/lit/ - Literature

>>15443804
It was in decline before, this probably will hasten it. Look at the increase in border restrictions and the calls from people in several countries to reshore and encourage manufacturing.

The global liberal order is falling apart.

God I hope so.

Can't happen soon enough desu. My worst fear is that the present order solidifies like this, a permanent upper class of neurotic drug addicts retreating into gated communities while the world around them turns into miles and miles of racially ambiguous dystopian slums.

Downloaded tiktok the other day just to see what the fuss is about, and it's obvious that the entire zoomer generation has already had their brains melted from porn. Humanity used to be something more than this.

Hollywood, New York, and London should be burned to the ground with no survivors for good measure.

Idk about you guys but I've got a bug out bag and hit list all ready to go. Patiently waiting for the inevitable civil war.

>>15443896
>My worst fear is that the present order solidifies like this

But it already did...

There's no turning back from all this.

>>15443804
If anything it got stronger

>>15443906
Everything ends. 400 years from now looks more like Cloud Atlas than the Culture.

>>15443896
That's what I'm concerned about though. Anyone who is actually paying attention will recognize that the West is in a critical state of decadence. Everything happening right now is evidence of that -- be it the transsexual cultism, decline in fertility, general atheism, passive subservience to corporate monopolies, hypersexual promiscuity, etc. The goal of the West is literally to turn us all into androgynous empty husks of flesh with no unity or structure down to the most basic units of humanity, including eliminating gender identity and marriage, because it makes it easier for us to be liquidized into capital.

My fear is that the West is never going to realize how far its fallen into liberal decay, meaning that outlets are going to open for extremism. We already saw this on a smaller scale with al-Qaeda and ISIS but the alienation could start spurring domestically too. We could potentially see a return to 20th century ideological massacre and warfare if we don't figure out a proper post-liberal solution. The alternatives people will come up with could be even more disastrous than our current state in society, and I don''t want to fucking live through all that.

>>15443949
The activation of the "antibodies" are the only shot the West has at breaking its freefall into degeneracy. The chances are admittedly quite slim, though.

>>15443906
Of course it has, but for how long?
Seems like it will take some massive natural disaster to provide upwards mobility for 95% of people. In the meantime, we are provided with as much drugs, porn, and endorphins as it takes to pacify.
Society has become liquefied, social contracts between individuals no longer exist but everything is regulated by it's relation to abstract monetary value. There is no master, no slave, we are all shop-keeps beholden to usury.
If anything COVID has just accelerated the atomization of society. If everyone is so small, a single individual, and "society" encompasses everything, what escape is there?

>>15443964
Explain clearly what you're trying to say.

>>15443949
> proper post-liberal solution
The problem of nihilism has no rational solution. There will be no end to post-modernity until reason is discarded, the philosopher-kings overthrown.

>>15443968
According to Plato, democracies inevitably degenerate into tyrannies. That is definitely in the cards, given growing state power.

>>15443949
It's the extremism that is bringing about the decline. Sexuality is such a non-issue

>>15443998
I was thinking about this the other day. It seems reasonable, given the growth of "cancel culture", racial tension, and general media hysteria, that the US will welcome a Tyrant with open arms if he restores some semblance of security, liberty, and privacy to the public sphere. Already saw how Trump catapulted into power for nothing more than ruthlessly mocking the ruling class.

An American Caligula, so to speak. But Plato also warned that it will only be a superficial improvement, and allow for massive abuses of power, corruption, and decadence. Already most Americans are more like sheep then men, universities are doing a very good job at raising a generation of subservient slaves and turning men into women. Is that the fate of man? To grovel in the dirt for the next couple hundred years?

The light of the west is flickering, maybe it's already gone out, I don't know. What can we do in these last days but head for the hills and wait.

>xe thinks the quarantine will end

cringe my yike!

>>15443964
>>15443949
take your meds

>>15444019
yea it's a total non-issue when fertility rates are in freefall, human relationships are becoming obsolete and manufactured, people only look at one another through a lense of self-serving sexual objectivity, men are more situated with pornography than speaking to women, and young women have no purpose other than attracting the male gaze on the internet

>>15444050
Do you actually believe this? Do you not think it is just what you are exposed to on the internet and is a reflection of your browsing habits rather than an accurate representation of average people? I notice this shit too, but I also notice the rest of the world where this is not a problem.

>>15444019
Modern sexuality deprives most proletariat men and a substantial portion of middle class men from even the modest dignity of love and family. At the same time, we're fed a constant hyper-sexual simulation of constant orgies and satiation of every perverse desire. Why would this not feed into extremism? Seems like half the men in my generation have either gone gay from lack of alternatives, started drifting into radical ideologies, or got on tinder and become a self-loathing misogynistic sex addict.

Men don't become extremists because they have happy lives. Sexuality is such a fundamental part of the human condition, it's funny when retards like you try to shut down any discussion on the matter.

>>15444041
Will be Based if it doesnt. Feels good being a guilt free neet

>>15444112
I'm not saying it doesn't lead to extremism, I'm saying extremism is the mark of decline rather than hookup culture. Please learn to read, 'retard'

>>15443804
How delusional are you? If anything the crisis exposed right wing leaders as the absolute morons they are. It boggles my mind how people on 4chan are still blinded by memes and contrarianism into supporting this kind of people.

