/lit/ - Literature

k, he is just a sack of meat anyway

>>15414339
Why would you bring your kid into this meat thrasher called life, if you love your kid?

>>15414339
Actually the part where child sacrifices are rejected which I guess makes it progressive.

>the sacrifice of Isaac is a literary device
>the sacrifice of Isaac was a foreshadowing of the divine murder
>the sacrifice of Isaac is a cultural myth to explain the reason from moving from human sacrifice to animal sacrifice

Isaac wasn't Abraham's first born shitbrains

>>15414339
>lmao imma kill a bunch of egyptian infants cause their leader is being a faggot
>why yes I am omnipotent and could just teleport you out of Egypt why did you ask?

>>15414339
Anyone who has taken an oath of absolute fealty to their lord would do such a thing. And that was the point of the story.

>>15414339
>talking snakes

>>15414339
Isn't it amazing how God is real chatty for 4 some thousand years then after Jesus died he just shuts the fuck up? Crazy

>dude just cut your foreskin off to prove your love to me

>>15414369
>being an antinatalist

https://www.abolitionist.com/anti-natalism.html

> In an era of biotechnology and unnatural selection, an alternative to anti-natalism is the world-wide adoption of genetically preprogrammed well-being. For there needn't be selection pressure against gradients of lifelong adaptive bliss - i.e. a radical recalibration of the hedonic treadmill. The only way to eradicate the biological substrates of unpleasantness - and thereby prevent the harm of Darwinian existence - is not vainly to champion life's eradication, but instead to ensure that sentient life is inherently blissful. More specifically, the impending reproductive revolution of designer babies is likely to witness intense selection pressure against the harmfulness-promoting adaptations that increased the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment of adaptation. If we use biotechnology wisely, then gradients of genetically preprogrammed well-being can make all sentient life subjectively rewarding - indeed wonderful beyond the human imagination. So in common with "positive" utilitarians, the "negative" utilitarian would do better to argue for genetically preprogrammed superhappiness.

Isaac was a lot more a child of God than of Abraham, and it does make intuitive sense to demand a sacrifice of what is most dear to you. It's the most miraculous feat of faith by a human man in the Christian tradition, I don't understand how people project so many negative qualities onto it.

Things must've been tense in that house after they walked back home.

>>15414652
ah never mind it’s cool then

>>15414884
>dude I don’t get it why do people get so worked up over killing their own kids???
christoids are hopeless

>>15414660
didnt yaldabaoth literally make the pharaoh do it?
I seem to recall the pharaoh having his agency removed in order to get more people killed

>>15415601
>And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.
...
>And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
...
>But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go
...
>But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go. And Pharaoh said unto him, Get thee from me, take heed to thyself, see my face no more; for in that day thou seest my face thou shalt die.
...
>And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

This evil little arabic demon literally would NOT LET the pharaoh avert death and destruction
Christians worship this? WTF?

>>15415658
OT explicitly states that goyim are cattle and only hebrews are important to God. The stunt with Pharaoh was just a test for Moses to strengthen his resolve.

>>15414822
>What is the Koran

>What is people communicating with God every day.

Just because the satanic psychiatric establishment has reared its head doesn't mean you need to go nuts over the fact that God can't be communicating with you still. God speaks to me often.

>>15415600
I could rebut but you're not imparting criticism from a perspective of honestly. Abraham isn't called the the father of faith for no reason, and that's with impartiality to whether you personally are a Christian or not.

>>15414822
>>15415848
Yeah plus, there's like that prophet existing today...

>>15415813
the fact that this being is omnipotent but prefers to socially engineer genocides and animosity is proof it simply enjoys watching genuine suffering

>>15415854
>I c-could refute you but I don’t w-want to
biggest cope since joseph my dude

>>15415865
They deserved it. He enjoys the suffering of infidels. They don't accept his divine truth.

>>15414339
you've already sentenced your child to death just by benefit of birthing him

>>15415888
he enjoys suffering of jews too, he just enjoys suffering in itself

>>15415879
Yes, that's what I exactly said. Did you fill out a captcha just to repeat what I told you?

>wojak posting tripfag is a christcuck

>>15415908
Sure, if the Jews are infidels.

(like many Jews today)

>>15415943
i think the book of job debunks that claim

>>15415947
The book of Job makes no claims in regards to today, or even Jewish people.

What the fuck are you on about?

