/lit/ - Literature

>>15359091

Siege is cringe. Turner Diaries is superior by every metric.

>>15359369
Why's that?

>>15359369
Turner Diaries is out dated, siege is more fit for today and radical.

>>15359450
>>15359370
>>15359369
>>15359091
All books for tiny brained retards, if you're gonna be a fascist, at least read the real stuff.

>>15359450
>Turner Diaries is out dated

They were literally written at almost the exact same time.

>>15359456
Have you read them?

>>15359456
These books are post-fascism, its pure racial anarchist accelerationism.

>>15359464
Yes, I used to be a white nationalist. I also read White Power by GLR. They're all meme books without an ounce of intellectual content. Siege is Mason bitching about how the WN movement is a dumpster fire and the Turner Diaries is WLP having a power fantasy about it not being a dumpster fire.

>>15359460
Yes but Siege is more applicable for contemporary society than a fictional what if story.

>>15359456

Yeah except Mein Kampf and For My Legionaries have little to no relevance to modern American society.

The far right needs a modern book for a modern revolution.

>>15359471
What were the most cringe worthy chapters?

>>15359466
Then your entire ideology is just "I don't like blacks or Jews", which is why the WN movement has never and will never go anywhere. You need real systemic analysis.

>>15359475
*Ahem*

>>15359478
Its I dont like brown people and the system dosent work and should be brought down at all cost regardless of ideology (except neo-libs of course)

>>15359477
It's been a while since I read them so I don't remember the exact chapters but easily the love section in Turner Diaries and probably when Mason was sperging about how the NSLF was better than other groups and more true to the ANP.

>>15359489
What was so wrong with them?

>>15359479
Based Dugin poster, they won't like that he's not a racialist otherwise they could draw on the entire Conservative Revolution. 4PT is the only way.

>>15359091
Siege is the worst meme in existence. Don't take it seriously. NatSoc is not about hating other races, it's about loving your own. Burn that shit immediately.

>>15359493
It's just not well written and lacks a real ideological critique of liberalism.
>>15359486
This lacks systemic analysis. You're not gonna get anywhere without that and basing yourself of anarchists is dumb since they accomplished jack shit in the 20th century.

>>15359498
National Socialism is an ideology that's been dead for 75 years. It's no good to be living in the 20th century.

>>15359091
Siege is a really interesting book both for its sort of catalogue of the last gasp of real political extremism before the rise of the internet, and the psychology of a man who has solidly declared the State and its agents the enemy of himself and his genes.

I think for the specific goal of establishment of an ethnostate he well identifies which actors are useless and which could actually do it if they reached critical mass and lays out the general futility and stupidity of "conservative" movements compared to aggressive traditionalists. I definitely think its a good read to understand how the very fringe of society and ideology has changed into the 21st century.

>>15359499
It wont get anywhere if its not organized. I don't think systemic analysis matters if the point of the ideology is to purely destroy not rebuild a new.

>>15359515
>national socialism is dea-

>>15359525
You likely disagree with him, but pic related had a very 'burn it all down' attitude to his society. He didn't want a single piece of the Tsarist society and brutally destroyed it when he got the chance. He was very consistent on systemic analysis, as well as condemning random 'propaganda of the deed violence'. He was also very good at organization, utilizing both legal and illegal methods and discussing when to use either.

>>15359539
Modi is a modern National Conservative like Orban or other right populist leaders today. National Socialism is a specific ideology that came about in Weimar Germany and ended in 1945.

>>15359540
Good example, he was able to destroy and rebuild with the same generation, I think now you can only do 1 of those options, at least for the American siege POV, were they believe legal methods to be imposssible.

>>15359574
Lenin didn't argue that you used one strictly legal and one strictly illegal approach, he used both simultaneously. One cannot achieve power solely through illegal means and one cannot have a revolution through solely legal means. Both were used depending on the particular situation at the time.

>>15359589
I understand that, Siege cant use any legal approach because they don't believe in it. Any contemporary siege members are not looking to achieve power, merely destroy it and hope something that isn't neo-liberal to take its place, the theory is the ones who take down the system, wont be the ones to see the rebuilding of it, they don't survive the revolution, they just start it. I don't believe you can do both in America.

>>15359632
This isn't how power or revolution works. You need to refute your enemy in theory before you can destroy him in practice. 'Anti-x' movements almost never work, especially when dealing with something as prevalent as liberal capitalism.

>>15359676
Siege is anti-spook movement, anti-spook in the right wing sense of the word, IE I can refute your theory by putting a gun to your head and blasting your brains out before I then proceed to blow up myself in a federal building. Unless you mean "you need to refute your enemy theory" in order to gain supporters for the cause.

>>15359698
Again, I'll go back to Lenin. Anarchists during this period were doing the kind of violence you're talking about, but it did nothing except increase secret police arrests. If I have ten times the force you do because I have a clearly articulated critique and alternative, then I can crush you easily, like what happened with Makhnovia. The violence you're talking about would only kill several hundred people at most, who can be replaced. Much more effective is both legal and illegal organizing and using that build up resources and waiting for the right historical inflection point to smash the enemy and seize power.

>>15359731
Again the idea is not to seize power, the idea is to collapse the state, no state no effective response. In practice maybe it will turn out like Makhnovia or not. Again depends on the size of the movement and how organize it is and how the "grand plan" is executed to take out serious points of interest, I guess in the example of fight club when the bomb all the credit company buildings. You cripple the system so it cant react effectively, the rug is pulled out but they never get back up. Im not promoting paris commune memes.

