/lit/ - Literature

What’s the alternative?

>>15355088
Working just enough to cover basic expenses, along with some spare change. Then, spending your time actually living

>>15354916
Because they're propagandised cucks who are beholden to their capitalist masters and fell for their stupid bullshit. I work extremely part time at a place I hang out anyway and get to basically do fuck all when I do work beyond work the till and interact with people I already like. Plus I get a great discount. Feels good, man.

>>15355133
Based. A 9-5 job is pretty much a death sentence. Working 8 hours per day 5 hours a week, how much is that over a lifetime?

>>15355119
Sounds good. Unfortunately with a family that means working full time

>>15354916
Because normalfags just want to fit in with each other so they can have a normal social life with friends, get married and have kids. This require working and buying various useless shit so that they're part of the group.

In the current environment we live in this is completely sensible behavior which is why the majority of people do it, and mostly only defective people question it. The fact that they're getting gamed by various elites who sell them stuff, make them act a certain way, tax them etc. is irrelevant. Some part of their ape brain knows they're powerless and their best bet is just to go along with the flow.

>>15355362
Indeed, the family construct is a means to make docile workers. Kids are expensive, and money is time spent working. By having kids, you effectively lose an even bigger chunk of your life.

>>15355133
>I work extremely part time at a place I hang out anyway
Gay porn shop?

I can't disagree, this is the ultimate blackpill
Working a 9-5 is torture

>>15355410
Hobby store.

>>15355119
>Working just enough to cover basic expenses, along with some spare change
Pretty much the only part-time jobs are minimum wage or not enough hours, so you will not cover basic expenses.

>>15355153
It's worse, because
>you also have to go to and from work
>unpaid mandatory breaks
>not enough time to actually do anything of significance after work
>spend time out of work preparing for work
>2 day weekend is not enough to do a lot of things e.g. go camping or visit another city
>spend sunday dreading monday and preparing for work

essentially saturday is the only truly free day, and of course we are limited by what we can do in a single day

>>15355391
based. my boss literally said he prefers to hire people with kids as they work harder to support them

>>15354916
I'm torn on this. While I appreciate the sentiment, I also think that without a project or tasks to motivate you, its very easy for your brain to simply rot away. I have a comfy job that pays well with flexible hours, but I've been furloughed during lockdown, and I have to admit, I'm starting to feel restless. I've gotten more reading and writing done than I would have, but I miss having a routine and a reason to go outside. Call me a cuck, call me a slave to my capitalist overlords, whatever– unless you have a seriously independent work ethic, its very easy to become dissociated without actual responsibilities to ground you.

>>15355612
>play a sport
>volunteer
>make art
>learn a skill
>do academic research
>hike the length of your country
>exercise
This idea that you need a job for some kind of sanity or routine or stability or purpose is exactly what they want you to think. If you really can't think of a purpose other than working under capitalism then I feel bad for how uninteresting your life must be

>>15354916
Im starting to think Academia might be the only path. You get to work on what you enjoy (more or less), funding, teach, relaxed university setting. It’s seems comfy. It doesnt pay too well, but it’s enough for most. As long as you dont take it too seriously, it looks nice. Startinf a business is something but only if it’s something you’re passionate about. Otherwise, it’s just a job. Idk, I want a family, I love kids, but sacrificing so much of my life like that, I don’t think it’s healthy.

>>15354916
lockdown bonus unemployment gibs have spoiled me. i never want to go back to office cubicle wageslaving.

>>15355698
I agree, I really want to do academia. I'd love to be a professor, I even had a professor comment on an essay this semester and he said he thinks I'd be a very accomplished English major
But everything I hear about it makes it sound impossible to get a decent position anywhere

>>15354916
>Implying human form was not created in order to be used and to "do work"
You aren't going to make it my friend, not in Philosophy nor in life

Your argument is only ostensible. If nobody worked, you would need to provide yourself with everything. Want food? Hunt or grow it. For this, you'll need to make tools. You'll also need to make shelter. The idea is that you provide a specific task very well (your profession) and, in return, receive tasks from other professionals. This way, you get a farmer making food, a builder making houses, etc. instead of having to provide yourself with everything mediocrely. Overall, you save time by working.

lmao the absolute state of zoomers

>>15355801
>NOOOO YOU NEED TO WORK FOR MR. GOLDSTEINBERG

>>15355788
The majority of people possess a slavish nature and can provide for the minority who have an aristocratic disposition.

>>15355788
Except most of the type of work doesn't even exist anymore. How is someone working retail providing a task that's necessary?

>>15355812
You meant "sociopathic disposition" right?

WHY must we work 8 hours a day? it's soul draining and exhausting. technology has seen that one worker is now far more efficient, and the average worker is now far more educated. most office workers spend half their day trying to look busy, their day to day doesn't require 8, they only need to work 8 in a real emergency crunch time situation. why have hours not decreased? 40 was an arbitrary number decided on almost 100 years ago. times have changed.

30 hours is more than sufficient. but pay me for the whole 40.

>>15355828
Why would that be 'sociopathic'?

>>15354916
Unfortunately you're right. It makes me a little sad to see people protesting for their right to be slaves.

>>15355859
>A majority of people should be enslaved to serve the general needs of a nebulous "chosen" few (AKA: me)
Hmmm, What could possibly be sociopathic about that.

>>15355812
>no MOM i don't need to get a job and move out the internet told me i'm an aristocrat

>>15355900
Why should I be made to work if it's not in my nature?

>>15355900
This but unironically. There's nothing more humiliating than wage slavery.

>>15355880
not op, but I'm pretty sure that's aristocratic and not sociopathic. What's sociopathic about it is that the construction of the lie that they have no choice but to work in order to derive happiness from consumption, which is necessitated by the drudgery of work, which necessitates consuming etc ....

>>15354916
There is nothing more cringe than living off the fat of the land. By being a NEET you are freeing up your time, your sense of accomplishment, for instant gratification. And then most NEETS use that instant gratification for useless diversions. Why can't autists grasp this philosophy?

Normies actually like their slavery.

>>15355931
How then do you enforce aforementioned mass slavery? Continuing the lie, or putting a gun to their heads?

>>15355812
This is straight out of Nietzsche and the Vicious Circle. Nice.

>>15355483
You can on part time even on minimum wage, your life is going to be full on poverty if you decide to do it though

>>15355880
Thats how our current system already works anyway

>lockdown proven once and for all that most of the economy is a complete meme
>people still want to go back
Absolutely no hope. This is the end of history whether you like it or not.

The only two choices are to be the working taxpayer to whom everyone owes their cushy lives to, or to be the one who profits off their labor at the top and bottom without giving anything back in return. I would rather be exploited than be involved in something morally reprehensible in this situation.

When automation comes into full swing it's going to get a little bit more complicated, but we're not there yet.

