/lit/ - Literature

Adulthood Rites - Octavia E. Butler, Xenogenesis trilogy book 2, 1988

1st book write up
>>/lit/thread/S15127994#p15128061

The instructive suffering continues. Adulthood Rites follows the travails of a mixed species, called "construct", child of the protagonist of the first book. There's a 30 year time skip to establish the antagonists and allow the Oankali, the aliens from the first book, to mull. A significant portion of the book is from the perspective of a kidnapped toddler, in age though not of mind. As with the the first book, it's unclear when and how much the Oankali had already decided these would be the events that occur.
Thematically it moves from "Why are those who we've enslaved so hostile and resentful towards us?" to "Why are those we've systematically oppressed so hostile and resentful towards us?" This is a movement from the past to the present. This book felt relevant to current events.
Many other readers elsewhere continue to defend the Oankali and victim blame humanity. There are some parallels with defending the police while being either bewildered by the protesters or condemning them as savages, as that seems to how the Oankali view the human resisters.
Some others would thusly find it incumbent upon me to defend the regression of mankind back to stone age mentality as was decried by the protagonist in the first book. But, I don't. Terribly hurt people in awful circumstances tend to lash out at other terribly hurt people in awful circumstances, though that certainly doesn't absolve their actions, let alone those of opportunists.
Those humans who side with the Oankali still seethe at their oppressors despite their compliance, because it's the least worst choice in their minds.
My favorite part of the book was the scene of literally induced empathy and the resulting indignation and denial that ensued.
The constructs are certainly portrayed as being the best of both worlds and I don't find fault with the protagonist.
There's still body horror, but it's of a different sort.
Many seem to see the ending as vindication of the Oankali, but considering manumission as such is self-indictment to me.

>>15586270
Passages
"what was left behind would be less than the corpse of a world"
Oh, so you're concerned about both blood and soil, sounds like nazism to me or sounds like a version of The Great Replacement is something some may reflexively respond with elsewhere without a sense of irony or nuance.

"Plastics used to kill people back before the war"
The Plastics Are Evil scene reminded me of the film Dark Water.

"That's what Humans are, too, don't forget. People who poison each other, then disclaim all responsibility."
This is unfortunately all too true, from /sffg/ to the entirety of human society.

"Who among the Oankali was speaking for the interests of the resister Humans?"
I think that the very concept that anyone would speak out for another group, let alone a marginalized one, eludes many and even more have a rather narrow view of what it means to do so and who is included in these groups.

"Oankali simply bred animals who did not want to stray and who enjoyed what they were intended to be."
The next step from modern cultural indoctrination in creating the model citizen.

"let you procreate again would be like breeding intelligent beings for the sole purpose of having them kill one another."
Truly an example of "compassionate" patronizing that is all too common. The various compulsory sterilization programs that have been carried out over the years sometimes attempt similar pretense.

Rating: 4/5
TL;DR alien-human hybrid tries to make sense of his place in the world and what can be done about how terrible both the humans and aliens are.

Can I ask for "raunchy" literature here or do I go to another thread?

>>15586326
In Terra Ignota, there's lots of twunk spanking, bdsm while philosophical discussions, prostitution, and buggery. Is that acceptable?

>>15586295
whats wrong with the armored saint?

Anyone reading the Palladium Wars books by Marko Kloos...I picked up the first book because it was free on Kindle Unlimited/Audible. Just wanted something to listen to on my commutes. I see the 2nd book is out now.

i miss being happy, passionate and curious. Now I just exist

>>15586387
Loved the first, got to the third chapter of the 2nd and it was pov of the cop character who I didn't enjoy so I stopped reading whilst I finished off other stuff.

>>15586257
thanks for taking the pedophile's discord link out

>>15586410
whenever I feel like that, I read pulp fantasy. It always works for me.

>>15586559
I don't think that will work for me. Major depression is such a bitch, and it's a bitch all the more because it causes brain damage, making you a bit stupider and a bit less talented every time you're miserable. Spend enough time miserable and you start noticing the differences, start seeing how far you've fallen, and it makes you more depressed, and you get stupid faster

>>15586257
Webfiction General - /wfg/
>>15586254

>>15586504
rent free

>>15586326
What’s your poison?

>>15586387
Yeah I'm about halfway through the second one. Enjoying it so far, compared to Terms of Enlistment the opening of the series has been stronger/less rough and I think having older characters helps with that.

>>15586417
The third POV character is still a soldier detached for peacekeeping/counter-terror stuff after her squad got wiped out in the first book, things pick up with her plotline after a couple chapters when the bad guys show up again.

Read lot of sci-fi

Never read any fantasy because they seem to nerdy and childish. But i wanna give it a try.

What 1 book should i start with that will wake my interest for fantasy?
(Dont give me a long list of books I should look into)

>>15587528
The Library at Mount Char or
A Wizard of Earthsea or
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

>>15587528
I was kinda in the same boat a while back, too many "fantasy heartbreaker" stories that are just some nerd "paying tribute" to Tolkien with a bad homage. I would suggest either the first Black Company book, or Curse of Challion.

Is gaimans Stardust a good Read?

>>15586257
is it bad that Fantasy, as a genre, has increasingly moved away from the classic tropes--good and evil, heroes and villains in favor of moral ambiguity and anti-heroes, but I love them and am convinced that there will always be a place for them. Sometimes, I just want to read a story filled with heroes who do what's right because it's right, often suffering consequences for it, heroes who can inspire me to be a better person.

Whats the best sci-fi book written in the last 20 years?

>>15587528
book of the new sun. all other answers are wrong

>>15587960
wait that's technically sci fi, nevermind. read gormenghast

>>15587875
Just watch the movie. I love Gayman and even I think that book is shit.

