/lit/ - Literature

Change videogame addiction to molested an you are right

>>15567434
Who the fuck didnt play videogames im his childhood?

>>15567434
Video games are for young children and retards.

>>15567434
Before that musiphiles

Novelty seeking is linked to self transcendence

>>15567434
>28
why this specific age and not just 30

>>15567434
it's called being a fucking nerd OP

>>15567434
Any addiction makes you really evaluate yourself and the world around you. you are forced to come to terms with reality in a way most will never understand.

>>15567689
Kinda true. Nothing worse than hitting rock-bottom.

>>15567460
Me. Never played. Have been interested in philosophy for as long as I can remember. It all started when I realized Pokemon cards were shit and despite secretly wanting to cradle those shiny beautiful gems in my fingers forever decided to make fun of people who played with them and then became a loner for life. From then on I got off on the constant feeling of being a galaxy brain among ants until I got to college and then I dropped out and have been in and out of low-level employment and NEETdom ever since. Constantly reading philosophy though.

>>15567701
Honesty though. today we are so coddled, hitting rock bottom is what made me face reality and look at life through a lens different from the one that mainstream education and media manufactured for me. I believe people can learn about philosophy without falling off the deep end but it's a pretty consistent catalyst that forces someone to face reality. I'm glad it made me want to meaningfully pursue wisdom but falling off the edge almost killed me.

>>15567718
Mind sharing your story?

>>15567728
yeah, I'll start typing it now so give me a sec

>>15567728
>>15567755
Essentially I've been a Pornography addict all of my adult life, recently I found https://pmohackbook.org/easypeasy.pdf and It's really helped a lot. but before that, It all started around 2012, I realized I had a problem but I didn't really know that porn could be addictive. I just thought I kept doing it because ''I liked it'' and so for a while after that I just didn't think about it too much. Later I became an LDS Missionary out in Micronesia and in the Church porn is a big no-no, especially while you're a missionary. I literally didn't have any access to it for the most part but I'd still jack off and feel bad about it. That's when I really started to realize I had a problem, I was obsessed and would think about it a lot and I couldn't stop. that and for lots of other reasons I became really depressed as well, and I seriously considered killing myself. A lot. Eventually, I realized I could only trust in God (This was the moment I really pinpoint when I actually had a real testimony) and so I relied on him and he got me through. My biggest lesson learned was that prayer works. I became really interested in wisdom and absolute truth and being at the bottom made me ask myself some really really hard questions. I had to evaluate everything including my own life. It forced me to look at things and life in a more meaningful way. It made me put the world in perspective and ask what really mattered. I lost all taste for basically everything superficial. I like to learn and want to know more and connect with things in a real way. Porn is a poison. we as a society don't do enough to protect the vulnerable. The 12 step program I joined when I got home really helped me but I'd still relapse. The other day I did the maths and realized I've spent the vast majority of my life literally suffering withdrawal symptoms. I want to live a good life and be a good man. I love the lord and want to raise a family of my own and be a good husband and father. I look at the world today and feel really really sad, I'm only 24 and there isn't a whole lot I can do but I really want to do more.

I'm sorry that was really long-winded and didn't make much sense, It's 1:30 am for me and I'm really tired, I'll check this thread tomorrow though. I wish you all the best as well as a long and happy life.

Overall I'm Just really glad I took the time to understand my religion and that I learned and prayed to get an answer for myself.

Call me a shill but you should really read the book of Mormon as well, it's free online or you can get a free physical copy too
https://www.comeuntochrist.org/uk/forms/order-book-of-mormon Missionaries are really harmless, trust me. you could talk to them too.

>>15567888
That’s the most uninteresting “rock bottom” I’ve ever heard. I’m an alcoholic who used to smoke crack and live in a motel, fuck off with your sob story about masturbation.

>>15567888
Thank you for sharing. As I got into spirituality myself I started to realize how filthy and pornified my perception was, and it felt like I had to pass a kidney stone for so long. I finally did, though. The worst of it is gone. I struggled for years turning the psychodynamics of my sexuality every which way, understanding what desire is, what urges are, how I process my thoughts and everything, at a level I don't think a book would ever tell me. It isn't that I think sex is evil but what craves the image of it in me was. There was depravity in me I had to exorcise like a demon. Ironically, it was the struggle with this that helped convince me these mystics and monks were onto something huge.