>>15415947
>>15415955
Oh are you stating that God does not enjoy suffering? In Job, God was chastising Job for his unbelief, as were his friends. I talked to someone similar last night and completely shut them the fuck up when I posted the actual text of Job.

Please understand, Job was incorrect when he doubted his faith in the Lord, and that's why the tale of Leviathan and Behemoth was shown him: as a proof.

A proof of his existence.

>>15415955
>yahweh makes a pious good little jew suffer
>wtf are you on about?
are you retarded?

>>15414339
This practice doesn't seem too odd: many religions from the past required human sacrifices to satisfy the bloodlust of their gods.

>>15415975
Satan did that, not God.

>>15415973
>In Job, God was chastising Job for his unbelief, as were his friends. I talked to someone similar last night and completely shut them the fuck up when I posted the actual text of Job.
>Please understand, Job was incorrect when he doubted his faith in the Lord, and that's why the tale of Leviathan and Behemoth was shown him: as a proof.

dumb take, elihu is validated by god in stating that you shouldnt try to understand god and take your suffering like a good little hylic

>>15415984
To give up life for the service of their Lord, that's what many do today with their own lives.

In this instance, God asked for the son of this man though. This is not a tale of ritualistic sacrifice, but one of loyalty, devotion, and faith. Much like Job.

>>15415998
Okay, well I'm not even sure what your position is. You seem extremely adamant about stating that Job is suffering for some reason. Do you hate the character Job or something? Is there some reason why you need Job to suffer? There may have been a chance that while his wife and friends were mourning over him he wasn't suffering at all, until he lost his faith in God.

>>15414857
1st world white mansplaining

>>15415813
Woah gentile you need to cool it with the anti-Semitic

>>15414339
Those were different times back then, lots of blood, mass executions and violence were usual. God has changed since then, he's more kind and humane now.

>>15416001
I counter with the ritualistic killing via stonings. This is mandated by God not Satan.

>>15416014
>You seem extremely adamant about stating that Job is suffering for some reason. Do you hate the character Job or something?
Job is suffering so much he wishes he were never born at one point

>Is there some reason why you need Job to suffer?
you need to ask your lord yaldabaoth for that answer

>There may have been a chance that while his wife and friends were mourning over him he wasn't suffering at all, until he lost his faith in God
literally yaldabaoth induced schizo talk, you make no sense

>>15414844
I want that man arrested
Do your thing, hacker 4chan

>>15416050
Cool it with the antisemitic remarks

>>15415985
>the christcuck cries out with dualistic eisegesis as he affirms monotheism

>>15416039
>Job is suffering so much he wishes he were never born at one point
That's during his rant you moron. Re-read the book of Job. He maintains his faith in God while those around him doubt in God.

>>15416032
Sure, those people are sinners. The death penalty was legal until just recently. Are you against killing sinners/evildoers? That's pretty evil itself. I'm glad America has brought back this policy recently in some states.

>>15416154
>Are you against killing sinners/evildoers? That's pretty evil itself.
you should tell Jesus that

>>15416154
>That's during his rant you moron. Re-read the book of Job. He maintains his faith in God while those around him doubt in God.
Yes that also happens, no that doesn't not change what I said. Are you literally schizo? Do you think an orange in my hand disproves an apple on the table?

>>15416170
does not* dumb autocorrect

>>15414857
Is this suppossed to be an argument against anti natalism??

If yes it sucks hard

>>15416166
He wasn't evil.

>>15416170
When Job lapses in judgment, THEN the dialogue begins. Really the tale of Job is about the ONE DAY out of many described that he finally doubts God's existence. Obviously then all of his friends and God himself comes down to show him proof of his existence, God told him about Behemoth and Leviathan, a very strong proof for his existence, and he believes.

>>15416198
>When Job lapses in judgment, THEN the dialogue begins. Really the tale of Job is about the ONE DAY out of many described that he finally doubts God's existence. Obviously then all of his friends and God himself comes down to show him proof of his existence, God told him about Behemoth and Leviathan, a very strong proof for his existence, and he believes.
Are you still learning English? What is wrong with your brain?
Jobs friends are question Job about whether or not he ever did anything wrong to deserve it. Elihu is the one who chastises all of them for trying to explain or understand god, which god AFFIRMS. Did you read some shitty spark notes? There is something deeply wrong with you.

>>15416026
>God has changed
Blasphemer.

