/lit/ - Literature

Yes. Just work a modest job, get a small savings, move to Montana and buy a farm house. Live in peace and solitude from this horrid world.

>>15362659
In exchange for debt you are given time to dedicate to study whatever you want and a piece of paper used for recognition by others that you are able to complete something with competence. If you were like me and drank and hungout with friends and played videogames for four years, then yes.

It's pretty bad. You can still make the most of it and it's still a good strategic idea in many cases if you want certain jobs and you can manage the debt (by having rich parents or being smart/lucky), but yeah it's basically a way to milk money from the citizenry by gatekeeping meritocracy.

>>15362659
I’ve never understood why debt is necessary to pursue higher education

>>15362659
It's too easy to cheat for STEMchads and LIBARTchads degrees are a joke

>>15362685
Higher >education is a commodity now
Colejmoneyprinter go BRRRRR

Its a sad state of affairs that /lit/ taught me more about culture than my english minor.

>>15362659
"The Case against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money" by Bryan Caplan
Available on libgen

To summarize, only the best students will see much benefit, almost entirely from signalling. Even in STEM, pic related.

>>15362720
Here, we follow the refined advice of Horace
>To teach and delight
Enjoy the keks and the wisdom.

>>15362659
The only thing tuition buys you is access to professors and subsequent networking. If you're not a garrulous person, it's a waste of time and money.

>>15362685
((()))

>>15362659

I wouldn't know, I have a full scholarship. Apply early and often if academia is your goal. Money is everywhere- you must grab it first.

>>15362805
>Money is everywhere- you must grab it first.
Imagine going to college so that you can write drivel like this

>>15362805
Still costs four years of your life. One can travel the world, find a wife and acquire a small fortune in 4 years. Ask me how I know.

>>15362954
Your best friend did all of that with your ex-girlfriend?

>>15362659
The whole American educational system is a scam. Graduate with a state or general education diploma by the 10th grade, go to community college, and learn a practical marketable skill.

Am I mistaken or does every american secretly hope they lived in scandinavian white country collecting neetbux?

Yeah, it’s pretty fucked though it seems like you often have no choice. I say that as someone working in the American college system.

>>15362805
So you go to college and really believe every student can just fix the problem by getting scholarships, huh?

>>15362999
I feel bad for you americans honestly. Here in my country (Portugal) college tuition is like 1000 euros per year and we have good universities in the global rankings

>>15362749
Yeah, but what’s the alternative?

>>15362685
It’s not. Americans have this very elaborate system which is basically a ruse which makes it more or less mandatory to go to college but forces them to foot the bill with debt and that debt financing inevitably drives prices higher. They never mandated that American students become debt slaves. They just changed the rules and backed them into a corner into they had no choice.

I personally know someone who owed nearly $100k upon graduating from an exercise science program. He never worked in the field and works a job you don’t need a degree for.

>>15362659
go to a trade school instead

if you must just sit in on some lit classes.

>>15363024
The Caplan book recommends society drop schooling after 8th grade. But that's not up to the individual, so pic related.
If you're just worried about money in your future, get a union apprenticeship in something you'd like and live with your parents until your wife has given you so many children they don't all fit in the house. (Then buy a house and have your parents live with you. )

it's worse i've heard about financing programs by private universities that will admit you but you sign a contract that entitles the university to a % of your future earnings. the US education institution is literal slavery

>>15362766
Basically this. Complete waste if you're not jacked into the omnicube

>>15362659
No. If you are a pants-on-head retard then having a degree will not save you but if you are a capable, intelligent person then having a degree opens doors. Simple as that.

>>15363218
The problem with an economist’s recommendation regarding education is that it’s restricted to economic outcomes but I think there’s clearly other benefits to education, specifically a classical one. Under this guy’s model, everyone would only ever know what they work which is probably fine for most people but I think it’s pretty foolish to say it should be stopped at 8th grade across the board. Cost aside, a real problem with education is not just the price but that fact that many people come out of it not actually being educated at all. Eliminating it doesn’t solve that problem, it just hides it in the closet.

>>15362685
Actually the historical reason is interesting: first instance of student loans comes from a program at Dartmouth to offer Divinity training to children in the frontier. Many of these students took up the offer, switched majors, and then enjoyed Ivy league educations and life in the East. So Dartmouth decided to impose a loan that would ONLY be waived.if.students went back West to establish churches. So basically a form of social control.

>>15363270

>pants-on-head retard

Lol haven't heard that expression in a while. Underrated.

>>15362659
Yes, but you still need to go unless the system is fundamentally changed.

Take the yuropill.

>>15363351
The book was not entirely about economics. Anyway some experience with /lit/ shows you can self teach on the internet well beyond most colleges.
However, your final statement didn't make sense. If you stop pretending to educate people, they will stop pretending they were educated. Even better they might later try to educate themselves, and actually succeed.