>>15359759
>the idea is to collapse the state
This does not work, anything short of an extreme nuclear response will receive overwhelming power by the state. If one is not ready to fill the power vacuum, the forces of reaction will, see the Russian Whites. States do not vanish overnight, they can only be destroyed through careful mobilization over a long period.
>executed to take out serious points of interest, I guess in the example of fight club when the bomb all the credit company buildings. You cripple the system so it cant react effectively
Trotsky more or less did exactly this right before the October Revolution, he cut most forms of communication to slow the response by the reactionaries. Still a multi year civil war had to be waged.

>>15359776
I'll concede, recommended literature for what you're referencing? ill look into it, being black pilled sucks.

>>15359792
For Lenin, Left Wing Communism An Infantile Disorder and What Is To Be Done. Read Carl Schmitt's Concept of the Political, Dugin's Fourth Political Theory, and Dennen's Why Liberalism Failed. That more or less sums up my political ideology. You'll find that true leftists are dealing with blackpills 100 times worse than the right.

>>15359836
thanks will check them out, and intriguing on the last statement, the left will surely win the culture war if the current direction stays course though.

>>15359874
Liberals will win the culture war, not Marxists. Marxists are dealing with problem of their movement being extremely subverted by liberal capitalism, with DSA and the Bernie movement being full of literal trust fund kids who want to project their fetishes onto society but under the guise of 'socialism'. The left vs right distinction in America is just two sides of liberal capitalism who play different roles. Left liberals advance the cause of liberalism aka gay shit, trannies, etc. while right liberals advance capitalism aka tax cuts for the rich, economic centralization, etc. However, both feed into each other. Immigration is protected by left liberals for cultural liberal reasons while destroying the working class. The radical left and radical right shouldn't consider themselves of that conversation if they want to not be subverted into pointless GOP vs dem talking points.

>>15359906
Yeah radical left care more for monetary issues than cultural ones, many self proclaimed "socialists" who are culturally liberal just care for porn and trannies. But at the end of the day, those people fall into your camp not the right. We will never accept them, the left can always change them ideologically when the time comes.

>>15359923
The power dynamic is the opposite of what you think it s. The liberals are the ones who control leftists movements, not any sort of socialist core. Here's very condensed version of how this works:https://soundcloud.com/whatisleftpod/socialism-contra-liberalism
For the record, I'm socially conservative and hate trannies, I also don't consider myself a leftist or rightist. I just recognize that the capitalists are the ones selling this.

>>15359836
>ou'll find that true leftists are dealing with blackpills 100 times worse than the right.
Only because 'real' leftism is fundamentally untrue in its premises and therefore bound to fail. 'right wing' anti-liberalism is fundamentally true in its premises and is therefore bound to succeed at one point or another.

>>15359971
>Only because 'real' leftism is fundamentally untrue in its premises and therefore bound to fail.
This is dumb, and you shouldn't be making this mistake as a Duginst. Fourth Political Theory requires taking the good aspects of all of the 3 main political ideologies which includes Communism. Marx made many accurate critiques of capitalism which are absolutely compatible with culturally conservative positions. When I say real leftism, I mean orthodox Marxism, or close to it. Anti-capitalism of the left and anti-liberalism of the right are both needed.

>>15359475
t. hasnt read an ounce of gentile
t. hasnt read an ounce of marinetti
t. hasnt read an ounce of anything of relevabce
for my legionaries is good but u need to read actual theory

>>15359985
>Marx made many accurate critiques of capitalism which are absolutely compatible with culturally conservative positions. When I say real leftism, I mean orthodox Marxism, or close to it.
Marx is certainly the best polemicist and critic of capitalism, I don't doubt that. I do however doubt that a materialist view of history and class analysis is even close to sufficient to accurately predict and respond to liberalism. All I mean by the fundamentals of real leftism is historical materialism, the necessity of class antagonism (as oppose to class consciousness) and its rejection of ethnic and religious analysis.

>>15360013
>tfw Dugin has steppe mommy gf and is making Eurasianism real
Marx fills in the blind spots of simple anti-liberalism. Again, I think both right wing anti-liberal critiques are needed, but left wing anti-capitalist critiques are also needed. It's very important to understand how capitalism and liberalism feed into each other.

>>15360041
Is that Limonov in the middle?

>>15360068
Yep, I think it's all three of the original GANG

>>15360041
I'm don't disagree with any of that. Classical Marxist critique is necessary for deconstructing capitalism and liberalism but insufficient by itself for a positive alternative. Marxism ultimately failed as a historical alternative so we have to take what worked and leave what didn't (in regards to the positive prescriptions of course) Did you come into Dugin/4pt from the left or right? I've noticed that lefties who get j-woke and racially conscious are far less susceptible to liberal grifts

>>15360079
My ideological path is this:
>normie con
>libertarian
>pro trump
>neonazi
>WN
>NazBol
>Conservative Revolution/4PT
Not big on the JQ thing, but I also obviously don't care about it as a moral issue. I stopped being an active WN in 2018, started reading leftist literature, returned to Junger, then found Schmitt and then Dugin.

>>15360111
interesting. I took basically the same path except I was never an unironic neonazi lol.
>started reading leftist literature
just classic or pomo as well? Dugin seems to consider Deleuze, Baudrillard, Debord etc as important as Marx in the appropriation of leftist critique

>>15360138
>I took basically the same path except I was never an unironic neonazi lol.
Yeah /pol/ got me good, but fortunately I was able to get out of the whole thing without getting my life ruined, I was pretty involved in organizing alt right stuff.

Classic, started with biographies of Lenin and Stalin. Read a couple of Lenin's books along with the reading by Marx I had to do for school. Haven't gotten into any postmodernist stuff yet, though I understand the basics.