/lit/ - Literature

>>15470465
>being paid to talk about books all day
A teacher is paid for being able to control a classroom full of loud, disobedient retards, marking their retarded work and generally sitting doing nothing. Unless you're gonna teach some ultra gifted school, high school students will drive you to suicide.

>>15470477
Consider private, higher end schools. It's a little better

>>15470477
Totally depends on the school. Inner city public schools yes, private schools are a different breed.

>>15470465
Yeah as long as you aren't teaching a bunch of niggers

>>15470477
This. Never worked in a private school but I know someone who did and while it's undoubtedly much better, it's not some kind of Dead Poet's Society paradise. Teenagers are teenagers, no matter how rich their daddy is. Your best bet is an academically selective school but good luck getting work in those without an excellent academic record and good deal of experience.

What are the advantages of teaching in high school over teaching at university?

Grammar schools perhaps. I use to teach maths at an elite private school and the English teachers complained about the amount of essay marking they had and how much time it took. Teenagers are largely unsophisticated with respect to literature and you often have to prioritise teaching to the test rather than anything of actual substance.

Teaching at University would be what you're looking for, but ofc that's a rather competitive gig.

>>15470546
>>15470549
English academia nowadays is a complete nightmare. Literally thousands of international applications for every opening and good PhD's slaving in part-time adjunct positions for years. Many do PhD's now to get into good, academically-select High Schools.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Graduate-School-in-the/44846

>>15470574
>Many do PhD's now to get into good, academically-select High Schools.
I noticed that while I was working in comprehensive schools. There were a couple of Doctors of English working as teachers who would stay for at least a full year and then suddenly split to a grammar school after the Summer holidays. Smart plan, if you can stomach the year of teacher training followed by a year as an NQT in a shitty comp (and perhaps an extra year just to make sure you don't come across flighty).

>>15470604
Why can't they go straight into grammar schools? Are grammar schools significantly better than comprehensives?

>>15470610
Grammar schools are academically selective so, in theory, you're teaching the brightest and best. Teaching the brightest and best requires, in theory, the brightest and best teachers.If you're strong academically and you've shown you can teach well in a comp, then teaching at a grammar should be a breeze. In theory.

They're also really sought after roles so they have their pick of the cream of the crop whilst comps have to deal with the dregs. Some comp teachers like to cope by saying that "I don't want to teach in a grammar school anyway, it's boring and all the students are robots," before bursting into tears five minutes later because their Year 9 students are misbehaving and their Year 11s are too thick to grasp what a verb is.

>>15470574
That's not what I asked

>>15470546
It's really easy to get into by comparison and you don't have to spend half your time writing bullshit journal articles in order to justify your position.
Beyond that, teaching in a university is better in almost every possible way.

>>15470712
Pros: Better job security, better pay for most, no obligation to constantly research and publish to stay relevant, much easier to find a position

Cons: less prestige, less freedom to teach the books you want, more regular hours (could be a pro or con). Also unless you're teaching 17/18 year olds the students will be less intellectually mature.

>>15470740
cons: can't kick out the belligerent students nor can you legally fuck the cute ones.

The real /lit/ job is tutoring, it's the best of everything

>>15470758
>cons: can't kick out the belligerent students
Sure you can. Don't know about fucking them though

>>15470796
In secondary school? Not in my experience, unless they've done something illegal. Your options with belligerent students, beyond the usual tepid sanctions, is usually limited to hopscotching them to another school for a month or so and hope they're better behaved by the time they come back.

>>15470816
Oh I thought you meant kicking them out of the class

I teach English lit at a private catholic high school in a non English speaking country. The kids are pretty good and I get to read and discuss lit. On top of that, it's pretty well payed for what it is. It's not my end goal, but it's a pretty good gig. I get to create my own program (to an extent) so I don't have to read the same Orwelian/Shakesperian classics all the time.

I know I'm lucky to have this job, truth is I got a lucky break and was just nimble enough to pick it up on the fly. If I was in some shitty public school in the banlieues I'm sure I would have already quit. Some of those kids are fucking savages.

>>15470506
Gotta have advanced degrees. Do you know how many PhDs are having to go this route due to the lack of options on the job market? See below

>>15470477
This is a bit dramatic (especially coming from someone who has never had to do it, i bet), but it is a realistic concern: can you deal with the fact that largely your kids will not care about you let alone the material you want to teach them and they will have been conditioned by years of neglect, reactionary or negligent policy, and who knows what kind of personal background all making them little niglets you'll want to strangle on a daily basis, and, even the good ones will just be children whose shortcomings are manifest and require the utmost patience to correct.

I had multiple job offers from various magnet schools, public schools, etc. and turned them all down to go be a wagecuck simply because I knew I couldn't stand the public embarrassment of having to yell at a kid or, worse, have one of them call me a nigger in front of a class. Maybe I'll do it when I'm older but I am too young and have too fragile an ego to subject myself to that.

>>15470529
Inevitable in America.

