, one must stop worrying about worldly matters and turn one's attention wholly to the spirit.

>>15591663
My private conversations with chimps are none of your business.

>>15595568
Come on. Only atheists actually read the Bible.

Why yes, i do realize the anti natalists are right and yes, i am going through impoverished third world countries and i am having unprotected sex with and impregnating hundreds of women, how could you tell?

>>15595728
by your diseases

Why do people always go for this idealist argument for antinatalism instead of just pointing to orphanages? Like you have two arguments to present, which of these do you think looks more sincere:

>instead of creating a first world child, you could have adopted an orphan to not only avoid pain, but increase pleasure, things I am mature enough to register as two separate categories
>OOOH THE DEEP DARK DEPTHS OF MY SOOOOUL

>>15595785
Adopting an orphan and being an antinatalist is not contradictory.

>OOOH THE DEEP DARK DEPTHS OF MY SOOOOUL
Retard. You can live a personally very hapoy life and still hold antinatalist beliefs.

Read more.

>>15595785
Adopting an orphan and being an antinatalist is not contradictory.

>OOOH THE DEEP DARK DEPTHS OF MY SOOOOUL
Retard. You can live a personally very happy life and still hold antinatalist beliefs.

Read more.

>>15593826
Natalism is unironically the only positive way to disrupt the technological system, it's the only way to find higher interests than spectacular-driven ones

>>15595785
The only moral position is to kill all children
Fuck kids and zoomers

>NOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN HURTIES

>>15587895
Yes, but there are experiences so much better, to the point they blind you to the suffering.

Antinatalist should focus on eliminating minorities, who are the ones actually having kids.

There is little benefit from just killing yourself, who wouldn't have children anyway.

>>15596037
>Adopting an orphan and being an antinatalist is not contradictory
I didn't say they are, I listed the former being an option as a way to support the latter

>Read more
You first

>>15596216
The reason you don't want kids is a projection of your own experience, and making it the ultimate constant.
However, something stills the hand when it seeks to remove suffering from its source, and transforms the evil antinatalist into a doomposter.

>>15587979
Wut? That's the best part!

>>15594748
>Spirit babies in heaven are real
Not building antennae here that connect to higher qualia -> higher qualia doesn't have to suffer from the localized neighbors
As such, I understand antinatalism. However, it is better to view this as a spiritual battlefield. Whether light and good things wins in the end, or is goes extinct - now that's interesting. If good things go extinct here, they simply keep connecting elsewhere, similar to how hunger and other experiences connect across time and space to all bio-chemical, localized antennae.

Antinatalists are insufferable. Why they feel the need to share their pessimism with others, I don't know. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have children, for whatever reason, but why must these assholes spew their toxic garbage ideology in others? Do they not realise that not everyone suffers from depression? Not everyone is a nihilistic edgy existentialist who sees no meaning in their life. Not everyone views the world as overwhelming suffering, and some people actually enjoy their lives.

Fuck antinatalists! They are immature arrogant assfucks who can't see past they're own ideology

>>15596881
If you were enjoying life then you wouldn't have ended up here, in this shithole, the anus of the Internet.
And fuck you people don't need some random faggot's validation to express their opinions, now go suck a dick about it faggot.

>>15587979
P U S S Y
U
S
S
Y

>>15596183
stop anon, or you're going to suffer an overdose from based

>>15596981
And?

>>15587907
ligotti balzac

>>15596881
>oh no why are people allowed to write their opinion in a book
also
being sad =/= antinatalism

>>15588069
Me when I was reading Marx
I sympathize with the idea that workers are exploited and the world would be better off if private property was abolished.
But I'm a trust fund kiddie with a self running business, probably one of the first people who'll get hanged if commies took over

>>15588069
antinatalism isn't true or false, we continue to breed because on some level we enjoy human existence

>>15587868
anti-natalism isn't about killing yourself