What are the best books in the SF Masterworks collection?

>>15586257
Since I am legitimately opposed to fascism and authoritarian shit I'm totally fine with listening to or reading about ideas i do not agree with. Most of my favorite writers are spineless liberal pussies who worship black dick and are staunchly against the phantom white supremacists.

>Few chapters into Prince of Thorns

What a cunt of a dude this Jorg is.

>>15587032
2000s vibes :)

>>15588193
you’re gay

>>15587528
>>15587960
Wizard Knight, all other answers are wrong.

>>15588352
fair point.

>>15588193
>le ebin edgy teen Blood Meridian Severian memelord book

What a shitshow that is. It's been 3 years and I still hate the twat that recommended it to me in this very general

>>15587950
Either Book of the Short Sun or Blindopraxia.

>>15588370
Is that what it is?
I got recommended it in the last thread, so I thought I would give it a try.

The writing so far has been a little dog dirt. There was a chapter just that was basically;
>War is a game, and I like games, because I win games, and games are fun, because wars are games.
and I wasn't sure if this was going to be the quality of the writing throughout.

Should I scrap it and start something else? I have Black Company ready to go.

>>15588381
Skip it man, there are 2 highlights in this:

>the princetwat sets fire to a nuke thus setting it off, after convincing an AI to kill itself so he can gwt to the nuke
>some wizardshit probes his mind and recoils and then runs away never to be seen again after reading all the edginess inside

>>15586326
One.

>>15586326
Two

>>15586326
Almost everything Heinlein has a lot of weird sex. Except Starship Troopers

>>15586326
Philip Jose Farmer is your man in this case.

>>15588436
"the perfect book chart simply does not exis-"

>>15587929
>is it bad that Fantasy, as a genre, has increasingly moved away from the classic tropes
No, it isn't. I'm fed up of reading authors write a good story, then make their character retarded and have him do stupid shit because "morals".
Sacrifice yourself for some cunny you never met? So she can go on the cock carousel after you're bleeding out? Fuck no. Go read those shitty m'lady books if you want a stupid shit who kills himself saving a girl who he doesn't even know.

>inspire me to be a better person
Morals are dead. You think you can go around and tip at females and they will blush? Current tropes matches people's morals these these. There is no black and white in the real world, there are also shades of gray. If you're a moral cuck that wants to kill himself so chad can fuck the girl you just met, go ahead.

>>15588193
Wish authors would make more Severians/Guts, guys who've been through a lot and have seen a lot of shit living in a bleak world but aren't edgelord retards
Jorg is unironically a self-insert cunt and I will forever hate this fag

>>15588511
Jesus Christ the seething in this post.

>>15588553
>a non response
Typical
You probably a moral cuck who feels if you seem heroic, that girl you like will give you the pucci.

>>15588445
>Asoiaf is degenerate

Wat? Has this word lost all meaning since pol got a hold of it?

>>15588569
Who hurt you man?

>>15588608
It's there for the GRI.

>>15588634
Society, and we live in one.....

Looking for a good Fantasy or Science Fiction book that deals with killing/meeting Old Gods.

>>15588608
It's chock full of the sffg goodies.

>>15588840
Look at Gods among us.

What's this? A new thread and it's not here?
Fuck E William Brown

>>15587528
Chalion's the first one that comes to my head for a "mature" introduction to fantasy

>>15586257
Need magical engineering books that is not Daniel Black.

Whats your least favourite book from your favourite writer?

>>15586270
Imago - Octavia E. Butler, Xenogenesis trilogy book 3, 1989

Probably should have noted this the first time, but various plot spoilers, etc.

Certainly the weakest of the three books for me. Imago doesn't really build on anything and seems unnecessary overall. I may feel this way because nothing in the book resonated with me. While the first book is about how humans deal with captivity, and the second is about how humans regain their dignity with the help of a privileged hybrid, the third book is about two novel hybrids who really, really, really, want to mate with young humans, but there are a lack of them. One of them attempts suicide because they can't endure being involuntarily celibate as a result of their requirements for a mate. Yes, both of these hybrids are also part of Lilith's brood. There are many in her brood born over the course of a century. A different way to look at it would be that the first book is the story of the oppressed, the second is the story of the liberator, and the third is the story of the oppressor. That's probably why I liked it the least.
Imago takes place 50 years after Adulthold Rites, which makes it 100 years since the main narrative of the first book and 350 years since humanity almost destroyed itself.
Eventually the protagonist stumbles onto a sibling pair of young humans and immediately declares them his mates and makes them an offer they can't refuse, more or less literally. Concerns about consent are brought up, but the protagonist says that if they were given the option to consent, they could have said no, and that wouldn't have been acceptable for a variety of reasons. The humans lead him back to their village of incestous mountain people and they are colonized. The End.

Rating: 3/5
TL;DR: MUST FIND YOUNG HUMANS TO MATE WITH!

Best fantasy series that have 3 or 4 books and don't end shitty?

>>15589595
>don't end shitty
That would be up to you decide unless you believe that either a consensus opinion, which this isn't a suitable place to ask for that, or a random person's opinion will suffice.

>>15588445
>farnham's freehold
all i remember was the dad impregnating his daughter's friend, hardly heinlein at his most coomerish

Race the Sands was pretty fun in the end, has some twists and turns but saves them all for act 3. If anything the actual racing falls by the wayside as the novel goes on.
Not outstanding or anything but it's nice to read a standalone fantasy novel that creates a unique world and uses it to tell one entire self-contained story.

i just want a 40k novel with good writing

>>15589595
Latro

>>15589933
Dan Abnett. Just pick one.

I've been writing a fantasy novel and I'm about 77k words in and have finished the first major "story arc" of the book, but I'm just not feeling it anymore. I just don't think it's turned out the way I wanted it to, and I'm stuck now deciding whether to just force through and try to finish it anyway and see how it turns out or abandon it and start something new and possibly better.