>Abrahamism is inherently evil

Shocking

>>15416198
>He wasn't evil.
christlarpers literally can’t read, what a surprise

>>15414339
nothing wrong... when you got a lot of children.
in Bolivia still is a thing, but is for the devil god called "el tío" (the uncle) of the mountain in exchange of more silver, ore or whatever the miners exploit from it.
this makes urban catholic and protestant shitters seethe hard

putting that aside, they're (the miners) extremely Catholics outside of the mine, but inside, they worship "el tío" and is well-know what kind of offers they do: alcohol, coca, cigars, or sacrifice llamas; but when the times are bad or can't find minerals, they do that kind of sacrifices,

Abraham sacrifices him in the original story. Why do you think the last line is about abraham leaving the mountain without isaac?

>>15416222
All of his friends are very believing. Arguing is not the method to gain more faith, friend, although I will help you this time.

>1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite replied: 2 “Would a wise person answer with empty notions or fill their belly with the hot east wind? 3 Would they argue with useless words, with speeches that have no value? 4 But you even undermine piety and hinder devotion to God. 5 Your sin prompts your mouth; you adopt the tongue of the crafty.

As you can see, the rest of the book is like this. Everyone is simply trying to get him to believe. But very deftly like many of the so-called 'intelligent' atheists on here, he dodges their doubts and makes them understand that even through his suffering he still believes, and yet does not deserve the punishment he has received throughout his life.

The irony is, if you cannot see that Job is completely wrong with this line of logic, you are as deluded and troublesome as Eliphaz for accepting Job's criticism. You would will that Sisyphus himself would stop pushing the boulder up the mountain and think him wicked for not doing so.

Everything we do, we do for the service of the Lord, and in the end if you did not live your life in the service of the Lord, or even if you did, and you did not like what you've received, then God will make sure that you are punished when you die. If Satan assails you, simply have faith, and you will persist. This is the moral of Job.

Not that God unjustly punishes, or that there is anything wrong with someone's brain.

>>15416236
>He thinks Jesus is evil.

I'm a Muslim, almost every religion maintains that Christ preached well.

>>15415848
>What is people communicating with God every day.
Schizos
Nobody can prophecy the future thse days

>>15415865
It shows that he is redpilled, and you are not based.

>>15416236
the jewish god was evil, I can't find "why" they sell us his son like he wasn't or do something wrong against the mankind.

>>15416284
>As you can see, the rest of the book is like this. Everyone is simply trying to get him to believe
Job never stopped believing you illiterate larper

>The irony is, if you cannot see that Job is completely wrong with this line of logic, you are as deluded and troublesome as Eliphaz for accepting Job's criticism.
god rebukes everyone but Elihu, showing that Elihu is correct that god likes everyone to suffer, pious and nonpious alike

>Everything we do, we do for the service of the Lord
everything YOU do is in service of yaldabaoth

>Not that God unjustly punishes
Yaldabaoth is only unjust.
And here you are making excuses for worshipping an evil false god

>>15416314
You are just being spiteful.

>>15416292
There is a prophet in modern times, or a couple who are prophesying. Obviously the methodology here is that prophets will always exist as reality does. But only in relation to society in general.

Only does someone really qualify as a prophet if he believes in God for the benefit of society or all others, at the cost of his life. He gives up his life for the service of God. Or a couple do, and this spreads and so forth.

The so-called false prophets are the cult leaders obsessed with sex and drugs that have been propagated and sent out by the media, not the various miracle workers that have existed between Christ's time and now.

You are living in a sinful age.

>>15416349
>You are just being spiteful
quit pretending to read books pseud and maybe you wont get called out on it
although i suppose pretending to read the bible makes it easier for you to keep the veil over your eyes you fucking satan worshiping hylic

>>15416287
>you: actually stoning sinners to death is based
>me: you should tell jesus [who was explicitly against doing so] that
I have no idea how a person could be low IQ enough to think I was trying to imply that Jesus was evil
>I’m a Muslim
never mind, now I get it

>>15416314
Elihu was added later by bluepilled scribes. Hes not part of the original work

can I interest you in faith in the blind idiot god Azatoth?

>>15416376
Everyone knows you lost here. You lost because you lost your cool, buddy.

JBP unironcally had a good take on this passage

>>15416424
>i dont accept this presumed interpolation
>but i do accept the gospel of matthew and luke, and one of the halves of genesis, some of deuteronomy, half the pauline epistles
are you some build-a-bible christian?

