/lit/ - Literature

>>15468330
Nietzsche was a beautiful cope. His entire philosophy is an argument against Schopenhauer that ultimately failed.
>what do?
Schopenhauer has the answers.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I have been there. I saw the coherence of nihilism, but sensed it to be deeply incompatible with society. I believe I have been healed from this position, and I feel that my beliefs are far more consistent with my intuitions and nature now. I recommend The Brothers Karamazov. Dostoevsky saw the same darkness and problems as Nietzsche and worked though it, to a much more true and beautiful result.

>>15469195
Oath

>>15468330
Look up Transformation Mastery

Don't feel bad. Even Nietzsche himself couldn't handle it.

OP unironically pray to God that He will come to you and give you strength. Nietzsche is completely, totally correct if God does not exist. But God DOES exist. If Nietzsche seems incompatible with reality as it truly is, it's because Nietzsche did not truly understand reality as it truly is, because he did not have faith.

Or, if calling on God Himself is too much for you, call on Holy Mother Mary to come to your aid. Mary is always there to comfort us when we feel lost and alone, because God gave all of humanity to her and she is our celestial mother. Mary will be there for you when no one else seems to be.

>>15469377
>coping with nihilism
>by becoming part of a cult

No thanks

>>15469387
But that's the whole point, it's NOT a cult. Nietzsche thought it was a cult, but he was wrong, and if he "feels" wrong to the OP, it's because the OP's feelings are true and Nietzsche IS wrong. It's not a cult. Nietzsche was a very intelligent and perceptive man, and he was right about many things. But the OP's feelings are correct. Nietzsche is wrong about this. It's not a cult. Instead, it's the most important thing in the world, and that Nietzsche could not see this is a shame on his part. It's not a cult. It's the most important thing in the world. It's all that matters, in the end.

>>15469410
>Argumentnotfound.exe
>If I repeat it's not a cult many times then it's not a cult.
You are a Cult; a cult that demands Belief...or else.

>>15468330
>i know nietzsche is all about overcoming nihilism on your own terms but the more i think about it, the more this shit is depressing mang. i feel like if i truly accept nihilism i’ll have some sort of psychotic breakdown like nichee.
>i feel like if i truly accept nihilism
You don't need to accept it; its already "here".
>God is Dead
The Christian God became the Awareness of the Meta-Narrative: Death.

Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound 250 ff (trans. Weir Smyth) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :
>"Prometheus : Yes, I caused mortals to cease foreseeing their Doom (Moros).
>Chorus : Of what sort was the cure that you found for this affliction?
>Prometheus : I caused Blind Hopes (Elpides) to dwell within their breasts.
>Chorus : A great benefit was this you gave to mortals."
>Prometheus seems to be saying that he was the one who stayed Hope inside the jar, when the other evils escaped.
Christianity robbed us from Hope.

>Foreseeing the certainty of their own Death would deprive mortals of lifealtogether, since life thrives in the partial vacuum of fear and hope poised between desire and its object. Eros, as human life, is what Plato called a μὴ ὄν, an ephemeral state of existence
>Hence human life, psychoanalysis teaches us wittingly or unwittingly, is mortal because It already contains death as one of its essential elements.
>We experience this cataclysmic opening or “clearing”( Lichtung ) at rare, historical moments as death itself. We have seen that “Death” can have no physical meaning.
https://www.academia.edu/25721823/Blind_Hope_In_Aeschyluss_Prometheus_Bound

>why did he even write his works to share if nothing matters
Because it's the Meta-Narrative that doesn't matter.
An Ephemeral Existance means that the only thing to do is to create things of Beauty.
Chan Culture; here Content Creation is the Highest Value and why even though Digital & Anonymous, it feels more Alive and Real than being IRL.

>>15468330
Well his so-called "breakdown" was actually just brain cancer, unless you're referring to his radical anti-Wagnerian phase which generated Zarathustra and everything after, but that was just him having an epiphany.