What would you guys do?

>>15590034
You are unlikely too see it published if you yourself don't enjoy it or think the history is bad. I would say finish it as an exercise, try to make it as good as you can, because leaving projects unfinished does little nothing for you as a learning experience.

>>15588381
You got trolled. Its edgelord shit.

Like most things on /lit/ its freshmen bait.

>>15590066
What should I read then, bb?

>>15590034
I'd listen to this anon >>15590049 if I were you. No book is ever flawless after just one draft, so just keep going. Push yourself to get it finished, even if it's an ugly, hurried mess. You can always come back and finish it later. Generally speaking, it's never good to just abandon a project because that can become a habit and before you know you'll have nothing to look back on but a string on unfinished projects. At least get it completed so you can say you did.

>>15590071
I dunno. What did you ask for when it was recommended.

>>15589957
i can't bring myself to finish it. it's so good that i don't want it to end. i have about 50 pages left

>>15588511
Did you know that your soul and body are both ugly, and people are correct to judge you by your appearance alone?

>>15588511
God that book was so stupid. Remember the ghoul he scares off cause he's so evil. Dropped that shitty book right then and there. It's the ultimate edgelord self insert fantasy.

>>15588370
>>15590096
>>15588393

Shit wrong reply.

>>15590071
Epic fantasy?
Malzan
Gormenghast
Tad Williams trilogies.
good prose?
Earthsea
Rothfuss
Classics?
Conan the Cimmerian
DragonRiders fo Pern

Prince of Thorns is really good but it really relies on you putting up with it long enough to learn that the edginess is a plot device

i'm finding the lord of the rings really boring and unengaging.
it's been getting me down since it's considered a timeless classic of the fantasy genre that everyone loves.
what's /sffg/'s opinion on this: acceptable, since it's an old (and maybe outdated) book, or just plain distasteful of me?

>>15590140
You're as pleb. Don't feel bad, most LOTR fans haven't read the books either at this point.

>>15590140
you should feel bad about yourself and wonder whether or not you actually know how to read

>>15590034
>I'm just not feeling it anymore. I just don't think it's turned out the way I wanted it to
If that's the highest disdain you can muster before even a drop of editing then you really ought to finish the thing. If nothing else there's value in the process, as the other anons said.

>>15590140
Just because something is considered a classic doesn't mean you have to force yourself to like it.

>>15587950
Too Like the Lightning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLSH_xM-KC3Zv-79sVZTTj-YA6IAqh8qeQ&v=-6HOdHEeosc

I want all trannies to leave

>>15586257
any sci fi thrillers with h acking or deep web shit

finding out things you weren't suposed to know?

>>15590597
SCP Foundation

>>15590011
As good as they get at least

>>15588359
wizard knight is so fucking boring

When does this get good? I'm about a third of the way through, and it's nothing but cartoonish, unlikeable characters stuttering their way through painfully awkward conversations.

The world seems like it could be interesting, but nothing is happening.

>>15591476
If you don't like the writing by now it's better you just quit tebehe. It's an experience in style and nothing else.

>>15591193

>>15590128
Teen protag = YA = garbage

>>15591873
Bummer. The prose is nice, but for 500+ pages, I need characters and story to maintain interest.

>>15586257
What happened to that recommendation list?

>>15592517
What recommendation list?

>>15592517
no fear anon, i got you

>>15590714
what's your favorite scp /lit/?

>>15592517
thread autist that comes on at the weekends and fights over ops

>>15592604
>the best setting
>the least amount of books

can someone explain why this is?

>>15592780

http://www.scp-wiki.net/taboo

thats one of the few "new" ones i like

>>15590083
Did you know you're a faggot cuck, and girls simply use you because you're easy?

>>15590140
>a timeless classic of the fantasy genre that everyone loves
Who is everyone? Lotr was shit. I did enjoy the hobbit though.

>>15592517
You mean the wiki in the board sticky?

>>15591476
Stuff does start "happening" around halfway through but it never really stops being the way you described it.

>>15586257
F&SF May/June 2020

Hornet and Butterfly - Tom Cool and Bruce Sterling
A jumbled and nonsensical mess of a cyberpunk story set in a raft refugee city and then mainland China. I don't understand why it was the lead story. It's unfortunate because I've really enjoyed a lot of Sterling's short fiction. I blame the failure on it being a cooperative work.
Disliked

Stepsister - Leah Cypess
A quite darkly amusing continuation of Cinderella taking place 5 years after she marries the Prince, now the King. The protagonist is the King's brother.
Enjoyable

Eyes of the Forest - Ray Nayler
Humans settle on a new planet, but the surface's flora and fauna are too deadly so they live underground. Those who dare brave the surface are called Wayfinders.
Enjoyable

Byzantine - Holly Messinger
A young boy and an ifrit use each other in the last days of Constantinople.
Enjoyable

Warm Math - Rich Larson
Two men are in an escape pod which needs to lose a lot more mass for one of them to survive. One man is in an escape pod and he needs to lose a lot more mass if he's to survive.
Meh

An Indian Love Call - Joseph Bruchac
>Since 1971, Bruchac has published more than 120 books.
Guy makes a potion which attracts a female bigfoot to him and demands they find her a mate or else.
Meh

Birds Without Wings - Rebecca Zahabi
A horror story about monsters that steal the bodies of others. Very similar to Shucked - Sam J. Miller which ran in the same issue as her previous story, which I quite disliked.
Ok

In the Eyes of Jack Saul - Richard Bowes
This is both historical fiction and fanfiction of The Picture of Dorian Gray. How very queer.
Enjoyable(?)