>>15416446
unless it was a regurgitation of kierkegaard i doubt it

>>15414822
Isn't funny how bumfuck semitic tribes had religion that ended up the foundation of western civilization? Surely, there's no greater, underlying reason. They just got lucky!

>>15416455
Im not the christian guy youve been arguing with I'm just a Jobfag who likes posting in Job threads

>>15416487
There's really very little connection between Judaism as it was practised in Ancient Israel and modern Christianity. And neither of them can really be called the foundation of western civilisation.

>>15416487
Why are you surprised that babylonian and assyrian myths survive to today? They were major world empires and literate

>>15416684
If it wasn't for Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, we'd still be in the dark ages

>>15416923
The Dark Ages started with Christianity taking root in Europe. And as the influence of the church waned, the problems of the Dark Ages faded away. The church wasn't the sole cause of the Dark Ages, of course, but it was a major contributing factor.

>>15416946
Then Islam and Judaism studied in the dark; practicing philosophy, art, medicine, theology, math. Aristotle and many of the ancient Greeks would've been lost if wasn't for the translations from the Muslims

>>15416487
>They just got lucky!
Yes.

>>15416966
>Aristotle and many of the ancient Greeks would've been lost
because of Christians destroying their writings?

>>15414339
i mean if god literally talked to you wtf u gonna do. it's like disagreeing with a flood--ur gonna get swept either way

>>15416977
>Why, yes I believe in luck and chance. My life is a series of chemical reactions. Btw, what sign are you. I'm a libra. I also use reddít memes to communicate.

>>15416966
Many Arabs contributed mighty to human understanding, but they did so in spite of their religion, not because of it. Arabs were world renowned mathematicians and astronomers long before Islam was founded. Jews were living mostly in Christendom during the Dark Ages and were persecuted just for existing, they achieved very little during this time period, which is understandable because they were enduring the worst abuses. Even if this were true, anyway; it does not prove the necessity of these religions, it's a poor kind of ideology that creates problems and then sells you the cure.

>>15416991
Low iq poster btfo pseuds itt.

>>15416992
>I also use reddit memes to communicate
>söyjack.png
you almost got a real response but this was laying it on a little too thick. 5/10

>>15416996
>they did so in spite of their religion
Source. Sounds out of your ass
>>15416983
Yes

>>15414822
What are saint and miracles, some of the most famous ones happened in modern times.
Fatima, apparitions in Egypt, Lourdes, La Salette

>>15416992
>My life is a series of chemical reactions
Mine isn't, but yours probably is. You sound like a soulless meat-puppet created by a solipsistic false god.

>>15417033
the sheer predictability of this response is ironic

>>15417033
>My life has meaning because I don't believe in God , but your life has no meaning because you believe in God

>>15417018
>Source

The empires of the Ancient Middle East are renowned for their contributions to the fields of astronomy and mathematics, Babylonia, for example, was the world's first empire and was of paramount importance to human knowledge long before Ancient Greece or Rome. I see no reason why the same race who were mankind's foremost thinkers in the past wouldn't be mankind's foremost thinkers centuries later. No mystical explanations need apply, they highly capable before this particular religion and they'll be highly capable when it dies.

>>15417080
Are you retarded or straight from Reddit or both? Contributions in science weren't atheistic until extremely recently.

There is a reason Copernicus' text was called Revolution of the HEAVENLY Spheres. Ibn Al-Haytham's Optics, which basically inspired incredible progress in optics and astronomy, was heavily dependent on God as well, thanking God at the end of each book.

You're a deluded brainlet.

>nuh uh, (my favorite kike religion) was the best (because some time period)
lol chirstcucks have devolved to balkan shitposting-tier arguments

>>15417080
Yeah what other guy said. Every people you mention was highly religious. There's zero reason to believe they did it without motivation from God. And Muslims did not even become scientifically advanced until after Mohammed. These people were literal herders that ended up world powers.

>>15417080
The akkadians were the first empire. Go away hammurabi

>>15417097
We have records of what life was like before your Canaanite storm deity blessed us with his presence. Things were quite fine. I am not trying to prove that Atheism is a good idea. I am challenging your idea that human thought was not possible until an ancient Canaanite man pointed at a distant mountain and said: "There is a big man up there who makes rain if he is a happy and when he is angry he throws flaming hail". The progress of human thought was admirable before the mountain man. The progress of human thought slowed when the mountain man started looking down on us. The progress of human thought picked up again when the Mesopotamian mountain man proved to be false. I am not trying to advocate for Atheism, I am asking you to prove that this particular mountain man is special.