>>15354916
Yes, stop working, don't own any property, live bouncing from one place to another, have friends in multiple different countries, ascend to godlike street smarts and wisdom, have money saved up

>>15355980
So it's ok if you do it, but it's not ok if others do?

>>15355949
It's already going on, it's precisely the masses who continue to accept their fate of work. A better question is: how do the ones who fall outside of that, who are not disposed to work, but aren't already born into wealth, rise above this state and live parasitically off the work of the masses?

>>15355999
Wasn't that guy, just pointing out thats how it already is

>>15355993
>People don't go back to work
>Supply lines and services breakdown entirely
>Mass rioting and violence in the streets
>No more internet and tendies

>>15355918
>>15355919
Like clockwork. You have to be over 18 to post here

>>15355949
It's both. People are told that they have to work for a wage, they go to University only to get in debt so that they can work for a 'living'; even the term is misleading. Then once they're ingratiated into the system they have to work to pay off their debts and accrue further debt in order to pay off a mortgage, if they're lucky, in the other case its a perpetual cycle of rent. The gun is to their heads at this point as to stop working and to cop out would spell death for them, death of their lifestyle and of their 'living'. The only choice left to the wageslave is to continue working and consuming.

>>15355995
I always saw automation as being the cure to wageslavery, at least for those content with living without excess. Surely if all the foundational jobs of society were gone then a universal wage would have to be instilled and we'd enter the next stage of marxism, namely the corporate socialist utopia.

>>15355993
this. Most people spend 40 hours a week doing a 4 hour job, that might or might not be necessary. If you work, you are sacrificing your life to buy Mr. Bossman another yacht. The more money you make, the more you are getting fucked. Any participation in the economy (including buying a computer and internet) is assenting to destroying natural order.

>>15356022
>NOOOOOOOOOO, IT'S NOT FAIR, YOU HAVE TO THROW YOUR LIFE AWAY IN SERVITUDE TO MR.SHEKELSTEIN

>>15356003
This is your fault in logic, the people who "fall outside of that, who are not disposed to work, but aren't already born into wealth" are entrepreneurs who work for themselves and risk their future (of wage slaving) for minor debt and greater future freedom. There are plenty of examples of these people who now lead the tech industry and other sectors of the economy, you just handwave them because you would rather be a parasite and assure your own comfortable, wasted life

>>15354916
UG Krishnamurti was S tier NEET

>>15355483
I have a part time job that pays me well above what a person working minimum wage makes full time. Part time work is the best solution I can think of, plus I get to socialize with people because I have no real friends lol

>>15356022
I'm in my 30s. Been in the work force since I was 15. I speak from experience. You're probably still in your early 20s. Wait til reality hits.

>>15356075
What kind of part time job pays that well? If you don't tell me you're lying.

>>15356068
Being born into wealth is only one advantage, you also have genetic factors, brain makeup and mental predispositions, upbringing type, geographic location, etc.

What about the other side of the story? Why do those that have everything just fall through the cracks or kill themselves? The most smartest, talented, who just walk off and never come back, what did they do exactly to suddenly have a change of heart? Is it mental illness? If so, where did it come from?

What you've been working at home all this time and doing your job fine? Sorry but we're going to need you to do that commute everyday to our soulless office building where you will be confined. please understand.

>>15354916
Just don't work at any job that uses your mind.
Be a janitor and listen to audibooks.
Then your mind is free.

>>15356105
I'm not lying but your clue is Real Life Simulator

>>15356155
Why not just tell me? I don't understand the clue.

>>15356145
In the future the genetically defunct will never be born, genetic engineering and rigorous VR/simulation based education systems will create near perfect human specimens specially tailored to succeed in any given field. We are living in the second Dark Ages, soon we will be free

Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork
And drive the brute off?

Six days of the week it soils
With its sickening poison -
Just for paying a few bills!
That's out of proportion.

Lots of folk live on their wits:
Lecturers, lispers,
Losers, loblolly-men, louts-
They don't end as paupers.

Lots of folk live up lanes
With fires in a bucket,
Eat windfalls and tinned sardines.
They seem to like it.

Their nippers have got bare feet,
Their unspeakable wives
Are skinny as whippets - and yet
No one actually starves.

Ah, were I courageous enough
To shout, Stuff your pension!
But I know, all too well, that's the stuff
That dreams are made on:

For something sufficiently toad-like
Squats in me, too;
Its hunkers are heavy as hard luck,
And cold as snow,

And will never allow me to blarney
My way of getting
The fame and the girl and the money
All at one sitting.

I don't say, one bodies the other
One's spiritual truth;
But I do say it's hard to lose either,
When you have both.

>>15356186
>humans will be designed inside and out for a specific purpose
>humans will be free

>>15355823
They aren't. Destroy capitalism and its bullshit jobs.

>>15356330
>Destroy capitalism

>>15356291
Humans will design themselves, no more excuses

>>15356353
design implies a purpose, purpose implies a destiny, destiny negates free will

>So you were born to feel ‘nice’? Instead of doings things and experiencing them? Don’t you see the plants, the birds, the ants and spiders and bees going about their individual tasks, putting the world in order, as best they can? And you’re not willing to do your job as a human being? Why aren’t you running to do what your nature demands?

Not to work is going to rot your mind.

no, most people barely get by with what they earn

unless you mean 'most' as in 'americans'

>>15356568
Fuck off Marcus, it's easy to have that worldview while being the mightiest man in the world and when your "bee work" is ruling the Empire and not putting together plastic shit in a soulless factory for 40 years.

>>15356719
Also, God only knows how many great men were ruined by the mundane tasks of everyday life that they had to do just to survive. That is brain rotting, for a man of talents, although I dislike that word, will always find work for himself. But it is not necessary "work" that is valued monetarily today.

>>15356719
But, he has an argument. Do you think people work 12h/day because they have a gun in their heads? You're projecting your lack of will to work into the whole world.

>>15356728
Every work is valuable for society. Status is BS

>Not a single book mentioned in the thread yet
Can any anon recommend a book like this that is more recent? I found it fascinating

>>15356930
It seems interesting.

>>15355954
based Klossowski living in his giant French chateau spewing diarrhea on the peasant village below

>>15356059
destroying the natural order? Isn't self organizing hierarchy as a compulsive behavior about as natural as it gets

>>15355812
Evola would agree

>>15355846
A 3 day work week would even be enough for many jobs. Or hell spread it out 3 hours 6 days a week whatever. The point is were wasting 50+ hours a week on meaningless work

>>15358964
Tell that to garbage collectors and doctors LMAO

>>15354916
You trade your time for money. Money than can be traded for others time. The alternative is bartering for every good. If you take a trip to sub-saharan Africa you can get a taste for such an economy. Hopefully you'll like it and stay.

