/lit/ - Literature

I'm trad is because I spend my time reading non-fiction rather than fiction

>>15387457
Reported

>>15387457
>hates trads
>posts a believing christian who would have remained virtuous had he not let the fame consume him

>>15387457
Traditionalism is just one big cope for being unable to operate in the modern world. It’s no surprise that the biggest proponents of the movement today are all holed up in Russia, staging themselves in opposition to the world rather than making constructive change. Traditionalists will always lose because they’re always playing defence, and time always triumphs. Their time would be better served trying to forge a modern world more conducive to their spirit, rather than harking back to times that either never existed, or are so far gone that there are barely echoes of their influence now. Prince Charles is the most pragmatic traditionalist today.

>>15387488
The way his life ended wasn't very Christian, now was it?

>>15387494
>whig history
NPC tier post

through reading old books traditionalism is the logical conclusion
the rage coming from leftoids is very telling

>>15387494
implying the modern world is good or that people should be accustomed to living in it
>russia bad
>whig history
>modernity good
>time always triumphs
>times that never existed
>high tory
what an npc reddit tier post

>>15387474
>>15387484
>>15387488
>>15387570
>>15387575
You have to admit that there's nothing more traditional than full-on illiteracy.

>>15387575
>let's go back to living in caves and dying of pneumonia after catching a minor cold

traditionalism should be treated as a developmental disability

>>15387541
I never said anything of the sort, I just perceive traditionalism (at least the Evolian/Duginist sort) as implicity accepting Whig history as the de facto state. Evola asks us to ‘ride the tiger’ until the ever-marching progression eventually implodes, but what happens then? Why not launch more proactive assaults on progression, rather than awaiting a mythic end to it. Why should we ride the tiger, and not kick the tiger’s legs out from under it?

>>15387575
I never said Russia was bad, merely that they’re impotent. Why are the traditionalists not seeking influence in the US, or China? In places where they can make a difference?

>>15387589
>crying on the internet
lmao

>>15387593
>thinking that is what traditionalism is
2/10
Leftism should be desu

>>15387613
>traditionalism is whatever I perceive it.
lol

>>15387647
>leftism
Completely vacuous, there’s nothing inherently anti-left about traditionalism. Dugin wrote the manifesto of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, and even his fascism seeks to veer away from Nazism towards the left.

>>15387638
Well done demonstrating my point, anon.

In an epoch of dissolution, this is the essential basis of a vision of life that is appropriate for the man reduced to himself, who must prove his own strength. Its counterpart is to be central or to make oneself so, to know or discover the supreme identity with oneself. It is to perceive the dimension of transcendence within, and to anchor oneself in it, making of it the hinge that stays immobile even when the door slams . . . it is the calm sense of a presence and an intangible possession, of a superiority to life whilst in the very bosom of life.

>>15387657
That’s not helpful, how much traditionalism have you actually read?

>>15387674
the legacy of Marxist Leninism is a nuclear armed fascist state.

>>15387689
And what about precludes the left?

>>15387682
all of it

>>15387695
Sure, yet from your arguments it’s quite clear you’ve not read Atlan Kosseim’s l'eredità di Cesare nella modernità, so come back when you have.

>>15387457
REAL traditionalism means going back before the Neolithic. Before metal, before animal husbandry, before agriculture, before writing, before industry, before all your "civilized" pantywaist-tier activities. Suck it up and throw yourself naked into the wilderness, you candyass.

>>15387689
Based.

>>15387689
Holy fuck that illustration is absolutely cringe with shitty aesthetics

>>15387733
>Sure, yet from your arguments it’s quite clear you’ve not read Atlan Kosseim’s l'eredità di Cesare nella modernità, so come back when you have.
what arguments? all there has been is people whining about traditionalism and me laughing at them.
If you are looking for a counter argument make some sort of statement or something

>>15387647
This is exactly what traditionalism proliferates. Stagnant thinking, to assume that the world ought to be the way it is in its archaic state because that's what humans are most accustomed to. To not make them seek out uncharted territory, to never grow beyond themselves, to never shed the dogmatic Stockholm-syndromesque relationship we have with the human condition because we'd rather believe that how it's always been is the best it can ever be than to admit that everything "traditional" about being human is a neverending cycle of suffering with no light at the end of the tunnel. We can change our stars, we don't have to be sexually dimorphic meatsacks playing house forever. Traditionalists have historically stood in the way of that because of their affinity to (religious) literature that often preaches rigid societal structures and assigns castes on immutable characteristics.

