/lit/ - Literature

>>15503778
Just because you're a brainlet and can't manage your time doesn't mean everyone else is.

>tfw 6 ft but 5 inches

>>15503778
>mfw OP is completely right about everything, and my parents spent some fat cash on german classes for me, believing me to be a prodigious learner who'd end up with a scholarship in Germany or at least learn the language, but i was once again (and not for the first time) a huge disappointment, since i couldn't get myself into the trouble of opening those boring Schritte volumes to study, so i just bullshitted through more than two years, throwing an obscene amount of money (considering our living standart) down the toilet, since, as you may have guessed by now, i'm merely 5'8.

Unbelievably based post

>>15503778
>Literature only really is authentic..
This assumes that *all* literature, whatever the language, is *authentic* simply for having been written down- an incredibly stupid thesis.
ESL?

What? Do you read 4chan bs? Those things are probably AI generated.

>>15503778
Language is fucking impossible
You faggots aren’t talking to anyone you’re just talking to yourselves

>>15503932
i see a lot of anger that the op stated the truth, i dont see any rebuttals to the thesis youve singled out other than cheap insults

>>15503778
I raise my glass to you.

>and even a little girl will laugh at your mistakes, and you couldn't even rape her back
horrible joke and yet based lmao

>>15503778
True but language learning is fun anyways. No reason not to start doing it, especially with the sheer volume of resources at our fingertips thanks to the Internet.
BTW anyone who learns to speak a foreign language fluently will necessarily absorb, even unintentionally, the culture that 'surrounds' the target language. There is simply no way you can get the amount of immersion necessary to achieve fluency without recourse to living in x place, consuming the media of your target language, reading the books, etc.

>>15503778
basically true but it's obvious that you'll never know another language as intimately as its native speakers. it's still fun and rewarding to learn them though

You are American.

>>15503778
>The meme that classics can only be read in the original language is real, and is part of a broader understanding of language. Every language has contexts that result in unique meanings, and because those contexts are lost drastically when translated, those words cannot be transferred into foreign intellects without losing vital qualities. Therefore, while a language learner might perfectly pronounce a word that corresponds to the original, they are only reproducing a cheap replica of the original, packaged for superficial consumers and tourists. This is especially true of ancient poetic languages. There is simply no way to transfer those untranslatable meanings to people foreign to those cultures. This means that even if a foreigner learns the language fluently, they're still only speaking a cheap copy.

Where do you stand in terms of classicists flaunting dead languages and reading originals? From your terms it sounds like they're only going through the motions.

>>15503778
>USA slut is a literal la creatura

>>15503778
>If you have below average height (<6 ft) or penis length, you simply lack the masculinity necessary to complete a task requiring thousands of hours of study and practice. And if you lack a penis, don't even think about trying.
Only thing that needed to be said. The rest reeks of semi incel rage. 5/10.

>>15504532
Lol, I didn't even notice. Idk about creatura, but she's not unlike a lot of hot newscasters.

>>15504509
Good point, I think that's one of the worst trends on /lit/, with 99% of people saying them actually being monoglots.

>>15503938
Worse, they're barely human. At least AI can solve technical scientific problems now. These people can barely string together a sentence.

>>15503778
cope

>>15505110
it's literally the opposite of cope. op's burning away muh languages cope like an ugly mole

>>15505160
cope

>>15505110
>>15505171
>cope
you are low effort cope

>>15505110
>>15505171
Spotted the failed multiglot.

>>15505185
>>15505198
cope

>>15503778

language learning is ez af if you dedicate time. I spent like 4 semesters learning ancient greek and can read Aristotle/Plato with some assistance. And this was with pretty lazy/minimal time spent

>>15505224
idk man looks like you dont even speak english

>>15505242
cope

>>15505242

english be ez pz mah nigga

>>15505224
Nah the OP is right. You lack the stones to learn ancient Greek.

>>15505255
>>15505246
cope

>>15505224

though to be fair, spontaneous speech is not something requisite for classical languages and seems like a largely separate domain from ones ability to read the language and tackle literature

>>15505261
Yes, I can read French using a dictionary but I'm can't really spell or speak at all.