>>15362659
College itself is not a scam. People go to college all the time.
Americans valued education, more than nearly any other nation ever. So, in the second half of the 20th century, the prices of colleges rose, because some people realized how much power it gave them over the common man; the gatekeeping of knowledge, the slavery of eternal debt, and the control of who & what gets taught to the rulers and workers of the next generation.
Who did this, you might ask?

>>15362659
No. Just because people squander their opportunities doesn't mean those opportunities should be revoked or that the system is flawed for offering them. College is a great investment—you get to be around intelligent people, dedicate yourself to learning full-time and open doors to careers that would otherwise be locked.
Once you go out into the work force and realize how stupid and ignorant the average non-college educated person is, you will realize how valuable it is towards the development of a person's maturity, interests and worldliness which would be worth it on its own.

Pretty much. Unless you have the magical ability to double/triple major without going into debt it is a waste of time

>>15363270
>>15363589
>>15363842
>>15363910
Boomers, trying to justify their own bad choices or liars, you decide!

>>15363782
What I’m saying is that right now we’re not actually educating people. I don’t think the solution to that is to stop pretending. I think it’s to actually educate people. And yeah, there’s value in self study but it’s probably even more delusional to think that everyone can just learn things on their own than it is to think that everyone who comes out of our current piece of crap educated. It’s a matter of deciding what you think is better as a society. If you want a democratic system, for example, a classical education into adulthood for every citizen should be basically a requirement.

>>15363782
Also, I’m sure the book isn’t about economics solely but the context is clearly that the problem is approached through the lens of someone who is informed by their experience as an economist. That’s a fine example of the sort of thing that might go over the head of a lot of people who are only educated up say, Grade 8.

>>15363920
Why? The benefit to a double or a triple major is basically negligible.

>>15362659
It is if you treat it as a meal ticket
If you want education as an end in itself, or if you have more particular tastes about what kind of work you want, rather than some "trade" that doesn't do anything for you except give you a stable income, then it's not that much of a scam.
Bear in mind that financial aid actually takes a hearty chunk out of the cost. I actually had my intuition ENTIRELY paid for by financial aid (school was only 7000/year), because I was able to put myself as tax independent with zero income.

>>15363910
I mean I don’t completely disagree but I’ve also realized how stupid and ignorant the college educated person is too.

Read Leo Strauss’ Liberalism Ancient and Modern for red pills on why you won’t ever actually receive an education and then conclude for yourself that you can still use what we have now for social and economic mobility if you play your cards right (though you probably won’t.)

>>15362659
Going to college was one of the best things I could've done. The fact that people used to oversell it just has people rushing to the opposite extreme and treating it as something utterly worthless. Of course the truth is between the two. It's worth it in many senses, and not worth it in others. I've personally never heard of people regretting college (except for PhD's every now and then).

>>15363019
I owe 60k and can't get a job that pays more than 40k (cost of living, even in poverty, would be at least 30k.) i really hate this fucking country.
>>15363035
This. they stole everything from me. i'm so tired. but i guess if i mcfuckingkill myself they won't get to collect on their godforsaken blood debt. this country is a machine set up to bleed people dry, we're all just cattle. it isn't even a real country. just a money milking bleeding assembly line of cattle.

idk I just got some tech certs and got a regular old office job restarting retards computers. It's probably worth it if your'e a striver and not treat it like high school part 2

>>15362668
Based. You can also save money for a few years, and learn a shit load about economics and business management.
College is only good to understand that college people (professors, students), are retards who don't have vision. If you don't do college, you might have an inferiority complex, or think you missed something. College also taught me that studying hard, and then wage slaving hard, is a very low yield time and effort investment. Again, doing pure business, if done correctly, yields more money for less efforts.

>>15364025
Ah I think I see. You believe these people can actually be educated. That is false. Classroom effects on educational attainment are 2-3%. The difference between the best class and the worst, including the teacher, is tiny.
What IQ does it take to get your classical education, to succeed in college? At least 100 IQ. But of course 100 IQ is the median. Keeping the bottom half in school to learn Greek and geometry is worse than wasting their time, it is also demoralizing. Get them out into work they can understand and they gain both money in their pocket and a sense of pride that school was crushing.
Nor will they ever become learned yeoman citizens under any plan. They will move and vote with their tribe because that is the most abstract thought they can muster.

>>15362659
Entire modern life is a scam

>>15364285
>What IQ does it take to get your classical education, to succeed in college?
Imagine talking about how others are educated and then bringing up pseudoscience without a hint of irony

>>15364333
The scientific consensus is that IQ is a meaningful predictor of educational attainment.

>>15364358
You mean how well you can take an IQ test?

>>15364383
yes how well you can take an IQ test is a reliable predictor of how well you perform at other stuff

>>15364093
Your only option is just basically work your ass off to pay it, you already took the loan so there is no turning back. Eyes on the future nigger, lets do this, you can do it

Modern society is a scam in 2020.