Mastering your sexuality as a man is probably the single hardest thing you can do. Good luck brother.

>>15567930
This shit isn't the olympics.

>>15567942
Masturbation isn’t hitting rock bottom.

>>15567689
I think it's just about predisposition. Most normies have socially acceptable addictions such as alcohol, weed, smoking, food, pills... and never mind them. We just have a tendency for introspection, and that is a consistent trend across 4chan and other autistic internet communities.

Gotta admit, I got interested in philosophy after playing Xenogears

>>15567434
>video game addiction
not really, i just never dealt with my problems and developed an internet addiction

>>15567930
holy shit drug addicts really are the fucking worst humans on earth.

>>15567888
Read Your Brain on Porn if you want more insight on the addiction effects on your brain

>>15567434
20 years old and I’m 2 years behind in college for my engineering degree. I’m 5’4 and have a 3 inch dick, and have a porn addiction. I’ve hit the bottom and have no real hope to climb back up other than a pursuit for knowledge that i’m having troubles committing to.

>>15567708
May you find happiness and enlightenment, anon.

>>15568754
could you make a cute femboy?

>>15567888
>you should really read the book of Mormon

I have a theory that most of the weirdo philosophy and politics and theology types across social media grew up playing Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 and it had a profound effect on them, and that's why they got into philosophy later in life.

If you're the type to be intrigued by philosophy, KOTOR 2 is the kind of game that would spark your interest and whet your palate, since it deals very heavily in competing ideologies and contrasting ideas.

>>15568846
i have a theory that you play hard and fast with projecting your own experiences onto others

>>15568754
are you >>15564685 ?

>>15567434
Fallout new Vegas inspired my interest in Philosophy. It had a profound effect on 17 year old me.

>>15568846
>objectivism is obviously correct: the game

>>15568846
kotor 1 and 2 are overrated mess

>>15567888
I wouldn't call getting depressed because you couldn't jack it to porn while in Micronesia hitting rock bottom. Hell, I tried to off myself a couple times, and burned plenty of bridges and had to move back in with my folks for awhile, but I had a lot further to fall. I watched a family friend hit rock bottom. Stole his mom's jewelry and pawned it at a cash4gold place to buy some opiate and disappeared for months, popped back up in prison.
It's good that you've straightened yourself out and found christ and all that, but don't pretend you've understood the darkness of addiction or the depravity of the soul. If you try to reach out to someone with that story they're just going to laugh at you because you don't know shit.

>>15568846
>>15569343
>>15567977
You guys are thinking of explicitly philosophical themes in video games, but I wonder if it's deeper than that and in the structure of the medium itself.
exploring and manipulating items in a totally virtual world, a feeling of autonomy, control, and development, and an emphasis on mechanical aspects and gameplay over narrative (like in film, anime or lit) has a bigger effect I think.

>>15567888
Same here anon. Its so lame being addicted to pornography but i feel like its the one true universal 21st century experience for all young males. Its going to completely destroy society.

>>15567708
This is a great cautionary tale to remind people to steer clear of philosophy. Only narcissistic failures flock to that pointless field of study. Decent people are better off working in STEM or learning a trade.

>>15569397
There really is no good reason not to just eliminate the entire pornography industry, up to and including killing all the producers in it. Putting a bullet in the head of every producer of pornography in California would do the world a great service.

>>15569387
Nah for me it was endlessly arguing on /v/ and /vg/ back in 2013 about the new Vegas factions that got me into it.

There is a lot of symbolism hidden in video games. Assuming they have an impact on the psyche of young minds.. Maybe we've noticed the influences more than others and it's led us to feel connections throughout adolescence that have had us wanting more. Idk really.

>>15567460
girls

>>15567689
Yup

>>15567652
Great post but pls continue

>>15567953
Ya but like don’t be such a fag dude. Not everyone is as big of a piece of shit as you... if masturbation is his rock bottom, it’s still his rock bottom. Fuck you.

Honestly this isn’t a bad notion - however it’s not that. Everyone on this board simply didn’t get enough love as a child. That is what leads to addiction.

>>15567460
Legit me

Video games are too easy to dismiss. Many games are considered great because of their narrative, and how the gameplay serves the narrative. But narrative belongs to another artform- the storytelling artforms.
I think videogames have the potential to become an artform but are just not there yet. Partially because they were born and grew up in an era of Capital, which requires they be salable, resulting in a reluctance to formally experiment.