>>15470546
You will not get a job in the university system. I can guarantee that with the statistical confidence to prove it. If you are not under this impression, you have not done enough practical research. You can be a smug idealistic asshole about it >>15470712 all you want or you can actually do the work and talk to any number of recent tenure-track achieving professors who did make it through the market, despite the odds, and how even then they were nearly driven to suicide (yes, I had multiple professors use this word directly when interviewing them about possibly going to grad school, think of how absurd a reality that would be for any other field you were asking about) from the years of hard work, little reward, vague prestige that doesn't actually substantiate itself in something people value, bureaucracy, politics, financial insecurity, etc. and again I cannot stress how these were tenure-track professors who went to Top 10 unis (which you most certainly will not) and spent years scraping by. Not a single professor who had engaged with the process within the last ten to fifteen years could recommend that I do it. At least lawyer bros will tell you how much money you can make or med bros will just gripe about hours and the idiocy of their patients.

>>15470930
>Maybe I'll do it when I'm older but I am too young and have too fragile an ego to subject myself to that.
I did it and let me tell you, you made the right choice. Those three years completely wrecked my already gutter level self esteem. The response that you called dramatic isn't dramatic at all.

>>15470957
Honestly that what stopped me the most. I hear the first five years are make-it-or-break-it in the most non-rewarding way. I have the utmost respect for the people that remain in the system and retire as educators, but I don't know how a person develops the gut for that shit. I've considered starting with little kids because at least they require explicitly babysitting and haven't been inundated to the meanness of the world yet.

>>15470972
Little kids can be meaner than you think and on top of that are fucking exhausting. If you're not really passionate about teaching, don't do it man, just keep wagecucking. The world doesn't need anymore half arsed teachers.

>>15470972
>>15470957
They're just kids, lads. Get in there and show em who the fucking boss is. That doesn't mean screaming and throwing threats around like a moron. That will get you nowhere.

It means demonstrating your position as master through competence. Don't try to explain everything to them like a university lecturer. Lead them to the waterhole, but let them drink that shit up themselves. If you do the first part right, they will respond and start putting the pieces together themselves, and your job will all of a sudden seem rewarding.

If you have a class (school/high school) which is giving you trouble, you MUST implement your own seating plan. On your first day, establish a set of rules (better if you let them choose the rules themselves) within the group and make each one agree to them, in writing if you want. NEVER back down on these rules after they have been agreed upon. Your dignity and their respect for you depends on it.

>>15470930
I didn't know things were so dire. Incidentally, I'm doing a PhD in something completely different but I have to make a choice between university/hs which is why I asked (my partner is a high school teacher so she's trying to bait me into it).
But chill dude

>>15471043
>thinking this shit actually works

>>15471043
delusional

>>15470465
Yeah, imagine all that underage pussy available

>>15470925
How did you get it? Are you a member of Opus Dei or something? Sounds like my dream job.

>>15470465
Unless it's an all girls school and you are handsome then it's all pointless and you will not enjoy it.

>>15471078
I just think it is unethical to not stress how fucked the stakes are every time this gets posted. English academia is as system that reflects the 2% at the expense of the 98%. The uni system as a whole needs to be held accountable.

>>15471043
Yeah no shit Sherlock there are literal studies showing best disciplinary measures in a classroom. It's a lot different when you're standing in front of thirty kids every hour seven times a time actually having to maintain the mental fortitude to do this. As for the academic anecdote that is a highly idealistic to something that is, ultimately, contingent on your district. When your boss tells you that X number of kids have to pass a state standardized exam or else the district will do some "restructuring," your pedagogical ideals go out the window real fast.

>>15471043
>Lead them to the waterhole, but let them drink that shit up themselves. If you do the first part right, they will respond and start putting the pieces together themselves,
Oh, the naivety

>>15470660
>But miss, wasn't the verb a band yonks ago

Currently a middle school teacher. It has perks and negatives. I enjoy thinking I may have had an impact on someone in a positive way. Negative is the pay obviously. Not to hard to get 12-13 year old kids to respect you when you are yourself and not some fucking weirdo, tyrant, or retard.

>>15471242
Have you ever had a student call you a "nigger" to uproarious laughter from his peers?

>>15471242
Sorry for the cumbrain question but are there any female students that are ... developed beyond their age?

>>15471302
not him but yes

>>15471123
>>15471139

If you are incapable of asserting yourself in front of a bunch of kids then just give up now. Go hand your CV's around to your local megasupersavings outlet store and just get on with your descent into meekness.
It sounds like you, especially, are not cut out for for this line of work, anon >>15471170. I can smell the fear through my screen, I can only imagine how your students must perceive you

>>15471341
Do SL or an internship and get back to us anon. In the mean time, stay edgy about public education over the internet! Really, we're all very impressed.

>>15471341
>>15471043
Nice LARP

>>15471266
>>15471170
Where the hell are you guys teaching? Sure if you get a shitty teaching qualification from a community college and go work in an inner city comp, you're gonna get called a nigger. What do you expect? That's why you do well and get an MA or PhD from a good uni, and go into a private school with their own salary decisions, with kids who actually give a damn. No sympathy at all for mediocre academics who end up in shitty low-income schools then complain about it.