>>15444125
it's a flu

>>15444085
>Do you not think it is just what you are exposed to on the internet and is a reflection of your browsing habits rather than an accurate representation of average people?
Not that poster, but it feels to me like 4channel is becoming increasingly tame vis-a-vis with popular culture. Platforms like netflix are increasingly normalizing things like transexuals, cuckholding, orgies, etc. About 30% of women at my university (saying this as a conventionally attractive man who talks frankly with women about their sex life) have used sugar-daddy apps to whore themselves out, and looking at the younger generation it's even worse. I can't even watch TV anymore because it's all so pornographic. Most normie males are hardcore misogynists that don't think twice to call women whores and sluts, and it seems like they are generally more successful sexually than the incels here fantasying about having a gf. This stuff isn't a problem for most people over 25, but the writing is obviously on the wall.

>>15444144
>This stuff isn't a problem for most people over 25

This is probably where the actual issue lies. Young people are dumb but they really don't make up the bulk of the population or its attitudes. Their ability to affect anything is small. They can't even convince governments to take environmentalism seriously.

>>15444125
>anon doesn't know what liberalism is

>>15444112
Not him, but it's probably worth mentioning that women are much less happier, too. Single moms, cat ladies, and women who fried their brains on social media are increasing by a large margin year by year. How many women sacrificed their would-have-been children and families for the sake of getting a cubicle all their own? How ridiculous for anyone to believe that the nurturing of human life is less fulfilling and/or deserving of respect than soulless drone work.

It's horrifying, the microscopic size "life" can be reduced to while still superficially functioning.

>>15444144
I can tell you as a sorta normie that the elimination of gender roles and hypersexuality is starting to have a very bad effect on younger generations. I’ve never seen men and women more divided than right now, lately it’s become extremely mainstream to just hate women and openly declare yourself a misogynist (things like OnlyFans have contributed to this), while most young girls do nothing but cry about men being “trash.” This is pretty much what most discourse among the youth is like lately. The genders are so deeply unsatisfied and resentful of one another and nobody has the capacity to make concessions or have dialogue about things like young girls prostituting themselves on the internet, which deeply makes men upset, and men being dispassionate to women, which upsets young girls. Things are only going to get worse from here.

>>15444123
>its the egg
>no it's the chicken
>no, the egg

>>15443896
Tiktok is kino. Just gotta cultivate your algorithm

>>15444240
tiktok has figured out my sexuality, insecurities, job, ethnicity, spoken languages, city all without me doing anything at all except watching videos. pretty kino

>>15444211
It's the tunnel-visioned perception of 'decline' that causes the real decline. Look at how people are talking in this thread when they describe the issues with weasel words or exaggeration because they know deep down they're not reporting on anything meaningful. You're trying to convince yourself that it is true so you feel justified taking the sledgehammer to it all.
>freefall
>obsolete
>manufactured
>only
>self-serving
>more
>no purpose
>most
>substantial portion
>fed
>constant
>hyper-
>simulation
>orgies
>perverse desire
>seems like
>half
>feels to me
>increasingly
>can't even
>all so
>generally
>much less
>fried their brains
>soulless drone work
>horrifying

>>15444184
Its sad, you know. I remember being on /r9k/ half a decade ago, and even as a young and impressionable teenager I thought these people were absolutely retarded and over the top.

Now /r9k/ is half young girls posting about their issues (basically the same thing robots used to complain about but from the other perspective), and their rampant misogyny and porn addiction has become normalized in the mainstream.

Fuck. This isn't the world I grew up in anymore. It used to be considered weird and perverted to have sex with random strangers on the internet. Now flirting with a girl at work is a faux-pas and the last date I went on ended with the girl asking if I'd ever be interested in gang-banging her with another man.

If we could enforce shariah, or kill the entire ruling class and replace it with a catholic theocratic state, I wouldn't hesitate. Seems like the west has lost it's soul, and all we're left with is an increasingly vapid circus of hedonism and debauchery.

>>15444260
I would kill you without state apparatus providing your protection.

Not even going to debate your points, I just hope you realize that. Keep defending the status quo because your life depends on it.

>>15444276
I don't defend the status quo. Extremism is the status quo

>>15444019
>Sexuality is such a non-issue
It's precisely because the petit bourgeois tenured profesor academics stopped giving a shit about actual tangible issues like the shrinking of the middle class, the complete undermining of the labor movement and the consequences of the sexual evolution to focus on mentally masturbating about their abstract genderqueer intersectionality post-racism "theories" that were in up to our necks in shit.

itt: incels rationalize their miserable lives by blaming women to cope with their own shortcomings.

The internet is here to stay, the shift in values is here to stay and you're a part of it as much as any other person regardless of their gender. Adapt or get fucked. Life has never been easy in the entire history of the world. You live in a first world country through a time of peace where most of the population has access to an unprecedented amount of knowledge and education.

What a pathetic sad bunch of edgy little shits. Get some fucking perspective.

>>15444300
Academia "theory" is nonsense but a) they don't read the material from which this theory derives, and b) they don't hold much sway over everyday affairs. It's literally an ivory tower and not connected to current affairs

>>15444309
I would kill you without state apparatus providing your protection.
Not even going to debate your points, I just hope you realize that. Keep defending the status quo because your life depends on it.

>>15444252
Tiktok knows I like teenaged ginger, emo girls. My fyp is perfect

>>15444240
Ok Humbert.

>>15444324
Think tanks and universities are literally set up to indoctrinate the masses into the current rightthink

>>15444356
And it's the free-thinking individuals like you who are out to uncover the real truth? This is just the same metaphysical argument that governs all of Western values since the time of the Greeks played out in real-life political melodrama. There is nothing special about modern life and tearing down one expression of that metaphysical conflict in favour of another is not going to solve that key issue.

>>15444328
but I can make life better for you. together we have a better chance of survival.

>>15443990

What irony. Reason must ultimately recognize that individual rationality can't transcend the irrational collective.

>>15444036

The battle for free flow of information on the internet will decide the fate of humanity. Al Gore funded the digitized manifestation of the Collective Unconscious and now it's open season for the powerful to manipulate it.