>>15505265
>I'm can't really spell or speak at all.
BASED

>>15505257
Grow a pair of balls and bone up on Greek love stories, pantywaist.

>>15505336
cope

>>15505336
I might learn modern Greek. Greece is so beautiful.

Lol yaaa I hAte it :[ I just read translations and don't care about parental cookie ess. I hate it I hate it I used to read bibliC story for kods I don't really care wut some faggot old guy has to,say in his culture al contexts. I don care about cultural context. I get the gist and use my big brain to translate to a contexx. I use my brain and ignore stylism faggot aesthetics Book is nice so I need it and tell my friend on Facebook, Duolingo and 4channel I reed 4Chan poasts ffs!! And contribute to the economy on Amazon dot .com Lois O:-)

>>15505491
holy based

This is now a language progress thread.

I've decided to pick up Classical Chinese through this helpful course: https://web.stanford.edu/group/chinesetexts/cgi-bin/site/2-lun-yu-%E8%AB%96%E8%AA%9E-the-analects/ - recommended from this introduction guide tommazanec.com/blog/2017/06/14/how-and-why-to-learn-classical-chinese/

It goes through ancient texts and breaks down the words one by one, starting with bits and pieces of The Analects.

子曰:學而時習之,不亦說乎?有朋自遠方來, 不亦樂乎?人不知而不慍,不亦君子乎?

I love how rhythmical and condensed Classical Chinese can be. The translation given does attempt to get the feel of the parallel flow (the triad of is...not), but with the Chinese tones it does feel weightier and more austere.

The Master said, “To study and in time [or ‘in due season’] to master it, is this not indeed joy? 2. To have friends come from far away, is this not indeed happiness? 3. If others do not appreciate him and he is not resentful, is he not a true gentleman?”

When I do a gloss of the first part with guide from the lesson, I think it's roughly:

子曰:學而時習之,不亦說乎

[Master + say]: [To learn] and [in time + master + it], [NEG + indeed + delight + INT particle]

(The Master says): (To undertake learning) and (in time achieve mastery), (is it not a delight?)

>>15505518
how similar are classical and modern chinese, and middle and modern chinese?

>>15503778
You don't know me and you don't know what I am going through. So fuck you and your lame ass point of view.

>>15505529
I can't say the exact difference in linguistic detail (probably a book exists for that), but Classical Chinese feels way different from Modern Chinese, especially in terms of the grammar, with more explication of subjects/objects, different particles used, and less condensation. When I look at a 白话 version of the first line, for example

学到的东西按时去温习和练习,不也很高兴吗?

學而時習之,不亦說乎

I noticed they explicated on 學 to become 学到的东西, clarify the ambiguity of the absent object of study in the original version. For some reason they expanded 習 into 温习和练习 probably because Modern Chinese now uses a lot of compounds and a multitudes of meanings are no longer condensed into single Hanzi. There is also no use of the pronoun 之 since I think now Modern Chinese has way more pronouns to use. 乎 changes to 吗.

The grammar structure actually reminds me of Japanese more, with 之 seeming to have the same function as the particle の.

Of course it could just be a bad 白话 translation.

OP, you have assaulted my brain. I'll see you in court

>>15505608
>The grammar structure actually reminds me of Japanese more, with 之 seeming to have the same function as the particle の.
Complete Chinese beginner here, but doesn't 的 play essentially the same role as Classical 之 (and thus, Japanese の)?

>>15505608
Is that really the modern chinese for it? It's awful, they could've put a bit of effort making it literary/poetic while still using modern chinese.

right now it reads like a nagging parent trying to brainwash you instead of an easily agreeable truth

>>15505656
It does, but as seen from the above, the 之 of 習之 is not the genitive, and, to my scant Chinese knowledge, there's no pronominal function of 的. At least, not in the Chinese I was brought up with (my Modern Chinese is pretty bad due to lack of use). Maybe someone who lives in the mainland will prove me wrong.