>>15417150
Fair enough Sargon, you got there first but I wasn't that far behind.

>>15417160
>>15417160
This was no man, he was the God that created the universe. If he chose to come down, he came down in various ways, as a ball of light they followed, as a being whose 'face' someone saw.

Surely God exists in some form of a metaphysical relation to man, both really and spiritually, and for this reason this being created us in a perfect form. If he is anthropomorphic or not it does not matter, he essentially created this world for us, and if you do not see that, it makes you deluded.

These things we discover scientifically, they existed when he made the universe and he knew we would find them, like the first principles of mathematics. And I'm certain he even helped us along the way through divine inspiration. But overall, it is the human creation's innovative spirit and energy that discovers more about the world around him every day.

I will admit there were different gods being worshipped at the time of Yahweh, but Yahweh turned out to be the God who created human beings in general, as he ended up showing through successive prophets like Jesus Christ and Mohammed.

>>15417219
>"but Yahweh turned out to be the God who created human beings in general"

What are you basing that on? This isn't a silly joke, I really want to know.

>>15414339
Viewing the binding of Isaac this way is a choice and it is by far the most cucked, feminine perspective out there.
>Wow girl he like gaslit you into almost sacrificing your child? And then pulled out at the last second? Leave him, sis!
Pathetic. Have you considered that Abraham, of his own will, went to sacrifice his child? He did this, WILLINGLY, (read: affirmatively) because he had faith that if God made him wait so long to have Isaac, and if God had also promised him to be the father of all nations, then obviously God would just bring Isaac back to life if Abraham killed him.
Holy Scripture isn’t wrong, God (the omnipotent Being beyond being) isn’t wrong, YOU ARE WRONG.

>>15417256
y*hw*h demanded people kill their children so often that this explanation doesn't hold, if anything your ignorance just proves the isaac story is yaldabaoth propaganda to lure more people into following child sacrifice in hope that they are stopped before the moment of death
quit worshiping evil gods and wake up

>>15416376
Based

>>15417285
Just keep reading hermeticus trimegistus till your brain leaks out your ears

>>15417339
id rather have my brain melt than worship a god of rape, circumcision, and genocide

>>15417256
>god knows best, he’s always looking out for me, he’d never do anything to hurt me, I had it coming really...
christoids always talk about god like battered wives

The abrahamic God is evil and Christians go through mental gymnastics to justify worshiping a literal space beast

>>15417378
He's not a space-monster. The people who wrote the Bible didn't know that outer space existed, sometimes he's a mountain-dwelling creature and sometimes he lives on a throne which sits atop the iron dome which covers the earth (of course there's a sky-dome, what did you think those lights were? Distant stars you say? How absurd.) This inconsistency is a result of the Bibles authors attempting to combine multiple gods into a single creature.

>>15416278
>but when the times are bad or can't find minerals, they do that kind of sacrifices,
But wouldn't it be harder finding a baby to sacrifice than the other stuff listed?

>>15417236
The Holy Bible and the Quran.

>>15417408
>>15417378
You're both obviously lost. Reddit is this way.

>>>/reddit.com/r/atheism

xD

>>15417468
r*ddit is about hating god because they love their gay cuck neighbor
we are having a serious conversation about y*hw*h being an arab storm/volcano demon who demands dead children
THIS is LITERALLY recorded history and IN THE BIBLE

>>15417450
Have you ever noticed that when the Bible is talking about something which it's authors would have been familiar with (E.g The geography of Israel, Jewish history, the diet of an Israelite) they're correct, but when they talk about things outside their area of expertise they're wrong? They assumed that there were Giants living in the Middle East, they assumed that the Earth is held up by columns, they assumed that you could fit every animal on Earth into a rather small boat. I'm not saying that divine things don't exist, but why should we trust the authors of this particular book? They have a long record of being mistaken about the most basic facts of life, how can we trust them to know the answers to big questions like morality or life after death?

>>15417497
There has been some archaeological evidence of giants.

They are purported to be the offspring of the nephilim and man.

>>15415864
Jordan?

>>15417513
I'm going to take you at your word and assume that giants are real. How do you explain Noah's Ark? And where are the columns?

