/lit/ - Literature

>both trannies are american

That refute science? No

>>15365415
What science?

>>15365407
Gender Trouble by Judith Butler.

It doesn't matter, reality is an illusion that never actually existed

How the fuck can you refute something that isn't inherently wrong? It's like asking to refute breathing.

>>15365407
I unironically would with Blaire.

>>15365420
Doesn't Judith Butler ultimately settle on a "performative" understanding of gender? That would just make the concept of gender itself entirely subjective and arbitrary.

>>15365423
Refute as in show that it makes no logical sense, not show that it's morally wrong.

>>15365415
autistic lego ain't nothing on the genderslime sublime

origin of the species

>>15365407
lacan

>>15365407
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3wcxHiorJ4

>>15365407
40%

>>15365407
what is "transgender ideology"

>>15365419
This science. You're not a science denier are you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJFb_P2j48

>>15365407
There is literally no transgender ideology.
"We deserve basic human rights and to be treated like the gender we identify as" isn't an ideology.

>>15365407
Why is Communism today dominated by gays and trannies?

>>15365415
>science
Baseless Screed written by neurotic Jews is not science. If gender is a social construct, which is literally the premise of trannyism, then it cannot be science.

>that one video where Jordan Peterson is arguing with a gender studies person
>Peterson: the science says gender is real
>gender studies person: actually, the science says the opposite
>they never actually cite any studies or talk about the "science"

>>15365407
The burden of proof is on the transgenders.

>>15365407
No. None.

>>15365572
The secular, Pedoexploitative religion of transgenderism

>>15365407
everything by jordan peterson

>>15365572
postmodern neomarxism

>>15365589
This is a totally fallacious claim, because we all know that’s not what it’s about. Your reproduction via child grooming is proof enough of that.
Modern Transgenderism is predicated on crimes against humanity

>>15365632
>Responding to obvious bait
Why, anon? Why?

>>15365438
Most would.

>>15365589
>>15365572
Transgender ideology does exist, if you ask any of them they'll probably give you one or several of these explanations (there might be more).

1. It's a medical condition (gender dysphoria), empirical argument
2. It's a psychological condition based on self-perception and emotions.
3. Gender is just a subjective performance (Judith Butler)

Usually all 3 arguments are used together as if they reinforce each other, but each of them contradicts the other two.

>>15365645
It's why hons like contrapoints hate her so much.

This book is okay. It's very good at arguing that children should not transition but overall the book doesn't go far enough since the author is a liberal. Because liberals value individual freedom above all he can't really argue against adults engaging in this sort of degeneracy so he'll just cite the science that says it's biologically impossible for a man to become a woman and vice versa.

This issue and the book actually moved me away from boomer Republicanism to a more illiberal politic.

>>15365651
which of these is "ideology"

If there is a book against transgenderism I don't think any conventional publisher would accept it. People are forbidden from even researching the possibility that people might want to un-transition. Scientists who simply ask "hey, lets figure out who became a tranny and then wanted to undo it when they were older" are attacked as transphobic and shut down. That topic is the ultimate taboo.

>>15365699
Narcissistic personality disorder is a made up nonsense by jealous people who wish they were as pretty as you and with such thick, long hair.

>>15365699
I have a screen captured story from reddit about a person who regrets transitioning but I can't even post it on /lit/ because there's a filter that automatically prevents it from being posted here.

>>15365686
All three of them are.

>>15365407
Define transgender ideology because I'm pretty sure you made that up.

>>15365725
But the real question is why do we need literature to tell us what we already know? Do I need a book to tell me the sky is blue?

>>15365732
The official state ideology of the Transgender party of America.

>>15365732
What is it with people acting as if transgender activists don't exist and that they don't share beliefs and goals? You people are so dishonest.

>>15365728
hmm... they all sound like personal justifications for transitioning, not ideology.

>>15365732
LGBT ideology, queer theory, whatever you want to call it. Its kind of surprising to me that so many people are questioning that trans people even have ideas to explain and justify the condition.

>>15365746
they do, but what is "transgender ideology" ?

>>15365756
The shared beliefs and goals of transgender activists you dumb bastard.

>>15365751
Just ignore them, retard. Do you think those people don't know what they're doing? They do it on purpose. If you live around them you know what this is. Engaging is a waste of time. Go read your books, go to the gym, learn how to fight, build a life for yourself, but be prepared for the day they come knocking on your door.

>>15365769
which are?

>>15365725
Kind of sad but that person was extremely irresponsible, I don't know what else was expected

>>15365785
Whatever you want them to be

>>15365748
Except those explanations are used politically as justifications for positive rights and equal treatment. The point is to convince other people that they should be treated as the gender they identify as. After all I can personally believe whatever I want, I just don't expect people to take me seriously without first justifying what my beliefs are.

>>15365785
Here's a few things, transgender ideology holds that the real self is fundamentally separate from the material body, yet insists that transforming the body is crucial for personal wholeness. It attaches a notion of authentic gender identity to stereotypical activies and dispositions, yet it grows from a philosophy holding that gender is an artificial construct. It promotes a radical subjectivity in which individuals should be free to do whatever they wish and to define the truth as they choose, yet it calls for enforced conformity of belief in transgender dogma.

>>15365810
This is a good point, like most progressive politics there is an unresolved dialectic where an idea is both completely essential, trans women have to really possess womanhood. And at the same time gender is completely arbitrary and subjective.

gender doesn't real, it's just a social construction
...
...
....
muh brain was born in the wrong body!