>>15503778
I don't know if I've ever seen a post that was a bigger waste of time than yours, and this is /lit/. Congratulations.

I know I'm not the only anon here who inadvertently learned an acceptable amount of spoken Japanese from the past 8 years of watching anime. I could probably spend 3-6 months in a Japanese lang class now just covering the gaps and I'd be pretty much semi-fluent in spoken Japanese and would be good to go in Japanese society. I wasn't monolingual before though. This has led me to the insight that nuances exist between every language but the overall ways of expression are still varyingly similar. English seems to be the perfect chimera, the jack of all trades of languages. Of course it doesn't provide a true fundamental understanding of literature produced in other languages, but it does provide a sufficient enough understanding that one would be sufficiently equipped with the elementary understanding necessary to further delve into the intricacies and overtones of the foreign literature in question. And it may very well be that not only English, but many languages in the world possess such an ability, including my native language, which is why I think I'm able to relate easily enough to anyone who's language I learn.

>>15503778
>Language learning is impossible
>uses Imperial units
Why am I not surprised

Maybe you're just a brainlet, OP

>tfw trying to read real book in language i'm learning and it feels hopeless

it takes ten hours per page, im retarded. when does it get better?

>>15506235
if it takes so much then you're not really ready for books

>>15506235
Read the translation at the same time. You'll learn 100x faster. Don't torture yourself. Use translations until you're ready to read the originals alone. This speeds up the language learning process drastically.

>>15507403
>instead of 1000 hours to become competent at a language, youll become fluent in 10 hours
more lies from pretenders

>>15503778
Literally most people in Europe know 3 or 4 languages.
It's not that difficult.

>>15507440
Also, it doesn't take discipline, literally just find friends and media from the target language and it won't even feel like work.

We should all just learn Toki Pona and call it a day.

>>15507478
on the topic of conlangs, soon there'll be a sequel to ithkuil that's more expressive, more logical and much easier to learn and use, all at the same time

>>15507440
>Literally most people in Europe know 3 or 4 languages.
They don't. Europoors barely know 1-2, and one is English which is default and doesn't count. Those who know more usually know some combo of romance languages, and since those are so similar, it's really not that impressive.

>>15507502
what's up with the blue countries

>>15505261
Underrated post. OP is not distinguishing between being able to read a language, and being able to speak/converse/produce a language. The evidence points to the fact that these are highly separated mental activities.

Autists on /lit/ who only want to read books in their original language don't need any "lifelong native-level expert guidance" bullshit, they just need to learn the grammar/vocabulary and then read a vast amount of books in the target language.

>>15507507
They don't speak any languages at all

>>15507502
>I-it doesn't count
Shut it coper.
Also learn statistics, even a minority of 1s will bring the average down a lot. I dated a Polish girl who was fluent in Polish German Russian Dutch and English, lots of other European friends who spoke the same amount. Cope and say it's not impressive all you want while you fail to put the work in to learn.

>>15507512
>only learning a language so they can add more intellectual social capital to their status
this is one of the worst and most sociopathic things you can do. imagine learning a language but never wanting to talk to speakers of it.

>>15507560
What? The majority of Euros speak less than 2 languages. Most of them are either English, Turkish, or Arab. Nobody can dispute that.

>>15505265
same situation. could read Camus in original French and French Wikipedia, but I would be stuck like deer in headlights if you struck a conversation with me in French. that's what 4 years of French in high school did for me.

>>15507560
>thinks that languages 80% similar to each other should count as 1 each, instead of 1/2
>gets disproven on statistics after lying out his ass, tells other people to learn it
>summons his imaginary girlfriend fluent in multiple dead modern languages, when among them only german and russian matter

>>15507578
nothing wrong with learning the language to talk to the greatest minds of that language. imagine learning Mandarin so you can talk to your average chink. that's pretty cringe ngl.

>>15507578
What are Latin, Greek, Old English, Old French, ...?
Learning an ancient language is the closest you can possibly come to interacting with your ancestors. Just because you don't use it to chat with mindless normies on Facebook doesn't mean learning a language is futile, let alone "sociopathic".