>Did COVID-19 seal the deal? Is the liberal world really in decline?
By 2021 or so we'll have forgotten about all of this, obviously the "liberal world" (read: the US and vassals) are in decline, however, nothing can be done to avert it. Enjoy your latinx slums with half the female population doing prostitution for fun kek

>>15444384
No but all I know is current society is not set up to my benefit, so I stand nothing to lose by destroying it. With luck, something will rise from the ashes that will be more favorable to my interests

I don't see why.
The "liberal order" isn't something that can just be weakened with a snap of the fingers. The reason for open trade, for open markets, for all of these things doesn't just disappear rapidly. Governments don't just say, "Ah, yes, a disease happened, so we can't continue to have open markets or open borders!"
Indeed, this hasn't happened in a single country. In most of Europe (if someone wants, I can give poll specifics), populist parties have become less popular, not more popular. During times of strife, people want competency at reinforcing the old order they remember before the current problem arrived, not a new or reactionary group trying to impose something new on them based on high-minded philosophical principles.

This is true of both sides. When people are clamoring to get back to what they know, telling them what they know is bad isn't usually very popular.

>>15444426
I don't believe for a second that you have a comprehensive overview of society, or that anyone does.

>>15444404
>Reason must ultimately recognize that individual rationality can't transcend the irrational collective.
It probably won't need to. There's an entire universe of chaos out there that doesn't give a shit about us. Our chances of survival in the long run are slim. It's a catch 22 - you need rationality to survive the environment but too much of it leads to nihilism.

>>15444125
>democratic politicians
>right-wing
haahahahhahahahaahhaahhahaha

>>15444440
The thing about covid is that it has blown the case on just how incompetent the puppet politicians are. Western governments were so focused on ensuring the international elite making profit at the expense of the masses that when an actual crisis hits they completely shit the bed. Government trusts has never been this low

>>15443990
>There will be no end to post-modernity until reason is discarded, the philosopher-kings overthrown.
I don't think post-Holocaust Western society could be described in any way as dominated by Reason.

>>15444474
>government trust has never been this low
That's a lie. Are you an American? America is the only country without a significant increase in popularity for the ruling party/leader during this crisis. Here's some polling data:
In Sweden, the populist Sweden Democrats have declined from 23.8% popularity to 19.5% according to Sifo, the Finns in Finland have declined from 23.3% to 20% according to Taloustutkimus, Alternative for Germany have declined from 14% to 10% according to Forschungsgruppe Wahlen, Vox in Spain has declined from 17.1% to 14.3% according to electoPanel, Lega in Italy has dropped from 31.9% to 29.7% according to Tecne, and in the Netherlands, the FvD has dropped from a projection of winning 16 seats to 10 according to Ipsos.

>>15444240

>What you think you just deserve to live in a society with social cohesion and and a sense of direction where women are not treated like prostitutes and men disposable cogs? you think you're just entitled to a world without constant arithmetically refined propaganda aimed at increasing insecurities and loneliness? and you think you just have a right to social mobility without spending half a decade living in abject poverty while going tens of thousands of dollars into debt?
>stop being such an entitled incel and pull yourself up by your bootstraps bucko

>>15444579
>abject poverty
There is no such thing as extreme poverty in wealthy nations. There is relative poverty, but that's something entirely different

>>15444535
Okay boomer

>>15444592
The homeless in San Francisco would love to disagree. At least the Brazilian underclass have a (corrugated metal) roof over their heads in the favelas

Divide et Impera

>>15444611
When I say "don't exist," I don't mean literally. I mean they are extremely rare. 500,000 people are homeless in the entire US. That is about 0.15% of people. That is little to nothing.

>>15444621
Fair point.

>>15443804
I unironically believe that Western civilization peaked with in 1999-2000 with Britney Spears.

>>15443804
If anything, it has set precedent for times to come. The entire world basically shut down all at once over the course of about a week. The ruling class has demonstrated that it has complete power over us, and we will happily kneel down and submit at the snap of their fingers.

>>15444592
So when I'm sharing a 500sq ft apartment with five other men and regularly go days without eating from lack of money, what do you call that? First world problems?

>>15443896
>Humanity used to be something more than this.
lmao

>>15444125
bruh why don't you figure out what we are actually talking about first

>>15444644
Not so much the snap of their fingers as a deadly pathogen with potential to kill millions though, isn't it?

>>15444647
So, that's obviously not abject poverty.
Abject poverty is living on less than $1.25 a day. Do you live on under that? If so, you are such a small minority it's nearly impossible to imagine how you can pretend to be a major problem. You can complain, sure, just don't use terms with specific definitions outside the context where they apply.

>>15443977
He's saying his genitals are rotting off his body due to lack of pussy and he idolizes school shooters. He just won't say it openly, even on 4chan.

>>15444125
Pretty great how modern politics can just draw a line in the sand and accuse any dissenters of being on the wrong 'team'. Really alleviates the stress of having to think for yourself.

>>15444685
What's there to think about?

>>15444656
The point is that virtually every country in concert shut themselves off from the rest of the world, ordered their citizens to stay in their homes, all more or less without question from their respective populations. It's not farfetched to see this as a potential regularity or to assume that any government power couldn't just make some bullshit up for whatever reason and conduct the same process with its citizenry at any point in the future because now they know that they can.

>>15444579
>young man who avoids talking to relatives thanksgiving posts on 4chan without a hint of irony about social cohesion

>>15444678
Huh, learn something new every day. Thanks anon, guess I was wrong.

>>15443804
Were the greeks republicans or democrats?

