/lit/ - Literature

Interesting take for sure.
t. nominally muslim

Interesting. Reminds me of Rene Girard's take on Catholicism (or maybe it was Catholicisms take on Rene Girard).

>>15578145
>through the murder of the father and the ensuing guilt as bringing brothers together
sounds here a bit like, dare i say it, rene girard? he's positing islam as christianity without any of the good parts

>>15579621
>>15579677
good lord i promise i didnt read your post before i made mine. good lookin brother

>>15578145
>Thoughts?
yeah i think religion posters should just fuck off to another board. /x/ maybe

>>15579677
Zizek is definitely not positive about Islam, as unlike most leftists he sees it as a force of reaction that contributed heavily to the defeat of communism. If you look at one of the latest Taliban videos, they name communism along with democracy, atheism and secularism as satanic ideology, they look at their struggle against America as a continuation of their struggle against the USSR, to them it's all the same thing

>>15578145
Why the fuck do even people in the middle of a fucking warzone care about this guy?

>>15579725
American media is a true cancer and the enemy of everything good and holy in the world

>>15579725
Secularist militants and Muslim Brotherhood try to get support from the American Democratic Party, whereas al-Qaeda and ISIS hate America as much as Russia.

>>15578145
>Event which gives vitality to Islam
It's not an "event", it's just desperate young men living in a shithole.
Of course they have more vitality than fat spoiled Westerners.

>>15579725
American culture is more virulent than any virus.

I'm not sure I understand what he is saying.
Father (or mother) figures also exist in so many more religions. Even politeistic ones. It seems natural to me that when humans mix the ideas of a world creator and a judge of morals, you may subconsciously attribute a parent-like image.
How is Islam different?
In the example he gives, when the mother or the child are abandoned or ignored by the biological father, and Allah appears. Is he not adopting a father figure there?

>>15579705
I mean, they're not wrong

>>15579725
I'll give you a hint: they wrote ENGLISH writing on it

>>15579621
>>15579677
>>15579684
https://forgingploughshares.org/tag/rene-girard/
Here's some good Christian takes on Girard. Although this thread has me thinking that I have not heard of any Islamic thinkers trying to grapple with Girard. The other Rene G. sure, but OP is the first I've heard of any attempt to analyze Islam in that manner. Where is >>15578145 from anyways?

>>15579725
Funding and good PR.

>>15579705
Every time I hear about the Taliban I like them a little bit more.

>>15579725
People keep saying muh American "culture" but really it's just standard progressivism.

>>15579705
Based Taliban.
They fight bacha bazi, but also fight both communism and capitalism. How more based can you get.

Honestly, reading the Bible, Muslims are better Christians than Christians themselves.

>>15579705
Wtf I love Islam now.

>>15578145
You people blow Islam out of proportion. I notice that a lot of critiques against Islam is actually directed at the wahhabist school of thought rather than Islam itself. Which is a recent invention that was spread alongside zionism. Coincidence huh?

>>15580110
Islamic civilization was pretty cool. Read the history of the ottoman empire and the Middle East during the 19th century. It was unironically based and redpilled.

>>15580110
>wahhabist school
maybe so but this critique effectively includes any abrahamic religion that rejects jesus' dying on the cross

>>15578145
>blah blah blah ideology
>btw subscribe to my ideology

>>15580110
Wahhabism is the only form of Islam that matters, similar to how Protestantism is the only form of Christianity that matters. Both are distillations of the core point of the religion and its philosophies, and both are the only forms of the religion that have the stones to actually try to assert their continued existence.

Ironically, their existence only hastens the demise of the religion, as Wahhabism has done more to spread Liberalism in the Dar al-Islam than Jews, the US, and Britain ever could, just as Protestantism brings Liberalism with it wherever it goes, but that's a different point.

Whatever meme-Sufi Islam you have a boner for is completely and totally irrelevant.