>>15359065
I value my time more than money

>>15359075
What do you do with your time? (other than shitposting on 4chan of course)

>>15359016
Fuck them they have shitty jobs. Ive got a comfy accountant job that doesnt require more than 2 hours a day of work and maybe one day a week of grind. Beyond that my boss can get fuked im gonna play runescape

>>15359079
What I choose to, that's the point

>>15359088
Oh so you work a pretend "job" where you spend more time shitting than actually working and you feel like you make the world turn? LMAO

>>15359097
the world turns by itself

>>15355565
While I can agree with a lot, I certainly don't spend my days off "dreading work" I don't dread anything.
I have a decent job, and I understand all the usual critiques, but personally I don't think working a 40 hour a week job (provided you can actually live off the wage) is that bad, especially when the alternative is farming for 16 hours a day or being a slave to your utopia.
Its hard to grasp, but there are enough hours in a week to work a 40 hour job, a 60 hour job, get 8 hours of sleep every night, and still have time left over. It may not be easy, but its still true that we all have the same 24 hours in a day.

>>15359138
I work 8 hours a day at my job
Add my lunch I work 9 hours
Add commute time I work 10 hours

Fuck you

Anons this is off topic but im having a crisis rn. I moved to a 60k town in MS where there aint shit happening. Im 22 and work there and live at my parents home. Originally from nola. Should i move back? Theres so much more to do here and i love the culture. All my friends are in nola and i dont know anyone in MS. However i hate the niggers and crowding. Im so conflicted bros. Plz advice

>>15359154
Still leaves you 6 hours a day without even cutting into your sleep. Not including anything that you could be doing during your commute or on your break. Not even including your two days off.
Think about how much you could accomplish in just three or four of those six hours each day. Or maybe don't think about it, if its only going to upset you.
Perhaps lay off the soda pop and you'd have more energy to find a better job or enjoy your time instead of bitching about your lack of it.

>>15359165
Why did you move in the first place?

>>15359173
slave cope

>>15359173
Nigga I can't go climbing in 6 hours, I can't spend my money meaningfully in 6 hours, I can't leave this shithole state in 6 hours and be back in time to be cucked for another 10 hours. Sure, let me listen to audio books and podcasts in my commute so I can cope with the fact that nothing I learn will change the fact that I've just shit 10 more hours of my life down the drain. Have fun trying to build meaningful relationships 2 out of 7 days a week.

>>15359179
You're free to use your time too bobo

>>15359186
Sounds like a lot of complaints, if you would like a better position in life, you can get it, and if you have a job worth having, take two personal days and go climbing, just don't be the dude who bores his coworkers with the story.

>>15359178
Because my family left. Id rather be with them

>>15359197
How long you been in MA? I'd suggest spend the next couple months really trying to find people and enjoy stuff (kinda hard with the lockdown but I think that'll be over with soon) you seem gregarious enough to be able to, and if you absolutely can't get into the groove, try to save up some money those months and make a lateral move back. Of course its hard to take your own advice.
But family is the most important thing, if you like being with them then maybe thats your answer.

>>15359195
Here we have a man who cannot and would not let go of his slavery.

“How ya gonna make money there, champ? Haha that definitely wasn’t something these people haven’t thought of...”

There was a time when you could build a log house in the woods and plant veggies and keep a chicken in a cage. That’s now so expensive to start, it’s basically illegal. Actually it’s fully illegal if you try to do it in the open empty wilderness

>>15359215
I'm certainly not saying that you have to be tethered to some job. You can just as quickly start a business or become an executive or administrator, or even a supervisor, and soon not have to worry about money and move into the woods if you so choose. Yet we both know that's not going to happen.
Like I said, the alternative is farming for 16 hours a day. You really think you can take a week off to go climbing a mountain if you have to maintain vegetables and livestock?

>>15359235
Farmers don't even work that much anymore with automation. You're just a common-souled slave, anon. You can't imagine a better reality because you were designed for a shit one.

Libshits mad that people wanting to kids and nice jobs but being unable to do either is 100% the fault of liberal policies and anti-collectivist propaganda pushed by the massive corporations they pretend to despise

>>15359215
(((Property taxes)))

NOOOOOO, NOOOOOO
THAT CAN'T BE TRUE, THAT MEANS MY WHOLE LIFE IS FOR NOTHING
FROM THE DAY I WAS BORN I ONLY GOT OUT OF BED SO MY MOMMY WOULD TELL ME I DID A GOOD JOB
AAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHH
IF I'M NOT WORKING THEN I'M CONFRONTED WITH THE REALITY THAT I HAVE NO WILL OF MY OWN AND ANY AMBITION OR DRIVE FOR SOMETHING GREATER HAS ATROPHIED TO NOTHING
NOOOOOOOOO
ANYTHING BUT THAT, WORST FEEL

>>15355088
Step 1: have autism
Step 2: collect welfare

That should be enough to cover food, shelter and an internet connection.

>>15355788
Many jobs today are completely worthless. With all due respect, that argument is moot.

>>15356930

you fucking children need communism I stg

>>15355932
>your sense of accomplishment
>pretending to be productive for 8 hours = sense of accomplishment

>>15354916

>>15359173
Sad sad cope

>>15359186
>Have fun trying to build meaningful relationships 2 out of 7 days a week.
and yet, most people manage to do exactly that

>>15355391
>Huuurrr duuuurrr. fumly is a trap.
You fucking slag, family is free labor, get out of the fucking communist housing projects and get some dirt under your nails. The home is what is supposed to cover what you refer to as "basic expenses", You get food, medicine, water and fuel from the land. If you cant do that at home you must slave cause that's what you are.

>>15359509
lol i knew this was coming. you little turds are so predictable
now post the one with the "neet" and the "wagie" and the times of the day

>“And so when you see a man often wearing the robe of office, when you see one whose name is famous in the Forum, do not envy him; those things are bought at the price of life. They will waste all their years, in order that they may have one year reckoned by their name.”

>>15359563
Not him but that pic has sex in it (which NEETs have a lot of time for) so I'm not posting it

>>15359622
>sex in it (which NEETs have a lot of time for)
but not involving other people

>>15359660
>you turds are predictable
>have sex!
Nice arguments buko. Now go shitpost somewhere else

I wouldn't mind working for a couple of hours every morning but 8+ hours is a joke

>>15359846
There's evidence that humans can't maintain focus on a task for longer than 25 minutes. Obviously there's variables, but 8 hours is a big joke

>>15355686
>partake in endeavours or leisure that are only possible by having a society of people who work

>>15359936
>criticizing the current structure of work means you're against all work
Yes working is necessary, but the amount and what jobs needs to be done can change.

>>15360034
and it is doing so, and has been doing so for the past few decades

>>15355391
>y having kids, you effectively lose an even bigger chunk of your life
This is how leftists view children and family. This is why they have no problem getting involved in polygamous relationships and beating up little children.