>>15444702
It's not entirely fair to point this out as though it was his own conscious doing.
That type of social dissolution that you're talking about was planted inside of him as a child. He never had a chance or a choice. It was a poison pill that we were all made to swallow. Living in 21st century western civ is like making a pact with the devil.

>>15444690
Nothing apparently, since people do not even leave their house anymore it's not like we have much control over the society we live in.
Generally though democracies require their citizens to take an active interest in affairs.

>>15444260
This anon is 100% right and you're all retarded. Thank you based anon.

>>15444426
>current society is not set up to my benefit, so I stand nothing to lose by destroying it
>women won't fuck me and I can't get a job, its definitely not my fault

Why are you guys such fucking losers?

>>15444747
He's not and both you faggots are probably symptoms of the same cancer that's blatantly decaying society. Hopefully you never succeed and live with regret just like most people in the future

>>15444785
He might be a loser but you completely failed to indicate a flaw in his reasoning. All you did was insult him because you're a brainlet with no arguments.
Stay triggered.

>>15444747
>>15444260

>>15444309
t. didnt read the thread

>>15444820

>gee, sure are a lot of angry single men who lack healthy relationships with the opposite sex, social mobility, and a sense of purpose in their life
>lots of them seem to be filling the void in their life by drifting into outright nihilism or violent extremist ideologies, we should probably do something about it
>I know, lets berate them and call them a bunch of worthless pussies
>problem solved
>now we can get back to ignoring the looming environmental holocaust and go about our business as usual
We're in for a wild time these next couple decades. Personally I can't wait

>>15444814
Alright, here we are with a struggle between changing society and changing ourselves. I don't believe that we need to pick a side, and for every issue we either change ourselves or change our circumstances. But to simply say "society isn't set up to my benefit" is just a cop out, because he isn't addressing the specific things that are hurt his existence. But c'mon, look at the site you're on, the dude just can't get laid, its the primary focus of this thread.

>>15444786
The cancer is dumb assholes like you who think that everything they experience is real and should be forced on other people

Why do all these threads just become incel baiting bullshit? The original is an interesting question: what effects will the Coronavirus have on the post-Soviet liberal order? Will it destroy it and create worldwide chaos/clamoring for a new order or will it lead to the reinforcement of liberal ideas? Yet, the thread has just become incels complaining about not having sex and being told to kill themselves by everyone else.
This board is so tiresome.

>>15444901
Well if they fucking killed themselves there wouldn't be an issue. If they had sex they'd still have shit to complain about

>>15444910
Yeah, but if they had sex, maybe they'd have on topic, interesting shit to complain about

>>15443804
Here's a superb little book I read last year, which denounces liberal democratic pursuits in foreign policy. In sum, these pursuits, including goals such as the spread of human rights, fostering an increasingly globalized economy, and strengthening international institutions, ignore the strength of both the nationalism in weaker states and the nimble realism of stronger states, resulting in a highly militarized but almost always stumbling U.S. foreign policy. Neocons and liberals (I'm shifting to the U.S. definition of political liberals here) alike fail to assimilate the lessons from these various failings and we are left dumping money into strategically unwise plans while at the same time losing influence. In my opinion, each new crisis exposes these faults more and more, leaving liberal democracy look like more of a joke each time.

>>15444942
But anon, liberalism wants people out of quarantine so markets can run.
Do you not know what liberalism means?
Are you an American?

>>15444901
Biological needs take priority. First we nut THEN we talk about politics and economics

>>15444901
Post cold war society is characterized by inceldom. The haves and have nots are now defined by sexual relationships, rather than property or wealth

>>15444958
Are you unable to navigate a word having more than one meaning?
Can you interpret based on context?
Do you feel smarter now?

>>15444980
No its not.

>>15444980
This is hilarious and obviously wrong when there are still millions of people who die from starvation and easily preventable diseases a year. Leave 4chan and enter the real world for a second.
>>15444976
>sex is a biological need
Sexual stimulation is a biological need. Sex itself is a luxury.

>>15444901
Interesting how you just ignore all the real posts and make this passive aggressive little dismissive comment, suck a cock retard.

>>15445001
What third world shit hole are you from where millions are dying from starvation and disease?

>>15444901
>The original is an interesting question: what effects will the Coronavirus have on the post-Soviet liberal order? Will it destroy it and create worldwide chaos/clamoring for a new order or will it lead to the reinforcement of liberal ideas?
Liberal ideas are dead in the water. Everything is governed by global capital now, and will remain so short of worldwide economic collapse and violent revolt.

I don't doubt that China will take the reigns in the near future, and they will back various neocolonial schemes to assert power in western countries. They already have extensive spy networks, investment in political parties, propaganda organizations, etc. set up. but in order to really take power they must destabilize society enough that their soulless communist oligarchy seems like a viable alternative. Already quality of life is measurably decreased for the younger generation in the west, after hundreds of years of seeing steady improvement and internalizing such things. Meanwhile the economy is become more and more competitive, requiring subservience to a pyramid scheme of usury and debt in order to have even a chance at being socially respected or having economic mobility.

So on one hand you've got the top half of society spending four years in a gated communities where everyone is rich and beautiful, sex comes easy, every weekend is a party, where everybody they meet a young professional, budding intellectual, future doctor, scientist, lawyer, etc. on the other hand you've got a lot of people working dead end minimum wage jobs, seeing all their wealthy friends leave town for the big city, being told that they're too stupid/uneducated to have a place in the future, and watching the communities they grew up gradually fall apart into drug addiction, crime, and general neglect.

