/lit/ - Literature

>>15582556
Haven’t you already got your answer in the past three times you asked this question

>>15582556
You're mom

Are cartoons cinemas?

>>15582556
These threads serenade the end of /lit/. Watch.

>>15582556
Actual good VN literature is not going to get translated because it doesn't sell i.e. WA2 and Muramasa

>>15582556

>>15582969
We can only pray for fan translations. Or learn moon runes

>>15583024
it's better do learn Japanese
translators are just that, translators
it's difficult to successfully translate something that has great prose into a different language while keeping that prose unless you're a writer yourself, or have an extreme amount of experience

>>15582556
Everything is literature. A gum wrapper can be literature.

>>15583058
>Everything is literature.
weak bait

>>15582969
Is Muramasa based and redpilled, as they say?

KNS is bad, yes. A good deal of VN recommendations on 4channel are pretty weak.
I found subahibi life changing. Higurashi also had a strong effect on me but that probably had to do with the time I played it. Suda’s VNs (silver case, 25th ward) are also worth checking out.
Aside from that I haven’t been impressed with the VNs I’ve read

>>15583319
>I found subahibi life changing.
kek

>noooo, not the heckin cute girlerinos in my gory murder mystery

>>15583385
Source on pic?

>>15583319

>KNS is bad, yes

OH NO NO NO NO

>>15582556
>anime novel

>>15583319
Higurashi was great right up to Chapter 6, which has a simple and straightforward message - which Ryukishi07 then undercuts immediately in Chapter 7. As always, the answers to mysteries are never as interesting as the mysteries themselves.

>>15583294
it's good, but overhyped

>>15584302
what makes it good?

I read a few dozen VNs in lieu of western genre fiction and I would say they are pretty decent at that, but none of them really espoused anything deep. It was just the classical formulas involving time loops and amnesia and twists to keep the reader interested. Even if the author sets out to say something it becomes lost because of the multi girl route nature of most of them. The one I would say was most effective was Planetarian, simple, short, and tightly written. The other I felt worthy of praise was Kindred Spirits on the Roof, but that's only if you like lesbians.

But I do think the format of visual novels is the future for genre fiction and selling genre fiction even to westerners.

>>15584216
I agree that the mystery’s answer is unsatisfying. Although for me the appeal of higu was never the plot, so I didn’t mind it . Although like you said, the mystery itself is always more interesting, so I didn’t have any expectations that set me up for disappointment. The core of higu was elsewhere

>>15584310
- complex anti-hero protagonist
- alternate 20th century history setting with self-conscious flying samurai mechas
- themes of evil, justice and vengeance explored with unusual depth
- fight scenes detailing tactics, martial arts history, sword angles, complexity of katana duels at length
- the writer generally trying to embrace bushido aesthetics

still, it's not that great

KnS1 isn't very good story wise. Atmosphere, art, and music are among the best.
KnS2 is much better. It's far more fleshed out and fixes most of the stupid shit from the first one.
I have high hopes for KnS3. It might be the last big budget kamige ever made, given how the traditional Japanese VN market is going extinct due to Gacha.

>>15583294

Tekkaman?

Thoughts on Muv Luv? Does it deserve the hype?

>>15582832
can you be serious?
this is /lit/

>>15582556
They're not amazing, but visual novels are still better than YA novels.

>>15585162
It's wroth reading if you're willing to put in the time.

>>15582969
>Actual good VN literature is not going to get translated
>i.e. WA2 and Muramasa
Why are your two examples things that are being translated then?

>>15582556
I posted in your past 3 or 5 threads. Having a VN thread every once in a while is nice, but your got your fucking answer at this point. Go to /jp/ if you want to talk about VNs so badly.

>>15585416
>can you be serious?
>this is /lit/

Yeah and on /lit/ we talk about books not anime games... Where are the jannies when you actually need them?

>>15582832
it's just a legitimate question for this board, you dumb

>>15585162
I found no reason to give a shit about any of the characters until the story started developing in Unlimited and Alternative. But yes it is worth it if you can make it through the first VN.