Most are focusing on the financial side here. The actual education side is an absolute scam too. I can’t tell you how many times i’ve had a prof that hasn’t even read the canonical literature of their own fucking class subjects.
How are you going to teach political theory and have a surface level understanding of Aristotle’s Politics and no other of his works? Meanwhile he’s already written his fair share of fucking academic papers. Same for many other authors, Hobbes, Hume, Machiavelli, etc. It blows my mind when i’ve literally read more than my professors.

I always respect them, even an idiot can teach you something and you should always stay humble. But fuck man I just wanna be taught by someone who’s read more canon than me in my own major. Is that too much to ask? Academia is hot trash.

>>15364432
It’s been a scam for a lot longer

>>15364093
Why did you go 60k into debt? Did you buy into the meme that college would pay off? Or did you just choose a saturated field? Or did you go to a mcfucking statie

Is scamming a scam against scammers?

>>15364441
I mean I'm not disagreeing with you re. professors' reading habits, but might I redditly suggest that you lie near the left side of the dunning kruger curve?

>>15364358
>citations needed

>>15364333
I'm willing to accept IQ as unproven. But it still leaves two problems. One, not all people are born with equal intelligence and suggesting even half are capable is probably far too generous. Two, IQ is one of the most tested and used measures in social science. If you reject it on insufficient evidence, you must also reject everything else, such as all the idpol microaggressions, implicit bias, and structural racism.

>>15364441
Or a TA with an accent so thick you can barely understand them. The tuition for some 101 classes, in private colleges, to be around $1mil, but the adjunct/PhD student gets a few thousand for the class.

It is cheaper to just hire PhDs as personal tutors than pay tuition!

>>15364504
The tuition paid to the school by the students of that class.

Sometimes, being a poorfaggot helps. My family is below the poverty line, so I got full finaid at a top-10 US uni. I don't regret a single moment of those 4 years--I pivoted into a masters and now I've got a non-furloughed job.

>>15362659
[URGENT] About to fail college class

Is this okay to send bros? Or do I just try and do the problem set and then submit it?

I'm slowly realizing that it must be. Been denying it while I worked toward my post-grad, but after going online cause of rona I realized what a bunch of fake bullshit most of it is. Read what you want, write till you're good, and watch free lectures online.

>>15364604
Tell your teacher to send nudes

>>15364604
hold your professor at gunpoint until he accepts your demands

>>15364604
Nah bro, it sounds like you just didn't do the p-set and now you're making up excuses. Leave the "moving-out" sobstory out of it. Just ask if it's alright to make it up.

>>15362659
>colledge
Collage*

>>15364480
>dunning kruger
Profoundly reddit.

>>15364642
Go to the subplebbit of mensa if you want to immediately die.

>>15362659
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O21xtdoiJoM

>>15364627
How would you write it then? You don't think I need to offer any reason why I don't have a problem set that I supposedly did back in early March? The grade just got posted earlier this Week, but didn't check until now.

>>15364642
as i noted, friendo. Being reddit doesn't mean it's wrong though. Real tired of people who read two books of Aristotle, once-over, and start acting all educated n shit

>>15364659
Let me ask you a fuckin question. Did you do the p-set or not?

>>15364677
Yeah I did. I don't remember at all what I did because I haven't paid attention that much to the course since he decided to stop doing problem sets once we went online.

>>15363996
You belong in jail for peddling retarded memes. Workers with bachelor's degrees make more median income as a group than those without. EAT SHIT.

>>15364700
Alright, so you did it. Did you turn it in? If you did, simple fix: "Hey, I turned in that set, you must've missed it."
If you didn't turn it in, then you should own up to that. "I'm sorry but I forgot to turn in that set, though I completed it. Can I make it up for half-credit? Or do something else? I really want to pass and I realize my own mistakes have led me here." Say something like that, but less autistic

>>15364082
My brother (a genius by any measure) dropped out at the start of his 3rd year of pharmacy school to become a certified mechanic at a MB dealership. I think he found the other students insufferable and the program started to require them to do ridiculous shit, like drive to the next state over to do shifts as an intern even though he already worked as a pharmacy assistant.

>>15364751
That doesn't sound like a problem with college. That sounds like a problem with his program. Also, your brother may be marginally autistic, we call these types "INTJ"

>>15362749
No way there's that few math grads.

>>15364751
Anyone who's really, really smart would never tolerate whoring out their mind to the pay the bills.
That's why that Guren Lagan dude works as a bouncer and the uber-mathematicians are all couch surfers.

>>15364739
No, you upload the problem set online. I never did that. I can't play the blame game.

Does this sound better?

Tbh, I know he was a really shitty student in his undergrad and didn't do assignments all the time. Hopefully, he has some mercy.

>>15364798
In the first paragraph, delete everything after the word "earlier." Better to get straight to the point. You ever notice how professors email? One or two sentences at most.

>>15364769
You either whore your body or your mind sometimes both.

Yes. College is a scam because of college loans. The college loan system is evil, evil, evil.
The system is very fucked up for at least four reasons.

