/lit/ - Literature

>>15403394
>what is the libertarian left?

What are you an idiot
>call it overblown propaganda
>call the USSR not a real success of leftism
There you go

>>15403394
put your mind at ease with these infographics

>>15403394
wasnt this book just some shit he made up later? and said like "this is a history of an idea of what it might had been like." gay. i prefer real history

>>15403407
that should do it

Gulags were unironically awesome. get fucked piggies, they should have complied with the law. Just like in the US, no one innocent goes to jail.

>>15403407
this only makes me want to bring back Tsarists Russia even more
we need to go back to kings and shit

>>15403398
>libertarian left

Nice contradiction, leftism is inherently collectivist and authoritarian

>>15403410
yes its a work of fiction, but then liberals are well experienced at mistaking idea for reality

>>15403407
dude 1942 was bangin. The had corona that year?

>>15403423
just all the nazis they captured.

>>15403420
b a i t

>>15403418
i can respect this position
though i must oppose it
>>15403420
correct, and thats a good thing
>>15403423
inmates were distressed over the misfortunes befalling the glorious soviet peoples and humors became imbalanced resulting in ill health

>>15403394
The USSR was a despotic fascist state and I have nothing but disgust for tankies.
>t. anarchist

>>15403407
Please provide total deaths and not just mortality rates. 15% of millions > 50% of thousands.

And please confirm the number of gulags, the locations of these facilities, and the relative severity of the sentencing itself. That is to say: If Tsarist gulags were used sparingly, only located in horrific places, and treated as equivalent to a death sentence (as opposed to a form of exile, forced relocation, free labor for the state), then a 50% mortality rate might be expected. Also account for the advancements in technology and materials from 1885 to 1950. We move into electricity, modern medicine, and synthetic materials at that point.

This is the problem with statistics, they only say exactly what you intend them to.

anarchists are cute like little sister who means well and tries her best but is kind of dumb
>t. tankie

>>15403518
tankies are bootlickers

>>15403512
>Please provide total deaths and not just mortality rates. 15% of millions > 50% of thousands.
Whats that have to do with anything? The argument is over the conditions of the prison system. Are you now going to dictate laws to other nations about who should and should not be imprisoned?

>>15403521
stalin was born to a cobbler, he surely knows the best boots

>>15403537
and you were born to lick a Stalin's boots

>>15403394
This thread bound to be filled with retarded COPING from leftist faggots. Predictable shit from delusional betas who crave to lord over others (which they can never achieve).

>>15403560
*deleuzeonal

>>15403530
Maybe I am just a tankie, but I like facts that are backed up by evidence and data.

>>15403543
as was the whole of the world anon, for he is the living dialectic

>>15403394
...it's a work of fiction?

>>15403560
and petersoncels pretending they know anything of geo-politics like their drug addict daddy

>>15403571
Anon be reasonable here. The argument about gulags is 'how terrible they were people went there and then died from being worked to death'.
Whether we are talking about 10 people or a billion people here doesn't matter because the accusation is precisely the claim that they have a high mortality rate.
I have posted a picture which claims that they in fact do not.

Now you could accuse that picture as being false. This is what you could do. It, i believe, has its sources cited at the bottom and you can take it up with them.
But what you cant do is somehow imply that if gulags had a million prisoners and 10 thousand of them died that this is somehow worse than if a prison had 100 prisoners and 9 of them died.

To claim total deaths alone is the factor is injecting the presupposition that nobody should have been in those gulags at all, that all are innocent, and that there is no argument being made against their conditions, but rather an appeal to emotion over all the deaths caused by those horrible communists.
An argument for liberal women.

>>15403577
He's literally the most prolific serial killer in history.

>>15403622
Everyone liked stalin except trots and anarchists. Literally everyone else loved him the world over.

Then after he died, khrushchevs vile slander started. He did this because he needed to build a legacy. How can one even compete with great stalin? Not at all is how! So he had to simultaneously promise impossible things like 'communism soon :^)' while tearing down stalins legacy. Only by simultaneously producing the impossible and slandering stalin to the dirt could he even hope to have a chance to surpass the legacy of stalin.

Unfortunately, due to being in the middle of the cold war, the west took his anti-stalin propaganda, and simply regurgitated it as normal anti-soviet propaganda. Thus as a side effect of slandering their enemy, they also slandered stalin, and the liberals everywhere believed it because generally liberals are idiots.

This is the complete and accurate history of the events related to this, nothing else of consequence occurred that needs considering.

>>15403651
>Everyone liked stalin except trots and anarchists. Literally everyone else loved him the world over.
the fucking delusion of tankies lol. Nobody likes your paranoid retard of a mass murdering dictator

>>15403666
koba was a gentle child with a strong sense of rightness
he wanted nothing more than for people to recognize his good deeds
as he aged he knew the circumstances of history would make this impossible. he knew the one thing he wanted most would be denied him as his enemies would tarnish his name
he went on anyway, becuase thats all a man such as him could do, all the boy who dreamed of justice could do, continue fighting regardless of whether anyone would even know he did.

But i know he did. And now you do to.

>>15403651
Holy shit lmao. Tanky conspiritards are hilarious. Your hero was literally the equivalent of a school shooter with political power.

>>15403672
People who want power shouldn't have it.
Stalin kept trying to retire, but was forced to stay in his position. This is why he is the only honest head of state to have ever existed in human history.

communists aren't a thread to the established order, that's why it's ok to be one despite their legacy of crimes. if they were a threat they would be hounded and supressed like fascists, who are an actual threat.