>>15417497
If Moses actually talked to God he would have came down the mountain and told everyone that tiny organisms called germs cause diseases

>>15415600
It was a matter of loving and trusting God more than anything else. It's really not that hard to wrap your head around, unless of course you don't want to.

>>15417497
>they assumed that there were Giants living in the Middle East
left overs of angel mutts had lifelong spans and would grow big hard to prove hard or disprove they were real alot of religions share myths of people like them for example Heracles

>they assumed that the Earth is held up by columns
How would you explain gravitational waves back then

>they assumed that you could fit every animal on Earth into a rather small boat.
you can fit their genetic code

>how can we trust them to know the answers to big questions like morality or life after death?
you can't i think morality in the end comes down to whether someone more powerful than you finds it right or wrong, foundations are laid with violence by an alpha male that's why different cultures develop different views on right and wrong there's not a right or wrong at all it all comes down to what the last alpha male with violence said it was right or wrong

>>15414339
But he told him to stop bro. It was only a prank.

>>15417572
>The Giants
Am I to understand that you're saying that Herakles is real, but he's the son of an angel and a mortal? The Bible says the giants were the "sons of god" not angels.
>The Ionic Columns
I would say: "Things fall towards your planet, but your planet does not fall to anything, it is balanced evermore. When you go far enough into the air, you will be beyond the range of falling back, you will not fall but will rest in the void." I would spend a great deal of time expanding on this and would cut out all of the stuff about dietary restrictions to make room.
>Noah's DNA bank
Am I given to understand that cloning and artificial insemination are involved here? I approve of this explanation, because you're thinking outside the box, but I think you should choose a better book to analyse.
>Morals
I think you're right, I think morality is particular to each culture. That's one of the reasons I think the Bible has done so much damage. It's ideas about morality are particular to the Ancient Near East, nobody would defend the morality of the bible in any part of the world today and that's why people waste so much time trying to lawyer-ball their way out of obeying the damn thing.

>>15417673
The nephilim giants arent the sons of god, the sons of god impregnated women and made the nephilim

>>15417513
>There has been some archaeological evidence of giants.
>>>/x/

>>15415888
The truth that he only gave to the Israelites, right

>>15417718
bro
how do you explain easter island heads?

>>15416946
Major pseud take. The Dark Ages are a myth created by Italian renaissance men to justify classicism as restorative. The second half of the first millenium was shitty with famines, plagues, and war but nowhere was there any great loss of knowledge. Actually it was the opposite: literacy (brought with Christianization) brought an end to prehistory in much of Europe, and coincided with the spread of technologies such as the heavy plow, the horse collar, ship and tidal watermills, two-field crop rotation, horseshoes and the stirrup. If you weren't such a dipshit you would be aware that classical texts were painstakingly copied by monks, who also produced histories, annals, legal codes, and pieces of fiction (the Carolingian Renaissance).

>>15417715
You speak the truth, but I think the words "sons of god" alone, say a lot about what the authors of the Bible believed, like many ancient religions, they believed that gods were physical beings with sexual needs that they sometimes impregnated human women. All of this talk about Yaweh being "perfect" and "the only god" was swapped into the religion at a later date and this line is one of many which hints at the historical origins of Abrahamic religion.

>>15415985
Satan (as modern people understand the name) only appears once in the entire Bible, that being in the book of Job. However, he seems to be on the side of God, working for him (even though his name means adversary, it's kinda complicated). There is no other mention of Satan in this way until the New Testament. Also Lucifer is not Satan, the term Lucifer is used to describe a certain king in the OT and Jesus in Revelation.

>>15417763
>100 monks burn a text
>1 with a moral compass refuses or hides it
...
>1000 years later christians change their mind on the text
wow what a win for christians

>>15417774
no im pretty sure satan also stops that one guy and makes his donkey talk
but yes ha-satan is the adversary, an angel of god meant to fuck with people
christian pseudo-dualism transformed him into the evil almost-god

>>15414857
If Brave New World-type societies are so great, why are most humans naturally repulsed by the idea of living in one?

>>15417791
When did monks burn classical texts? Name a few incidents.

>>15417773
Pretty much. The Enochian traditions developed the sons of god nephilim stories further with the Book of Giants and the Book of Watchers. Enochian judaism is dead and long gone and the rabbinical talmud has polemics against apocalyptic enochians. It had an influence though with its dualism and apocslypticism. Book of Enoch is quoted in the epistle of jude

>>15417829
I can't wait to hear your apologetics on who burnt the writings of Arius or Nestorius
Please, enlighten me on who the true actors in heretical edicts were
While you're at it, why were the Nag Hammadi texts hidden after the Easter Letter?