I'm learning Japanese and it doesn't seem that hard but in comparison European languages look easy as fuck, I feel like I could learn them in no time. I could go on a random French wikipedia article and understand a surprising amount already and I never even tried to learn French before so it seems easy. If I was actually speaking regularly with native speakers I feel I could learn any language in no time

>>15507608
the typical chink in a university setting is pretty lit desu

Sorry that you have to live life as a brainlet, OP.

>>15507730
See look, I know absolutely no french but I can read this fine

Napoléon Bonaparte, né le 15 août 1769 à Ajaccio et mort le 5 mai 1821 sur l'île Sainte-Hélène, est un militaire et homme d'État français, premier empereur des Français, du 18 mai 1804 au 6 avril 1814 et du 20 mars au 22 juin 1815, sous le nom de Napoléon Ier.

>Napoleon Bonaparte, born on 15 August 1769 at Ajaccio and died on 5 May 1821 on the island of Saint Helena, was a French soldier and the first Emperor of France, from 18 May 1804 to 6 April 1814 and from 20 March to 22 June 1815 under the name Napoleon the first

is there anyone here who is a native english speaker that has learned russian for the purpose of reading lit? How long did it take you to get to read without constantly consulting a dictionary?

>>15507824
>est un militaire et homme d'État français, premier empereur des Français
>was a French soldier and the first Emperor of France
It sure is telling that as soon as you got to something which you can't easily interpret based on the surrounding text you fucked up.

>>15507824
You know what to expect from an article header.

>>15507839
I knew I fucked up there but I looked up what "est" means(should have known) and now I get what it's saying, he established "the" or "a" French military and the position of "Emperor of France"

So yeah, not perfect but it's still surprisingly easy to interpret European languages

>>15507865
Holy shit please keep posting, this is comedy gold.

>>15507494
Ithkuil is very interesting, I think it has a lot of potential.

>>15507869
Am I wrong again?

Okay, remember I know 0 French. I never said I'd get it perfectly.

honhonhon
un baguette
eiffel tower

>>15507869
So I put it into google translate and I was basically right the first time, I just missed out "statesman" cause I thought "militaire et homme d'État français" was a full title of "French soldier"

Seems like a minor mistake to me you asshole

>>15507891
It might be a "minor" mistake but it completely ruins your point. You are taking something that is irregularly easy to interpret due to it being information written in a very standardized way, looking at the shared words and then extrapolating. You could literally blank out half of the sentence and still get as close as you did.

>>15507910
not him but you are totally missing his point. HE DOESN'T KNOW FRENCH. he is just demonstrating how euros can intuitively parse some of the basics of each other's written languages.

>>15507921
No I'm not missing the point. He's using an extremely simple, almost contrived, example to overstate the intelligibility between european languages.

>>15507875
>>15507875
I also really like it, it can be really expressive (see pic related), but what makes it unlearnable is not the amount of categories, but their implementation -- some of the mandatory parts of words literally have thousands of mostly irregular forms. The new language is going to fix that and some other inconsistencies while making it more efficient and easier to learn. What I really like about Ithkuilic languages is that the complex morphology allows lots of words to be derived from a small amount of roots, which in turn frees up phoneme space for some really complicated roots. I especially like its roots for emotions: see in the link below (that's the current lexicon for the new language, it's still not finished so it might change later), mostly on pages 156-173, actually the whole thing is awesome imo
http://www.ithkuil.net/list_of_roots_v_0_3.pdf

>>15507910
That IS my point, it's comparatively easy for me to extrapolate from what I do know. Of course I don't know what I don't know so that's the only way I *can* know it. my point is compared to other languages European ones are easy to interpret based on the knowledge you already have so i feel like it wouldn't be that hard to learn it outright if I devoted time and attention to it. My point wasn't that I magically know French, it's that it's surprisingly easy(comparatively) to "guess" a lot of it.