>>15403651
what about Holodomor?

>>15403394
USSR was fucking crazy bro Americans would never do that shit

>>15403678
fascists aren't a threat, but a hope. fascism is where crashing capitalism aims to land, for fascists don't shoot the bourgeoisie but collaborate with them

the reason fascism is growing in popularity is due to the ammount of ww2 movies and video games with nazis as the bad guys. It presents, not so much 'bad guys', but comical villians nobody can take seriously. This makes them never transmit a cautionary tale, but rather as simply designated 'other guys', the other team. Moreover, they are presented as having advanced technology, and maybe even secret occult magic. And very cool uniforms.
Who could possibly not see the appeal? So the seed is planted in the young mind, as he plays the german team or watches his movies about scary german tanks, or documentaries about torsion field hovertanks flying to antarctica or the moon. This is all so that if he ever feels dissatisfied with the status quo he immediately joins the other team that has been prepared for him, and comfortably becomes a fascist waiting to collaborate with the bourgeoisie.

>>15403394
>What is anarchism, Siri?

>>15403672
>>15403666
>>15403622
>>15403543
>>15403521
cringe

>>15403678
you internet fascists are funny goons.

>>15403394
The author admitted to making it up.

>>15403407
Now do The US empire

>>15403691
Natural disaster. I remind you a famine was what caused the october revolution to start with. Some historians claims that ww2 was caused by paranoia about famines. Famine was simply common during that time. The USSR developed agriculture to a point that by the time it collapsed such things were abolished.

>>15403708
and you commies are lapdogs for the liberals you pretend you're fighting

>>15403670
what is this, the intro to avatar the last tankie?

>>15403714
come on you know the difference between orthodox communists and liberals very well, stop meme'ing.

Was it like one in nine men incarcerated in the US? The state is centralised power, ofcourse it'd be easy to blame them.
Who is our Stalin? Cringey tinfoilhats are grabbing at straws, with Soros and the Rothschilds.
Yet the result is the same.

>>15403423
Dunno man, everytime I look into 1941-1945 USSR there's a bunch of wacky stuff.

>>15403505
The USSR was flawed but it wasn't comparatively much worse than other superpowers.
The EU is the correct synthesis of the US and USSR.

>>15403512
>This is the problem with statistics, they only say exactly what you intend them to.
Unlike fictional novels? How convenient.

>>15403747
>EU gun control
Miss me with that shit

>>15403729
I didn't say you were liberals, I said you were their bitches, that's why they let you exist and larp at their institutions. You do whatever they really want anyway, if they tell you race and trannies matter more than class then you listen.

>>15403757
Ah, you're delusional.

>>15403710
I just spent some time trying to find historical numbers for prisoner mortality in the US and apparently it only started being tracked in 2000.
So i assume it was worse than the ussr else it would have been flaunted against their statistics during the cold war,

>>15403773
Check out which books Amazon, the evil capitalist mega-corp decides to ban. Absolutely nothing about communism, it's all about jews and fascism. Notice the Harvard International Socialists exist but not the International Fascists. Notice hollywood will make a biopic about Che Guevara, not about Mussolini.

You are literally a sort of gay jester for liberal progressives

>>15403773
kek are you beginning to see why arguing with these faggots is a waste of time?

>>15403716
koba is the name of a character in a classic georgian novel stalin was fond of. he made his friends and family call him that name when he was young, and close friends continued to call him that into adulthood.
it is a robinhood type character.

Imagine little stalin, reading of being robinhood, and then deciding to become a priest, only to at the last moment actually go for it and set out to become a bank robber for the bolsheviks, fulfilling his dreams, and becoming the most powerful man on the planet!
Such an inspiration!

>>15403757
>I said you were their bitches, that's why they let you exist and larp at their institutions
prove it. also don't come up with shitty examples like idpol succdems larping as democratic socialists.
for communists the class struggle was/is/will be always on the top.

>>15403821
hahahahahahaha
I believe... coba can change the world
BUMMMM BUMM BUMM BUMMMMM

>>15403813
>Check out which books Amazon, the evil capitalist mega-corp decides to ban. Absolutely nothing about communism, it's all about jews and fascism.
have you heard of the streisand effect?
communism is best suppressed through obscurity

>>15403811
Figures

Why do leftists support gun control? They should support gun ownership more than anyone; how else is their "revolution" going to happen?

>>15403711
你是五毛吗?

>>15403854
是,你呢?

>>15403813
Subverting different groups requires different tactics.

>>15403845
>Shoots hat off head

>>15403701
most retarded post in this thread

this thread fucking sucks

>>15403865
当然,我就在这里教人什么是"天灾" ;)

>>15403813
>Notice hollywood will make a biopic about Che Guevara
notice how the films are about his motorcycle diaries? fetishization of le young cool hip med student living the careless bohemian lifestyle with his bud and on the way he suddenly gets mature by seeing and helping poor people, this is peak liberal narrative. there isn't an ounce of communism in it.
now please don't complain about the lack of Mussolini t-shirts.

also Chernobyl tv series which is full of anti-ussr propaganda is the most popular and highly rated series on imdb. and open the youtube right now and i am sure you will find the anti-communist propaganda as much as anti-fascist propaganda if not more than it.

>>15403413
what kind of work was done in the gulags that granted them similar pay to regular citizens?

>>15403911
本的,加油!

Anyone have a good list of history of the russian revolution and the USSR?

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/258095847