>>15569387
This anon touches on my point. I think there is a lack of focus in the 'tactile feeling' of a game. An example is Super Mario 64, where much attention was paid to Mario's movement, and how to balance the reduction of the need for precise jumps with the maintenance of adequate skill expression. But most games I randomly pick up fail to differentiate their tactile feeling and feel largely the same (the exception being the 3D Mario games)
The games that come closest to elevating videogames to an artform are fighting games. They are extraordinarily intricate, and depend entirely on how the characters within them 'feel' like to play (the tactile feeling), while allowing for extraordinarily large amounts of skill expressions.
But, of course, gameplay is not the only thing. For example, I would consider Breath of the Wild to be a spectacular game if only it removed all voice-acted dialogue, in addition to any exposition of the story of the game. If that is done, the game functions as an interactive painting. BotW's greatest strength is the ability to evoke imagery, but much of it is ruined by exposition in one way or the other. (The gameplay systems approach BotW takes, which provides great freedom in problem solving, thus avoiding frustrating the player, is good but it seems still in its infancy.)


The fact of the matter is that most video games are kind of bad and not particularly worth playing. It is true that 99% of any artform is absolute trash and not worth looking at, but Video games seem to have a far more severe paucity of quality. Many games considered great today are generally not particularly innovative. The Last of Us, for example, could just as well be a movie or TV show; if I wanted to play an fps, I could have picked my poison from Wolfenstein to modern CoD. Something like Detroit: Become Human is a glorified hidden object game with a Visual Novel branching style (and generally VN tier writing and themes, my God, people think this is profound).
Games like Hellblade:Senuas Sacrifice are going in the right direction. Something that uses the medium to surpass Literature and Film in what they can do, and becomes its own beast, yet it still remains shackled to repetitive and boring gameplay mechanics and puzzles. (gameplay aside, honestly, Hellblade is Kino)

>>15569605
(contd.)
As to what effect this could have on philosophers and artists who grew up on video games: it's anybody's guess. We've grown up with a medium that is explicitly tied to, and born in, the capitalist framework where nothing matters except delivery of the product and how much it sells. Very few games are made to be a quality product and nothing else. Subsequently there seems to be the implicit belief in our culture that if something sells well and is popular, it must, then, be good. The gooder it sells the gooder it is. If it doesn't sell, it's a failure. So there is a lack of an aesthetic philosophy, beyond the aesthetics of popularity. Perhaps this?
Honestly I understand, and at some level agree with /lit/s distaste for videogames. But I cannot deny its potential.

>>15567935
in a way, those urges and impulses are manifestations of the ego, not only in that the orgasm makes you feel good via dopamine, but, i think, unconsciously, is an effort to replicate and spread the ego.

>>15567708
Are you me?

>>15567434

The state of philosophy in America is very, very bad. Outside of rigorous analytic departments, it is being subject to diversity and lowered standards. Classics is in a similar state, many newcomers are unprofessional and resentfully novice in such a rigorous field of study. It too is subject to the same pressures to become """accessible""".

As a result of this, philosophy is a domain with very low social and professional capital to be gained so most people are savvy enough not to participate. People who are openly interested, or choose philosophy as a college major have poor judgement and setting themselves up for failure.

>>15567434
>videogames and junk food at an early age
may as well just rape your kids and be done with it by letting them have that bullshit. dunno about the rest of you, but:
>sheen of videogames wears off at 18 with the realization you just wasted your childhood
>immediately jump into booze, pot and cigs in lieu of real activities which are now uninviting and unfamiliar to you
>life gets predictably fucked up from there as i try to bottom out in my self imposed misery
>realize i was given vidya and shitty snacks as a replacement for the real ritual and affection my parents didn't know how to give
>alcoholism, rock bottom etc
>spend latter half of my 20s evaluating the total crater of my life as i learn things i should have at 14
all of this knowledge could have been acquired through a year or two of true discipline and some heart-to-hearts from my father. but he didn't know. there's no one to be truly angry at. i can see how something "should have been" but am powerless to affect it.

>>15569605
>>15569612
But first we have to talk about parallel universes.
>I would consider Breath of the Wild to be a spectacular game if only it removed all voice-acted dialogue, in addition to any exposition of the story of the game. If that is done, the game functions as an interactive painting.
It already exists, it's called Shadow of the Colossus. Also, have you played Okami?