In the first place, colleges do not LOSE anything when a student cannot pay back their loans, because the college gets all the money up front. They have no skin in the game. So colleges are actually encouraged to up their prices and accept huge quantities of students, most of whom they KNOW will never be able to pay back their loans. So on the one hand, the value of an education is watered down, because the classrooms are full of incompetant students, who in a just system would have been encouraged to learn a useful trade or start a family when they are young and energetic instead of going to UNI.
Indeed, schooling should be for those who wish to be students, and who have the capacity to engage in theoretical investigations, not those who wish to fuck off and party, or for student atheletes, many of whom haven't two brain cells to rub together (although the student atheletes are in perhaps an even more unjust system, the NCAA).

On the other hand, because the college is incentivised to jack up their prices, because the students aren't paying out of pocket but instead are taking out debt that will accumulate but needen't be paid off for years. Thus the colleges are full of useless beaurocrats while the professors (the soul of the college) are prevented from actually taking on a leadership role, as they used to. So you have a college full of useless officials, who themselves will make policies to benefit themselves, and extract more money from students. The rise of these managers is a major source of corruption in the college system, as these useless drones will push through every policy to protect their own jobs and get more money for themselves, and they are completely insulated from when a student destroys their life through loans. They are parasitic and evil, and they should be publicly shamed. .
In our parent's generation, you could work your way through college by working a second job. Wouldn't that be nice!
(1/4)

>>15364828
I always feel like students have to explain more, but good point. I'll do it. He's a STEM fag anyways, they don't want to read a bunch of shit. Thanks anon. You think it's good to send now?

>>15364845
yes, good luck

>>15364850
Thanks, I sent it

>>15364504
>If you reject it on insufficient evidence
I reject it because it’s an attempt to quantify what is still an abstraction people can’t collectively define, whereas the other concepts you mentioned have been experienced by people that most likely don’t look like you

>>15364480
I came with the expectation I knew nothing but then I realized the professors also knew nothing.
The angst in my comment is being pissed at how worthless my professors have been.
When you ask a question and they obsess over semantics and a singular interpretation (for which there are many) what else are you supposed to conclude? That there’s only a single interpretation to be had for all of canonical political theory?

>>15364843
>college is a scam because of college loans
Do you understand that those are 2 different things?

An education opens doors for you if nothing else. Could you sit on your ass 15 hours a day learning C++ and succeed? Yeah, probably, but colleges provide structured curriculums that job makers approve of. If you have a bachelor's they're going to hire you because the degree is an assurance that you have at least a modicum of knowledge about a field.

Just because loans are bad doesn't mean getting an education isn't a better decision for 90% of people. The problem is taking out loans for shit degrees. Anyone taking out a loan who is pre-law, pre-med, or has a high paying job lined up when they graduate is making the right decision. You cannot refute this. Unless you have some talent that is making you good money ALREADY or a skill that has earned you clout in a field already, then nobody will pay you for your stupid hobby.

>HURRR I'M LIKE KANYE WEST I'LL SUCCEED NO MATTER WHAT

GO TO JAIL.

>>15364920
I wouldn't even be mad about the loans if they went to the professors.
Instead they go to some black hole of bullshit so that the professors are all adjuncts paid nickels while costs increase 15% every year.

>>15364504
Don’t get me started on TAs. As time goes on I become more convinced that TA should stand for Teaching Acolyte than assistant. Cult of Academia.

>>15364664
I cited other works than just Aristotle in case you stopped reading there. Where will you stop reading in this reply I wonder?

>>15364938
>Teaching Acolyte
very witty anon, how come?

>>15364725
>56k
...that's not even a lot. wtf. at least i make more than the plebs, i guess.

>>15364843
But the universities are only able to do this because the student loan companies have forced incredibly unjust laws through the system, which are the clearest example of evil politics that I know of. We have all heard that the Obama Administration passed a law so that you cannot declare bankruptcy on loans, but one should think through what this policy incentivises. It allows the student loan companies to give out bad loan after bad loan with zero risk for themselves when a student cannot pay back the loan. So they are incentivised to give out loans to everyone, and will be able to make ridiculous amounts of money off the students who aren't able to pay back their loans--and with the increasing cost of college detailed in the my first post, the numbers of students who won't be able to pay back their loans is going up. But if you don't pay, you can't declare bankruptcy: the amount you owe will continue to pile up until it is literally impossible for you to pay it back in your lifetime. And it will persist over your lifetime.
The amount of interest owed is usually around five percent, and this is compounded annually.

So, for example, supposing you take out 100000 in college loans just to get a degree- and many students do this, as the cost of going to a college is around 50000 per year. Even if your parents have saved, it isn't likely that you will get through without loans.
Now if you want to pay the standard rate of paying back the 100000 over ten years (the option which is recommended on the college loan forms) you will be paying about eight hundred per month: and by the end of the ten years, you will have paid almost an additional forty-thousand in interest.
This is if you are being RESPONSIBLE, mind you: if you miss some payments (as it is very easy to fail to pay 800$, as jobs are extremely uncertain in modern day America), the interest will keep piling up.
If you try not to pay for a few months, the loan company can destroy your credit score, so that your future plans, (and in some cases job prospects) are devastated, and immediately request the whole of the money you have been loaned. They even have the force of the U.S. government behind them to help them enforce this policy: remember, NO BANKRUPTCY!