As far as nothing mattering, that is a value in itself, the value of a body that is sick. Values are related to bodies. Nietzsche was concerned with elevating humanity by elevating their bodily health. He criticized everyone who ignored their bodily health and who equipped children with blinders towards the immediate physical world by teaching their radical idealisms.

>>15469410
>>15469377
Getting so tired of Crosscucks

>>15471092
I thought it was some degenerative disease that his father also suffered from. Either way, not a break down in the sense that OP means

>>15468330
I've been there and I've had the psychotic breakdown, I've sat in my bed for days without food or drink. I've been disassociative and had out-of-body experiences. I spent months without leaving the house or talking to others.

Nihilism is the most probable truth.
There's no reason to live.
There's no reason to die.
BUT to say this absolutely conclusively is arrogance.
Live out the rest of your life pursuing truth because you may be wrong and you may gain some further knowledge.

Your life is so temporary and meaningles, may as well explore it to the end without fear. Worst case scenario, you're right.

/lit/-types will give you many other pathetic, illogical answers and coping strategies but none of them work.

Nietzscheans are mentally ill. Who would've though lul

>>15471117
No one knows for sure. Physicians can only guess based on what little info was recorded back then. It could have been something neurodegenerative.

>>15469570
Hope you're an anarchist if you just said those words you faggot.

>>15468330
If you stay in the West you're just going to keep rocking back and forth between Nihilism and intellectually cucking yourself with religion. This is not a criticism of religion, but if you're solely adopting a religion so you don't get depressed about a lack of meaning yes, you are intellectually cucking yourself, and you know it, you're just doing it with religion. If you're intellectually capable of recognizing nihilism, you're simply going to always be running away from it.

I personally find the Buddhist process of stepping outside of the Nihilism-Eternalism pendulum to be an answer that's simply not found in Western philosophy. Accepting the impermanence of life is the answer, and trying to dig back to some root-cause, or some unchanging answer isn't going to work, because it doesn't work, and the moment something shakes your faith in this root cause you're just going to go back to being depressed and Nihilistic. Step outside of the pendulum, and embrace what is.

>>15471117
Isn't it accepted that it was late-stage syphilis?

>>15471181
>Isn't it accepted that it was late-stage syphilis?
Not anymore.

http://www.leonardsax.com/Nietzsche.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140521184723/http://www.brainlife.org/reprint/2007/owen_070900.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20110706132408/http://www.actaneurologica.be/acta/download/2008-1/02-Hemelsoet%20et%20al.pdf

>>15471203
Well shit, I stand corrected.

>>15471181
I don't know about "accepted", but I too have seen this theory. Given that his father reportedly suffered from a similar condition, I lean towards the hereditary, degenerative disease hypothesis.

This >>15471148 I guess

>>15471203
Tip of the hat to you, sir

>>15471181
Easy to say when you're taken care of in your temple.

"Embrace impermanence" doesn't fix anything and isn't a solution. So your life is meaningless and temporary? Then what? Stop eating because it doesn't matter?

see my answer>>15471130

>>15471254
Literally none of that applies to Buddhism. At all. Jainism, sure, yeah, but not Buddhism.

>>15471273
Your Buddhism is a pathetic coping strategy

>>15471298
You're the one that's having psychotic breakdowns, refusing to eat or drink, having disassociative and out-of-body experiences, going months without leaving the room or talking to others, all because God isn't real so you don't get to live forever.

>>15468330
>i know nietzsche is all about overcoming nihilism on your own terms but the more i think about it, the more this shit is depressing mang. i feel like if i truly accept nihilism i’ll have some sort of psychotic breakdown like nichee. am i the only one that just finds this idea depressing only.
It's okay, dude, this is actually where I kind of have to step away from N and rely on secondary sources (in particular, Deleuze) to pump me back to the affirmative end of Dionysian Pessimism (especially if you take the WTP deadly serious and realize the scope of nihilism required in your/the cultural historical sequence of overcoming is more daunting than conceivable). I will say that, hey, man, it's not your fault you cannot conceptualize something that literally requires completely new apparatuses of conceptualization. I think culturally we'll be in the camel stage (like not even the reactionary lion stage) for another millennium, and the best I can hope for is to try to find the beat of my own drum whilst constantly scathing myself of idols. This particularly disturbs me as an artist because I guess the ultimate question I have to overcome daily is "Why do I need art?" i.e., why do I need this placeholder god to generate values for me? Why don't I have the strength to make stuff for myself unconditioned? And why "need" in the first place? The very line of questioning is still stuck, in a sense, at the level of sorting through meaninglessness.

