/lit/ - Literature

>>15402791
The Practices of the Musicians by Headry Hawthorne

I suggest rejecting modernity entirely and starting with baroque 4 voice counterpoint.
Due to the antiquated nature you should just watch youtube videos about it instead of trying to find translated treatises

In this you learn the true nature of harmony and intervals, and dispel the myth, the absolute fabricated lie, of chords.

Chords do not exist anon, they are just simultaneous counterpoint.

A chord is literally a string originally! A single string, with a single note! They mock you anon, by reusing the word to mean something different, to supplant the truth. By subverting it and giving you modern bastardizations of theory they bring you further away from the divine.

>>15402834
Link to a piece, anon.

Rhythm and Noise

>>15402791
Schoenberg might be the last person I would ask for insight concerning music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TDlBCrK56E

>>15402926
Okay, but that’s clearly experimental work not meant to reflect traditional aesthetics nor theory. Plus, he was a master of the late romantic style as well.

>>15402884
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIMNTMreIig

>>15402791
Are you learning an instrument as well? You should learn theory and practice in tandem; if you cannot apply the theory, you don't know it. You only know a simulacrum of it.

>>15402791
> I know the very basics, intervals, modes, scales, chords, but I don't know how to put it all together in any practical use.

How is this even possible?

>>15402834
Chords existed during the Baroque era, REEEEEEEEEEEETARD

>>15403026
Memorizing textbook definitions and not actually being able to play anything? I could spend my time learning to draw a straight line, but if I never actually pick up a pen...

>>15403026
Like knowing different phrases and words in a foreign language but not knowing how to string them into a proper sentence.

>>15403036
You entirely missed the point he was making

>>15403037
>>15403042
Lol, so /lit/, which is the better analogy?

>>15403037
That doesn't fit under any sane person's definition of "know" desu.

>>15403044
>Chords are a lie! Reject modernity
>Meanwhile here use theory made people who used and lauded the use of chords
It at least would be coherent if he refered to Renaissance polyphony and not baroque like the pseud retard he is.

>>15403014
I know guitar and bass, started learning keyboard couple weeks ago. And I agree with you, I read a bit of Schoenberg's Harmony and often I'd only understand something after grabbing the guitar and "seeing it for myself".

>>15403026
I think this is as accurate as possible >>15403042.

>>15403060
>Chords are a lie! Reject modernity
Is a shit-tier strawman of
>Chords do not exist anon, they are just simultaneous counterpoint
Which if you had any meaningful knowledge of functional harmony you'd understand.

>>15403062
Definitely use the keyboard for working out concepts. Especially with voiceleading, learning it on paper and then physically practicing with your hands really helps internalize the music. You begin to feel it in equal capacity to how you think about

>>15403072
Why listen to you when you don’t even know what a strawman is.
>Strawman = a misrepresentation representation
>>15402834
>the myth, the absolute fabricated LIE, of chords.

>>15403052
Have you never met amateur musicians? They do this all the time. Every jazz jam there's some pseud talking about
>dilla beats
>Secondary dominants
>tritone subs
While they vibe everyone and can never really comp while having one solo they keep repeating. Oh and there's also this guy lol
>>15403089
>>15403060

>>15403072
Your “meaningful knowledge” seems like it came exactly from that anons advice, from youtube videos. Chords as functioning harmonically are and were usefully conceptualized as existing in and establishing key areas in the baroque era and were not simply the happy consequence of contrapuntal writing.

>>15403111
Are you really so fucking dumb that you can't mentally navigate the concept of chord progressions as simultaneous counterpoint?

>>15403104
>he got filtered by tritones subs

>>15403121
>Are you really so fucking dumb that you can't mentally force yourself to follow antiquated theory that not a single great composer has bothered with for nearly 400 years because there’s a far more powerful and convenient tool at hand
You might as well stop using computers and go back to pen and paper if you’re gonna ‘reject modernity’

>>15403121
Nonsequtur and ad hominem. But what can you expect from someone who begins his post with a /pol/ meme.

>>15403139
>Nonsequtur and ad hominem. But what can you expect from someone who begins his post with a /pol/ meme

>>15403153
Typical brainlet response

>>15403132
For sure man, that's a rational conclusion to draw from a discussion on how to view harmony.
>>15403139
It's non sequitur you pedantic faggot.