And this policy applies to every college student who applies for loans: the majority of bright young minds are permanently indebted, and their future--their ability to start families, and to buy a home--has been sold out to these insurance companies.
Meanwhile the heads of these insurance companies make BILLIONS off of the interest, while not producing anything, and while taking no risk. Isn't that great?
(2/4)

>>15364951
when will you stop being a fuckin know it all? no one gives a shit about your book club. undergrads are universally insufferable, case in point

Why should I worry about failing classes that have no relevance to my degree? I study History, not Chemistry. I don't wanna tear my hairs out over that when the final degree paper says History on it.

>>15365022
Once you fail one class, you realize it's not the end of the world, and then it's a vicious spiral into doom because you start taking other liberties.

>>15364418
Similar but heavier weight on me than he has but yeah this is my outlook. I took the risk, it's my responsibility. I don't regret uni but it's the price I paid to have a shot into the middle class.

>>15364725
There are almost endless problems with your simplistic understanding of the situation. I hardly know where to start.
Should I say spending 4+ years and $100k will dig you into hole only the best paying majors can recoup. Or point out the dramatic difference between some college and graduating, and how those people are especially screwed. Perhaps how the outcomes for people who were accepted to college but didn't go tend to be similar to the people who went? But there's so much more, oh where to start!?

>>15364767
The sources are given.

>>15364896
>Implicit racism isn't imaginary because I'm brown!
Amazing! Tell new how you accomplished this mind reading?! Did your understanding of science come to you in a dream? Explain the pic as immaterial abstractions of DNA too!

>>15365022
failure is the system's way of weeding out the weak-minded

>>15364982
Now at this point it might be asked "well why do the students take out these ridiculous loans"?

Now I could go and answer this through a long analysis of the whole system of credentialism, where you need a B.A. to get a job where a lesser degree was once needed; or I could argue that our whole culture is built on the idea that the proper life-path is one where you go through grade-school to high-school to College--and this is continually repeated in our art and culture so that someone with only a high-school education is persistantly stigmatized. But these are only surface level critiques.

A better way to think about the problem for the student is to think of it as the modern form of indentured servitude, to which our current system of student debt is highly analogous.

Just as indentured servants would sign up for a future life of a few years of slavery in exchange for passage to America, so too do current prospective college students sign up for a few years of wage-slavery in exchange for a few years on pleasure island and a piece of paper proving they are educated. And just as indentured servitude often extended the slavery for years beyond what was initially contracted, so too does the interest on the student loans allow the loan companies to extend the wage-slavery of its targets for years and years. The fact that you cannot declare bankruptcy is the real enforcement condition of this new slavery, because it closes the easy-option out, which would have forced the loan companies to evaluate who was a good candidate for higher education and who is not.

The arguments that the current system of student loans is actually JUST (which we all know are bullshit) can also be applied to Indentured servitude in defence of the claim that this ALSO was just. Whenever you hear an argument in favor of the justice of our current college loan system, you ought to ask yourself if this argument also would apply to the policy of indentured servitude.

Ultimately, just as we wouldn't expect eighteen year olds to be competant judges of when it it is a good idea to sell oneself into slavery, we should not expect eighteen year-olds to be competant judges of what their future earning potential will be, particularily when the free-market cannot due its job due to corrupt government policy.

>>15364985
Oh hey you finished reading what you’re replying to. I’m so proud of you!
Undergrads are so insufferable because they want to learn from their professors but instead they just read more and stop giving a shit about their professors in order to learn ugh you got me.
Apologies for not reaching your indoctrination your indoctrination levels in the ivory tower. What floor are you on, I ask?

>>15365078
>But there's so much more, oh where to start!?
you could stop speaking like a little bitch, for one

>>15365124
don't talk to me

>>15364725
I have a bachelor's degree and I never found a mech engineering job. Joined a trade and now I make $80k per year. Which line would I fall under?

>>15365088
Things thus are very unjust and evil. Nor should we expect this to be changed without intense grasswork orginazation, as the government is on the one hand pushed by lobbyists to continue these unjust policies, because student loans bring in billions of easy money to the loan corporations. and on the other hand having an indebted public serves big business VERY well, because it drastically decreases the ability of labor to bargain with employers. It is one thing to work in a job when you know you can GTFO of that job at any moment, and thus are able to reject unjust policies because you can always threaten to leave--it is another thing to be working a job when you know that if you lose this job, you will still have to pay your loans no matter what, and so you must obey your employer and not start trouble.
Student loans have broken the back of the American worker.