>>15359846
People think 40 hours a week is natural law.
I was talking to a couple of coworkers about how our perfect workweek would look like. Some people said 8*5 was fine, others hypothesized about 10*4 or even 20*2.
I said 6 hours a day would be a start and 6 hours a day 4 times a week would be closer to what I'd prefer and they looked at me as if I had no head.

And people also can't wrap their heads around that 6 hour workdays should be paid the same amount as 8 hour days now.

>>15355565
>>you also have to go to and from work
I work from home most of the time
>>unpaid mandatory breaks
No such thing
>>not enough time to actually do anything of significance after work
Simply not true, I have about 10 hours each day to do as I please, not to mention all the shitposting and reading I get done during work
>>spend time out of work preparing for work
Do you mean cooking food? Even if I didn't work, I'd still have to cook food, you know
>>2 day weekend is not enough to do a lot of things e.g. go camping or visit another city
That's why we get "ATK" so we can take fridays off and not lose any pay
>>spend sunday dreading monday and preparing for work
This is only true if you're a pathetic loser stuck in a shit job you truly hate

No wonder this board swings so much to the left when 99% of the posters here are underage faggots living in mommy's basement.

>>15360073
>And people also can't wrap their heads around that 6 hour workdays should be paid the same amount as 8 hour days now.
>WHY CAN'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND I JUST WANT MONEY WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING IT'S A GREAT IDEA WHY AREN'T YOU ALL LISTENING TO ME PLEASE HELLO GIVE ME MONEY

Candy-ass faggot

>>15360099
Yes, less money for the shareholders, more for us, cuckold.

>>15360099
Retard

>>15360089
>unpaid mandatory breaks
>No such thing

Objectively wrong. Just because that isn't the case for your job/country doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Every job i have ever had has forced me to take a break even if i'd rather not take it and just go home early or something.

>>15360089
Cringe and slave-pilled post. No hope for you.

>>15360107
>shareholders don't like it and move production overseas
What now, you jobless cuckold loser

>>15360112
Your mom is a walking toilet for niggers

>>15360113
Sucks to be a low-skilled loser like you then

>>15360120
Extremely slavepilled.

>>15360120
Cringe, anon. Your slavish soul is showing.

>>15360124
>>15360132
>>15360117
>>15360112
>>15360107
>>15360113
OH NO NO NO AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Literally no hope for your soul if you defend 8 hour workdays

>>15360137

>>15360145
>implying anyone with half a brain actually works more than 50% of the time during their 8 hour days
Yep, that is how I know you're probably a barista living in mom's basement

>>15360157
And you support having to pretend to work for hours every day because...

>>15360157
That's why 8 hour days are dumb you absolute retard. Why should i be chained to a building for 8 hours if my work doesn't take that long?

>why yes i do enjoy spending my days in a soulless office
You decorated you one bedroom flat to match this aesthetic you bugman?

>>15360157
So you admit it's pointless? Absolute slave lmao

>>15360166
>>15360168
>>15360171
Because most of you have shit jobs where it's not possible to do what I do, work home and take it easy. It would be devastating for the economy should losers like you decrease your already low productivity.

>>15360099
You might do less time but still be as productive or maybe even more so. Most jobs do not have people working 100% those whole hours and even if they do people slack because you can't be productive for that long day in day out.

>>15360197
Low IQ and slavish take. You don't even understand the premise behind reducing the work day.

>>15360113
sure "mandatory breaks" exist. i worked for a while for a company that makes electrical panels. there was a mandated "tea break" every 90 minutes, I think. the staff had fought hard for it.
"unpaid"? maybe if you're paid by the hour. otherwise the time is simply part of your salary

>>15360089
>I work from home most of the time
same here, except when i'm working on a customer site. one of the side effects of coronavirus seems to be that more people will do the same. i think this is a good thing overall.

ITT: seething faggots with shit jobs getting reamed up the ass by their bosses
Hilarious

>>15360265
I have a cushy job where I could get away with working 2 hours a day from home right now if I wanted, and I still want people with "shit jobs" to have better working conditions and lesser working hours. What is your problem?

>>15360275
>I have a cushy job where I could get away with working 2 hours a day from home right now if I wanted,
Sure you do. Now bring me that coffee or you're not getting any tips.

>>15360265
ITT: slaves

I got treated like crap at my old job and I just walked out when things were really busy, it was hilarious hearing about how pissed my manager was

>>15360309
>tips.
Ah, a yankaloid. That explains the freakish slave mentality.

>>15360309
>coffee
Capitalist productivity drug for bug people. Slave detected.

>>15360330
Not the only country with retarded customs

>>15355088
Anything else is an alternative when you realize it
You are conditioned to believe this is how you should live and what you should aspire to, but in the end you are just trading your freedom away

>>15355386
All of this happens because the spectacle became our all encompassing filter
There is no possible way today to live in a normal society and interact with people in an authentic way without the meddling of the spectacle
We no longer form human bonds that are true and consensual from peer to peer, there is always a mediation that conditions us and we will never be able to resist it because we are social animals

>>15360365
so fucking DEEP

>>15356155
what are you saying retard

>>15359173
you realise how little 6 hours is right? especially when you are lethargic from working? and that is until you retire?

>>15356059
It is literslly impossible to do a week's work in 4 hours if you're manufacturing something.

>>15355686
>is exactly what they want you to think
This is the same argument that feminists make when they tell trad wives that they've come to love their own repression. I'm not saying "work" or employment is necessary, just a project to work towards. I think living aimlessly because you think achievable targets are a form of "capitalist oppression" is dumb, by living your life entirely in opposition to that idea you're still letting capitalism dictate what you do (or, rather, don't do), albeit in a negative form. The same way incels who swear off women for life means that their lives are organised entirely around (the absence of) women.

>>15355391
>the family construct
you are posing that the family unit is artificial?

Being laid off from work because of corona has been amazing so far. Sucks when I have to be a wageslave again

it's hilarious hearing lectures on hard work and personal responsibility from fucking muppets who need a full-time job to feel satisfied with how they spend their day

>>15354916
>Why can't normals grasp this philosophy?
Because they are trapped into thinking that the latest Iphone or S. Galaxy is absolutely necessary for their survival. It's basically this.
In post Capitalism we won't work much. Perhaps 3-4 hours a day.

>>15359173
mankind isn't a damned MACHINE which needs to spend every waking moment working like a plough-horse you boot licking boomer.
OMG I LOVE MY SLAVERY SLURPI SPURPPPO SLURUOOOPPPPPPP SCHLOPP PLS MASSAH MORE

>>15359318
Sounds like just a different kind of misery desu

>>15360365
While I agree with you I think social consensus, the opinion of others around you, always mediated your relationships in a similar way. Now instead of the tribe or town or city it's the amorphous spectacle. Definitely a deterioration but not entirely different.