Makes me wonder if apps like tiktok aren't designed to cater to social insecurities, racial tension, etc. that certainly seems to be the case from browsing the app. Possibly the reason these threads always become "incel baiting bullshit" is because social alienation doesn't manifest in exactly the academic pseudo-marxist manner you'd like it to. What do you think the catalyst driving alienated young men to risk violent revolt will be? What 'methodology' do you propose for analyzing current trends? You criticize a lot, but what have you offered to the conversation?

>>15445011
Jesus Christ. You know I can make multiple posts on the same thread, right?
This guy:
>>15444524
>>15444440
is me.

>>15444647
So you are retarded, even me who is not in a first world country am able not be in abject poverty by doing basically nothing. You deserve what you get you nigger.

>>15445022
I doubt that, after the poor have largely had to bear this pandemic working their shitty service jobs while the wealthy pull the drawbridges on their McMansions, that things will go back to normal afterwards. Really it depends on how bad the recession gets and stays.

>>15445018
>but what have you offered to the conversation?

convert to Islam, get rich and watch as everyone else suffers in the coming years. pretty much the only saving grace left

>>15445017
What do you mean? I'm not talking about the country I inhabit specifically, but just the world in general.
Malaria deaths:
https://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/
AIDS deaths (And don't you try to make this about sex, you cocksucker):
https://www.unaids.org/en/resources/fact-sheet
Starvation deaths:
https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/people-and-poverty/hunger-and-obesity/how-many-people-die-from-hunger-each-year
(not a very good source, but who cares)
>>15445018
Good post.
A few things:
1.
I think you're overestimating the rhetoric of the world exploding. The disease is not destroying America. It's killing some and slowing down economic growth, but it isn't giving China a particularly large amount that they don't already have. It will continue to be a reality that countries with a lot of capital will start to move towards China (which has a lot of labor) while countries with a lot of labor will want to work with the US (which has a lot of capital).
Urbanization is an interesting issue; there are some who suspect up to 80% of Americans will live in urban cities in the next few decades. That being said, there are many examples (Singapore being one) of thriving urban societies that don't have deep societal issues.
As for China, I think you are overly demonizing them. China is a plutocratic government, not a smart one. The intention of China is constantly economic growth both from a personal (their families own the economy) and political (the economy is the PRC's only source of legitimacy) perspective. I heavily doubt China is at all similar to the USSR in believing the global destruction of Capitalism is a major goal.
As for your argument on apps, it's just wrong. There's no statistic (and indeed many statistics contrary) saying poor people are more likely to use apps than the wealthy. It's just a form of getting pleasure, no different from reading a novel or watching a movie, except that it takes less effort and attention span.
>pseudo-marxist complaining
Not a pseudo-marxist, I don't believe in Capitalist alienation, I just find this question interesting. By your logic, every think tank in America is pseudo-marxist for covering this topic.
I don't believe violent revolution is coming, and you don't have to worry about me just coming on here to complain. I'm just disappointed with the state of the thread and board. You don't have to defend it as if it's your child.

>>15443804
I'm ready for National Socialism 2.0

>>15445072
Yeah, I get that. I just don't think the recession will be that bad. A good example is the Mexican situation with H1N1. They had to shut down their economy as well, but they didn't have a long-term recession. Unemployment, by the year after, was only 5.2%, which isn't that high. I think the reason is that, while a recession is caused by this stuff, the psychological effects of recession, which are one of the main reasons for long-term recessions, don't exist. People know when the disease is over; it's not an unexplained and confusing event like 2008. Investment goes back to where it was before the disease. This is also, of course, observable in the period after the Spanish Flu.

>>15445113
People dying of disease and starvation in third world shitholes dont define the rhe post coldwar social order. Supposing I was a highly engaged social worker and charity worker, I still wouldnt see mass disease and starvation unless I visited an irrelevant country.

>>15444125
congrats you're the biggest retard here

>>15445131
>unless I visited an irrelevant country
"Irrelevant countries" make a majority of the world's population. India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, and we're already up to 2 billion. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't a major part of the world economy the world order.

>>15445140
Third world countries are called thrid world specifically because they were outside of the cold war struggle. In post cold war countries which actually matter, inceldom is the distinguishing factor between haves and haves not

>>15445113
>I heavily doubt China is at all similar to the USSR in believing the global destruction of Capitalism is a major goal.
Never claimed that. China has always viewed itself as the "middle kingdom" between heaven and earth, basically the center of world affairs and culture where all other states are tributaries to China. They would like a return to this status quo, one where they are strong and secure from humiliation at western hands, and they are willing to take the lessons they learned during colonialism and apply them to naive western countries. For instance, the fentanyl crisis is largely caused by Chinese labs (branches of the Chinese government, legally speaking) exporting to Vancouver and Seattle.

>As for your argument on apps, it's just wrong. There's no statistic (and indeed many statistics contrary) saying poor people are more likely to use apps than the wealthy. It's just a form of getting pleasure, no different from reading a novel or watching a movie, except that it takes less effort and attention span.
You don't have a very good reading comprehension do you?

>>15444592
I guess the homeless and people who live in trailers and on reservations don't count?

In the US I think so. For the rest of the world it’s still undetermined I think. Particularly for the countries that are not already on their way out of the EU.
If you wanted to accelerate a failing ideology, how could you do better than stay at home orders, ording regular non-geriatric sick patients into nursing homes, ordering people what to wear (masks), and forcibly closing churches and gyms all for a .27% fatality rate at worst. Right down political lines.
This last chance bet to regain control failed miserably for them and it’s all because of their gangrenous system of ethics. Soon the lefty establishment will go into sepsis. Likely after the coming elections if they continue to spike the ball as hard as they are currently.