>>15585711
>But yes it is worth it if you can make it through the first VN.

Who wastes their time on a 10 - 30 hour VN just because supposedly it gets slightly better in the sequels? That's the ultimate cucked experience.

>>15584334
>Planetarian
I tried this on recommendation but found it incredibly boring and still haven't picked it up and finished it yet. The NPC is boring and annoying and the protagonist is not quite relatable. World building is so so. Plot also seems predictable but I haven't finished it yet admittedly. Why is it great?

>>15586556
The thing takes ninety minutes to read, I don't even know what to say. It's just a nice little story about how civilization is fragile and at risk of death. The robot is a nice avatar for the unsullied world which makes the ending poignant.

>>15584334
>>15586556

You guys should try Narcissu

>>15586614
90 minutes of grinding through bland dialogue, yeah, sounds fun man

VNs can be entertaining but they'll never reach the literature status of books
most of the problem comes from H scenes, that shit takes you out of the story very fast, and pointless
and then there's slice of life nonsense padding
bad ends
multiple routes
they just have too much fat on them all the time, no vn should be 50+ hours but they exist

>>15587038
You realize that VNs are a new medium right? So what they currently are doesn't mean that's what they always will be. I agree that a lot of current trends and tropes in VNs are holding them back (bloated text, H-scenes, shitty anime tropes); but that doesn't mean as a medium they are stuck to those things. Eventually they will probably evolve past that.

>>15582611
OP wants to ride on the coattails of the guy who posts MGS2/Silent Hill 2 threads and asks "Is this /lit/?"

>>15587038
>>15587058
>vns without h-scenes
Hard pass. Can you think of another medium where you can read an entertaining story and have a good coom to cute anime girls from actual sex scenes instead of teasing fanservice?

>>15587058
VNs are new but they're certainly not THAT new. They've had plenty of time to get the porn and anime cliches out of their system before trying to do something truly special with it.

>>15587058
I'm inclined to disagree, having read a few of the so-called best ones, I think they're always gonna be held back by the stuff that they're expected to be
chinky porn books or feel good slice of life dating sims, they'll always be that way because that's what the market demands
MuvLuv is 30 hours of nonsense to build up to something somewhat interesting and it's still just porn and mechs in the end, the payoff is kind of cool in the moments you're receiving it but it's ultimately not worth it
Subahibi is hilariously edgy and while interesting, definitely has completely unnecessary porn shit going on
Fate is typical shounen battle stuff, they literally stop in the middle of running from a life threatening attack to have sex "to transfer mana" because that was what was expected (to be fair Nasu was pushed very hard into it, it was originally supposedly not going to have h-scenes)
Umineko has some fantastic sound design and takes full advantage of the medium, but at the end of the day it's still absolutely ridiculous and it was discussed earlier itt that the mystery content itself is much better than the answer
and it's also around 80 fucking hours and the biggest murder was its own pacing

>>15587067
and then you have guys like this who don't care
to resolve both problems they can release fandiscs or something, just having h scenes most of the time feels very forced and the entire point of the story is just to rub one out.
it's really taking you out of any plot if the whole thing just gets reduced to porn in the end, I can't take pretty much any vn seriously because they mostly do this shit

>>15587075
>They've had plenty of time to get the porn and anime cliches out of their system before trying to do something truly special with it.

The problem is that they were stuck in Nipland for so long, and Japanese don't even have a good word for VNs. They just call them all "eroge". Meaning it was westerners who popularized the term and conception visual novel. And in the west the medium is still too new, it doesn't even have a real marketable audience aside from weebs. Which is really just riding the coattails of eroge. It's once VNs fully separate their identity from eroge that they can make their first series steps as a medium.