Still, all is not lost: this current coronavirus crises has opened up a liminal space where the future is genuinely open. Currently student loan companies are not charging interest, because they know that if they did charge interest, it would lead to their complete overthrow by an enraged citizenry, because the injustice would just be too patent. But we ought to seize this moment and overturn this particular unjust parasitic institution: not America, and not the American University System, and not Capitalism wholesale: only the system of student loans which sells our nation's youth into slavery, for the sake of a small few parasites. Now is the time to think through what a more just system would be, because now the future is genuinely open.

If you are at all convinced by this, please just begin to research the topic yourself, and tell everyone you know to think deeply about what a more just educational system would be. Get politically involved in reforming just this issue.

I don't have all the answers, and some of what I say may be wrong, but I think we can all see that the current system has so many evil elements that it must be reformed immediatly.
(4/4)

>>15365177
under the one that says "bachelor's+." Was that so hard?

>>15365138
Hahahaha

>>15362659

4-5 years of drinking, drugging and fucking hot chicks
if that's you idea of a scam, then yes

>>15364920
Did you read the post you are responding to?

>>15362659
>Colledge
I think the system would be a scam for you, at least

>>15365085
>study a STEM subject
>first two years you have to take an equal amount of humanities classes
>if you fail these you don't advance your degree
Everyone and their mother knows this is bullshit.

>>15365088
>>15365188
Nice double-dubs.

>>15365547
I agree anon.
The strange thing is, why do we have so many persistant lies, which we all know to be lies, in the area of Higher Education? Why do they stick around?

>>15365547
Do you realize how coddling the system is? It's literally impossible to fail these courses if you show up and put in minimum effort. Just like most of high school testing, these courses aren't there to make you learn anything, they're to prevent lazy dumbass stoners from getting into upper society. If you disagree, you may just be one of those stoners.

>>15365595
In fact the classes are primarily there to give the kids something to do while the system milks money out of them. Plenty of lazy dumbass stoners manage to pass eventually because the standards really are that low.

>>15362659
>he doesn't know everything in America is a racket

>>15362659
Yes. Hope and pray for it to collapse from coronavirus fallout.

>>15365595
They are just padding their $$$ and retaining students for longer than they need to be but I still agree your reasoning. You'd have to skip every class to fail history 101.

>>15364843
>>15364982
>>15365088
>>15365188

Imagine writing all this just, because you are angry about your student debt.
YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT.
NO ONE FORCED YOU.
JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY IT BACK DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE OPPRESSED!

>>15365682
Do you always read every word of the terms and conditions? College loans are predatory, and usually signed by people who don't know what they're getting into. It's extremely easy to inflate a contract with unreadable jargon.

>>15363218
>>15362749
stop funding education and open all the borders...got it.

>>15365750
>Do you always read every word of the terms and conditions? College loans are predatory, and usually signed by people who don't know what they're getting into. It's extremely easy to inflate a contract with unreadable jargon.

>>15365805

>>15365750
>ohh noooo a stupid person did something stupid
In the past they would have been conquered and enslaved.
Someone must suffer so you can live in luxury, that is the way of the world.
Capitalism fucks them gently.

>>15364982
>If you try not to pay for a few months, the loan company can destroy your credit score
Yep. my credit score is 550. not that i care lmao, i have this much debt as it is, last thing i want is even more. fucking mortgage or car note or something, you kidding me?
and i think the compounding is monthly not annually but i could be wrong. desu i don't bother to look, it just depresses me. i only have to pay back half of them and it's 300 a month, the other half my mommy is paying (proabably around the same.) 600 a month... and they haven't significantly decreased at all.

you're a gentleman and a scholar.

however, i dont give that much of a shit about the bankruptcy bit. the two issues that affect ME are the interest (it's at for-profit rates--above inflation, meaning they are bleeding a profit from us), especially that it compounds, and the inflated cost to begin with.
>>15365188
>reformed
set on fire and the ill gotten assets of the shadow elite seized and redistributed back to us? yes. i would literally kill people over this. i'm not fucking around, these fucking banksters need to have a knife twisted into their guts

>>15365805

>>15362659
It’s more like a social network now. If you don’t make friends and buy into the normie life it is absolutely a scam. If you can get hyped at the cowboys game or have a good time with the boys and throw back some white claw and act clever in the way you talk and learn the way they talk and get a job with your friend’s dad who works in supply chain and can I intern over the summer because I took a class once or twice that said supply chain every now and then and let’s have a team effort and pencil push this timeline up and you value professional speaking then yes university could be for you

It’s just a much bigger risk. If you fell off the straight and narrow just shut up and take two years at community college, don’t pretend to have a big PP when you already are socially emasculated, and if you were the type to strive after normie success without ever feeling accomplished because your parents didn’t love you enough then you’d probably already be in some stressful overworked position already


There are so many programs out there that don’t have the words university on them. You dont really learn shit there anymore for liberal arts. Those that get giddy social experiences are typically the same that got those experiences in high school. I guess you could try STEM if you’re a loner but it is mad depressing.

>>15365682
T. Boomer.

>>15365781
When did I say anything about borders?

>>15364843
>>15364982
>>15365088
>>15365188

Thank you for this anon.

