/lit/ - Literature

SPOILER goethe died after writing this stuff

Finished part 2 just yesterday, what's your idea about the ending?

I read it recently anon, I didn't fall madly in love with either part but probably in part because of translation. I think the best stuff in Part 1 is the university satire and Gretchen's scenes, particularly where Valentine dies cursing her.

Part 2 is good but you'll want an edition with copious notes, I read the Norton Critical Edition and it was hard work still, a lot of references not just to mythology but obscure parts of it, and now-obscure aspects of European and German culture. The "Helen" section is fantastic but it's much more "niche" than Part 1. And too much fucking stuff about coins.

I would love to hear from someone with more knowledge of Goethe on here

>>15423655
Part 1 I mean

>>15423655
The ending seemed pretty grim to me, Faust is only rescued at the last moment and there's a lot to suggest it's ironic. The industrialisation he's set in motion isn't going to stop. I thought Gretchen turning into Beatrice (by implication) and rescuing Faust was a bit trite, but that's just Goethe and his eternal feminine nonsense

>>15423620
One of the best works of literature ever written.
On the level of greek drama and Cervantes.

>>15423662
>>15423662
Well it was kind of a downer, but it was also somewhat beautiful in that Faust managed to somewhat redeem himself in his love for Gretchen, and how Gretchen regained some sanity when seeing him and choosing to be punsihed for her crimes. I also liked how God forgave her at the very end, and Satan/Mephisto loses in a way.
So yeah, overall I liked it alot even tho all the symbolism and satire and meta confused me alot, and I've heard part two has even more of it

>>15423677
>and there's a lot to suggest it's ironic
How so? That sounds awfully cynical

>>15423620
It's a classic work and really a stand alone rather than a successor to part 1. More about the symbolism between ancient and modern times.

I'll tell you why I read it since I heard the same criticism as you: you'll never have a better opportunity to read it than after part 1. As another anon said, takes more time to read and understand references since he references Hellenistic Greece alot throughout along with many other sources. Don't go into it expecting a coherent story and plot but rather look for the deeper meaning.

Side note: do NOT read the shitty Penguin edition in your pic OP. No footnotes, translation is not the worst but pretty bad. Don't have a recommendation for a better version. I've heard good things about Oxford for both, someone mentioned Norton which you can't really go wrong with. Do some research.

>>15423699
Hi anon, sorry I was replying to your original post which said part 2, I missed your correction. The ending of part 1 is a lot more hopeful in tone I think, despite part 2 having an ostensibly happy ending. I'd definitely give part 2 a go if you've engaged properly with part 1, but as the previous poster said it is very much standalone. It doesn't really follow traditional dramatic logic (Faust and Mephisto fly about here and there without much justification) but it's interesting

>>15423740
>>15423767
I see, thanks anons!

>but rather look for the deeper meaning
what is that?

>>15423834
Part 1 is meant to be taken (at least to a point) as a drama played pretty straight. Part 2 is a ridiculous whirlwind of scenes and settings from throughout history, from the Hellenic age of heroes to Medieval and Enlightenment. Since it can't be taken as literally there's a lot of allegory and symbolism you have to unpack for yourself. How much you enjoy doing that is how much you'll enjoy it. It's very rich but I found it quite dry at times, like an intellectual exercise

>>15423859
Got it

any anons here have any translations (with footnotes) to recommend?

>>15423875
Just the Norton Critical Edition really, translation is ok but the notes are excellent, including short essays on every scene

>>15423620
Part 2 is better. Classical Walpurgisnacht is absolute kino.

>>15423620
You mean the Gretchen stuff? Because if you do, yeah that's pretty much the end of it and isn't really mentioned again or seem to have narrative importance in Part 2, so it isn't really a cliffhanger.

In Part 2 Faust simps after Helen, becomes an advisor for the Emperor and creates paper money, and goes to a Walpurgis night with Satan and an homunculus where they meet characters from Greek myth. Some crazy shit.

>Gayeth

>>15423620
part 2 is self insert fan fiction

Mephisto has nice sense of humor

Part 2 is like Ulysses by Joyce in the way that Part 1 is like a normal play like Hamlet or Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. It's brilliant but very different.