>>15587100
that's part of the problem, although some of them are supposed to be "nakige" (crying game) or "utsuge" (depressing/melancholy game) are still mostly loaded with porn, dunno how you're supposed to feel sad but also jerk off

like I said before, a lot of stuff without h-scenes is still ridiculously long. or even worse, it's otomege which is for girls placing yourself in a male harem, that shit also has a lot of gay scenes as well
stuff like umineko has no h either but the fanbase is absolutely filled with trannies and it's literally just memes 24/7, nobody cares to actually discuss the meta elements anymore

>>15587123
I'm ashamed to admit it but my first exposure to Umineko was through autistic power level debates on /a/, then I actually played it and I'm wondering when these characters are gonna punch apart Universes.

>>15587090
Despite the fact that we are on opposing sides of this debate, I agree with many of your sentiments. You said that you read many of the good ones such as Muvluv, Suba Hibi, Fate, and Umineko.

Personally this is where I deviate a bit from the VN fandom, but I think Muvluv is a waste of time and Fate is sacrilegious for not even trying to accurately portray the hysterical/mythological figures it portrays. On top of already being poorly written. Umineko is great, but I agree with your criticisms of it. And I also love Suba Hibi, but again agree with your criticisms.

If you want VN recommendations which have minimal bullshit I would recommend Narcissu and Swan Song. Both are entertaining from start to finish, and have poignant themes to them. They are the closest to quality literature I have found so far.

I would also include Sayonara wo Oshiete in that category, but unless if you can read Japanese its inaccessible. If you can read Japanese though, would highly recommend this one as well.

>>15582969
You guys say this about every game until it gets translated.

>>15587169
funny enough I didn't care about that part at all, I found it incredibly boring and long winded
r07 doesn't know how to quit sometimes
what interested me was just the mystery itself (although I got spoiled on the culprit) and the meta story revealed slowly through the future stuff happening

I've never really been on /a/, I just have weeb friends

>>15587183
> Fate is sacrilegious for not even trying to accurately portray the hysterical/mythological figures it portrays
yup, Rider just being medusa makes no sense, King Arthur is female just to have sex with (although again Nasu was forced into that one, originally fate has a female protagonist with a male king arthur servant)

I enjoyed subahibi tons most of the time, but a lot of it was me sitting there wondering what the point was to a lot of it (it didn't have one) and the philosophy dumping was pretentious as hell in my opinion

I had been sort of meaning to check out both of those two, but I just don't really get the draw of vns that much.
despite reading a few I still don't think they're much special, subahibi and umineko were the best and they still feel lacking in retrospect
that said I am learning the moonrunes and reading currently totono in japanese because it was talked up by my friends who read it, and I have to say I'm not very impressed so far but I haven't gotten to the meta aspects of it

it was also recently translated and that shit is a travesty what they did to some bits of it

>>15587193
not to be a massive weeaboo but translation fucking blows dicks most of the time, just from comparing shit like the opening of totono I know it's god awful now
another good example would be house in fata morgana, I haven't read it but I saw an excerpt by one of the translators that translated a bit of it that uses the word "tsundere" as "fragile male ego"

there are some things that can't be conveyed the same in english but to do that is to miss the meaning entirely and there's no way to know the author's original intent

also muramasa and white album are both long as fuck, I think muramasa is supposed to be like a 100 hour vn or some nonsense, fucking nitro+
that said most of the shit I had read in english I'm not inclined to read again in japanese, and it's also a complete bullshit language and quite a mess, I blame it being based on chinese for that

>>15587038
>bad ends
These are great.

>>15587239
pretty sad actually, some of the "bad ends" are better than the real ones
like instead of shirou sticking to what he thinks in mind of steel he simps for a literal used up goods magic slut
it's like the author is afraid to actually pick something so he goes for a more generic happy end instead of leading something to its logical conclusion

>>15582855
Yes they are

>>15587286
>like instead of shirou sticking to what he thinks in mind of steel he simps for a literal used up goods magic slut
... what? if you mean the "sparks liner high" bad end, that was originally supposed to be the true end, until something lead nasu to dismiss the idea and make it a bad end.