>>15365849
don't see how this is unresolved. gender is simply the repeated stylization of the body. our present categories are completely socially derived. if someone does not feel like they conform to the rules of that social derivation, by choice or otherwise, then so be it. they can adopt the categorization of the alternate category or reject the framework entirely. not that hard to understand for me.

>I am Napoleon!
>learn French
>buy a big hat
>get leg shortening surgery
>tell everyone "Come, lets conquer Russia!"

>I am a woman!
>learn a lisp
>buy an ill fitting sun dress and a wig
>get dick cutting surgery
>tell everyone "Come, lets conquer the ladies bathroom!"

The guy who thinks he's Napoleon has a mental illness, but the guy who thinks he's a girl does not because reasons and it's 2020 and you're a bigot if you don't play along with the delusion.

>>15365882
>gender is simply the repeated stylization of the body
That's not the definition of gender.

>>15365882
Because if performance theory were true then what makes a woman is just determined by what others think (mostly men). If being a woman comes down to "passing" then there is no such thing as misgendering and trans politics becomes impossible.

What a person personally feels about this is irrelevant, you can't retreat into subjectivism when you are trying to build a movement that is supposed to have political influence.

>>15365973
>If being a woman comes down to "passing" then there is no such thing as misgendering and trans politics becomes impossible.


It does. If you see a picture of me or my face or you see me on the street and you think I'm a woman then guess what, I'm a woman.

>>15365936
learning a lisp: x
learning lisp: o

>>15365987
that's not the paradigm of queer ideology, is it?

>>15365987
Okay but then gender is reduced to stereotypes of how a man or woman "acts". If gender isn't possessed by the subject then transgender grievance is nonexistent.

>>15365407
Are we going to have these unnecessary threads every day?

>>15366053
Whats unnecessary? Just don't post here if you aren't interested.

>>15366080
Trannies are not literature. Baitposting under the guise of asking for books is not literature. It's not even philosophy. It belongs on /pol/ or /b/, not here.

>>15366047
Grievance is a bit of a misnomer. If you are unattractive and get misgendered then you deserve it.

>>15366099
Is Judith Butler literature? It's a thread about the academic and political grounding of gender theory. You think anyone is going to post about that shit on fucking /pol/?

>>15366117
This thread is not about Judith Butler, and the OP posted it in full knowledge of that. Go away.

>>15366106
That's not transgender's most popular ideology, don't be dishonest. Your personal opinion is not what's being argued.

They have a point. Its horrible to be discriminated against, and these trans people are just like the blacks were during the 60s. Its low on reason and logic but has all the rightness in the world. The ideology itself is just as weak as those black liberation or radical feminists but that's what wronged groups tend to do.

>>15366123
It's about Judith Butler and anyone else who writes about this subject. Now you go away.

>>15366146
No it's not. Go back to /leftypol/, /pol/, or whatever other disgusting hole you crawled out of.
>>15366144
Shut the fuck up

>>15365407
the bible

>>15365749
Assuming that actually happened, that's absolutely horrid. I feel awful for that person.

>>15366171
it's his own fault, i don't feel sorry for him.

>>15365407
Dunno about refutation but everything in that category is invalid because its followers don't know their own ideology and thus the ideology is constantly inconsistent/contradictory.

>>15366278
based

>>15365407
the one on the right is a /lil/ tragedy, maybe even a /lit/ horror story. I wouldn't be surprised is he used to post on here

>>15366363
Come on, you know you would.

>>15365419
Medical science that tries to help transgendered people live the best lives. Transphobia tends to make them unhappier

>>15366390
No, how does medical science legitimize transgendered people? Everything else is contingent on that being the case. If they aren't legitimate then transphobia is justified and their best life certainly isn't going to be found in living a lie.

>>15365589
>human rights can be anything other than arbitrary
>"humanity" exists in a meaningful sense beyond the most reductive biological classification
Now this is peak ideology.

>>15365407
CAN YOU FUCK OFF TO /POL/ YOU DEGENERATE VAPID FUCKS. GET A LIFE

>>15365438
because you are an animal
>>15366389
even if that was a girl it would be a very ugly girl

>>15365760

>>15366420
>If I ignore it, maybe it will go away

Enjoy yourself when the shitlib gestapo come knocking will you?

>>15366416
humanity is a social construct

>>15366390
Go back.
>>15366429
Not him, but how does arguing with the enemy on the internet help us prepare?

Any biology book.

>>15365760
:puke: :puke: :puke:

>>15365589
It's simple as that


To this day I am yet to see someone with an solid argument against trans people themselves, all you guys can pull is the "OH NOOO BUT ALL THE CHILDREN ARE HAVING THEIR DICKS CUT OFF"

>>15366441
If you want to think about it like that, understanding how your enemy thinks is useful isn't it?

>>15365407
No cause theyre right and their mere existence makes rightoids seethe.

>>15365589
>basic human rights
you already have that
> to be treated like the gender we identify as
no, gender roles are based on sex. Hence why they use the same terms male and female.
>isn't an ideology.
someone having "rights" is an ideology

>>15366468
I live in enemy territory. Some of my best friends support them. Having to see and hear them on my Malaysian underwater eel shooting forum really just increases my despair. I wish they would go away and leave us all in peace.

>>15366451
You don't get from pure subjectivity to universally recognised human rights. If transgenderism is just an emotional larp then there is no limit to what rights you could demand for yourself, at this point truth is taking a backseat to power. Which is what progressivism is all about.

Refuted over 2000 years ago

>The wealth required by Nature is limited and is easy to procure; but the wealth required by vain ideals extends to infinity.