>>15471324
GODDAMN anon, I thought murder was forbidden in Buddhism!

>>15471298
Embracing the meaninglessness seems like the opposite of cope. Pure Buddhism is scary and in practice feels like you are annihilating yourself.

>>15471324
My problems stem from attempting to make sense of the world and everything, given my preconceived beliefs. I had to break down everything and separate myself to accurately understand. I bore the pain that you can't handle, what made you retreat into your safe, pathetic religion, a social system, where you claim enlightenment.

I call you wrong and it's no insult to you people cannot perceive truth, you only believe what is a social expression.

>>15471360
A structured religion isn't "embracing" meaninglessness. It's hiding from it.

>>15468330
I mean, Nietzsche demonstrates how, from Kant onward, western philosophy can justify valuing nothingness. But the brilliant thing is the transcendental turn: IF nihilism is true, and nothing matters, then the only acceptable behaviour is to kill yourself. In the very fact that you, and Nietzsche, and even S(cope)nhauer continue to live and write and rage against the world, you demonstrably reject nihilism at its very core, and tacitly assert "something DOES matter". The result of Nietzsche isn't "nothing matters, why bother", instead it's a rejection of that, and an affirmation that you need to decide what matters on your own. The dread you experience is the fear of freedom, the fear of deciding what to do, the fear of being truly and completely responsible for your actions. God bless you my son, hopefully your journey will go on. If you want some more development of life, try Hegel or Kierkegaard

>>15471130
Suiwo, the disciple of Hakuin, was a good teacher. During one summer seclusion period, a pupil came to him from a southern island of Japan.

Suiwo gave him the problem: "Hear the sound of one hand."

The pupil remained three years but could not pass this test. One night he came in tears to Suiwo. "I must return south in shame and embarrassment," he said, "for I cannot solve my problem."

"Wait one week more and meditate constantly," advised Suiwo. Still no enlightenment came to the pupil. "Try for another week," said Suiwo. The pupil obeyed, but in vain.

"Still another week." Yet this was of no avail. In despair the student begged to be released, but Suiwo requested another meditation of five days. They were without result. Then he said: "Meditate for three days longer, then if you fail to attain enlightenment, you had better kill yourself."

On the second day the pupil was enlightened.

>>15471380
>IF nihilism is true, and nothing matters, then the only acceptable behaviour is to kill yourself.
I don’t see how this follows at all. Maybe if you’re going to bitch and whine how sad you are that nothing has any true meaning, otherwise I see no reason not to live.

Maybe one ought to keep nihilism to oneself, as suicide is a very personal decision and you don't know others like you know yourself.

>>15471373
The structure is designed to help you shed the illusion of meaning. I think you are confusing buddhism in its essence with the sort of folk religion that grew around it.

Growing up I never read philosophy, nor had I been brought up in a religous tradition
I did not even consider that there should be a 'meaning' or 'purpose' for my life until I was 14 or 15
I didn't seek out an answer from someone else, I simply asked the question to myself, and responded to myself.
>What is it that you were born to do?
>To enjoy my time with the people I'm close to.
This is not a hedonistic enjoyment, but simply the thorough living of life. I want to be happy with those dear to me, and help them be happy in turn. For me, enjoying life also entails living ethically since I feel like shit when I do bad things.
If I could figure this out without Neachie or Geezus, I'm sure you'll be alright, Anon.
All that said, I did later become interested in philosophy and religion, ended up studying them in university as my major. I still don't prescribe to any one religion though.