>>15580141
>Protestantism is the only form of Christianity that matters

>>15580175
>t. lives in a """"""""""""catholic"""""""""""" country where 99.99% of the population is self avowed atheists, who has never set foot in a church, whose country's bishops are all self avowed homosexual atheists

>>15578145
I think I need to read that 10 more times with a sober mind to comment on the actual substance, however my general sense finds it roughly in the truth. My only argument against it would be it’s final point regarding to outward inception of the father. It would seem to me that the people with knowledge of the father would not have it deracinated, religiously divorced etc, the father would be an absolute concrete figure and would culturally dominate as an inherent part of the son. A yearning should be forgone for a knowledge that has been found.

>>15578145
Christianity was 'vital' during the crusades, and Islam was kind of not doing much for a few centuries.

>>15580077
you obviously haven't read the bible to say something so stupid

>>15579800
i think you're mistaken in that you placed the subconscious connection of god to a father after the creation of said god, ie as an afterthought.

>>15580180
Yet even in such conditions Catholicism continues to thrive and exert influence on society at large.

In protestant countries, people go to church four times a week, speak in tongues, and witness daily on demand miracles through prime time TV, even homosexuals refer to Jesus as justification for their lifestyle, every politician talks genuinely of universal love and compassion... and they still manage to turn it into a soulless atheistic hell-hole.

If you embody religious practice, then it becomes second nature. If a community embodies religious practice, it doesn't matter much if 90% of them are closet atheists.

>>15580200
Islam managed to seize Rome as a result of the crusades, with substantial Christian help of course, but still.

>>15580208
I have read the Bible. And how is it stupid?

I'm obviously not talking about ISIS.

>>15578145
I have to not hear Zizek in my head when I read this, or else I can't understand it.

>>15580180
It's literally the most cucked form of Christianity

>>15579725
Because social media is omnipresent. It’s the God of the 21st century

>>15580141
>religion is about muh politics or else it doesn't matter
i consider protestantism a cancer worse than wahhabism. Unironically destroyed the west. I'm only interested in theology personally.

>>15580110
No in fact it's not and you don't know what it is and are probably stupid enough to think the House of Saud is Wahhabi (in Wahhabi thought, assisting infidels in fighting against Muslims is apostasy, so the House of Saud are considered apostates by al-Qaeda and ISIS a)

Wahhabism is significant mainly for this belief, as it makes them declare most rulers apostates, but this belief long predates Wahhabism

>>15580328
Seriously? You realize the strongest and richest country this world has ever seen was built by large majority Protestant?

>>15580717
Being rich and financially dominant is meaningless compared to spirituality, and in fact you are confusing having abundant land and natural resources (so many you need massive importation of slaves, later immigrants, to work the land as the labor to land ratio is far too low) with no competition and Protestantism.

>>15579842
Why do you think 'progressivisim" has taken specifically American cultural and political issues as its primary signigfiers? Most other countires have their own specific cultural fights between conservatives and reactionaries and liberals ans socialists etc- yet it is specifically the American flashpoints that spread worldwide.

>>15580863
>Being rich and financially dominant is meaningless compared to spirituality,
Tell that to China

>>15578145
Is that mural not bordering on racist?

>>15578145
It makes a lot of theological assumptions that I don't think are universally agreed upon.

>>15579705
>they name communism along with democracy, atheism and secularism as satanic ideology,
does that make them neo-reactionaries?

>>15580891
China is going to get undone by ISIS just as the USSR was by Afghanistan

>>15580923
I don't think they would use that term, they would just say Muslims

>>15580717
Yes but they also have no culture and kikes control their economy.