But I only tried this with wikipedia articles so I don't know if it works in other places, maybe you're
right

>>15507927
No, his example is ideal, because he can read most of it but makes some mistakes, therefore this example shows the approximate level of intelligibility without any study. And it's actually not "extremely simple", if you did the same exercise with say English vs. Arabic or English vs. Tagalog, there would be a HUGE difference.

>>15507938
>it's that it's surprisingly easy(comparatively) to "guess" a lot of it.
It's easy BECAUSE of what you're choosing to sample. It's not anywhere near as representative of what you'd read in a typical day if you did everything in French as you're making it out to be. I'm not trying to completely discount that, yes, as a native English (or other European language, or even as an L2 speaker of a European language), you will have an easier time than learning Japanese. My problem is entirely with the way you're framing it, and way overblowing the level of mutual intelligibility.

>>15507824
This does help to an extent especially when you already know another romance language. I know Latin and two other romance languages and I find the ones I don't know surprisingly easy, usually I can half or 3/4 read them at the very least. But like the other anon said you will be lost when reading real shit, especially if the language is highly irregular like French.

Spanish is pretty easy once you learn the basic words but French is a piece of shit about how it uses its basic words to form expressions with different meanings that simply can't be broken down into simpler meanings. You just have to know what it means.

>>15507961
>>15507962
Okay I change my mind I think you're right I didn't really think it through.

The fact that this thread is filled with posts written in correct, grammatical, colloquial, idiomatic, vernacular modern English, yet a significant percentage of its participants (including me) are Euros whose native language is not English and who have never lived in an English-speaking country, immediately disproves OP's claims.

>>15508000
>yet a significant percentage of its participants (including me) are Euros whose native language is not English
Do you have any evidence to back this up?

>>15507824
Try this one?
>D'argent au sapin au naturel issant de trois coupeaux de sinople, chapé ployé de gueules à la croix tréflée d'argent à dextre et à l'étoile à sept rais du même à senestre

>>15508020
Anon you're 6 minutes too late for that conversation.

>>15508011
Not him but there's at least me, so that's at least 3% of the anons

>>15508011
Let's have a roll call and see. Denmark reporting in

>>15503816
Tfw 191cm and 7in

>>15508025
Damn it!

>>15508000
You just made several mistakes you don't even realize, so if anything, you're proving OP's points.

>>15508261
>several mistakes
I'd love to hear them

>>15505518
>tfw learning sanskrit, tibetan and mandarin simultaneously

>>15508261
You say “mistakes” as if the English language were the exclusive property of your country. You cannot dictate to someone what is right and what is not.

>>15508020
Okay so I can't read the sentence but after some detective work I think it's about heraldry.
If it is then dude I don't even know that shit IN ENGLISH, but I know that "argentum" is silver in Latin and I know "Dexter" and "Sinister" are "right" and "left" so I was thinking something silver and something silver in threes to the right and a tail?(l'étoile) of seven something to the left. After that I thought it was describing a coat of arms, so while I was looking for one that matched the description I found out that D'argent probably doesn't mean "silver" but a heraldry color(I had no idea these existed) called "Argent" which is basically silver but in heraldry. from there I found the other colors and realized they are similar to those other words like "gueules" which looks like "gules" meaning "red" so now I'm sure it's heraldry but I'm pretty sure your sentence is basically nonsense without context anyway. I went through too much effort for that...

>>15503778
>Natives who spot your mistakes will mock you behind your back at best.
Only assholes who don't know how hard it is to learn a language do this

>>15503778
>If you have below average height (<6 ft) or penis length, you simply lack the masculinity necessary to complete a task requiring thousands of hours of study and practice. And if you lack a penis, don't even think about trying.
wtf is this logic
Kant learned multiple languages and he was a goblin
for decades, the #1 authority in the west on Avestan was a woman

>>15508467
That's pretty good. It's describing a coat of arms. I was wondering how you'd do without the easy encyclopedia format.