>>15468330
welcome to the club lad

>>15471373
>i'm a dark and brooding antihero who understands everything you cannot fathom MY PAIN
Perhaps not. But then, you're the one who is unhappy, having psychotic breakdowns, refusing to eat or drink, having disassociative and out-of-body experiences, going months without leaving the room or talking to others, all because God isn't real so you don't get to live forever. I'm not experiencing any of those things. So perhaps you could cut the brooding anti-hero thing out for a day, and spend some time actually learning about Buddhism, and maybe it'd change your mind and be a bit happier.

>>15471426
>>15471466
Either you have the rationality to comprehend nihilism or you require a social group to accomplish "enlightenment".

I do not believe the brain driven towards a social organization is the same brain that can understand meaninglessness. You experience social enlightenment. You experience motivation like a teenager experiences bravery in front of his friends. It's a farce.

>>15471383
>>15471130
Do you get it or not?

>>15471476
>you require a social group to accomplish "enlightenment".
No you don't. There's no "social" required, there's plenty of monks and masters and the like who are said to have achieved enlightenment by wandering into a cave or the woods and meditating for a year or whatever. Ending attachment to thinks like social approval is part of being a monk.

You're not an ubermensch, you just like wallowing in your loneliness and jerking off about how it makes you smarter than everyone else.

even if existence is meaningless, youve been born with a consciousness whose machinery is itself arbitrary

the solution to a symmetic differential equation whose boundary conditions are asymmetric is itself asymetric. from that perspective, the inherent meaninglessness of life is actually irrelevant.

all one must do is take advantage of that original asymmetry and meaning can be found.

ofc, I anticipate your argument. "an asymmetry of human existence is a lie!"; but actually it isnt a lie at all. its a truth you need to stop rejecting.

>>15471476
You really think that you can tell us you're mentally ill (breakdowns, dissasociation, refusing to eat, out-of-body experience, locking yourself in the house), and then pretend you're some sort of rational, put-together guy that just has everything figured out?
Buddy, you're a mess. Get some help, seriously. Talk to your parents and tell them you're in a tough place.

>>15469195
i spent the whole night reading crime and punishment from beginning to end because of this post. thank you anon

>>15471492
I assume it's making the same argument I make here >>15471476

The enlightenment isn't real. It's, ironically, the complete opposite where the student's fear of death drives his social projection of enlightenment.

>>15471518
Tell me about how calculus solves the happiness equation now.

>>15471536
Again, you literally can't comprehend any of this. It's why you make appeals to "being happy". Your brain cannot comprehend this so don't worry about it.

>>15471492

not him, but I dont get it at all. pls explain. desu, I think there is some finesse involved with any spiritual/mystical lit. there should be a grain of truth, but its important to be as opaque as possible so readers are forced to fill in their own answers.

>>15471476
The Buddha himself went into social isolation and the practice of buddhism is largely solitary meditation. But the result of this at least as far as I went isn't isolation it's a dissolution into everything. In meditation you achieve a state that makes you unable to differentiate between yourself and a chair or a rock. Doesn't really have much to do with rationality, it's the development of an altered consciousness.

>>15471549

it was an analogy, and now all you are concerned with is knowing how "calculus solves the happiness equation"? it sounds stupid asf, Ive gotta be honest.

maybe you can ask a more concrete/constructive question?

>>15471549
>I assume it's making the same argument I make here
No
>The enlightenment isn't real. It's, ironically, the complete opposite where the student's fear of death drives his social projection of enlightenment.
I'll try to explain it again.

If reason told you to jump into Hell, would you? Because that is exactly what has happened.

You worship human reason as if it's some sort of infinite god, but human reason is limited. Don't believe me? Read some philosophy. That is literally all they talk about. Socrates? I know nothing except that I know nothing. Hume? Literally said that we can't prove causality exists. Kant? Wrote a gigantic book and called it The CRITIQUE of Pure Reason.

Reason is not god, it is a tool we use do to things in the world. Like a knife, we can either make nice food and help people or we can stab people to death. All I'm seeing you do is stab people to death. So stop.