Who Carries The World - Robert Reed
I want to enjoy Reed's various Great Ship stories and novels, but I can't and it's unfortunate.
This particular one is about a nigh invincible immortal, most people are now, searching for a girl he had last seen 12,000 years ago.
Meh

Another Fucken Fairy Tale - M. Rickert
A 98 year old woman meets a very rude female fairy.
Ok

The "cartoons" were as bad as usual.
I still don't care about the poems at at all.
The rest can be read for free here, same with the other issues: https://www.sfsite.com/fsf/toc2005.htm
The various references I originally made to other media were omitted because I thought they'd distract overly much.

If someone was new to fantasy what three series would you recommend?

>>15593470
Depends a bit on what I know about them and their reading interests but something like Earthsea, Discworld and Chronicles of Amber gives a pretty good rounded introduction.
If I had to go into a discworld subseries it'd be the Grim Reaper one.

Farseer/Liveship is a good but riskier intro because it's just protagonists eating shit over and over, ASOIAF would be a good suggestion for "mature" fantasy had it not become a massive tv show and Chalion would be my go to but it's got a lot of similarities with my other selection and works alright as just a standalone.

>>15593470
Snit that would be easy to digest, and normie enough to get them invested.
It depends on their age range and temperament

>>15593470
Branderson, GRRM, JRRT

/sffg/, I'm not sure what I can do about this. My degeneracy leaked into my writing and I don't know what to do. Every romantic arc in my story is coming to a head and every single one of them has a profound maturity gap that I'm not sure how to un-fuck. things fit together too perfectly

>>15593745
Embrace your "degeneracy".

>>15593470
Wheel of Time, Malazan, Stormlight Archive

>>15593745
hi lois

>>15593762
I don't want my friends and family to know.

>>15593797
Then don't have them read it. If you're only writing for them, then you're doing it wrong.

>>15593806
they're going to read it. I'm in a writing group with my friends and my mom reads everything I write. I wasn't trying to make this degenerate, it just came out that way.

The sad part is, it might not have even gone in this direction if I didn't add in this one goddamn character as an afterthought, but now I can't cut her out or age her up without having to retool a bunch of scenes. It's possible I can genderswap her and remove the romantic aspect, but then it would undercut any emotional depth from the story arc

>>15593429
>sff magazines
I was considering subscribing to/getting some issues of Interzone. What think?

>>15593863
Except you aren't meeting with your 2 friends in your writing group really any longer and have you talked about how you need her to read everything you write, or does she demand it, with your psychiatrist, assuming you're still meeting with one. If you can't accept you who are and you censor your writing, then you're maiming yourself at best and how could ever expect to do well like that? Considering how long you've been blogging about this, I don't think you're ever going to resolve your problems because you don't want to really.

>>15593912
I really ought to do really more magazines. I've mostly only read F&SF and a few random issues of others. Interzone is a semi-pro magazine and I haven't read any. I have a collection of many magazines. If you the opinion of someone whose read them, then you can look at a magazine review site such as http://www.rocketstackrank.com/search?q=+interzone

>>15593936 That was a mess.

I really ought to read more magazines. I've mostly only read F&SF and a few random issues of others. Interzone is a semi-pro magazine and I haven't read any. I have a collection of many magazines. If you want the opinion of someone who has read them, then you can look at a magazine review site such as http://www.rocketstackrank.com/search?q=+interzone

>>15593917
anon, you are grossly misjudging the situation and twisting it into something even more revolting than it actually is

The simple fact is I want to find some way to change this plotline so it's less creepy or at least find a way to depict it tastefully so it doesn't set off warning bells

>>15593944
All you can do then is rewrite it. If it's lesser for it then you'll have to deal with that. Either way you'll have to accept the consequences of your actions.

Any good books about Illusion magic/tech? Something like Mysterio but maybe a protagonist.

>>15593956
anon I'm not blogging, I'm asking for help. I'm not sure how to rewrite it tastefully

>>15593991
You probably aren't able to do so, so you'll just have to remove the romantic aspect entirely.

>>15593964
You again.

>>15594102
ive never asked before :/

>>15593944
>>15593745
>wants it to be less creepy
>posted "it would be bad storytelling NOT to put her in a creepy-ass pedo relationship" earlier this month

>>15594113
Someone did earlier this week.

>>15594149
No, they didn't.

>>15594162
Check the archives before you lie and pretend this is the first time you're asking, newfag.

>>15594222
The onus is on you to prove that it happened. I did check.

>>15592780
Sarkicism, Church of the Second Hytoth, anything claustrophobic and explorationy like 10,000 years

>>15592780
The ones where the trannies took over.

>>15593964
Yeah... One of the authors of Starfist did something like this.. Yeah, The DemonTech Saga.. That's it.

Never read 'em, but they sound like exactly what your looking for anon.

>>15590140
The Silmarillion is where it's at. That some good shit.

>>15589595
Licinious trilogy

>>15589595
Contractor by Andrew Ball

>>15594532
Idk. Book 2 was disappointing. Felt like the plot didn’t really go anywhere and lacked any sense of an antagonist.

>>15588381
>Should I scrap it and start something else? I have Black Company ready to go.
I've not read Prince of Thorns but Black Company is great.

>>15593032
You’d give anything to switch places with him. Maybe if you weren’t such a miserable fuck someone would take an interest in you. Find God

Can I get horror charts, plz?

>>15586257
Oops, ha ha. I just realized that I accidentally put the wrong mega link in the OP. That's the old one.
https://mega.nz/folder/JrhSyY6S#7qmTPol52TnmpFOdbag7RQ
I don't know how that happened and why I didn't notice.

>>15594712
We don't have that shit here. Ask for something and you're bound to get a response though.