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvan

How do you explain this OP?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8Ic4w2zdeDU

>>15503778
>Natives who spot your mistakes will mock you behind your back at best. To be really fluent, you need gargantuan amounts of info, down to every annoying little convoluted rule. Without active guidance, you could study for decades and still sound stupid, and even a little girl will laugh at your mistakes,
I would just like to say that I don't really buy this, these minor mistakes that are hard to shake are never really perceived as stupid by native speakers because they're usually consistent among people of the same mother language. Speaking simply from my own experience as an American native English speaker, you hear Mexicans all making the same sorts of grammatical errors, same goes for the Polish people I've grown up around. Because they're all the exact same mistakes it's never "they're too stupid to learn the language" it's "oh that's the same mistake that I hear all native Spanish or or Polish speakers making" it comes across more like an accent, just a holdover from their original language

>>15508282
>>15508419
Nope, ask a professional tutor to fix them for you. Not doing it for free.

>>15503778
what are you a fucking linguist or something? gtfo

>>15508572
>Nyope, ask a pwofessionyaw tutow to fix them fow you. Nyot doing it fow fwee. ÒwÓ
stupid larper

>>15508572
>it's not my job to educate you shitlord

>>15508512
I'm glad it was in the right ball park cause at first I thought it was something like a chemical composition.

>>15503778
/lit/ I have a question. I want to learn Italian and Latin. Which one first?
Latin then Italian or
Italian then Latin

>>15508672
Both at the same time

>>15508672
Learn Latin, Old Latin, Italian, Medieval Italian, Sanskrit, and Biblical Hebrew.

>>15508722
>no Greek
pleb

>>15508672
>guys which superficial badge of intellectual status should i pick up effortlessly so i can look smart in front of everyone?
nigger if you have to ask instead of being halfway there by now youre never going to make it?

>>15508735
gotta start somewhere nigger

>>15508731
roll gyros for ahmad faggot

>>15508522
Even when people do make novel mistakes, it's usually not something people laugh at unless the mistake results in a statement that is unintentionally vulgar or something. And even then it's not so much laughing at the person as it is just being taken aback by something so unexpected.

>>15508672
I don't think anyone who's actually learned a language has ever asked that question. You just have to find a language that you REALLY like (enough to dedicate countless of hours of your time to it) and you'll learn it.

>>15507596
French is easy for a well-read native English speaker to read because damn near every word is a cognate of something, just a more obscure word than what we would naturally use in English. It's not hard at all to see something like "j'ai envie de" and think "oh, he has an envy of something, it means he wants it" in a roundabout way, or to see "les doigts" and think "oh, fingers, like digits."
Spoken French just loses half of the letters and makes words harder to recognize, plus their ligatures make it very hard for an English speaker to parse where words stop and start. "Doigts" when spoken quickly sounds virtually identical to "doi" for example, which makes it way harder to pick up on the cognate. This is somewhat true of all languages with cognates but French exaggerates both cases by having such a huge difference between its orthography and its pronunciation.

>>15508799
And what's the easiest language for a native English speaker to learn?

>>15508816
I've heard arguments for Norwegian, Spanish, and French that all seemed convincing.

>>15508816
Chinese

>>15508816
To spoken and written fluency? I think French is still overall the easiest, although Italian has similar advantages while also being much easier to pronounce and hear in my opinion. I know zero German but supposedly vocabulary is very easy to pick up on, it's just got a more complicated grammar to pick up.
I don't know many people who speak Nordic languages but I feel like they might also be contenders. All these groups are easy just by how closely related they are to English.

>>15508816
italian-american AKA the language of the gods

>>15503778
>OP this a retarded take. You sound like an emo teenager who moans because they were born too early. You go on a power trip complaining about height and dick length, pathetic
You can't miss what you don't know. A tourist who reads a poor translation of a text has atleast read the text. You will waste your life trying to be meme (reading books in their original language) you can only manage to understand a few languages to a native level speaker, and most of it is worthless.
Read what you what when you want. Really /lit is a bunch of pretentious faggots who try hard to exclude as many people from their fort like a toddler. You like 90% of people here want to have something others won't get. You struggle to stand out so you hold onto something as miniscule as reading a single text. Hippies go to jungles and try to learn ancient civilizations but you don't see them going on power trips when they discover a stupid hallucinogenic herb used thousands of years back.