>>15415854
>perspective of honestly
>the father of faith
Sorry bro but nah

>>15417763
>boats didn’t exist in Europe prior to Christianity
christoids are this delusional

>>15417763
> literacy (brought with Christianization) brought an end to prehistory in much of Europe
Literacy may have existed in Europe prior to Christianity, there are some obscure, little-known languages called "Ancient Greek" and "Latin", some very controversial historians have begun to suggest that these languages existed long before the Tower of Babel was ever built. And that they spread around through a thing called "The Roman Empire" this conflicts strongly with Biblical chronology, but it's gaining acceptance. There are also controversial rumours of a written language in Germany called "Furthark" spread through a group called the Vikings. Needless to say, the bible does not mention these people and their very existence conflicts with theology because somehow they managed to sail throughout the world without ever encountering the edge of the firmament, but I believe in them.
>".nowhere was there any great loss of knowledge."
Rumours abound of the devil giving things to Pagans, things called "Concrete", "Life Drawing", "Geometry", "Bridges", "Roads", "Aqueducts". All of theses things ceased to exist after Christianity took over Europe and the best Christian science cannot rebuild them, proof that, practical though they may be, they are the devil's own works.
>" If you weren't such a dipshit you would be aware that classical texts were painstakingly copied by monks"
Only the right kinds, Brother in Christ, the writings of Celsus, for example were the spawn of Satan and had to be destroyed in their totality. Those wicked Pagan statues of naked people were also likely to inspire lust and idolatry and therefore had to be smashed for the greater glory of God. The Temple of Jupiter on the Capitol, for instance was the home of many a well-crafted Idol and therefore had to be totally annihilated, beauty, is the work of the devil. Hence why pious Christian artists produce crude doodles devoid of any knowledge of perspective, anatomy, or gesture.

>>15415943
Jews suffered all the time, regardless wether you think they were 'true' or 'false‘ jews.
You're being really dishonest.

>>15417908
Name one time jews have suffered

>>15418040

>>15417080
>>15417143
The God of Science is just secularised Abrahamic God. Do it for Science is the same as do it for God, religion just fell out of favour or its aesthetic did. Difference is God entails the depth of a well-developed religion pretty much addressing everything in life and death, Science is narrow and blind.
t. born irreligious

>>15417872
Christians burning the writings of other contemporary Christian sects, not classical texts.
>>15417898
Ok, Europe outside of the Roman empire was brought literacy with Christianization. Ogham and runes don't predate this era.
Concrete was abandoned in favor of stone because volcanic ash wan't readily available everywhere. Geometry didn't disappear, it was taught as part of the quadrivium. Roads and bridges continued to be built in Gaul and Italy after the fall of Rome. Aqueducts fell into disuse in Western Europe with the collapse of the empire but were maintained in the east and even rebuilt in 767 by Constantine V.

>>15418084
abrahamic god is just a judaised ahura mazda
except you are meant to worship evil

>>15418092
Hypatia

>>15416487
Isn’t that survivor-bias

>>15418084
>Science is narrow and blind
Worship some other god/goddess then, one that isn't obsessed with death and suffering, Aphrodite seems nice.

>>15418092
>"Europe outside the Roman Empire.."
There's evidence of Elder Runes from as far back as the second century, this is long before Scandinavia fell to the Cross, the New Testament was only 80 years old at this point and there wasn't even an official church yet to decide which of the books were canon.
>"Concrete was abandoned"
Seems you're right about that one.
>"Geometry didn't disappear.."
This is because the church had started giving up on Christianity early on. They found that it was too difficult to ban certain things and therefore edited the Bible to include a passage where Jesus goes to Hades (is Greek Mythology canon in Christianity?) to convert all of the Ancient Pagan authors, this dubious justification was used to argue that certain Pagan philosophers were now Christian and therefore their work was holy. I believe the church has since admitted to the deception and removed the insertion. Thus, the question of whether it's moral for a Christian to read heathen books is still up in the air.
>"Roads and Bridges"
This was another result of Christianity backing down on their positions, the Church turned a blind eye to heretical endeavours when it was convenient. There are many bridges across the world called "The Devil's Bridge", all rumoured to have been made by Satan because the Christians could not understand how such a structure could be built without recourse to dark powers.
>"Aqueducts fell into disuse.."
You can find many stories of Christians preserving things for pragmatic reasons, even though it was technically sinful. But the broader point still stands, the church was generally an obstacle to Intellectualism (except in cases where they could profit by it i.e Aristotle) Christians were not only intellectual vandals, but they committed the much greater (in my eyes at least) crime of cultural vandalism, stories abound of Christians destroying other people's cultural treasures and holy sites and this is regarded as a noble act. The general pattern is obvious, Christianity will take what it can from other people and destroy what it cannot. Western civilisation was not built by Christians, it merely survived them.