>>15445163
What do you mean "actually matter." Two of those countries have nuclear weapons. China's gdp per capita is about 10,000, far below the point where sex would be the main problem for most people. Do you mean "people who post on this board." Because that's the only way your argument makes sense.
Also, nearly every second world country is a shithole. Your argument would require us to say only first world countries, and even then, only oceania, the US and Canada, the EU (and not even all of that), and some Asian nations like Japan matter. What a crock of shit. Again, they still matter to the world economy because they provide most labor which is used for Western products.

>>15443906
>There's no turning back from all this.
That is what they want you to think, that is what they try to convince you of. Don't believe it. Why do you think they shit their pants every time someone draws something that vaguely looks like a swastikas on a wall? Why are they banning any youtube channel that challenges their ideas? They are scared shitless because they know that you CAN turn back the clock. And it is happening even as we speak.

>>15445185
How about you read the full thread before you post.

>>15445203
>Your argument would require
What is my argument?
Well clearly the question I responded to asked for why incel posting takes over all these threads. I explained why and you told me to "go outside" to see the millions dying of malaria
I dont live in an african shithole so clearly i'll never see this and clearly this isnt relevant to American social sturctures. Please stay on topic

>>15445177
>China wants to be the middle kingdom
I'm always skeptical about these arguments. Chinese leaders are a group of people who have largely been inundated with an ideology unrelated to that of the emperors of yore. The idea that members of the politburo still think of themselves as the centre of life and they are willing to put their cultural idea of importance over their personal and political interesting (making money) seems unlikely. It certainly isn't what they do in Africa, which has no basis in historical Chinese practices or attitudes and is largely just based on created a debt situation they can make money off of.
>fentanyl crisis
This seems to support my point. Plutocracy. They want to sell products cheaply to make money for themselves and legitimacy for their government.
>tik tok point
I was under the impression you were talking about Marxist alienation, which is supposed to mainly affect proletarians. If that wasn't what you were talking about, my point obviously doesn't apply.
>fentanyl crisis

>>15445217
That's a pretty specific argument
Are you autistic? I didn't literally mean "go outside." I meant "there are big problems that matter." My original statement was "the upper and lower classes of the world is not decided by sex." I assumed your response was that it is. Remember, we're talking about a global liberal order here, not just an American one. This isn't pol.

>>15444085
>nobody's having babies
>naww dude like human reproduction is all in your head, government and medical statistics are lies; here, look at this youtube channel of adorable kittens

>>15445238
Perhaps you should be more clear, because telling anyone to go outside to see millions of mosquito covered nigger babies is obviously absurd. The post coldwar liberal order only makes sense from an American centric perspective. We are the world's hegemonic power, and we defined the cold war as well as the current post cold war situation. I was unclear myself so I will correct my statement. This site is mainly populated by westerners and I assume most incel posters are american. All threads regarding social and economic problems become incel threads. Why? I think there is a correlation. I never said upper and middle class are decided by who does or does not have sex. But I have noticed that upper class incels are a lot more radical and angry than lower class chads. The haves and have nots is a social perception in a particular way. Personal worth seems to be predicated on sexual relationships to a much larger degree than personal wealth. I speak from experience. I have been in lowly trailer parks and in urban mansions. The perspective around sex seems universal. Our society is very sexualized and it seems like a key point in defining social worth, and political disocurse always devolves into some kind of sexual issue. Be it abortion, motherhood, or just "lol okay incel", the notion of sex seems like a baseline.

>>15445294
Okay, you might have a point about purely American discussion. Within America, a major factor in social status is sexual experience.
I would like to see more sociological data on that than your anecdotal experience (how people's perceptions of others are affect their perceptions, etc.) However, to say that America is the only country that matters is almost satirically wrong. To say that we must start all discussion with what is socially considered good and bad in America is also ridiculous. If we are talking about the global liberal order declining, it is generally assumed that we are talking about global trends.
>the implication that the most major sociological problem in America right now is incels
I don't think you asserted this, but every poll on the matter basically says that, even if every single person who could be categorized as an incel is one, they make up less than 0.5% of the population. To put that in perspective, millionaires make up 3-5% of the population and people in relative poverty and 12% in relative poverty. Even if the 0.5% are the socially lowest class, they are barely even a factor in the discussion of major American social ills.

>>15444240
faggot

>>15443804
liberalism has not failed, it has only evolved
the coronavirus has hastened its evolution

>>15443857
international finance will just engineer another war and Hungary and Poland will fall just like Germany

>>15445363
I guess i cant help but think my country is the center of the world. It is characteristically American to do so, and it is also not unfounded. I visitied Ireland a year ago and they're obsessed with us. I cant help but feel as if we set the global trend. Perhaps I am wrong in this. But my response assumed that the incel question is uniquely American.
>even if every single person who could be categorized as an incel is one, they make up less than 0.5% of the population.
I saw a stat that about 1/3rd of young men aged 18 to 30 has had no sexual partner in the past year. We could also look at birth rates, divorce rates, and other stats which all indicate against healthy male/female dynamics. Maybe economic disparity is cause of sexual disparity. But I will insist that sexual disparity, either as a cause or symptom, is a very big problem for the social cohesion of American society.

>>15445396
>I saw a stat that said 33% of Americans 18-30 haven't had sex in the past year
Yes, but not all of them are incels. A significant percentage say they could have sex if they wanted to but wouldn't because they didn't want to. The actual percentage of "want to have sex but don't" is much lower, at about 0.5%.
>sexual cohesion is a big problem for America
Didn't deny. I just don't think it's the main one and certainly not the main one for world politics.
I think you said something really interesting, though.
>I guess I can't help but think my country is the center of the world
I think this is the root of the issue. Not just your country but your perspective. Your perspective in seeing sexual relationships as a major problem in your life (as well as most incels thinking the same) means that you think it's the most important issue in society. My thinking that it isn't is largely due to my not really thinking much about my personal sexual relationships.
I think that's the answer. People are automatically predisposed to thinking that most others are facing the same issues they are.