>>15471717
What a great non-argument

>>15471130
>had out-of-body experiences
tell me about this, anon

>>15471549

if you cant appreciate beauty, then Id probably just kill myself.

>>15471536
why do you keep listing all these experiences of his every time?

>>15471717
Kants book is to be read as a critique OF pure reason

>>15468343
where do I start with schop?

>>15471549
>It's why you make appeals to "being happy".
No I didn't, I made an appeal that you need help because you're suffering from psychosis and delusions, schizoid.

>>15471757
My compassion gets the better of me sometimes.

>>15471822
:(

you did well, anon

>>15468330
>according to him.
No. According to what everyone had found to be the fact of the matter.
> why does what he says matter,
You have to say what matters. The cost of your freedom is your autonomy. You decide your course. What’re you, an stray ant?
> i’ll have some sort of psychotic breakdown like nichee
He suffered a physical ailment that overtook him. He didn’t breakdown because of his thoughts

Yhwh’s anus pictured. Or is it?

>>15469377
If you're gonna be a religious at least pick something rad like ancient greek shit. Christianity is a waste of fucking time

>>15471774
I was drinking every day and barely sleeping.

Most days and weeks would run together and the excerpts were like viewing my home from across the street or like a camera positioned in my roof looking down at me or from the eyes of another person as that person. Events weren't experienced as they were happening, instead they would appear as memories condensed and pieced together where I could appear in certain places without understanding how I got there.

>>15471822
Your pursuit of knowledge is actually a pursuit of self-satisfaction. Truth is what makes you feel good.

>>15471803
Kant

>>15468330
imagine being such a little bitch you are not only struggling with the meaning of life but you have to have the meaning of life fed to you by whatever reddit tier popular pseud is the current fad and spend your time reading that kind of pseud garbage. this board's obsession with this shit is pathetic.

>>15471549
You unironically sound like you may be suffering from low testosterone levels. You should go get that checked out if you have reasonable medical access and a means of confidentiality. Wishing you the best!

>>15471943
>gets btfo
>starts acting passive aggresive
and I thought women weren't on this website anymore

>>15471888
>Your pursuit of knowledge is actually a pursuit of self-satisfaction. Truth is what makes you feel good.
lol You think you know the truth, but I bet you couldn't even ascertain the truth of a relatively difficult chess position. And your whole life is destroyed because of it? How pathetic.

>>15471888
>Truth is what makes you feel good.
Truth is what makes you feel bad.
Get it?
I'm done.

>>15471975
>Would that it were not true!
Wussy

>>15471888
You're an alcoholic with delusions, you aren't an enlightened genius. I would feel bad for you, but you're such an insufferable prick that I'm giving up.
Nothing matters, oh no, woe is you, boo-fucking-hoo.

>>15471950
I’m a completely different individual than the Buddhist you’ve been conversing with and my suggestion was completely sincere. Even a poster earlier in this thread mentioned the high regard Nietzche held for bodily health. Getting tested wouldn’t do you any more harm than what you’re already subjecting yourself to and can be a contributing factor to helping you and your situation. Not everyone here is seeking to be antagonistic for no reason. What’s the point?

He's desperately trying to point out to you the *uninvited* guest in your consciousness, the meta-narrative, the notion that "things matter because of x" that grounds your decision-making and that inflicts emotions on you. The mechanism that keeps you at your job, while registering an "ironic" distaste for work in your "character" that festers into its own inertia, the weight of your decision-making. Who is telling you to post, who is telling me to post, why I'm posting, why you're posting, what's gonna arouse my hunger and lead to my leaving the house in a hurry, and ultimately the decision I'll make to run that red light and get pulled over god dammit why did my mother have to give birth to me and start this whole thing up?

>>15469377
Imagine being an unironic christcuck.

Not trying to be an edge lord but I think a mature society would allow for euthanasia and call the matter settled. Outsource the problem to nature.

Is this immature?

>>15469597
I like where this is going, can you elaborate for a brainlet

>>15473931
>I like where this is going, can you elaborate for a brainlet
What part did you not get?
What would you like me to expand on?