>>15364920
>pre-law

In the US at least, only a graduate level Law degree matters. And studies have shown that pre-law students don't do that well in the LSAT compared to other "useless degrees" like Philosophy. Believe it or not, Philosophy students tend to do the best in Law school. Pre-law is a meme.

>>15362659
The only reason to attend university in the current year is because many employers won't even look at your resume if you don't have a degree. It has little to do with being educated in a certain field.
There are very few things that can't be learned through self study.

>>15362659
For the most part, yeah. But you really can’t beat paying a little under $5000 a year to figure out your life for four years (unless you had an above average high school experience).

>>15366674
Well of course phil does best. Physics majors might do even better. See pic.

>>15364843
>>15364982
>>15365088
>>15365188
Very good posts. Nothing original, but that's kind of comforting. Pretty much everyone who isn't a complete cretin realizes how terrible the current university system is, so it's hard to see things going on as they are for much longer. Hopefully declining enrollment will force schools into making some changes.

>>15363551
Interesting

>So basically a form of social control.

So essentially nothing has fundamentally changed

>>15364052
>he had intuition until he was old enough to go to college

How does it feel to be mentally handicaped?

>>15363782
>Anyway some experience with /lit/ shows you can self teach on the internet well beyond most colleges.
ITT: sub 1500 SAT cope
imagine thinking lit has intellectual discussion similar to any university worth going to

>>15364642
>Pseudery
profoundly 4chan

>>15367611
Which exactly are some universities worth going to?

>>15367665
top 10 universities for your subject. Universities which produce cutting edge research and academia, universities with professors at the top of their game. I can't believe anyone uses this website for anything more than wholesome and relaxing retardation

>>15367691
How are these top categories determined? By whom?

>>15367611
this
no youtube video has compared in content to a lecture by a professor. i majored in Classics and minored in History, and ive had absolutely brilliant professors. and for that matter, no lecture has compared to office hours. my mentor works for a big name think tank and is a fucking genius.
and also profs offer personalized feedback. and can you steer you in the right directions when you conduct your own research. there's plenty of people who believe they can self-teach, but because they know so little to begin with, they end up falling down rabbit holes of pophistory and/or retarded conspiracy theories

>>15367692
They're determined by evaluating the quality of research, student satisfaction, job prospects, academic selectiveness, status of alumni etc etc etc. You can argue about your Ushitfuck but Oxbridge and the Ivies will provide stellar education that "lit taught me evewwything uwu" faggots will never understand.

>>15367705
lit users read Nietzsche and all they derive from it is "women bad might is right" and then insult university education

>>15367705
Fellow classicist, I wanted to add to this. Most of my education wasn't from "lectures" anyway, it was the hours spent poring over dictionaries and commentaries and discussing abstruse points of grammar and history with my professors and other students. Learning isn't the same as "information"—which is all YouTube can give you.

>>15367726
And how are these categories determined? Can we even try to be empirical instead of just saying nothing?

>>15367756
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/world-university-rankings-2020-methodology
One website out of many.

>>15364041
Are you fucking retarded?
One degree open doors
Two degrees open even more doors
Etc
Magic

>>15362659
Don’t fucking do it unless you have a crystal clear career path towards a job that doesn’t make you want to an hero

>>15367844
yeah too bad that’s bullshit

>>15368022
Magic?

>>15367611
As if you achieved greater than 1500, with reading comprehension like that. >>15367691
I said most. And we are discussing the value for most. But your lack of specifics, or
>>15367705
Gargling your professors balls does not suggest you have learnt anything special from your grade inflated institution. Those who are accepted but never attend find as much success. And those that attended and I've employed have as often as not knew little of the very subjects I needed from them. Whereas >>15367731
/lit/ will break out into arguments far beyond any bachelor's program often enough for anyone not newfagging the place up with their twaddle. How must it be? Have you never seen doctoral candidates argue with some wildeyed autist? Not even read of our poor Husserl scholar? If you haven't comprehended any of these things what good has your education done most?

>>15369332
Who cares that only rich people go to Harvard. You can't be intelligent if you're poor.

>>15362659

Pretty much, yeah.

I'd only recommend going to college if you know exactly what you want to do, what you want to accomplish in that field.

If you're like most people and you just want to go and like, kinda explore and do stuff and be creative and...you know, just stuff and stuff...then fuck no, avoid college at all costs. Get a fucking job at some dumb shitty store where you don't have to actually do anything, and start from there.

>>15362720
That's because professors are egalitarians (i.e., plebs) and we're patricians.

>>15369342
Oh dear anon, the 1.8% doesn't refer to rich people, their rich parents (which yes they generally are), or even to intelligence, but to a quality more closely related to nepotism.

Is the American "x" system a scam? Yes, of course it is, americans are retards

>>15369772
Based

>>15369772
>>15369790
- rejected from american college

>>15362668
I don't think you understand how expensive that is. Celebrities buy land in Montana for that very reason. It's expensive, beautiful, extreme weather.