>>15444123
Kys you fucking fool. You must be 15 years old. Seriously, kys.

>>15443804
"trust me guys this is really the end for neoliberalism!"

>>15445261
And here I was thinking overpopulation was causing a decline

>>15445542
Coward

>>15445380
Unironically true. America's fucked but the rest of the West still finds value in democracy and justice

>>15445758
We hope. It is falling into another of its Depressions, and the world can’t take much more of this pummeling. We really ought to figure out a better way

>>15443949
“You say it is the good cause that hallows even war? I say unto you: it is the good war that hallows any cause. "

>>15445766
Overpopulation is unironically only nigger problem right now

>>15444678
>citing the world bank
you need to go back

>>15445812
Your mum is only a nigger problem

>>15444125
Hello american brainlet.

>>15444309
CIA spotted

>>15444642
Explain in great detail desu.

>>15444440
>During times of strife, people want competency at reinforcing the old order they remember before the current problem arrived, not a new or reactionary group trying to impose something new on them based on high-minded philosophical principles.
What is
>french revolution
>russian revolution
>NatSocs taking power in Weimar Germany
Things just arent bad enough yet unfortunatly

>>15445425
>Yes, but not all of them are incels. A significant percentage say they could have sex if they wanted to but wouldn't because they didn't want to. The actual percentage of "want to have sex but don't" is much lower, at about 0.5%.
You can't genuinely be this dishonest.
How old are you? Probably you're viewing a generational crisis from the perspective of someone who grew up in entirely different circumstances.

>>15443804
I don’t have much hope, they just stopped the lockdown here and people got so excited to consume more and get back what they missed
It’s over

>>15446066
This

My state looks like everything is normal again. People are eating out and going to outdoor malls as if it were any other day - the only giveaway is the masks but the paranoia is definitely dissipating.

>>15446071
I can’t help it to wish for the virus to mutate and become more virulent so that people truly see that hyper capitalism and globalism will be our graves

>>15445018
>Makes me wonder if apps like tiktok aren't designed to cater to social insecurities, racial tension, etc. that certainly seems to be the case from browsing the app
Of course apps like that are designed that way. The greatest hooks for users of social media are outrage and insecurity.

>>15444874
Me2 m8

>>15446071
The virus is going to have an explosive second wave. People somehow think it's over when there are hundreds of times the active cases that initiated the first wave and no one is trying to prevent the spread anymore.

>>15443804
no, now we enter into a period wherein increasingly draconian legal systems and destructive financial strategies are deployed to keep the market limping along. expect the capital punishment for mortgage defaults eventually. anarcho-tyranny is here!

>>15443896
saying shit like "i don't know about you guys" guarantees you won't survive a civil war. you need to be building your mannerbund yesterday, not buying survivalist gewgaws

>>15444874
Bullying builds character

>>15444482
reason maybe not but rationality absolutely. an economic system justified by rationality, the rationality of the free market, the rationality of the humanitarian military interventions. even the MAD policy of the cold war was following a rigorous logic. the problem is that rationality is fucking insane

>>15446409
>just wait two waves bro
has anyone been as thoroughly BTFO ever as happooners did this year

>>15446499
It isn't about happenings, it's quite clear people can just ignore this and in carrying on normally only the old and inform will die. It's quite misinformed though to pretend this is over in strictly epidemiological terms.

>>15444482
Husserl didn't think so before the war either

>>15446499
>has anyone been as thoroughly BTFO
Yes, businesses and people who like leaving their house.

>>15446603
>people who like leaving their house.
You can leave your house if you want. Plenty of people do if they really want to. There is zero significant consequences if any.

>>15444117
bugman spotted

seal the deal these fucking gains, get in here and get fit
https://discord.gg/eHPyAc3

>>15443804
I hope so, but the older I get the more I think Maggie was right. There may be nationalist or socialist revolutions against the new world order, but in the grand arc of history these are just minor setbacks. International capital is stronger now then it has been at any time since 1914. There's nothing late stage about it, we're only just exiting proto-capitalism. The tools used from here on out will only grow more effective.

>>15444125
Maybe try to figure out what the conversation is about before throwing your opinion in there.

>>15444309
This anons brain has been fried by memes, very sad.

>>15444927
Mearsheimer is excellent, his speech in Australia last year was phenomenal.

The west died the moment it tried to solve the problem of over production with marketing and advertising
That was really what killed us as a civilization. This was started in the early 20th century following fordism. Every single thing that has happened after this has been a direct consequence of it
We are too attached to these ideas to be able to let them go, a new civilization will have to take over
The question is in a globalized market, who hasn't been contaminated?

>>15443896
>and it's obvious that the entire zoomer generation has already had their brains melted
friendly reminder that basically every single generation in the past 300+ years have thought this about the younger generation

>>15446801
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsFwKzYI5_4

is it in this video?

>>15444262

>>15446839
Yes also, in debate with one of AU's major strategists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRlt1vbnXhQ

>>15445089
Islam will get pozzed faster than Christianity has

>>15446828
And they were all correct

>>15446660
The future is clearly corporations replacing countries as governmental structures grow increasingly corrupt and impotent.

>>15447153
imagine saying this after watching corporations needing to get bailed up en masse by the tax payer twice in a little over a decade

>>15446510
i remember february. "80,000 deaths a day in the USA alone by the end of april!" they said. meanwhile sweden didn't even shut down

>>15447187
Sweden yes, but unironically.

>>15444874
Just imagine how many less there'd be if they had been bullied early and often.

>>15444725
>I-it's not my fault!