>>15387803
My main argument is that traditionalism isn’t proactive enough, it’s dilatory. Think of Zizek’s thoughts on Marxism and apply it to Traditionalism. The idea that trads need to be more pragmatic, rather than simply lying back and ‘riding the tiger’.

>>15387457
Rent Free

A farmer requested a Tendai priest to recite sutras for his wife, who had died. After the recitation was over the farmer asked: "Do you think my wife will gain merit from this?"

"Not only your wife, but all sentient beings will benefit from the recitation of sutras," answered the priest.

"If you say all sentient beings will benefit," said the farmer, "my wife may be very weak and others will take advantage of her, getting the benefit she should have. So please recite sutras just for her."

The priest explained that it was the desire of a Buddhist to offer blessings and wish merit for every living being.

"That is a fine teaching," concluded the farmer, "but please make one exception. I have a neighbor who is rough and mean to me. Just exclude him from all those sentient beings."

>>15387849
Who was the traditionalist? Who was the progressive?

Omnomnomnom boomer cock! My favorite! - /lit/
What did they mean by this?

>>15387494
modernity is one big cope for not being able to live in reality without toys. kys

>>15387806
you will never change your stars with technology or political systems in any way that doesn't lacerate what you're trying to free, if you think you can you can go on sharing a womb with the rest of them

Ma space travel is the biggest cope for nihilists and is one the main reasons why they haven't offed themselves yet because of this one, very vague promise.

There is nothing out there, best to spend time reconquering the world.

>>15387806
I agree with you we can't go back; the cat's out of the bag. We wouldn't be playing house we would be playing at playing house.
But there's nothing forward but techno-masturbation.

>>15387822
Traditionalism is a way of looking at reality it isn't some form of popular movement.

>>15387806
idk what you're actually whining about but none of what you described is traditionalism

>>15387989
>Marxism is a way of looking at reality it isn’t some form of popular movement

>>15387999
not an argument

>>15387994
Right, in essence it isn't. Traditionalism is actually just a coping mechanism, everything else is surface level larping. The dull metaphors, the sophistry, the magical thinking, the phrenology obsession - weak attempts to appear cultured and privy to esoteric knowledge, to give off a vibe of anthropological acuity. Trads don't have their hands on the pulse of humanity, we've evolved and we will continue to evolve.

>>15387457
As soon as a Religion & Philosophy board is created I'd be happy to go there instead

>>15388079
>Religion & Philosophy board
Those two subject are polar opposites, retard.

"So much for the tolerant left."

>>15388068
traditionalism is gay but so is this post

>>15388087
Dumbest post on /lit/ this week

>>15388104
Nope, that would be your latest.

>>15387457
What the fuck is this trad vs anti-trad ideology war? What the FUCK is trad? pro-monarchy? pro-dictator?

Traditionalism is the exact opposite of the Right.

>>15388113
>What the FUCK is trad?
Pro-retardation, essentially: Anti-literacy, anti-technology, ant-civilization. Pro-grunting-and-rutting in the mud like savages, basically.

>>15388068
the irony is your post is just whining about traditionalism no real arguments
2/10

>>15388113
>What the fuck is this trad
Perennialist School of Philosophy

Also there has yet to be a single argument against traditional here so far.
It is really just one person calling traditionalism anything they don't like

>>15388128
nah thats leftism

>>15388128
>anti-technology, ant-civilization.
absolutely based

they were here before 2016
>>15387689
its a joke but they will like unironically

>>15388161
>>15388189
AKA, Leftism is based.

>>15387589
y i k e s

>>15388087
>>15388104
Really depends on how you define each, so both of you are retards

>>15387806
What an impoverished view of tradition

>>15388282
Good job spacing out the letters so the trads can't sound it out.

>>15388068
Anyone who thinks calling something a coping mechanism constitutes a valid argument should kill themselves.

>>15388205
cringe

>>15388398
Apply Bengay to your anus ASAP.

>>15387613

"kicking the tiger's legs out from under it" sounds like a fairly good description of. . .exactly what the tiger is. . .(if you can't beat em. . .)

You're just as much stuck in the retarded traditionalist "cope" as they are you're just under the delusion that you have the power to do anything about whatever problem you anachronistic weirdos have with modernity. There might be a certain logic to "if you can't beat em join em" but you can't pretend you're stuck in any less of an impotent reactionary LARP than they are. Especially as long as "time always triumphs", which of course was your whig historicist criticism for these zoomer guenon posters.