>>15580940
>China is going to get undone by ISIS just as the USSR was by Afghanistan
Wake up dude. China is not the USSR.
>Yes but they also have no culture and kikes control their economy.
Ever heard of Hollywood? ffs get out of your mom's basement lol

>>15580899
No, it's just how he looked

>>15579735
>arabs burning homosexuals alive is holy

>>15580899
Was drawn by POC so no its not

>>15581358
Yes

>>15582558
basado

>>15581358
>نعم

>>15578145
what is the point of this statement
he just made a bunch of wild assertions

>>15578145
the man who wrote "our cause etc" is 10× more intelligent than zizek or the george floyd protesters outside of the USA. that "memorial" is an attempt at expanding americanization by already americanized teenagers. it spreads like a fucking disease and it's way worse than religious fanaticism.

>>15582811
That's Freudian method

>>15580284
works the other way around for me kek

>>15582882
Islamist rebel factions mostly oppose even American help as they are concerned Syria will become part of the American cultural empire or another base

lol at all these big boy words, just kill all Muslims instead of huffing your own gas for being 160iq.

>>15578145
All I'm getting out of this is that he barely even has an entry level understanding of Abrahamic theology. Zizek never ceases to disappoint me

>>15579785
Clearly you don't know about Islam in democratic, peaceful countries. They are RABID. They won't stop until the whole world bows before Allah. They must be stopped immediately.

>>15582990
>NOOOOO!

>>15582979
>t. Shlomo mordecai yahuda

>>15582990
that's just false , otherwise you wouldn't have christians, jews and zoroastrians in muslim countries. a bunch of terrorists trying to convert the whole world is just an effect of their ressentiment against the western power.

>>15582990
Half of all Muslims in the UK said they never visited a mosque their entire lives.

>>15582990
That could still have more to do with the fact that they're brown people with a low social status and Islam for them is just a tribal identity that unites them.

I imagine early Christians in Europe had a similar "vitality", because they were inspired by a mission. Same with the crusaders, later on.

>>15583065
This uae, turkey, morroco, Algeria, even iran of all places have Christian and Jewish minorities.

>>15583075
Dream on, retard. I live with these cunts, I've seen it for myself.
>>15583065
Yeah places with sharia law where you have no true freedom and they can fuck you up on a whim and you would have zero support from the government
>>15583079
I'm sure they live blissfully with total freedom like their non shithole Western country counterparts

>>15583069
Not praying in Islam is apostasy. You are confusing ethnicity with Muslims

>>15583131
That flew over my brain.

>>15582811
Welcome to the desert of the Zizek.

>>15583148
Look up what an apostate is. You can sort of claim a cultural Islamicism similar to cultural Christianity, but it's not like Judaism where there's a chosen people. Having food rules doesn't make it more than a religion.

>>15583122
Most of the places Israel is really angry with, like Lebanon and Jordan, are comfy.

>>15581358
Sodomites burning the holiest you can get.

>>15583148
Comprehende?

>>15582990
You've obviously never talked to muslims in peaceful democratic countries.

>>15583582

>>15583211
Source of this? I've never heard such things

>>15583593
Not wanting the state to turn their daughters into whores and their sons into homosexuals doesn't make them "rabid".
The problem is lax Westerners are too willing to let a clique of 'professionals' force all kinds of weird fads on their children because they can't handle the pressure of actually raising them themselves.

>>15583603
Ibn Qudamah.

>>15579705
>>15578145
based

>>15580241
Muslims are not better Christians than Christians because they don't believe in the most central aspects of Christianity: the divinity of Christ, the the purification of sin, etc.

>>15583640
Thanks. Not representative of mainstream Islam however.

>>15583785
It's representative of Hanbali fiqh. Maliki and Shafi'i fiqh also prescribe death although it's not considered apostasy so Muslim burial is permitted. Hanafi prescribed public humiliation. Based on daleel, Hanbali school has the correct position on this particular point

>>15580070
They also torch poppy fields

>>15580070
Very based
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Omar

>>15580209
>the creation of said god
Hahaha

>>15580940
>China beaten by mudslimes
That would be really funny.

>>15584117
how would that happen realistically tho?

>>15584144
It's preposterous and can't happen unless they start behaving like Europe