>>15471157
I was doing English language workshops for adults. One of the students had a friend who had recently retired from the school and she gave me an email address and told me to use her as a reference. They started me off with little kids, then a high school teacher got fired for being creepy on a school trip to the UK and they needed someone to step in on short notice. Since it was an English lit class and I'm an anglophone, they asked me if i'd do it for the rest of the year. I did a good enough job that they offered me the contract for the next year. That was last year.
If you go to a non English speaking country, try to find schools that have 'International sections/options'. They only hire anglophones, and being an anglophone is more important than being a qualified teacher. Knowing someone always helps too, like with anything.

>>15471416
Yeah this post shows the extent of your naivete, either that or you're not American, in which case, good for you. I imagine you're a high schooler either oblivious to his peers because of his autism or an undergrad removed from the realities of the world entirely. In which case I guess it's good you're on here because you can have like-minded people tell you you're wrong before you go out and get fucked in the ass by an uncaring world.

>>15470465

Well, an English teacher.

I teach high school English. 12th grade. I love it. I think it depends on how you treat it. A lot of new English teachers tend to get egoistic, seeing themselves as imparters of wisdom, rather than facilitators of learning. Anybody who thinks like that is going to have a bad time. Teaching is heavily about motivating and getting people to care about your subject and its uses, not telling or lecturing at people.
I treat English as a set of skills to be mastered, in analysis, rhetoric, argument, speech, listening, etc. Every year with my seniors I do a capstone project where the assignment is simple but complex: using argument and research, make a change in the community around you.

>>15471891
You only teach 12th grade?

>>15471899
Five classes of 12th grade for the last 6 years. Before that I taught 9th grade for 2

>>15471471
I am neither the person who was first replying to you nor an American

>>15471891
Breath of fresh air in the thread.

>>15471891
If anyone's curious about my curriculum, here's what I usually do:
- Capstone project all year with a presentation of results at the end
- Argumentative unit on 2-3 topics in global discourse (this year I did homelessness, policing, and pandemic responses)
-media analysis unit where we focus on analyzing news, film, advertisements, songs, tv shows to see how they function to create meaning
-literature study on a specific topic in literature or an author study. This year we studied how literature, and by extension different cultures, grapple with death and dying
-narrative unit of creative nonfiction with two assignments: a this I believe essay as a development of personal philosophy, and an assignment where they have to tell the story of a student or staff member overcoming an obstacle in life.

>>15471919
Thanks. I only asked because it's quite strange for teachers to only teach one year in the UK unless they're either SLT (and usually teach sixth form) or not qualified in the subject they're teaching (and thus only get Year 7s or 8s). Over here, each teacher gets around five/six classes of different year groups. Your way sounds better to me, you're not constantly switching skill levels. Are your classes mixed ability or set?

>>15471990
Mixed ability. I work in an inner city, high poverty school. It's super important not to blame kids for the shitty life circumstances their parents bring them into.

My school has high turnover rate if teachers so they have more freedom to place us where we best fit. I admittedly only did okay with freshmen, and my AP and I both agreed that I would best fit with seniors, so I've been there for 6 years with good results

>>15471891
>using argument and research, make a change in the community around you.
What's an example of this? What sort of "change"?

>>15472034
It's open ended. I had some kids do simple shit like start a facebook page as a mental health support group, and I had other kids do internships based on career interests, and I had other kids partner with social workers to start funds to provide legal funds for people who couldn't afford lawyer fees

>>15470465
unless you're teaching at a private school hell fucking no

>>15472051
The fuck this shit got to do with English.

>>15470465
homeschooling your kids, and perhaps your nieces/nephews/cousins is /lit/ af

a lot of eurocountries ban it though. there are literally no rules in canada because they get your tax money anyway lmfao

>>15472077
Education deals a lot in project-based learning. The students had to write argument of proposals to various people and to me, research issues, and so forth in their community, communicate with various people, and ultimately implement their proposals. Look up english standards for your state or common core. They typically fall under 4 areas: reading, writing, speaking, and research.

>>15472140
Wow, burger education sounds retarded.

>>15471891
Yeah I used to teach sophomore writing and don't find discipline as bad as the rest of this thread says it is. Teenagers are just walking hormones. Don't try and throw your ego for them to mess around with and just be willing to talk straight with them. It's not easy but it's not really that complicated.

>>15472051
Oh shit this is rad. I'm stealing this for later classes.

>>15472172
Well it is but his enactment of it is pretty good. Part of modern composition instruction is getting students to develop critical thinking and communication ability. Giving them the space to think over means of using their ability to write through modern media is a great tactic for cognitive development. It also likely helps with college as they can build off for future projects.

>>15472077
Why teach books when you can just tell your students to a get an internship. They do it for free, you know?

>>15470465
It absolutely is. Think how many great authors were teachers first