I'm starting to think you might be even more of a faggot than they are.

>>15387747
China hasn't been socialist since Deng Xiaoping, who once famously said on the topic of socialism v capitalism "who cares if a cat is white, or black, as long as it catches mice?"

>>15387494
Humans aren’t adapted to this sort of living

>>15388413
double cringe

>>15388468
Just do it fagget

>>15388456
good because he accurately described modernity not tradition

>>15388474
Apply Bengay to your anus ASAP.

>>15388455
China is in the primary stage of socialism, namely market socialism.

Now whether you believe that is a copout or not, the PRC remains a quintessentially Marxist country whose policies are derived from the necessities imposed upon the Chinese superstructure by its inherent economic base. Just like the rationale behind Lenin's NEP, you cannot have a qualitative leap without the quantitative accumulation of productive forces.

Naysayers can moan and whine about Deng and his successors all they want, but the PRC's continued survival (and progress) under the guidance of the CPC stands testament to their commitment to scientific socialism rather than vulgar dogmatism.

>>15387457
Seriously they need to go back to /pol/ and reddit.

what do you think that term means? I suspect you have an image of televangelist priest, g bush or something. now if you used word like new zoomer popecuck or -larper then I would agree.

>>15388512
I'll acknowledge you have a point, but I think it might be somewhat moot. Capitalism itself seems to have developed past a point where Marx (this is going off my reading of 1844 manuscripts) would have considered it to be in early or proto-communism. Even if the hypothesis that the CCP has basically abandoned all marxist principles were true it could still be designated as being in some advanced stage of socialism under traditional marxist classifications at least insofar as they are nominally socialist (but big deal so is Bashar Assad).
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm inclined to say "eh" on this one.

>>15387457
I never understood why "traditionalist" larpers think anyone who isn't one of them must be a reddit-tier bugman that watches Marvel movies and reads Harry Potter. Anyone with a fucking brain clearly recognizes the problems with capitalism, corporatism, consumerism, technology, and scientism. It's just a matter of coping with how irrelevant their fairy-tale ideology has become.

>>15387488
Just making shit up now, are we? DFW experimented with quite a few religions, Catholicism being a notable one, but never stuck with any particular denomination. He was by no means an atheist, but don't try to delude gullible idiots into thinking he wanted to go back to Christendom like you dipshits.

>>15387541
>>15387575
>>15387875
>>15388456
>EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS REDDIT
>ANYONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO GO BACK TO RACIAL HIERARCHY AND MONARCHY IS CONSUMERIST
Imagine thinking someone who makes a thread about DFW is consumerist in any way, shape, or form.

>>15388128
Literally just want lower taxes and regulations.

>>15388593
>I never understood why "traditionalist" larpers think anyone who isn't one of them must be a reddit-tier bugman
becuase the only people whining about traditionalism is reddit teir bugmen

>>15388603
thats cuckservativism

>>15387494
>constructive change
You are a fanatic of a destructive status quo. Don't pretend trads aren't constructive.

>>15388570
The issue with making an appeal to Marx in this context is that Marxist-Leninist regimes employ Marx's work not as a matter of ideology, but rather of sociological analysis (i.e. 'scientific socialism' boiling down to technocratic governance in which policy is to be derived from Marxian sociological and economic investigations whose results are to be reviewed under the framework of dialectical materialism). Marx established a theoretical paradigm for the analysis of society which remains valid to this day, but Orthodox Marxism in itself (i.e. the application of the Marxian method of analysis by Marx and Engels themselves) suffers from lack of data. Deng's reforms must be understood in the same light as the leap from Marx to Lenin and from Lenin to Mao, namely in the context of the preexisting theory being reinforced by new data (theory -> praxis -> theory) and leading to the elaboration of sound revolutionary praxis and/or state policy for the new context within which it has been applied.

As for Syria being 'socialist', far from it. It simply has a higher degree of economic interventionism on the part of the state than other capitalist countries, but it is not even state capitalist (as some would accuse China of being in the post-Deng era). That being said, what ultimately separates it from the PRC is that it does not employ scientific Marxism, instead engaging in social fascism (i.e. reformism, 'social democracy' under an authoritarian regime) as a means of promoting class collaborationism and of appeasing the Syrian proletariat rather than establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat and abolishing classes.

>>15388603
That's called neoliberalism, my dude.

>>15387457
just to annoy you go be a commie on reddit

>dude traditions bad cause no tranny story hours