>>15469362
>Transformation Mastery
this looks like some 2005-era affiliate marketing scheme selling digital self improvement courses

>>15468330
>nothing matters
Beauty does, anon. And even in struggle there can be beauty. The Greeks knew it and we forgot.

>>15469377
>committing philosophical suicide
shiggy diggy

What I’ve discovered that tolerance of nihilism has a lot to do with a person’s hormonal profiles. A depressed person with bad hormonal markers will react terribly to nihilism, but an alpha with high testosterone and dopamine will welcome the nihilist life as it were a challenge to him.

Nihilism is undoubtedly THE great filter.

>>15468330
Nihilism is cringe and so is religion. Dig into Greek philosophy instead, would recommend Stoicism. Read A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy by William B. Irvine.

>>15474809
>stoicism didn't have a religious basis
>watered down stoicism for modern self-help bugmen
filtered

>>15469377
I just called my mom,
Thanks anon

>>15471502
>you just like wallowing in your loneliness and jerking off about how it makes you smarter than everyone else.
you could say the same about the monks . and probably would do if you dont share the same believes.

>>15471181
Believing in karma and rebirth is almost as big a cope as an omnipotent omnibenevolent super being directing everything according to their will.

>>15471561
oh guy. if you know that its a classical rationalization... and something probably every human think one time or another. the fact that you fly around that idea all your life dont make it an "altered consciousness" or "enlightmen". its a thought. every thought is abstract.

>>15468330
I figured it out last year:
1. Nietzsche says old (christianity) bad
2. Nietzsche looks for better answer
3. Nietzsche gathers ideas, ignores organizing them
4. Nietzsche loses sense of meaning (reinforcing "old bad, must search for good")
5. Nietzsche recognizes irony but can't stop gathering and start creating, his brain can't take it, and it breaks. His fear of being confined by the world ended up confining him to his bed

Don't be like Nietzsche. Make your own meaning by BORROWING ideas first. Ex nihilo nihil fit - you don't just find truth out of nothing.

>>15471803
Just jump into The World as Will and Representation it's amazing.

Then Kant's Prolegomena to fill in the gaps.

>>15468343
What asceticism and “art”? Another great cope. The only one with answers is Mainländer.

>>15477360
You don't have to go all out with asceticism, Schopenhauer offers a middleground.

what do I need meaning?

>>15477480
why*

>>15474809
I love Stoic philosophy, but it is coping, too.

>muh virtues
>muh memento mori
>muh premeditatio malorum

Etc, etc.
I mean it is a kinda healthy philosophy that makes you stronger and "better"... yet it is still coping.

>>15469410
kys

>>15469377
Which god? Oh, the one that's arbitrarily culturally relevant to our specific time period and geographic location? Makes sense

>>15477879
I don't see the word cope as bad, everyone should learn to cope with life and Stoicism provides healthy and effective techniques to do it.
>>15475522
Please, stop posting cringe.

>>15478473
>I don't see the word cope as bad
You should.
>everyone should learn to cope with life
No. Everyone should learn to learn to abide their suffering. Coping doesn't allow for that.

>>15477360
Art goes beyond words and your petty beliefs.

lmao @ all of you whiny bitches
im making so much money and fucking so many bitches that this nonsense never even occurs to me
sucks to be you

>>15471461
who is that in the bottom left corner?

>>15468330
>overcoming
>nihilism

Pick one.

>>15478473
>Please, stop posting cringe.
Not an argument

>>15478628
>still posts on a Thai rice farming forum
Yeah man

>>15478596
Maybe coping isn't the right word then, English is not my first language but I think Stoicism teaches you methods to do what you just said.

>>15478662
Let nihilism eat what it can, emerge in a world full of meaning once it leaves.

>>15478662
Suicide is affirmation of nihilism

>>15471447
Muh feelies

>>15478628
Go enjoy life anon. Imagine if we managed to infect you with any of these thought-forms. Not good for you, anon.

>>15479934
problem?

>>15478935
There are people like that though. Why aren't you one of them, honey?