>>15594712
>>15595247
>>15594740

would it be less sexual if I toned down the toph-like personality and made her a black girl with dreads? Please for the love of god tell me that's better.

Any modern sci-fi or fantasy writers that haven't jumped on the virtue-signaling woke train for this round of crazy? I just wanna read and grill.

>>15593470
Pic related is very nice series. Read it.

>>15595493
Sorry you're going to have to accept that lesbians exist in fantasy universes as well.

>>15594489
But that's real life anon

>>15595493
Yes.
https://amazon.com/dp/B083FHRCPN

>>15594545
>Idk. Book 2 was disappointing
Book 2 is out?

What are the best books one could/should pick up in the SF Masterworks Collection?

>>15593470

>>15596593
They're masterworks all you can't go wrong

>>15596593
>SF Masterworks Collection
I am not sure a weeb such as yourself would appreciate them.

dude what if a protagonist had no internal or external voice lmao

>>15596757
That is actually a very interesting concept. I read something similar but we took the viewpoint of the people the protagonist interacted with, not randomly but usually a main one. I enjoyed it thoroughly but that is the only part of the book it stuck with me since i read it almost 2 decades ago....I wish I could remember the any or the story or anything but I fucking forgot, I do believe it was in a medieval setting but hat is about it. Either way it can be done right.

>>15596757
That's been done by various games.

>>15596608
Why does this shit keep popping up everywhere? Is the latest FotM book?

>>15597221
>popping up

It's one guy reposting it.

>>15592988
I wish I knew. It really is the best.

>>15596701
I see you like Eric Vall.

any fantasy series that has no romance?

>>15597387
Yes.

>>15597387
Sufficiently Advanced Magic

>>15597397
That doesn't have romance, it has fagmance.

>>15595247
I asked for horror charts, plz

>>15596996
>games
irrelevant

>>15597547
but it is barely touched on and not a major part of the book at any point.

>>15597661
Faggotry should never be endorsed.

>>15597221
>Why does this shit keep popping up everywhere?
It's just that good.

Name an actual good female fantasy author.

>>15597674
all romance shouldnt be endorsed as it add nothing of note

>>15597742

>>15597742
we've done this before, people list beloved and acclaimed authors with significant contributions to the genre's development and you just go "no they're bad"
you deserve the maasposting instead

>>15597758
Nah only faggot ones.

>>15597799
I didnt think i would find coomers on /lit/

>>15597865
Romance isnt merely about cooming you know.

>>15597937
romance is about being as boring as possible and fill pages with the same bullshit tropes

What does Green Mars focus on? I liked Frank, John, and Nadia but hated the rest of it, especially the last quarter about the revolution and the car trip. I really liked the building part with Nadia and the more political side with Frank and John. Should i read Green Mars?

>>15597952
This

>>15597952
Just because you never experienced it does not mean the rest of us have to suffer for your shortcomings.

>>15598167
Romance in real life has nothing in common with romance in literature.

>>15598187
Like you would know.

>>15598167
>because you never experienced
i have experienced it, its just not interesting in stories

I'm feeling pretty bored with alot of things at the moment, what's some good fantasy for this feel?

>>15599200
https://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/

Never thought I would have to read dinosaur books to get my gri fix.

>>15597742
emily rodda

>>15596701
You're not a weeb, no. You're some something worse. A coomer who reads trash tier self published authors.

>>15599751
>dinosaurs
>gri
Color me intrigued. What book?

>>15599884
Ed greenwood

>>15599921
>Ed greenwood
Oh. No thanks, i saw that NTR pasta.

>>15599931
>i saw that NTR pasta
????

>>15599836
>he has a problem with self published authors
NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BYPASS THE SYSTEMERINOOOO YOU HAVE TO BE VETTED BY THE TRANNY FAGGOTS AT THE PUBLISHING COMPANIES

>>15599984

>>15600000
Is that real?

>>15600000
What. The. Fuck. Did I Just Read?

>>15600029
>>15600030
Dark Lord by Ed Greenwood.
Never read it because of this pasta but some anon once posted excerpt from the first book where this is happening.
I only know the basic premise though. MC is a novelist and gets isekai'd into his novel because fairy tale land is turning evil or something.

>>15600000
yep

>>15600000
Hot.
May have to read it now that quints posted it.

We on page 10.

>>15589933
Sandy Mitchell's books.

>>15600000
Damn nigga idk about this one

>tfw I still haven't gotten back into the habit of writing every day
>tfw it will probably be years before my first draft is done

>think about posting what I think about each book I've read this year for the goodreads group
>at 58 books already
That is too much effort.

>>15600000
Reminded me of twizzlers at first. Sounds mad gay.

>>15601538
>only thing I write is my diary
Th-That's still good, right?

George R. R. Martin’s A Game of Thrones eschews traditional fantasy tropes to forge a bold new narrative that is, some say, beyond good and bad – beyond the language used to describe past fantasies. This being the case it becomes perhaps inevitable that the language Mr Martin uses to describe his fantasy is also, in a sense, beyond good and bad. Crudity becomes profound; clumsiness, poor vocabulary, dead metaphors, trite clichés, and a rejection of what traditionalists would call “taste” impart a pedestrian quality to the work that is essential to its very being. Tolkien developed an entire fictional language merely to add depth and verisimilitude to his epic fantasy adventure. The magnificence of his work - at its core a struggle between good and bad - borders on prophetic; although The Lord of the Rings was published after the Second World War, the clear majority was written prior to that calamity. It’s only fitting that the New Tolkien of our modern world has come to us bearing his own language. Mr Martin has gone even further beyond his predecessor, for his use of English is so indifferent to the straight-jacket of societal norms that descriptors like ‘insipid’ or ‘limp’ fail to capture the whole of its jagged edges – a rocky coastline that disguises hidden treasure in secret coves open only to those who know the way. Fittingly, as we move further into the 21st century, Mr Martin’s work is also prophetic. Yet it is also more mature than Tolkien’s feel-good romp across Middle Earth. Although Tolkien’s story, cast in shades of black and white, might have been appropriate for the jingoistic white male past - still wracked with such societal bugbears as “bringing the light of civilisation to the Dark Continent [Africa],” manifested through colonialism, Dr Livingstone, and the prophylaxis against malaria - Mr Martin’s work provides us with a vision of times yet to come: a vision of a modern world which is beyond producing heroes.