>>15569775
Yes but Shadow of the Colossus lacks the feeling of freedom and exploration that BotW has, in addition to BotW's allowance for creative problem solving (which, of course has it's own problems)

Okami is one of those games I never got around to playing. I know a switch port was released, so one day I'll get around to it. I haven't played anything in a long while.

>>15567708
Literally living the literary lifestyle. In awe of this man.

I can't be the be the only one here that read subahibi then went on to read Wittgenstein, right?

>>15567434
Gamers can barely talk about video games.

>>15567434
Games teach you to WIN and philosophy is an attempt to WIN at life.

Video games appeal to people who like problem solving. Philosophy is a forum of problem solving in a way.

>>15567658
projecitng probably

>>15570054
I read Wittgenstein before I read Subahibi....

>>15567708
So you dropped out after realizing that you are not a galaxy brain among ants?

I barely played video games as a kid and don't really see the appeal. Philosophy is neat though.

>>15567434
I've been addicted to world of warcraft on and off since I was 14. Paused big from 18-24, then played a lot from 24-27. after massive binge episodes during covid lock down I decided I wanted to stop completely. Locked away my pc game and now I have a shitty laptop for work only. I believe I used wow to postpone an adult and mature relationship with real life, as well as a coping mechanism with stress. Also wow is a constant source of news, there's always something to do and relatively exciting, that in order to find in life one must engage and work for in the real world. It's also a way to keep myself sheltered. I consider my deep delve into the game as a good thing tho, because I realized how shallow it is and the fact that experience is never on par with the fantasy of it. I went to Pleasure Island and seen it as a trap. every night I went to bed I felt ashamed of the waste of my time and potential. That was the rock bottom. Seeing a positive future again now, thinking again as a possible and positive life without the game.

>>15570657
Yeah, I think that makes sense but it doesn't apply to all video games. I mean, FPS don't involve any problem solving skills. It's whoever has better reaction time and has memorised the map. The most philosophical game genres would be either puzzle games or immersive sims (games like System Shock, Deus Ex, Thief, etc)

>>15567930
>>15569378
It's almost as if I didn't go over every life detail I've experienced and left out massive parts of my existence because I was asked about my addiction and not my whole fucking life from the moment of conception up until the millisecond I finished typing.

>>15569605
>>15569612
I think this is ignoring what the general public even WANTS out of art. Or "art" in some cases, for my argument. For example, take movies. Many would consider Citizen Kane a work of art, while significantly fewer would think the same of, oh, let's say The Avengers. The comparison is relevant because, in most cases along both mediums, the goal is usually to create entertainment first. And again, looking at drawings: I think we can all agree that the foremost goal of pornography is generally not to make an artistic statement. This isn't to say that art cannot be made unless the conscious will of the creator is specifically set to make art. Rather, I'm saying it's comparing apples to oranges. The goals among creators are too fundamentally different - one wants to tell the world how he feels, the other wants money. Creation for art, versus creation for product. It's seems obvious that, if we mostly look at creators creating for product, we'll see less art.
Going into the video games that DO attempt to be art, it's easy to see even more similarities to the movie industry. The people most interested in making art are those either smaller, budget studios, or by themselves with minimal outside help. The people interested in making money are the larger studios, who are capable of actually dropping millions onto a project. Again: a larger studio can make something artistic, regardless of medium, but it's just not the usual goal. Of course, those larger studios are also much better at letting people know a new product is out.

Not that you implied such, it's just one of my peeves that movies and video games are treated so differently despite the absurd number of similarities. Saying one "can" but another "can't" comes off as arbitrary to me.

>>15569403
Why these two specifically? Trades are ok, if all the work you are doing is either for yourself, someone you care about or on some grand work, otherwise it sucks pretty bad. Of course manual labor is going to feel good but there's a lingering feeling that you are just doing this because you couldn't do what you wanted to do, and that you are wasting your time, and that your back is sore and you want lunch, and that you can't wait to get home and watch tv and fall asleep. What do you do in STEM? write lines of pointless code on computers to earn a bit of cash. I know this is not advice for any driven person though, its easy to make money and the surface-level-constructive work is in abundance.

>>15569403
I'm a STEMchad for the money but money itself doesn't satisfy me a bit
At least reading philosophy teaches me how to cope better

>>15567460
In the 80s admitting you knew anything about computers in high school, let alone playing compy gaems, was enough to buy you a ticket to permanent social excommunication.