Also it is not totally impossible to reject it, people do to varying degrees, living sort of on the fringes.

>>15359936
Most of the human work in late stage Capitalism is superfluous. Do we need something like 800 differents shoes models on the market, the same amount of wrist watches, hundred of different car, a whole food industry which make toxic food but employs a lot of workforce which could be used for something else, the entire pharmaceutical industry is a hoax which makes poison. Okay, some work is essential, like the workers of a power station, agriculture. But most of the work done is superfluous and is dictated by the mode of production, Capitalism, in order to make more profit. People are brainwashed by propaganda to believe they need the latest smartphone or smart watch, so these thing have to be built, and cost human work, when in reality, we give up our life to have useless stuff. Like the famous quote from fight club: "working jobs we don't like, so we can buy things we don't need".

>>15359846
seriously. when i work i spend half my day fucking around trying to pass the time becoming more bitter and miserable by the minute. we could all just cut the pretenses, be honest for once in our miserable pathetic lives, and admit modern work really does not require 8 hours a day.

let's say you're a butcher in 1900 working 8 hours a day. you're actually spending half the time relaxing or moving between tasks, or doing side work like inspecting the shop or making sure the area is secure. let's say you're a hunter in 3500 BC. most of your "work day" is walking around in nature, or relaxing and waiting for prey to fall into your trap. even blue collar in current year, they spend 1/4 the time working and 3/4 on preparation, cleanup, relaxing, or shooting the shit. the "work" is not constant. in 2020? you are chained to a computer and expected to work like a hamster on a wheel without pause every single MINUTE of that time. as soon as you finish one thing it's on to the next. not even so much is expected of a slave.
>>15360073
they're lemmings without life, mind, joy, or ambition.
>>15360099
found the boomer

you probably think japs are the peak of mankind, spending 6 AM to 3 AM in the office, sleeping under their desk, accomplishing an entire 3 hours of work in that whole time, the rest spent trying desperately to look busy so the boss thinks they're "hard-working and dedicated". OH BOSS-MAN PRS GIVE PLOMOTION. ME WORK SO HARD, ME NOT SEE FAMILY IN 8 YEARS. ME NOT EVEN SLEEP IN OWN BED IN PAST 2 WEEKS.
you'd fucking love that, huh? why aren't you working in jap-land as salaryman? huh, you candy-ass?
>>15360328
lmao. i've done that THREE times. oh, you want to try and screw me? oh, it's busy season? have fun with that. all they had to do was be civil with me and fulfill their end of the deal, just carry through on their own promises to me. but bosses think they have the right to screw you over as they please. nah. i don't even make that much and i still save 30%+ of every paycheck because my cost of living is impossibly low. try that shit with me and i'll leave a nice present in your system before walking out. delete all my work, grab my shit, and walk.

they could just NOT try to kike me, but no.

>>15355993
The harsh truth is that even with all their material needs and desires satisfied many or even most people lack any self-directed purpose and need work to structure and fill up their time. A vicious damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario ensues. To even satisfy the premises of finding a self-directed purpose for most things you need at minimum money enough to sustain yourself and fund the goal's requirements, but if you work you'll have the money but not the time to do it. If you don't work you'll have the time but not the money. Living as a NEET that manages to game the system to sustain a viable existence without working doesn't solve the problem either, because your options are still drastically limited as a NEET and there's nothing stoping you from wasting your days to fill the void.

It's a miserable and hateful dilemma, the solution of which basically comes down to "don't be poor." Most people are poor, however, and must work to sustain themselves. The end result is the alienation of labor and the fact most people pass their lives working for the profit of a select elite.

>>15362951
NATIONAL PROJECTS
THE GREAT PYRAMIDS OF IDAHO COMING TO YOU, VOTE ANON 2020

I'm surprised nobody has done the math. Assuming a 9-5 for 5 days per week, for 36 years of work, that's 8.4 years of life lost. There's obviously a lot of other factors, sleep and transportation is not accounted. Nor is lethargy from work

>>15360328
Same. I worked in retail. This passive aggressive 5'6 gook manager would run up to me and start interrogating me like he was some fucking police officer, about what i was doing and what's going on in my department. I walked out in the middle of a work day while he runs after me, I tell him I'm done and he says "perfect" as I walk out. Haven't worked since, fuck working

>>15360137
What a dumb statistic
Maybe they can't move out because the economy is fucked?

>wake up at 6am
>get ready for work
>drive to work, takes forever cause of traffic
>get to work
>barely work, have stuff to do for maybe 25%
>have to endure the dumb bitches and fags gossip and talk about the latest marvel movie
>Do nothing but still tired
>get off work
>Takes forever to get home
>Go to the gym if I'm not too tired
>Eat dinner
>Browse 4chan because I'm too tired to do anything esle
>Dread tomorrow
>Read
Sleep

>>15359549
>The well-documented hell of contemporary interpersonal relationships
>In any way meaningful

>>15355769
If you're still an undergraduate, I would definitely recommend working towards a teaching position, but if you aren't on track to achieve a position by the end of your Masters, it's more than likely a lost cause.

>>15363310
Just started on my real course work last semester. I have a high GPA
>but if you aren't on track to achieve a position by the end of your Masters, it's more than likely a lost cause.
How to get on track?

>>15363235
>tfw
i despise it. i hate it. i hate it!!!!
and normalfags apparently love it because they think their coworkers are their "friends".

>>15363386
>normalfags apparently love it because they think their coworkers are their "friends".
You can thank the office and parks and rec for that

>>15363386
one time I just stopped pretending the people I worked with at some retailcuck job were my friends since I could tell behind the façade they could still pick up on my inferior beta soul in really subtle ways so I dropped the act and it made them really uncomfortable. there's just a kind of obliviousness that comes with healthy bodies that these jobs lock into I could never be a part of.

>>15363386
What’s wrong with befriending a coslave?

>>15363489
It's the machine... it's the mechanisms of modern society that you're tapping into... something larger is out there pulling the strings... and it's not God.

>>15359173
this is the burger brain. observe and pity it.

>one(1) shot at life
>not born with a large enough inheritance to live off interest or other passive income for the rest of your life
jdimsa

>>15360137
amazing argument, I want to work 12 hours a day now!

>>15359846
isn't it something like how after four hours of working you get diminishing returns? doesn't matter what kind of job it is either? the capitalist class really has us fucking cucked and tired.

>>15363989
I anecdotally think that's nonsense. I guess it's possible that it's true on average, especially since most people dont really care about their jobs

>>15360334
I bet you're one of those people that think people can't enjoy alcohol for the flavor.

>>15364008
with good reason

>>15364054
no doubt, there's no reason to exhaust yourself given the circumstances. I just don't think that we randomly shut off after 4 hours, or even significantly deteriorate that much.