It is then only fitting that this tale of peasants and savages be told as a peasant savage might tell it. I turn to our first example:

>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

>>15601767
The vulgarity of this passage is immediately apparent. It is also deliberate – other ways could have been used to describe Daenerys’ (for it is she who is sick) misery, but the effect on the reader would not have been so great. Upon reading Mr Martin’s writing the reader is struck with such revulsion that one could scarcely believe any human being would want to be perceived as its architect, but Mr Martin’s dedication to his craft is absolute. Passages like this come as naturally to an artist of his ability as Mona Lisa to Da Vinci. See how the reader is led gently into horror: the activity is clued before it is described. “…squatting in the grass, groaning.” allows the reader to infer what is happening. The full stop provides a mental breather before he is hit with the “stool,” a detached and clinical word that withholds the full connotative force yet to come. “Looser,” and “fouler,” describe the “stool” and bring us nearly to the point that anyone who has read Mr Martin before knows we will interminably arrive at, and before long “shit” covers the page. The repetition in short intervals creates an onomatopoeic effect that ties the word with the sounds present in the scene. It is a description written from man to man - for the enjoyment of the modern smallfolk, for who among them couldn’t relate to a similar scene played out half-hidden behind a bush down in the CBD on a Friday night? It is this unflinching eye that makes Mr Martin’s work real. It is palpable. We can smell Daenery’s sickness. We can feel it. We don’t just experience the sickness, we are the sickness.

He builds on this mercilessly.

>Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your right, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs.

Crude? Yes – but undeniably effective. The awkwardness of the sentence structure serves to underscore the awkward position that Cersei (the eater of heirs) has found herself in. Furious and impotent, she is reduced to this awkward, furtive revenge. Mr Martin inspires the same furious impotence in his readers, who are similarly captive to his writing. Sentences like this pin the reader in the strange place between comedy and tragedy as surely as Cersei is pinned between the tragedy of her situation and the dark, sustaining comedy of her revenge. Mr Martin depicts sexuality continuously in a similarly raw manner. Whether it is Sam’s “fat pink mast” or Asha’s “cunt” Mr Martin is irreverent as he tears apart the thrill of romance. These descriptors lay bare the human – imperfect – element of love, which Mr Martin captures perfectly in his imperfect language. What could be more relevant to the modern serf, for whom the quest for “the one” has become merely the quest for “anyone?”

>>15601774
This ruthless abandonment of such virtuous things as “love” by Mr Martin is reflective of the deeper characteristics of his work, which can be construed as a ruthless abandonment of aesthetic virtues in literature. This window into malaise which has been so thoughtfully provided by Mr Martin for our examination today is more than just the greatest entry into Western Canon (as much as it pains me to use such a eurocentric term) in our lifetimes, but could perhaps be considered the best summation of the anglospheric zetigeist in generations. As this modern world changes ever more around us, and as we ever more change in an attempt to adapt to the ephemeral notionality of the ‘better life’ within it, Mr Martin’s portrayal of a feudal life - a pastoral dream remembered - is a most relevant and timely visitation. More than just the way this portrait has been rendered, in the browns of mud and feces and the red of blood and joyless animal sexuality, it is worth considering how this representation of our past differs from the reality of it. By recasting a world of colour and light as much as of violence and darkness in tones of ochre Mr Martin writes not from a place of authenticity, but to the place where his audience resides. In this way misguided critics of Mr Martin miss the most important piece in the puzzle of how a human being could hold these works up as novels at all, let alone achievements. Mr Martin has written us the best sellers that we deserve.

>>15601612
if you're not a writer than yes.

For me it's just a fuck-up. Honestly, a huge part of it is that I've been running into plotting problems that were holding me back, discouraging me, draining me or forcing me to reconsider. It's funny that I thought I had this story more or less figured out months ago, but now I realize there's so many things that are going off the rails. To date, I still don't really have a personality for my villain besides "populist evil overlord who collects hands"

>>15601807
Does he need more of a personality? Not everyone needs to be a deep well of labyrinthine psychosocial complexity. It's strange from the perspective of a creative type, but some (maybe even lots) of people have nothing going on under the hood.

>>15601830
honestly, I'm not sure how much he does need. I want him to be pretty serious compared to the rest of my characters, but he feels like an entity that's evil incarnate rather than a character who has his own agenda and happens to be evil

I was sort of inspired by general grevious, so maybe I should take more inspiration from him. Even if he's as evil overlordy as you get he has pet peeves, hobbies, nagging health problems. my character's actually a much smaller creature hiding inside a zombie's skull so maybe I should play with that. Show his fear of discovery, his attempts to hide his secret weakness

working on a fantasy trilogy

But with blacks and mutts as the main characters

I think I'm good enough at branding to get it popular in tha streets.

>>15601609
>only read 58 books so far
Noob

>take final chapter
>call it the epilogue
That was unexpectedly cringe, as was Shandy kissing someone's wife every 150 pages and then getting attacked by the husband that appeared unintroduced and then vanished just as quickly. The second time served a sort-of purpose. Anyway it was pure kino apart from that, pirates are unquestionably based and voodoo is cool too.

>>15602286
You should read will wight pirate voodoo series.