>>15570891
This is a curious line of thinking.
The obvious answer is that it would take either a narcissistic or successful philosopher to believe he's doing good work, not wasting his time, etc. This, to a far greater degree than trade or STEM work. That nagging would be there regardless. Only difference is that, again, unless it's a narcissistic or successful philosopher ("success" not necessarily being financial success, but taking all forms such as how much it helps the philosopher personally), it'll be saying something different, "Is this helping anyone but you? Is this even helping you?"

Besides, social validation does wonders for happiness. Speaking generally: Trade work pays well, philosophy doesn't. People respect an electrician, or plumber, or carpenter. Nobody cares about a philosopher unless they're an actual name.
Don't need to wonder why the world is unfair as much when you're making $75K+ a year.

>>15570891
>What do you do in STEM? write lines of pointless code on computers to earn a bit of cash

STEM involves 4 disciplines. Yes, the bottom of the barrel are overpaid code monkeys which probably forms the main bulk of STEM students but remember that one of those disciplines is Science, the successor to philosophy in modern times.
The person who you replied to is a retard though who doesn't realise that. The best scientists always respected philosophy, it's mostly meme scientists like that Black Science man who looks down on it.

>>15567708
Found /lit/'s mascot.

>>15570973
Incredibly based if the case

>>15569605
Silent Hill 2 is art and one of the highest achievements of the medium

>>15567434
>Everyone under 28 who is interested in philosophy went through childhood with a video game addiction.
I didn't. Bad thread sage

>>15571035
Most people in STEM, even the best parts like physics and math, absolutely despise hegel, heidegger, nietzsche, focault, deleuze, lacan etc. There is very much a war going on between philosophy and science, between relativism and objective reality, between leftism and sanity.

The main problem with video games is the idealism. That there's a set of rules out there and will provide you with some nice "game play"

Games must start to acknowledge the fact that people operate under different metaphysical assumptions and how to deal with that, as a person, as a player

>>15567460
I had some friends in high school who legit never played video games. They were into sports and shit.

>>15567708
>thinks he's smarter than average
>doesn't even finish uni
Have you ever read Plato? Read about Socrates paradox. Stay humble. Good luck.

Visual mediums appeal to those with high spatial intelligence, a trait which is strongly associated with religious and philosophical interest and competence.

>>15571393
I think there are games that mindfuck the players alright and make them question their metaphysical assumptions... But before I delve into examples, what do refer to with said "fact".

>>15571340
You'll abandon philosophy sooner or later.

>>15567888
Anyone has to carry their own cross, glad you came out of it in one piece. I fantasize to of start a family and such but I'm 26 and this owl pandemic shit made me totally disillusioned. I think I'm too much of a loner and the average woman of my age today is brainwashed by internet and all of this meaningless entertainment such as Netflix and TV, both filled with propaganda.
Anyway I've read tons of theory about porn on /fit/ and I think that porn is indeed ine of (((their))) trap. There must be a sort of agenda that links interracial porn, interracial couples in Netflix shows, mass migration to Europe from Africa and this whole Black Lives Matter movement. Call me conspiracy weirdo but it can't be just a coincidence.

>>15570973
This is simply not true, a self pitying lie repeated ad nauseum by dorky boomers.

https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq

>>15569605
I think you've addressed the problem well, particularly its hindrance to becoming an art form due to its failure to adequately experiment with budgets that allow wider freedoms. Films have had that luxury for periods of the medium's existence for decades, even if the aftermath of a creative boom has resulted in a cynical cycle of films to follow for a period.

Games almost had that, around the late 90s to early 2000's subsequently ending around 2006-7, the creative freedom is given to studios was a lot more vast in relation to the budgets they were given and not much of a focus was put on them to sell insane numbers, this could be as a result of marketing being so expensive in the social media age and China becoming heavily involved in changing the way games are made to being more of a 'game of chance' roulette system, and then there's the obvious, games are now more popular than ever.

Tactile feel is the name of the game, the narrative is not, and neither is visuals. Games are a marriage of control, logic, art and narrative can serve as small support after a good foundation being whatever the goal of the developer is; namely fun.
Unfortunately, the industry does not understand this, the misconception is that games need to be more like movies because selling a story stretched out to 4-6 hours with mediocre gameplay that only somewhat supports its narrative through its actions so something like ludo-narrative dissonance doesn't occur, thus the game ends up being an extremely linear exercise in repeating the same action over and over again, only the player is entranced by a low-rent script that would barely pass as 1 season of television, like the Last of Us.