>>15364008
>I think that's nonsense
>I guess it's possible
>especially since

>>15362573
Says the prisoner to the warden.

>>15355119
You’re still working and probably working full-time to do this. The problem was never work but work for its own sake.

>>15362634
based

Imagine being a wageslave

I recently got 10k from my mother’s disability (she was approved but died before they could issue it to her, so it goes to me).

Just settled with a 40acre farm in the middle of the woods with no town to allow me to pitch a large yurt on the empty side of their land. $300/month, no work required, but I’m free to help pitch in for some farm produce/dairy/eggs/meat.

Already got my gear, completely zero-waste and solar powered. Cost me $3,000. $1200 of which was from the stimulus payment. Will be enjoying the wild woods with all my new books and my dog to keep my company.

Enjoy the slavery everyone. Remember, it’s free to camp on BLM land if you move every 72 hours or so

One of the worst things is how most jobs have no variety either. So not only will you be having to work for someone else everyday, you will be having to do the same shit every day like some Sisyphean nightmare.

>>15364111
please talk more, I got a couple thou saved up

I work 35 hours per week often remote. It’s a low stress environment that covers all my benefits and affords me enough salary to cover my expenses with some change left over. I put in very little effort and If I never leave this job I’ll reach $100k within 10 years. I still want to kill myself.

>>15364111
based trips of freedom. lawdy the feelings posts like this can still stir in me, especially around summertime.

we're gonna make it bros

>>15364111
Based.

>>15364116
Well you can buy a 20’ yurt for around $600, which is waterproof and allows enough room for bed (I’m doing an self-inflating sleeping pad with sleeping bag and army blankets) and you can get a foldable pack of solar panels (folds into a laptop sized bag) for around $200.

The trick is to get a barrel for collecting rainwater, a smaller container with a handle for collecting water from the nearest stream/river/waterfall. Then you want to stock up on squeeze filters to clean the water (wild water is cleaner than your tap, honestly). The only light you need is a rechargeable (never buy anything powered by batteries) lantern, and a rechargeable headlamp. Make sure to get a foldable wagon for collecting firewood, as well as a foldable curved saw and a hatchet for cutting the firewood off dead trees.

Spend about $200 on a wood burning stove (make sure your yurt has a hole for this) which will keep your tent warm, as well as allow you to cook with cast irons on the top.

Buy a washboard, a wringer, and a metal basin for your clothes. You can heat the water on top of your stove and wash them by hand. Dry them via air drying with a rope tied between two large sticks in the ground.

Get a fishing pole for fish, some snare traps for small game, a bike to ride into town for some groceries if you don’t want to hunt, and chicken wire to keep your small plot of veggies away from animals. You can buy a giant seed pack on amazon for $50 that has all the produce you’d need to be nutritionally complete.

There’s other stuff but you can figure it out with common sense.

>>15364186
Forgot pic of where I’ll be living next month

Guys, I get wageslaving sucks, but how can I avoid it and have a family? i really want a family. I have great relations with my parents and extended senpai, and it’s one of the most meaningful things in my life. Having children is one of my dreams but I dont want to wageslave. Is it possible?

>>15354916
boring reactionary moralism. communism is the true answer

>>15364186
>>15364216
living the dream anon

summoning that off the grid anon from a previous thread so you two can keep eachother company

>>15364254
You could do your best to come up with independent streams of income, start a business, etc. but unfortunately, I don’t know of any alternatives to wage slaving if you’re starting from nothing. There’s things out there which are a lot more tolerable than corporate hell and which can support a family too btw.

>>15364260
based

>>15364254
Buy a small plot of land for a few grand in Arizona or the Dakotas. Start small with rabbits and chickens, some pigs. Grow produce. Do this with your gf for awhile until you both can stop commuting to your small jobs in the nearest town. Have the kids when you’re both ready to be self sustainable.

>>15364111
I fantasize about doing something like all the time, but it seems untenable unless you already have some outdoor experience. I was unlucky enough to have been born and raised in an urban environment, if I tried to do what you're doing on my own I'd end up like the Into the Wild guy.
Good luck to you, though.

>>15364290
That might have been me. Did he post a long list of books?

>>15364307
His mistake was he was genuinely retarded. He died a few miles from civilization and refused to read up on how to do this sort of living. He literally could have walked a short while to a self crank trolley on tracks. Not to mention the guy who dropped him off offered to buy him supplies and he was a shithead bourgeois liberal college cuck and decided he knew better because was FREEEEEE. You can be better than him. Just try.

You can do it with proper research and practicing for a few days at a time while you camp in dispersed areas.

>>15355088
Anarcho-primitivism. Spend 4 hours each day to hunt, pick and prepare food that grows everywhere and the rest of the day enjoying life, chilling, playing with your tribe and having sex

>>15364153
What is this art style called? Solarwave?

>>15364353
Hyperborean Realism

It’s made by Dragos Kalajic

>>15359088
based, slayer level?

>>15355119
What exactly does actually living entail? I’ve been into the early retirement shit for awhile and have saved up a decent amount (for me) over 2 years. But it does dawn on me sometimes that I’m not exactly sure what even comes after working.

>>15355391
the anti-humanism of the millennials and zoomers is so fucking bleak. You are choosing to forgo a massive part of the human experience that makes life worth living in order to what? Masturbate and save up enough money to "travel?" What the fuck are you doing with your time that's so valuable as to supersede creating a family? There's no way your using it to make worthwhile art or achieve anything truly meaningful, I guarantee it.

>>15366078
sounds like you need a family to fill a void.

>>15364186
how do you get internet?

the lack of revolutionary imagination in this thread is truly depressing

>>15366140
Why would I want internet?

That being said I’ve preloaded my laptop with >500gb of music and podcasts, but chose not to bring movies or TV.

>>15366197
I thought you were actively, boots-on-the-ground, posting from -undisclosed farm location-
You will turn craazy my nigga keep us posted

>>15366156
this isn't the scifi/fantasy thread

>>15363516
+1
But we are on /lit, they won't get it.

>>15364260
>>15364292
Abolition of private property of the means of production, of the State, of hierarchy (delegation of power), of money, of exchange value, and of course of wage labor. Destroy the machine.

>>15366300
I find it telling that communists always use the language of destruction, 'smash, abolish, destroy', and never talk about building anything. They're never like 'we the workers will set about taking over this company and be prosperous', it's all 'eat the rich'

>>15366078
You’re right and I think in time, zoomers will come to understand why exactly people forgo financial freedom for the sake of starting families. The same has happened to many millenials in this board who grew up edgy watching South Park and were so anti-authoritarian and now half are unironic fascists and born again Christians.

>>15366156
Practical advice is more valuable right now

>>15366311
What are capitalists building, if I may ask? What shining monuments to the spirit dot our horizons? What towers of gold?