>>15403121
If you’re not the original poster of this argument, I don’t know why you’re defending it. Yes chord progressions can be seen as simultaneous counterpoint in the sense that each voice will have voice leading tendencies and in music such as Bach they will have their own independent lines. However it’s just ignorant to say that chords are a modern lie and the great old composers wrote solely with counterpoint in mind. Suggesting the OP to start with four voice counterpoint is also retarded and a clear indicator that the poster just jumped into youtube videos somewhere and doesn’t have a comprehensive education. The other anon was right, maybe if he had talked about renaissance music he could have a stronger point, where the music and voices were led by intervals between voices thus creating counterpoint. But by the baroque era the concept of keys was very much present and keys are established purposefully by chords. Which again yes CAN at times be viewed as results of the counterpoint, but it’s just misleading and incorrect to imply that counterpoint is a hidden secret of the past and there was no notion of chords and therefor keys in baroque music

>>15403160
>Typical brainlet response
I don't even know music theory, but I know faggots. And you're a faggot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_theory_of_tonal_music
the linguists solved it

>>15403162
>For sure man, that's a rational conclusion to draw from a discussion on how to view harmony.
Oh and ‘reject modernity’ is a more rational approach? What hypocrisy in your part, anon.

>>15403166
>However it’s just ignorant to say that chords are a modern lie and the great old composers wrote solely with counterpoint in mind
Fuck man go re-read the post. Does that actually read like a serious viewpoint, or a hyperbole of how to view music? You'd think /lit/ could understand the concept of polemics, but I guess not lmao.

>>15403174
>Oh and ‘reject modernity’ is a more rational approach? What hypocrisy in your part, anon
Yeah man, that was a 100% serious post, glad to see you're capable of realizing that.

>>15403167
>I cant meaningfully contribute or keep up with the discussion somim just going to post memes
At least you admit you’re worthless

do you play an instrument? if you do and you’re a beginner i teach out of sandy feldstein’s practical theory workbook/textbook and the musician’s guide to theory and abalysis—i primarily give instrument lessons but in each lesson there’s a 20 minute theory component along with 35 minutes of practice. if you don’t play an instrument, it may be harder to puzzle out music theory, although i will think of recommendations anyways. it may be hard to understand jazz with no musical background.

>>15403182
As the ancient dictum goes: Ironic Shitposting Is Still Shitposting
>why dont you guys along with my bullshit larp???

>>15403190
Oof, that's a Nonsequtur there sweaty

>>15403195
i should say i’m not a music teacher by profession, though

this is just a side thing for supplemental income

>>15403182
Yes it does. It reads like a hot take that in typical super based fashion rejects some common concept, scorns it as modern, and suggests returning to an older forgotten concept that this poster, because he is so smart and based, despite having only a shallow grasp of what he’s trying to talk about. 90% of the posts here are like that except because it’s music theory not many people will have the knowledge to call it out

>>15403203
>>15403207

>>15403209
>continues to be contribute nothing

>>15403209
Me on the right

>>15403218
>continues to contribute nothing
at least post an image when you post on an imageboard you pedestrian

>>15402834
>trying to find translated treatises
Holy shit lmoa

>>15403207
>he thinks those kinds of posts are ever playing it straight
how dense
bet you reject the proven verifiable fact of whole beat too

Which books will help me master the acoustic guitar
I started playing because i wanted gf but I've accidentally fallen in love with the instrument instead

>>15403265
just play the guitar until you get good

>>15403262
Oh no I am not a subscriber of autisticsound think of me what you will but not that

>>15402834
>>15403257
>not learning German to read gradus ad Parnassum
Good luck learning to play anything
>>15403265
The Advancing Guitarist is unironically the best book you can get if you're an intermediate player. It will make you look at guitar in new ways.

>>15403284
But how do you explain that everything sounds better when slowed down (except bach who sounds good at any speed)?

>>15403293
Because it’s finally down to a speed that your ears can keep up with

>>15403262
>bet you reject the proven verifiable fact of whole beat too
Wait but what happens when the time signature changes from 4/4 to 9/8? What does whole note become?

>>15403299
The entire personality changes at different tempi. The exact same notes played fast can sound unbearably cheerful, but when slowed impart suspense and drama and deep introspection.

There is also the logical argument of the physical impossibility of even the best players to play at double beat suggested speeds, and other convincing arguments such as historical concert duration times matching whole beat playing of the known performances.

Yes im quite convinced.

>>15403303
whole beat is just a fancy way of saying play it at half speed
because pendulums
Its both a meme and also 100% correct

>>15403314
I used to perform Debussy with a pianist that would always play on the slow side. My messa di voce got so strong from having to deal with that.

>>15403013
Thanks, it's not what I was expecting but that's good.

>>15402834
based

>>15403601
Its more about mind expanding frames of reference. You can go learn normal theory after. But it tends to be taught linearly with chords as some kind of foundation to think around, which i think is the wrong way to look at it as it presents chords as the source and everything else to be ways of subdividing them and this can cement rigid thinking.

>>15402834
You read Mann once and now think you’re Leverkuhn

What are some good books for learning bass?

Music theory T.A. here. Laitz is a great book to learn from. I prefer it to Kotska because it spends time on second level analysis which will help you identify general patterns. I highly recommend getting the workbook as well. While I would recommend the Schoenberg book I think the most interesting aspects of it are Schoenberg’s philosophical tangents. I would recommend his book Style and Idea as well.