>>15586326

You're welcome.

>>15590034
You're 77k words in and have a completed story arc? That's a book, man. A short book, but a book.

I'd suggest wrapping it up and starting an editing pass to see if you can get it to better match the story in your head. If you still feel it's unredeemable shit, put it away and be satisfied with the knowledge that you finished something. If the creative juices start flowing again, you can always extend it.

I dont Read as much as i want because i cant find anyrhing.

Need a book for my camping trip
Recommend me 1 book/series

>>15603616
Midnight in Chernobyl

>>15603616
Roadside picnic

>>15602950
>A short book, but a book
What is the average word count for a normal sized book?

What's everyone reading that is not discuss in here?

>>15604025

>>15604025
just started rereading otherland, still good

>>15604025
i just finished use of weapons. I didnt really enjoy it desu, felt like a slog

>just finished WoT
>I want to die reading this
>but at least it had a good ending. Rand finally being fucking free from these control freaks. I've never been so happy for a character to get out of the retards in his life

>>15604422
same man. Im glad rand is free from his burdens
how do you feel about the series in general?

Why doesn't Amazon have a filter to remove female authors from the sff tab?
I'm fed up of searching for new books and having to pass 20 fucking romance novel because I get to actual sff. If I wanted romance I would search for that you piece of shits amazon.

Is it shit?

>>15604462
Yes.

>>15604462
I enjoyed it.

>>15604462
No. It's a completely adequate book.

>>15604506 Shit
>>15604564 Good
>>15604570 Adequate

Well I'm torn.

I have three weeks off work so this is a great opportunity to pick up one of those long books

>>15604025
Spin by R C Wilson
It's alright, but there's more character drama than sci-fi.

>>15604588
I just read this recently. I agree with you. Wasn't expecting it to be so character focussed. But I did like it though. Very readable. 3/5

>>15604447
I've started too hate detailed descriptions now because of this series. They weren't kidding at all about the description dump. RJ's writing style is wonderful if he isn't detailing every linen, fabric, and texture.
The walls texts were tiring to read, especially when the only purpose of said texts is just someone combing her fucking hair or eventually pulling her braid. Overall, my only satisfaction with the series is the the acceptance of the farm boy into becoming a messiah-figure for everyone and fulfilling said duties.
tl;dr it's okay.

Are Peter F Hamilton's books as shit as the covers make them look?

>>15604711
Fallen dragon, Night Dawns trilogy, commonwealth saga are only good works of PFH.

>>15604764
You've really read them all? (because how else would you know they're not as good as the ones you've named)

>>15604782
Yes, Greg mandel was also ok but felt dated. I have read everything of his upto Salvation, that was just pozzed.

>>15604794
Can I start with the dreaming void? the plot sounds more intriguing to me than pandora's star

>>15604805
You can but many things will be unclear. If you like the feeling of being lost and confused then start with the Void.

>>15604574
reamde is better. But not sci fi

>>15604852
ah drat. so i have to read 2000 pages (and remember it all) before i can even start the dreaming void.

>>15604025
Reading the 3rd book of the Traitor Son series, the Dread Wyrm.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed here. It’s not bad. The MC starts off as an edge lord but develops pretty nicely by the second book, the magic system is solid, the plot is interesting, and the author is autistic when it comes fighting and armor. I’ve just never seen it discussed here before.

any good space operas come out in the last few years?

>>15605221
no

>>15605119
There’s a couple autistic anons who killed discussion of it for not being rapey enough. It was enjoyable enough. I just wish it did more with the things it hinted at.

has anyone read pic related?

>>15605119
I got bored on that book, could only take so many large scale battles at once.

Kinda made me understand why lotr has so much walking to break up the big scale stuff

The mega links is down. Party is over boys.

Why are most books in this website full of spelling mistakes? where can I get "good" properly edited version of the books?
https://b-ok.lat/

>>15605389
super early e-book transcription was fan done and thus very sloppy
early professional stuff was done quickly and with little oversight so there were still erros (pratchett famously had one absolutely full of transcription errors)
even now some mistakes slip through

Probably nothing to do with the site in question

>>15604574
>>15604462
If you like Delta V's and submarine and space babies, then you might enjoy it.

>>15605119
>I don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed her
You don't see it discussed here because the first book was utter shit.

>>15605370
Then we go back to the old format.

Fantasy:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/0935e4cd59/105363.jpg
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21328.jpg

Science Fiction:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/def184ad8f/124507.jpg
https://imgoat.com/uploads/b44928ae11/114401.jpg
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21332.jpg
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21330.jpg

NPR's Top 100 Science Fiction & Fantasy Books:
https://imgoat.com/uploads/6d767d2f8e/21333.jpg

SF&F author listing with ratings and summaries:
http://greatsfandf.com/authors-full-list.php

Finding authors that are similar to what you read.
https://www.literature-map.com/

>>15605828
It really wasn’t though. Also what’s up with that list?

>>15605470
I see. Well then I just have to search harder for newer versions.

>>15605917
>It really wasn’t though
Then you have shit tastes.

Fuck E William Brown

>>15605985
>>15588871
>E William Brown
seriously though who is he and why does /lit/ hate him

>>15605995
Hes writing some harem novel thing but apparently theres one anon who hates that he writes really slowly and hides his updates and progress behind a paywall or something.
Just ignore the guy. Its literally just one person obsessed with him.

>>15605960
yeah, I pirate via irc so it's sometimes hard to tell which version is newer and the old ones are almost always formatted worse

Like I had a copy of the first thomas covenant book that had gigantic margins no matter what settings you used on an ereader

>>15606005
Actually there are three of us.

>>15605969
List 5 reasons why it was shit.