Arcade games have come much closer to achieving games as an artform than the AAA space has ever produced in its entire misguided existence.

>>15567434
Every guy I knew in highschool played videogames, and men are disproportionately more interested in philosophy compared to women. The former did not cause the latter, I'd imagine that everyone interested in philosophy also played pretend wars when they were kids too. You had to say under twenty eight because older than that videogame playing wouldn't have been widespread enough to make your statement true.
Stop being a sophist using nothing but rhetoric.

>>15571456
A good example of a less idealistic game? Horror games are naturally good because they're not idealistic by design; they're supposed to scare you and make you unnerved. Silent Hill is an obvious title

But it's good that mentioned the word mindfuck, when we're watching movies or reading books we expect to be surprised, have something revealed to us. With games it's almost a separate genre or a gimmick, the default is that we wont be surprised or find something new.

>>15568804
cute femboys have to be hung, so no, he can't

>>15570853
>FPS don't involve any problem solving skills
>games like System Shock, Deus Ex, Thief do

>>15571595
>Arcade games have come much closer to achieving games as an artform than the AAA space has ever produced in its entire misguided existence.
Games like Silent Hill or Resident Evil disproves this. Arcade games can be good, like a pinball machine can be good and flashy, but they don't enrich you. For a game to enrich you it has to be like Silent Hill, it needs to be less idealistic and it has to artfully modify the rules as you play on. Asking the player to execute a perfect loop in an arcade game, no matter how well-designed, tactile and difficult, is a lower tier of gaming

>>15571526
>t. born in 2002
Shush zooms, this is a Boomer thread.

>>15571595
>>15569605
I don't disagree with your assertion, but you're missing the point. Why is the Avengers not Art, but Citizen Kane is? Because the latter is trying to say something, the former isn't. The former was made purely to make money, the latter was made to make money while telling a story. That's it. The increasing financialization of the American Economy leads to increasing micromanagement as every little decision needs to be hyper-efficient to increase shareholder value. Designs are made based off of what fits into financial models instead of what's fun.

There's a reason Starsector and Factorio are far more fun than anything put out by EA in a decade: a dozen autists got together and made a game based off of what they think would be fun, not profitable.

>>15570855
You posted your rock bottom story, and it boils down to, “I wasn’t allowed to bring porn to Micronesia and I got sad.” If you think that’s rock bottom you don’t know shit.

>>15567708
Same except I played vidya as a kid.

>>15567930
>I’m an alcoholic who used to smoke crack and live in a motel
Here's your medal.

>>15571681
I'm not saying it has to be one genre that achieves the status, just that there is more to be said in the realm of fighting games, platformers and arcade games achieving this concurrently than games that are in the same vein of RE/Silent Hill do, there are MANY horror games, and most of them suck ass. However, I agree Silent Hill especially has achieved that, and there are FPS games, another genre mired in mediocrity with the sheer abundance that have achieved it, like Thief.

But I don't agree that something like Pinball is not enriching, that depends on the design, simple games are the embodiment of doing without thinking, which is where the art of sport comes into play, there is a state of flow in games like Tetris, and one can say that a game designed around achieving that feeling is artful.

What you allude to in the end regarding tiers is more of a tier of complexity.

>>15571682
>The increasing financialization of the American Economy leads to increasing micromanagement as every little decision needs to be hyper-efficient to increase shareholder value. Designs are made based off of what fits into financial models instead of what's fun.

I was semi-alluding to that phenomenon when I was speaking about the relation games have to film and finding that sweet spot between commercial achievement and artistic achievement, and where the balance was felt best with games that expressed artistic freedom & not in the pursuit of purely financial models. The late 90s- early 2000s is the timeframe where I think the highest possible amount of progress was made in the field of achieving art in its medium, in congruence with budgets that helped to make that happen.

Indie games could achieve this far more often and make more artistic leaps in progressing the medium if the American economy wasn't so pissed scared of experimentation.

Films had independent production companies run by those for a passion for the medium, like United Artists. Games do not have that luxury, although strides are being made, I think Xbox has done well to support indie developers do what they want.