>>15355999
He's saying it's okay for whoever can do it. You're the one drawing a moral line (assuming you're the person he's responding to).

>>15359093
I was on your side, but I can tell by your answer here that you're probably not using your time well. Sad...

>>15366311
What's wrong with destoying something (Capitalism) that destroys humanity? If there was things valuable in Capitalism we would know it by now. Everything in Capitlaism is shit. medicine, health, food, work, agriculture, everything. No retard, it's not about "eat the rich". It's about abolishing both the rich and the poor.

>>15366322
Except zoomer truly have no future.

>>15363516
MOLOCH

>>15366078
Can confirm traveling is a meme for women who want to make it look like their life is interesting on Instagram. I traveled for a year and everywhere you go, people are busy living their lives, not free to entertain you with the idiosyncrasies of their “culture.” The whole time I felt myself wanting to return to sunny Commiefornia to start a family in this glorious mess of a state.

>>15366616
Kys. Capitalism is the incentive to make improvements in the things you listed retard. Who would care to bother fixing coronavirus if there weren’t money in it?

>>15366818
>only money can incentivize me to care

A system for sociopaths, run by sociopaths. How generous of you.

>>15364344
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE
The neighboring tribe has this dude in it and all your women go over and stay in his cool house.
What now?

>>15366842
>I’m only motivated by altruism

I wish this could be true, anon, but it’s just not. Take it from someone who was “too nice” in his early 20s. You get resentful when you do nice things for others and don’t get any reward other than “thanks!”

>>15366900
Doing things for others expecting a reward is not altruist, even moreso if you get resentful.

>>15366900
Males will reciprocate. Take the homopill.

>>15366907
And you? Are you the second coming of Christ? Are you a pure altruist? As far as I can tell one of the flaws of human beings is that it is impossible to be a true altruist. You need to put your interests above those of others in order to survive.

>>15355133
You sound too young to be making posts on this website

>>15366900
>kindness isn't reciprocated in a hyper-darwinist system, so we must build a hyper-darwinist system

Seems awfully circular.

>>15366928
I'm not arguing either for or against altruist. It's just that just a silly counter-argument for altruism such as 'I was an altruist once and it didn't work even though I wasn't altruistic at all' is inadequate.

>You need to put your interests above those of others in order to survive.
Cringe.

>>15366818
>Who would care to bother fixing coronavirus if there weren’t money in it?
Holy shit you are dumb. It's been a while since i've seen this kind of dumb who wasn't a paid shill on this board.
For your information dumb fuck, Capitalism medicine, which is allopathic medicine, based on profit, based around the germ theory (sell vaccines, sell pills), is entirely fake.
True health rely on a holistic approach.

>>15366958
Basically this.

>oh gee oh wow capitalism solves the problems it creates... for a price
>be grateful

You need a world-eating machine to combat a flu bug lol. Please.

>>15366795
Ah well, you live in a pretty interesting place yourself, don't you! Not everyone who travels does.

>>15366943
Dawg I’m not trying to put out an edgy teen Scarface-like worldview. It just seems to me Capitalism is a necessary structure since it is a natural fit with human nature. My understanding of human nature is only based on my own experience and the very limited amount of literature I’ve read, which is pale in comparison to all ideas that have ever existed, obviously. What I’m trying to understand is that, while people hate capitalism since it is inherently ruthless, what is the opposite and/or better? An altruistically strictured system? It just doesn’t seem possible.

>>15366241
Wrong. I’ve lived in the wild before. Also there’s a family of people living on the 40 acres at their farm.

I can still ride my bike 8 miles to the nearest town. Plus I have friends who will visit, and I’ve spent most of my life since childhood being completely alone with no contact. This won’t bug me at all.

Living in the city working pointless jobs drives me crazy

>>15366982
>le default economic condition meme

Bruh no it isn't, read up on the history of free markets, so much legislation and political maneuvering had to take place for free markets (along with the movement away from gold-backed currency, the free flow of labor, etc. basically the economic blueprint of modernity itself) to even be economically viable in the 17th century, stop it with this meme

>>15366958
You’re right, the decreased infant mortality rate and increased life expectancy levels of the last century are totally unrelated in advances in modern medicine.

>but muh opioid crisis and the evil shill doctors

Yeah it’s obviously not perfect, and yes, holistic is better than treating only symptoms. I agree with that. But holistic and treating symptoms are not mutually exclusive.

>>15367030
Which themselves produce further problems, like how to feed all these extra mouths.

>>15366982
>It just seems to me Capitalism is a necessary structure since it is a natural fit with human nature
Human nature differs according to the mode of production. What Feuerbach and then Marx call the "species being", is not the same in primitive communism, roman slavery, feudalism, and Capitalism.
The illusion is to think humans are particularly greedy because you see human throught the lens of the Capitalistic mode of production. Change the mode of production for a better and classless one, and they'll behave less egoistically. In a mode of production which favor hierarchy, greediness, and individualistic behavior, it's only normal that you get those types of individuals. Base supersede superstructure.

>>15367030
>You’re right, the decreased infant mortality rate and increased life expectancy levels of the last century are totally unrelated in advances in modern medicine.
It's due to hygiene. Not allopathic medicine. Factory working in the 19th century and overcrowded small, tiny, and dirty working class appartment was the main cause of epidemics. Which were lower before the industrial revolution by the way.

>>15362634
>let's say you're a butcher in 1900 working 8 hours a day. you're actually spending half the time relaxing or moving between tasks, or doing side work like inspecting the shop or making sure the area is secure. let's say you're a hunter in 3500 BC. most of your "work day" is walking around in nature, or relaxing and waiting for prey to fall into your trap. even blue collar in current year, they spend 1/4 the time working and 3/4 on preparation, cleanup, relaxing, or shooting the shit. the "work" is not constant. in 2020? you are chained to a computer and expected to work like a hamster on a wheel without pause every single MINUTE of that time. as soon as you finish one thing it's on to the next. not even so much is expected of a slave.

This is a true philosophical position and view to take of history, but I think that's because it only grasps half of the matter - it misses that half where hard, consistent work fits in in life.

>>15355119
That's still full time. The only difference is that your time spent working is going to be far less bearable and you are going to have less money, therefore being more dependent on your current employer.
The correct path is to developed and make use of a skill you enjoy and profit from it.

>>15367138
*brain short-circuited and forgot to post rest of post, it's so late for me

You say your entire 8 hr. day is spent trying to waste time as best you can, and I can see that, but there are plenty of jobs that require you to actually work all the time, just think of the Amazon warehouse workers (I know they're an extreme, but you think most menial labour isn't some high combination of mind-numbingness + difficulty?)