>>15590034

Ive been there fren. Try something new. Look at it a few month later. You might have fucked up because you dont have enough XP but there might be some redeeming qualities that drove you on during writing.

>>15606169
>trying to discuss a shit book
I see what you're doing, you'll answer my points and give why you think they are great. Fine, but this is the last (you) you're getting from me. This shit has been discussed to death.

>stupid dual religion and the contradictions that lay within
>mercenaries not behaving like mercenaries
>protagonist wears a fedora (not actually, but his behavior)
>no nuns were raped, not even that head milf that was running in her cunny for dick
Those are only four but I have't read the book in five+ years, I forgot a lot of stuff, and the hate I had towards it has eased, but I still remember not to read anything else by the author.

Does anyone know any good books that are like pic related? I want to read something absolutely miserable and dark, something that will make me hate humanity.

Sci-fi and fantasy are both fine. I just want to brood.

>>15603822
Obviously there are no hard and fast rules, and things vary by genre (fantasy is usually on the longer end, thrillers and mysteries on the shorter). I've heard that 80k words is generally a good average for most genres, but fantasy is enough of a standout that I'd classify 77k as "short."

>>15606329
> I want to read something absolutely miserable and dark, something that will make me hate humanity
Not really Sci-fi or fantasy, but;
The Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti could be what you are after.

Early Gibson is excellent. Are there any similar authors that emphasize setting and detail to such a great extent?

Shame about the trash that are his later/current works. We should all know when to stop.

>>15606329
Iron Dragon's Daughter was sad.

>>15606600
I'm >>15604034 and I'm barely over halfway. Is it much of the same?

>>15588539
where is the art from?

>>15606677
tumblr

>>15606611
I don't remember, read it over two years ago. But the plot moves on.

>The Black Company
or
>Shadow and Claw

What should I read first?

>>15606792
Shadow and Claw

>>15605847
>>15605370
>>15594740

Are magazines like pic related still a thing?

Any links to any websites like those old magazines?

>>15607040
internet archive has loads of magazines in their archives, look there if you want the originals

>>15607049
What about modern versions, that are still printing new content?

>>15607424
I believe Analog and Asimov magazines still have print magazines similar to that, but I don't think they're long for this world.

>>15603616
Solaris
Hell's Gate (David Weber)
Alien Novelization (Alan dean Foster)
Downbelow Startion (CJ Cherryh)
Pedro Paramo

>>15607424
http://www.rocketstackrank.com/2019/01/finding-science-fictionfantasy-magazine.html

>>15588860
Steel world is the worst book I've ever read from these charts.

there are far too many anons who seem to be intentionally incompetent in this thread

>>15605828
I read fortress frontier and it was inofensive if a bit haphazard. Am I not seeing something?

>>15607799
It's a troll chart.

>>15607808
nah that guy is sincere if a bit of a weirdo in terms of taste

replies with bad information are worse than no replies at all

>>15607708
>None offer physical to UK

Fuck this stupid island.

>>15607808
>anything someone else doesn't like and I like is a troll

>>15607799
Did you read all four books? Read the Trilogy and the prequel, then come back to me if it's good.

>>15607867
>uk
Have you considered InterZone?

>>15608286
>InterZone

I would rather sit on a spike.
Thank you for the suggestion though.

>>15607999
Yeah I read them, fortress frontier is defiantly the best one of them. The first one is fine as well but it's rather poorly paced. Third one is nonsense and the flashbacks are not important, yet makes up close to half the fucking book. Fortress Frontier didn't have the on-off pacing of the first book as well as the ANIME EPIC FINAL BATTLE that the third one was in it's entirety. It's not anything to write home about but for urban fantasy with "semper-fi" dudebro-ing It was fine with some fun power exploration. I didn't actually know there was anything other than the trilogy so I haven't read the prequel.

>>15608329
Egads!

>>15608341
The list supposed to be avoid the authors of those books.

>>15608329
Zoinks but unironically.

>>15608416
>Title is BOOKS to avoid
>Picking the second book of a series to represent the works as a whole
Or maybe the chart is shit?

>>15608634
Yes. It's a chart with shit books.
Myke Cole fucked up his character choice. Bookbinder would have been a better protagonist. He actually used his powers in an interesting way.

>>15604462
It's 1/5 mediocre books, I'd only bother with it if you have a hard on for near-future hard scifi

>>15609288
*1.5 books

I'll qualify that by saying that the extra 0.5 is effectively an epilogue that long outstays its welcome

>You can't make your setting too unique or the audience won't be able to relate
Who came up with this retarded idea anyway?

>>15609509
The people who watch that cartoon you posted.

I have nothing to read. Please for something fun and with engineering.

>>15609599
devices and desires :)

>>15609632
>devices and desire
That is some urban fantasy shit.

>>15609684
kj parker not pd james

I have come to realize that nearly every SF/F book I have wholeheartedly enjoyed involves some degree of time travel. I also have not read a book involving time travel that I have not liked. Is this survivorship bias, or is time travel a cheat code for good books?

>>15609840
You read Stainless Steel Rat Saves the World? The actual timetravel plot that takes up most of the book sucks but oh man is it worth it for the punchline gag at the end.

>>15605917
It's a random selection of books within the genre. This is a tried and true method of trolling, because the brain instinctively rejects improper categorization, and random grouping takes no effort at all.

>>15609840
The only way to find out is to read random time travel books and see what you think about them.

>>15609890
Just an absolute treat to converse with you sir.

>>15609840
this is how you lose the time war
bones of the earth
postwatch
The Accidental Time Machine
Gods, Monsters, and the Lucky Peach
the forever war
hollow world

N
E
W
>>15610070
>>15610070
>>15610070
>>15610070
>>15610070
T
H
R
E
A
D

>>15609867
>I liked these books, so this is a tried and true method of trolling