>>15571659
don't forget Half Life's epic physics puzzles

>>15571862
>But I don't agree that something like Pinball is not enriching, that depends on the design, simple games are the embodiment of doing without thinking, which is where the art of sport comes into play, there is a state of flow in games like Tetris, and one can say that a game designed around achieving that feeling is artful.
I think we need to talk about the sublime and where we're most likely to find such games. Games that can stand up to what the greatest of literature, music and movies have to offer.
There's no purpose in obscuring the merit of a well-designed arcade game but it's not sublime. Chess is the game of kings but it's not that kind of potential I see in games like Silent Hill.

>What you allude to in the end regarding tiers is more of a tier of complexity.
There are more moving parts in a pinball machine than in a Da Vinci painting. Saying that something is complex (for a game) is just saying that it has many moving parts. A piece of art that's deep and rich is better than another, even if it has less buttons. We need to talk about different kinds of engagement and to what end that engagement serves. Silent Hill is not more mechanically complex than The Last of Us but it is more aesthetically complex

>>15567434
For me, it was chronic masturbation

>>15568754
You're fucking pathetic.
>Go to a farmer's market
>Purchase a hog
>Kill it
>Cut it up
>Bon appétit
There, test boost

>>15572331
>killing makes me man
Kek, the absolute state of mutts

>>15567434
I used to play video games as a child, not more or less than others my age. What drew me to philosophy was my father's constant abuse of the family which lead to my alcohol addiction.

>>15567434
Why do people on this site insist on calling their passions addictions? What's wrong with all of you? Are you this easily brainwashed by the anarchists on this site?

>>15572573

>>15567460
I barely played video games as a kid besides a little game boy color, I didnt even have a console until the PS2 and not until like 2007, that and the Wii was all I ever had. But I dud watch Let's Plays a fuck ton
And I had a big philosophy period, but that was more because I was a college aged incel than because of vidya, all the dudes I knew played vidya and they were all dummies who had sex all the time

>>15567701
Being addicted doesn't mean you will eventually have to hit rock bottom. You can slowly wither away and waste your years, like me.

All of you are pseuds. Go read C Thi Nguyen on games as agency and learn something so you can have an informed, interesting opinion

>>15573364
His(her?) thesis is nothing new
>We play games as microcosms of 'real life' as sort of safe rehearsals
>The struggle is generally more important than the goal itself.
>Therefore games teach us how to strive.

If you actually read some of the posts here, you'd see all of this implicit in our arguments. Ultimately it's like all (let's say most) other books of aesthetics: descriptions of stars written by people who have never looked up at the sky.

See games are not about autonomy or agency. Games are specifically defined not by the autonomy they give you but the autonomy they take away from you, that is, the constraints set on the player (maps, out of bounds territories and so on). It's like a Hegelian negation: the object is not defined by what it is but by what it is missing. Take Zizek's coffee without cream/coffee without sugar example.
Yet that is not what should be discussed when evaluating art or whether something is art. Books, for example, teach us how to absorb and collate information generally in a narrative form, but that is not what we discuss when we discuss the artistic qualities of the book, no?
So we are talking about videogames, not the philosophy of the transcendental notion and aesthetics of videogames.

>>15567888
just get tons of poon like based Joseph Smith did

>>15567434
Loneliness. Introvert.

>>15571682
>Starsector and Factorio
hey hey people

>>15570617
Correct. As we all know, amateur philosophers here on 4channel WIN all the time.

>>15567434
If you only played with legos as a kid you have a 150+ iq

>>15567434
the answer resides in alienation

>>15572836
Because everyone on here goes 200% into their thing
t. addictive personality

>>15575168
This, got addictions since forever.

>>15567451
based. I was molested too

>>15571179
Nah, you're a pleb.

>>15572836
>passions
>sitting at home raging at russians in dota 2 learning or experiencing nothing new in any way

>>15567451
im not sure if i was molested but i do have a lot of blank spots in my childhood memory and an abusive psycopath father that tried to rape my mother, maybe i just blocked it off

>>15571681
>Resident Evil
>art
Fuck off.

Wow, the philososhitters on this board were gamers all along! Color me shocked!

>>15570738
Maybe he got disillusioned when he was promised a visage of Da Vinci's Academy and was instead met with more ants. That's what happened to me anyways so thats why I listen to podcasts and free lectures at work and read books and academic articles in my off time. College was hampering my ability to learn.

>>15571682
>Shush zooms, this is a Boomer thread.
Imagine being in your 30s and still clinging to video games like a fucking manchild.