>>15587038
I agree, H scenes suck in type moon stuff. Play subahibi, where the H scenes are subverted into becoming some of the most disturbing content you can come across that drive the characters into insanity

>>15587798
dumb pic desu

>>15588164
>VNs normally portrays rape in a titillating manner for you to fap to
>Game instead portrays it as bad and traumatic
Woah so revolutionary.... also I fapped to Zakuro's rape and bullying scenes.

>>15588200
I also fapped to Takuji's bullying H-scene.

>>15588218
Epic

Depends on the definition of "literature"

Saya no Uta is on the same level as any other Lovecraftian fiction, and manages to have a unique take on the genre as well. The idea that it's not literature because it's a game is pretty silly I think.

>>15588950
saya has the fat trimmed, so it's much better in that regard
same as kikokugai the Cyber Slayer
also the ending where they use liquid nitrogen to shit on saya and kill her is the best one

>>15588991
Well it's based on a genre dominated by short stories after all. Hanachirasu is also good if you haven't read it. It's by the writer of Muramasa.

>>15583851
Most VNs don't have any animation at all.
>inb4 anime is just jap doodles with big eyes

>>15584481
Judging from that description, it seems like a mishmash of tropes and clichés that appear in anime/manga/LNs.

Maybe I should rewatch Koihime Musou.

>>15587205
>I've never really been on /a/, I just have weeb friends
How'd you get into VNs in the first place?

>>15589209
https://vnreviews.blog/2015/02/12/full-metal-daemon-muramasa/

vns are cringe. also its always the same couple vns discussed in these threads. subahibi, sakura uta, umineko, mla

>>15588200
I mean I did as well but only for immersive purposes

>>15589369
Most VNs are just 50 hrs of the MC getting caught up in embarrassing situations with the female heroines and getting called a pervert by them before finally banging them.
There's not a lot to discuss about those, or even do much besides posting screenshots of them once on /vng/ before forgetting them and moving onto the next VN.

>>15589232
aforementioned weeb friends

list of /lit/ VNs:
>Hanachirasu
>Swan Song
>Symphonic Rain
>Forest
>Saya no Uta

I don't see Forest discussed much. It's the epitome of aesthetics over characters/plot, so I'm guessing it only appeals to a very small minority of people who read VNs. Very surprising to see it on the top 100 list on EGS.

>>15587090
>Fate is typical shounen battle stuff, they literally stop in the middle of running from a life threatening attack to have sex "to transfer mana" because that was what was expected (to be fair Nasu was pushed very hard into it, it was originally supposedly not going to have h-scenes)
just read realta nua, it is kinda dumb criticizing fsn for being an eroge when a version without the porn is considered the superior one.

>>15590254
that's not how it was originally written though, it's just removing a scene to make it marletable for all audiences

the point still stands that the medium is never going to be taken even somewhat seriously when it's got shit like this all the time, whether it was strong-armed in by editors or not

>>15590254
>Release a game
>Release it again to a wider audience
>Say "this is how it was meant to be" to get retards to buy it a second time (Japanese otaku will do this if told to)
>Weebs believe the shilling and think the writer actually has some kind of integrity even though they were apparently willing to put porn in the game against their will (disregard the writer is the founder of the company lol)

>>15590618
it wasn't just removing a scene dumbass, nasu literally rewrote into something more serious. stop talking about something you haven't read. realta nua also added the beloved voice acting and the epilogue,adding more tracks and animations. it is by far the definitive version.

>>15589438
Princess Evangile I'm looking at you

>>15586556
It's a nice little tearjerker about agape waifu robot. It is very good, but the key word is tearjerker (and also starwatching)

>>15583319
sudas vns are amazing and i had a hard time thinking of a decent vn until i saw this post. higurashi is decent for horror but its not like its life changing, just a really cool horror vn

>>15591018
I'm from DJT, bro. I just come here and to /vg/ to dab on EOPs.