>>15417883
I make more typos on my phone than I ever realize. But yes actually, Abraham is absolutely the father of faith.

>>15417898
>>15418324
this is simply too based for me

>>15417773
>>15417855
yahweh being a perfect god is a literal christian invention they changed the translation of the antique testament if the bible to fit their story, the og bible written in ancient Hebrew never says yahweh was an omnipotent god and everytime the word elohim is used Christians interpretation is a sort of name to call god but elohim means
THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE, specifically using the plurality of the world meaning more gods, i think ancient jewish religion is basically the same as any religion mentioning a bunch of gods but I was later changed by Christianity to fit some agenda

>>15418465
Elohim is a plural noun but whenever it means God aka the god of Israel its conjugated with a singular verb

>>15418465
ill critique this a little bit and say that hebrews were already reinventing yahweh and their torah traditions
you mention elohim correctly, but neglect, like many other words translated in some form to "God" (el shaddai for example) that they are ultimately coopting El to be the same as YHWH, merging the two gods and subsuming El into YHWH
you can see this further in their false etymology of Israel
It's important to remember that the Torah is a propaganda document against other Canaanites and Israel/Samaria, in favor of Judea
They do not hesitate to steal from all their neighbors and denigrate them

>>15418520
basically yahweh is the god assigned to jews but there are more of them assigned to different people

>>15418465
You're mostly correct. It was the people of Judah who decided that Yahweh was the only god, and they combined all the pre-existing gods into one, this is why God's behaviour in the Bible is so inconsistent, this is also why he talks to himself. The Judeans, however, did not think of Yahweh as all-powerful or all-knowing or all-benevolent, the Bible is replete with stories of God being out-done (he looses a wrestling match once, he's unable to fight Iron Chariots) ignorant (he needs to come down from the mountains to reconnoitre Sodom and Gomorrah and the Tower of Babel, he looses track of Abel during a time when there are only five humans in existence) and the evidence of God being short-tempered, anti-social and violent speaks for itself. It was Christians who decided God was "perfect" and tried to impose these ideas on the Bible, sometimes editing it to do so.

>>15418324
>They found that it was too difficult to ban certain things and therefore edited the Bible to include a passage where Jesus goes to Hades (is Greek Mythology canon in Christianity?) to convert all of the Ancient Pagan author
kek this was such desperate cope on their part, i don't see how anyone can hear stories like this about the ancient church and not at least become suspicious of the whole enterprise

>>15416992
Lol the absolute state of /lit/

>>15417808
wrong, satan means the adversary hes not under yahweh subordination but is kind of an equal that's why he's the adversary imagine yahweh doing some sort of interactive experiment with the jewish people and satan his political opposition

>>15418065
there's alot of example if jews suffering through history for being leeches and parasiting whole countries and you could take any example of the thousand of times they were expelled from a country, but you choose to show the suffering of jews as their inability to mutilate children... based

>>15414844
whats the reasoning for circumcision? im going through the old testament and jehova doesnt care to explain why im supposed to cut my dick off

>>15418728
god was a tattoo hater and mutilation comes alonf with a child blood flesh sacrifice that's always appreciated

>>15418728
It's an efficient way of degrading the limbic system during infancy.

>>15416026
>thou who changest not

>>15418728
Common in the Ancient Near East (nobody knows exactly why) but fell out of favour later on, So Israelites continued to practice it in order to mark themselves out in a distinctive way. This became very important to Jewish culture during the Second Temple Period when Jewish refuges were living in non-Jewish countries and needed a way to identify each other. The religious connotations were cobbled together later on and never fully explained.

>>15418610
The Satan is absolutely under yawheh and at his command. See numbers, job, chronicles

>>15417895
pagans wouldn't have made boats if not inspired by the stories of jesus walking on water