Learning how to become a better person and master the process of work is the other half of the equation, and, ideally, in life there would be alternations between hard work for longer periods, interspersed around arbitrary periods of leisure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytOVa1IYLf0

>>15367053
based
it astounds me the proponents of capitalism fail to understand this
it also astounds be people believe there is a fundamental human nature

>>15366889
hahahahaahahahahahahhaahahah

how will primitivist ever recover ?

NEETdom- sounds good in theory, doesn't work in practice.

>>15359509
>i am silly

>>15359509
>who cares what society says???
Your reality, where you go, who you get along with, the things you can and can't do are all dictated by how society perceives you, fucking ingrate, and no one wants to be friends, fuck, or network with an insufferable jobless psuedo intellectual faggot.

>>15354916
Working is a source of meaning, especially if you're in a profession. We were meant to work, keep in mind. We're not meant to work however very specialized, meaningless, mind-numbing work.

>>15368234
>I want to be loved and validated by others

>>15354916
>And most people then trade that money for useless things

That's so different from not working and not being able to trade anything, therefore having nothing.

>>15359509
>edits jews and jewish to rich and capitalist
>ripping off /pol/ for memes
in case you needed any more proof commies are completely devoid of originality and creativity

>>15354916
268 posts and no Bob Black?

>>15369414
>dude just play more lmao

>>15354916
most people I know work because unemployment makes them go crazy

>>15366934
I'm 29. Get shit on, wagecuck.

>>15360365
>There is no possible way today to live in a normal society and interact with people in an authentic way
For you

>>15367190
nooooooooo human nature exists look around you in our [society]!!!!!!!!!!!

>>15370294
>>15367190

I never could wrap my head around this idea; how is human nature not a thing? Don't we all have a shared basic animalistic instinctive and unconscious nature?

>>15355993
People have no choice, but to go back. Don't be a doom posting dumb-ass.

>>15370961
the capitalists made it that way

>gives trillions to businesses

I wouldn't mind work if it was more laid back and less slave whipping spiritual bdsm

>>15370976
Even more painful is the fact that it makes complete sense. If these companies don't get saved, millions of labourers will end up unemployed. It's a fucking trap, companies, especially the biggest ones have complete control over government decisions, consumers and their needs, their employers.

We are so fucking doomed

I just want to be good at something ;-;

>>15371013
You should work on a farm or as a caretaker. Comfy af.

I like how /lit/ pretends to be smart but unironically thinks that humanity can survive with 99% of people NEETing.

>>15354916
I utterly fucking hate people like you and people like you.

>>15355088
autism bucks

>>15366612
makes makes you think you can judge for others whether they use their time well or not? what does "using your time well" even mean?

>>15355698
What you should be doing is working like a slave, spending as little as possible and investing in a manner that is actually proven to work, i.e. trying your best to imitate Buffett rather than losing all your money on shitcoins or active investment.

>>15370427
Yes, but it's not what makes people greedy today.
Check reverse dominance hierarchy.
For power and greediness express themselves, an for those concepts to express themselves have to exist. E.G: you cannot express class domination in a class society. E.G: you cannot really exploit an other human in a classless society without private property of the means of production. E.G: you cannot own a human in an non slave-based mode of production.
For some bad behavior to exist, a pre-existing area where those behavior can express themselves has to exist.

>>15370427
(Edit)
Yes, but it's not what makes people greedy today.
Check reverse dominance hierarchy.
For power and greediness to express themselves, areas for those concepts to express themselves have to exist. E.G: you cannot express class based domination in a classless society. E.G: you cannot really exploit an other human in a classless society without private property of the means of production. E.G: you cannot own a human in an non slave-based mode of production.
For some bad behaviors to exist, a pre-existing social relationship area where those behavior can express themselves has to exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_human_nature

>>15372742
>you cannot really exploit an other human in a classless society without private property of the means of production.
Really depends how you're defining exploit here

>>15372752
Exploit means benefiting of someone else work. If someone works more than what is necessary to renew his living condition, and gives this surplus to someone else (slave owner, feudal lord, employer), he is exploited. If a factory worker produce $6000 of value, but is paid $2000, he is exploited. You can exploit without Capitalism E.G: the NEET who tell his mom to cook for him, and bring him dinner in his room. However, the entirety of Capitalism is based on exploitation of the working class. It is a core element of Capitalism, and Capitalism cannot even develop itself like it is without exploitation, because you need profit (surplus value), in order to reinvest Capital in the company and make it grow.

>>15362634
>even blue collar in current year, they spend 1/4 the time working and 3/4 on preparation, cleanup, relaxing, or shooting the shit
lol I can tell you have never worked a trade

>>15372821
>surplus value
It's not created by the worker but by the means of production and the system itself.

>>15373760
And who created those means of production, if not former workers?
Machines don't create value. Only human labor does. Machine only transfer their value to the product until they break.
If the means of production weren't private, their wouldn't be surplus labor, by definition. Necessary labor would be more important, in order to compensate with the Capital reinvested in Capitalism, but still, the part the owner put in his pocket wouldn't exist. Also, it's not only about value extorted, but about defining the working and living condition. E.G: deciding when and how much work.

>>15374598
finally someone talking some damn sense in here

>>15354916
I work at sonic

>>15373760
>It's not created by the worker but by the means of production and the system itself.
Means of production don't have an influence on necessary labor and surplus labor. Take a single worker, but owning his means of productions, very efficient and modern. He doesn't produce surplus labor, since all he produce, he owns himself.

>>15360066
lol mad

>>15354916
Living in general is useless, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. If someone spends time doing something boring and repetetive all day for cash and then spends it on something pointless, whats it to you? Sitting at home chuckling at your monitor about how stupid other people are is pretty cringe and about as boring.

>>15374598
>And who created those means of production, if not former workers?
A set of people who have likely nothing to do with the set now being employed, and who were given something in exchange for working on it.

>>15354916
This is /lit/ how?

>>15355153
8 hours a day 5 hours a week hahahaha stooooooppppiiiidd

>>15364216
looking good Anon!

>>15374688
>and who were given something in exchange for working on it.
Yeah a wage in exchange for their workforce. Giving away your workforce because lord owner of the means of production have a means of production, when you have none, and you have to pay the rent and your food. Great.

>>15355391
fucking deconstructionist
chew my foreskin like 5 gum you grabbler, go ahead and cry out i know you're going to strike out soon enough but dont you dare look at my ill freeze you dead, cut you dead in your tracks and crystallize you into a great grey pillar of rock salt with my sulphur eyes
the fall of the third temple is coming and the horn (designed in california, made in taiwan, and endorsed by the pope) will sound and i will fall upon your people like a terrier in a rat den
and a side of fries, please

I don't work. I'll work heavily for awhile to save up and spend rest of my travelling and focusing on things I care about.

>>15366078
This

>>15363516
Please add more dots in your post for more TERROR