>>15591662
>DJT
You gotta go back
>>>/trash/

>>15590767
woah deep

>>15582556
here my take.

on the one hand literature is supposed to be enjoyable so in the sense that graphic novels are enjoyable for you to consume , they are as legitimate as books.

on the other hand its weeb shit with titillating pictures that 99.999% of the time does not even aspire to be as edifying or constructive as literature does. whether or not it is sexual, like comic books they seem to all have this really pornographic blown-out style to them

so no its really bad

>>15591008
didn't know that other stuff, but I read fate long enough ago that it was the mirror moon translation. I know realta nua got a better tl too, but that was all

also it's still not how it was written, having to retcon something to "make it more serious" is really showing how bad they fucked up originally
also the version I played had voice acting and the epilogue with avalon chapter, so it must have been a combination of the two

>>15593092
>consume
Cringe

>>15582556
Kara no Shojo was fun but I got stuck when that moralist girl revealed herself to be the leader of that prostitution ring or whatever and then you and her both get killed and I don’t really want to go through the game again to get past it.

>>15591662
>to dab
To what?

bump

>>15590095
>Song
>>Symphonic Rain
>>Forest

You have the best taste of anyone I've seen in any thread discussing VNs. I'm glad I'm not the only one who lists Swan Song and Symphonic Rain side by side (both are criminally underrated for their level of quality).

Also in Forest the prostitute girl was my favorite character.

>>15590095
I've been meaning to read symphonic rain for years simply because of the Ritsuko Okazaki OST.
But it didn't work when I tried to run it and I never got around to figuring it out. Also I heard it wasn't very good and that didn't help my motivation, though I really never see it mentioned often, it's rare.

>>15596094
>Also I heard it wasn't very good and that didn't help my motivation, though I really never see it mentioned often, it's rare.

Really? It's not often that I hear Symphonic Rain's name mentioned but when I do its generally in a positive light. And I can confirm its a great VN and I highly recommend giving it a second chance.

The story can be a little slow paced for the first part of the first three routes, but its not bad. Instead it ops for a more relaxed and comfy vibe. But when each route picks up around the mid-way point, the vibe becomes more dramatic and Symphonic Rain does its drama really well.

And the unlocked Al Fine route (after you beat the first three routes) is absolutely brilliant.

Please check Symphonic Rain out.

>>15582969
>>15585477
WA2 is a god-tier romance VN, but it *is* getting a translation. However, the quality of it sucks, refer to pic related. This "translation" clearly shows that the guy translating it has no clue what's going on in the scene, and so he butchers an otherwise beautiful scene. And the rest of the team is a bunch of Setsunafags as well.

>>15596228
I liked Damekoi a lot, which was by the same writer -- but since I don't know Japanese I tried watching the anime of WA2 Introductory Chapter and I have to say it was fucking laughable at times; it was so overly melodramatic and angsty that it just felt silly.

>>15590095
>>15595847
>Swan Song
Remember to read Musicus, which is by the same writer, and is supposed to release in English this year. It was released in Japan about six months ago and has been very highly lauded so far.

>>15589258
RIP

>>15596484
did he leave any message explaining his decision?

>>15596666
No. No one knows why he did it.

>>15596484
Conjueror left the VN blogging scene? Since when?

At least we still have Clephas's blog

>>15597131
Anon...

>>15582556
The only good vn's are moege. Read a book if you want a good story.

>>15582855

Is pottery dance?

>>15597131
If you actually don't know, he killed himself (literally) last year.

>>15597763
That's horrible, honestly I didn't believe it at first. But it really is true...

May he rest in peace

>>15585648
Don´t be rude

>>15582556
vns are like peak 'dude it gets good 50 hours in'

>>15599954
It's all bad in the Kara no shojo game.

The most /lit/ VN is いつか、届く、あの空に。
People who've studied Carl Jung and Georges Dumézil's work will understand why.

>>15596208
Okay I'll play it after I finish Raging Loop

>>15601257
>Carl Jung
Very cringe & bugman...

>>15582556
yes

>>15582556
no

>>15601812
For once a animeposter is based.

maybe

>>15582556
I don't know

NINE IN MY HEAD

yes