>>15508854
I'm glad that, much like with the job market, robots are beginning to take over 4chan posting positions. Soon I will be free to waste my life somewhere else.

>>15503778
>If you have below average height (<6 ft) or penis length, you simply lack the masculinity necessary to complete a task requiring thousands of hours of study and practice

>>15508572
this is the most retarded poster in this thread

>>15508943
ban wojakposters

>>15508572
>Nope, ask a professional tutor to fix them for you. Not doing it for free.
cringe

>>15509046
>>15508947
>>15508615
Spotted the underachievers expecting gibes

>>15508816
Swedish/Norwegian/Danish/German/Dutch

>>15509062
i don't even know wtf you even want money for but you realize this is 4chan? you realize that if people are having a casual debate on here and suddenly you say "you are wrong, but i'm not going to give you my counterargument for free, that would be gibs" you look like a retarded child?

>>15509093
He's a literal sophist, dios mio.

>>15509093
if you wanna be a janny cuck who does it for free do so but dont expect anything but noise from people smart enough to be selfish

>>15509121
We should make an anonymous imageboard where posters have to attach bitcoin wallets or Venmo accounts and pay for the privilege of receiving (You)s

>>15509121
just admit it, you couldn't find anything wrong, so you started this pathetic larp

>>15509266
as you sleep remember to keep me in your head rent free as you perplex yourself about errors you made

>>15509270
not me, are you OP?

>>15508512
>Écartelé, en 1 et 4 : coupé et parti en 3, au premier fascé de gueules et d'argent, au deuxième d'azur semé de lys d'or et au lambel de gueules, au troisième d'argent à la croix potencée d'or, cantonnée de quatre croisettes du même, au quatrième d'or aux quatre pals de gueules, au cinquième d'azur semé de lys d'or et à la bordure de gueules, au sixième d'azur au lion contourné d'or, armé, lampassé et couronné de gueules, au septième d'or au lion de sable armé et lampassé de gueules, au huitième d'azur semé de croisettes d'or et aux deux bar d'or. Sur le tout d'or à la bande de gueules chargé de trois alérions d'argent le tout brisé d'un lambel de gueules ; en 2 et 3 contre-écartelé en 1 et 4 d'azur, à l'aigle d'argent, becquée, languée et couronnée d'or et en 2 et 3 d'azur, à trois fleurs de lys d'or, à la bordure endentée de gueules et d'or.
Essaye donc de te le représenter, à moins d'être un expert dans ce domaine, c'est tout à fait impossible.

>>15505491
Holy kek

>>15508363
Why

>>15509621
this

>>15503778

I am trilingual anon, cope harder.

Y si onions un poco mas chaparro

Mais mon penus est gros.

>>15510459
>onions
You mean cebollas

>>15510459
>>15510480
Another pseud EXPOSED

y'all retards

>>15510835
monoglot cope

>>>/r9k/

>>15503778
All the greats read translations. You incel larpers mean nothing in the big scheme of things. And no, I'm not a monolongual, not even a native English speaker.

>>15510904
>no, I'm not a monolongual
>monolongual

>>15510917
>ONHO H-HE MADE A TYPO!!!!
Here's your fucking "i", scumbag. Eat it.

>>15510957
>ONHO

>>15510984
cope

>>15504107
The thesis measures 'authenticity' in terms of merely being written down, when in fact the authentic is rare in *any* vernacular literature. Is reading Wilhelm Meister part one a more authentic 'reading experience' in German as opposed to English? Sure, but at the end of the day it makes very little difference. OP does purport to attempt to present at least the appearance of a fair argument, but the ultimate discouraging of reading literature in translation is more than a little smug, especially by a denizen of this board.

>>15510957
youre illiterate

>>15510987
how can you say op's being fair when the entire shitpost is filled with dishonest arguments and insults?