>>15362659
My sister wants to go for liberal arts, is she a dumb bitch? Im thinking so, I don't want her to waste her degree, I want to see her succeed.

>>15369823
Why would she want to be taught nothing about everything?

>>15362659
everything in america is a scam and honestly americans deserve it

>>15369823
The humanities have been taken over by women, she'll be fine.

>>15369823
She'll be fine if she's an outgoing person. She can get a decent paying generic office job with a libarts degree. Ideally she should do the first two years in community college though, but be careful because the university will try to fuck her over post transfer if she doesn't stand up for herself.
>>15362659
It's a scam and one you can't get away from if you can't do 'muh trades', and even then I know guys who just have medical debt in those instead of student. My parents were both fucked over by not having degrees, if you want a white collar job, debt is the price of admission now.
>tfw dad had to get a bachelor's at 45 to continue doing the same job he had been doing for 20 years
Having retard HR workers with no knowledge of jobs they hire for using algorithms for resume sorting was a mistake.

>>15362659
Even the Ivy leagues are lowering the standards at which they teach. Bloom noted how badly read the undergrads were post the year 2000. Another Yale professor noted how she couldn't teach the beauty of Ovid's language anymore due to self-righteous freshmen (MUH TOO MUCH RAPE), essentially missing the point that the gods (fate) fucks us in the ass, both kings and slaves.

>>15365682
>>you signed a contract no one force you
>scoffing at the spirit of vengeance that has been powering Human civilization since the beginning.

The sky will crack open and it will rain blood

Almost every aspect of American society is a racket. Jefferson was right, once we became settled and urbanized we rebuilt the same things our ancestors fled but in excess.

>>15365188
Don't major in useless shit like econ
How difficult of a concept is this to understand for some people?

>>15362668
Not sustainable. One day property taxes will go up. You do know what property taxes are, right? It's not possible to drop out of society until you die unless you have 10mil in the bank.

>>15362659
yes of course -- why could reading some books and writing some papers ever be worth more than an actual house?

>>15370384
>This
In order to live out this dream you're either going to have to learn carpentry and build yourself a home or hire people to do it for you.

I went to a community college, and got a degree after 3ish years. (I failed some classes, so i took longer.) I then got luck and got a job as a programmer. It probably varies person to person but it wasn't too expensive for me.

>>15363910
>you get to be around intelligent people, dedicate yourself to learning full-time and open doors to careers that would otherwise be locked

You're either 60+ or have never set foot in a college.

>>15370384
>>15370430
>>15369814
then move to the woods and squat illegally in the remote wilderness.

>>15364432
>In 2020
You mean, "any time past the 1800's".

>>15370489
Who could imagine a better life Anon.

>>15362659
>colledge
Sounds like a scam, considering your grammar.

>>15370384
bud you obviously have no idea how much you need to retire... you're able to pull out up to 4% of an investment every year, so say your 10 million has a 5% interest rate annually this would give you roughly 400k a year to spend, without cutting into your principle, and there are many people that live off of 50k a year, so divide your 10 million by 8

>>15370584
better than this.

>>15369742
>all that jewish privilege

>>15369823
>>15370067
You can get a full bachelor's at many "community colleges" now. The price will be tiny, and no one pays attention to the name of a college unless they recognize it. So your community college and something like Amherst are equivalent on the west coast.

>>15364843
>the value of an education is watered down
This. Every 85 - 110 IQ midwit/dipshit I went to high-school with graduated college.

>>15362668
Fpbp

>>15367592
It's just shadow Ni bro

>>15362668
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR6bQiZeOrk
>tfw you brush your shoulder against a sharp branch it becomes infected you get gangrene and die
It is a sad thing that your adventure ended here.

>>15362659

The American college systems very much follows the equally American adage "You get what you pay for"
That is to say if we are to consider higher education something valuable well then it ought to be expensive
It's not really that hard to see why this is a dumb philosophy in general

>>15362997
What gave it away?

>>15362997
No I wish I was living in New England in the early 1800s, living in a small town where everyone owns a farm. I own a herd of cattle. I'm married to extremely prudish puritan woman but we fuck like bunnies because God wants her to have as many children as possible. We die together at age 98 and there's like 400 people at our funeral because each of our 20 children have 20 children themselves.

>>15373577
That's pretty much being Amish, but you won't go there and convert, because you're a hypocritical pleasure-drinking loser dipstick like everyone else.

>>15373588
Amish don't let outsiders in, they're an ethnoreligion.

I find it incomprehensible that Americans spend tens of thousands of dollars for degrees in fields like literature or english. Where I live, university is 40$ per year (really) and even under these conditions I don't understand people who choose majors that don't advance their job prospects at all. But that people actually PAY for this is just mind-blowing

>>15363019
Am I able to fly there and enroll?

>>15362659
Is it true that you can just stay in university forever in socialist countries? That sounds like the life to me.

>>15373852
Please nuke us.

>>15374021
This is why our literature is soulless compared to the euros.

>>15371737
yoooo Shadowgate beckons