>>15443909

Lol no, , every constituency around the world is getting further right or further left depending on history and location, liberalism is the leper of this age, everyone is trying to distance from it.

>>15447177
That's just because the tax money isn't still going to them directly

>>15443804
Of course not
It's clickbait clickbait clickbait to keep your fly-level attention span constantly distracted

>>15446828
Yes, and? 300 years ago is when it all went wrong anyways

>>15446828
this is not an argument

>>15444125
these politicians are liberals you inbred american

>>15444036
>The light of the west is flickering
I blame America and the leaders of Europe who cuck to them. America also uses LGBTQ and liberal agendas for imperial purposes. It's kind of funny actually.

>>15444262
>replace it with a catholic theocratic state
Why not create a new religion or adopt a better old?

ITT. Amerifats who don't know what "liberalism" is

>>15445380
>liberalism has not failed, it has only evolved
the coronavirus has hastened its evolution
how?

>>15443804
this isn't even remotely literature, why wouldn't you post about this on /pol/ or something?

Yes, internationalist monetarian liberalism was always doomed to fail. It created this just-in-time system that totally collapsed once it hit a major hurdle. China and Russia will come out on top because they are more self-sufficient while western liberals consider protectionism and self-sufficiency to be fascist.

COVID-19 is 83% bullshit
Stay woke

>>15444125
Trump is the only one that mostly stray away from liberalism. Bolsonaro literally has liberalism as one of his main guidelines.

>>15445973
Those were due to failures in the governments leading them rather than just general natural disasters. When the reason for the failure isn't the government's (or at least doesn't seem like the government's), people rarely revolt.

>>15447187
No one ever predicted 80000 deaths A DAY

>>15443804
If liberalism failed, you wouldnt get to live out whatever mad max monarchist far right cowboy fantasy that hollywood has convinced you is attainable, you'd get China.

>>15450013
Wow so deep. Thank you for the prophecy, Mr. Shlomo.

>>15450013
No shit, retard.

>>15450013
This. Do you think the police state that the capitalist elites built would just disappear? They'll just toss out whatever liberty is left in order to keep the profits going. It won't be le epic trad fascism or green socialism, it would be totalitarian surveillance capitalism without any illusion of freedom like liberalism gives you.

between celebrities singing about covid, tiktok videos by nurses and viral hits about WASHING YOUR FUCKING HANDS and the hamstering I think liberalism is stronger than ever through global 'solidarity'

>>15449951
Catch it.

>>15450013

>you'd get China.

You mean the country who grew its economy by 8017% since the 80's and has "the prosperity and betterment of the han race" at its official party line? Sign me the fuck up

based

>>15443896
>>15443949
People have been decrying the state of the youth since the time of Confucius. Everyone thinks the next generation is the final nail in the coffin for their civilization.
You're just getting old. Get over yourselves.

Thing about a natural crisis is it eventually stops. We're gonna see a new scramble for Africa to regain lost profits and that's gonna spur a USSR 2 around Chinese-funded Ethiopia that's gonna bring us into a new nuclear cold war.

>>15443804
Trump 2020! He will keel liberals!

>>15451589
People were complaining about their health for all the history. We still have people now, so guess these complains were not serious.

>>15446486
>>15447233
Yes, there would be less bullies too

>>15443804
You dumb white incel cucks are like a blind boxer, you fighting nothing really hard. It's your own vanity, stupidity, greed and general lack of true morals. Not the kind of morals you learn from religious bs, I mean actual human morals that separate us from animals.

I don't think it sealed the deal, however, if more liberal countries actually implemented liberal policies and followed the rules we wouldn't be in this mess.

>>15451646
Trump is a liberal

>>15445384
Hungary and Poland are already controlled, Orban was groomed by Finklestein and Poland's right wing leadership is controlled by the usual suspects. The key to liberalism's demise will probably be another country. Luckily, the US is becoming so incoherent that it probably can't launch a war against whoever it is. Covid-19 has certainly hastened all this, but it won't be the final nail.

Bump

>>15443804
Why would you think that? It’s an intensification of “liberal” control. Quite possibly the gayest pandemic of all time

>>15443896
>from porn
No, that's not from porn. Porn in the grand scheme is inconsequential compared to the smartphones and technology in general fucking over our brains. We're running an experiment on these kids. Why do you think the big tech aristocracy that proliferated these devices and apps don't let their kids use them? They know what they're doing to us.

>>15443804
We live in a Golden Age.

>>15443896
>Hollywood, New York, and London should be burned to the ground with no survivors for good measure.
agreed

>>15444125
>this triggers the /pol/ tourist

>>15444981
>I-it's not my fault I used a word to mean its complete opposite meaning

>>15452954
Of material consumption, but not of spirit. We live in comfortable times, yet every word that comes out of people's mouths shows a deadening of hope for the future. Our culture shows and even accepts as normal a loss of trust and a passive cynicism. If we were to look back at people from the past, we'd see that even with their troubles they had a kind of optimism about themselves and the future that seems altogether rare today.

>>15444262
/r9k/ was also more authentically depressing back then. /r9k/ 10 years ago, though, was even more radically different, as I distinctly remember there was no complaining about women as there was now. The board drifted into a caricature of itself as time went on. If I recall correctly, the /adv/ board was a response to what /r9k/ became.

>>15453141
It's always been really weird to me that /r9k/, for some reason, attracted people to complain about their dating woes.

Out of all the boards, that one basically became that subject-matter from almost the get-go.

>>15452954
>>15452997
*Gilded*
My bad

>>15443804
houellebecq was right: it'll be just more of the same only worse

>>15453308
I do not forgive you

>>15444168
>don't make up the bulk of the population or its attitudes
Give it 5 years.