/lit/ - Literature

None said disagreement with the pope is good except some random boomers. You're crying because the highest authority on the matter of theology and morals is in fact authoritative. It's like complaining about that a supreme court has total authority over a provincial court. absurd, it's taken for granted. Fuck off.

>>15350478
>Now keep in mind the pope sanctioned worship of a demon idol in the Vatican last summer.

This is obvious bait.

You obviously do not understand what Papal Infallibility is and how it is exercised.

>>15350645
Except that the current Pope is a heretic who puts pagan idols in the house of God, is warming the Church up to that whole De Chardin/Ilia Delio pantheistic Transhumanism, denies Extra Eclessium Nulla Sallus and is generally an obvious agent of disruption and global neoliberal hegemony. So yes - go ahead & take everything he says as authoritative.

>>15350645
Actually what it means is I could throw any insane quote any pope or bishop has said in the past 5 years and you have to defend it to the death. It doesn't matter if it contradicts a previous infallible teaching. You have to make it make sense even if it is completely contradictory. Otherwise you are in mortal sin. This will be great. Apologize now or I start digging up quotes...

>>15350478
>Now keep in mind the pope sanctioned worship of a demon idol in the Vatican last summer. This means that every Catholic must fully embrace demon worship and defend it to their deaths. Or else they go to hell. Isn't canon law interesting? Remember, this does not only apply to infallible statements! Any time a pope or bishop speaks, every Catholic must obey and submit completely. Every time.
cringe and bluepilled

>>15350653
He cited Canon law. It's pretty clear. No, you don't get to ignore the entire bent of the Catholic hierarchy, including the Pope, based on a technical point.

>>15350653
No, you don't. Read the canon law. You were memed. Submission to teachings goes far beyond infallibility

>>15350478
>they must obey literally every word that comes out of the pope's mouth at all times
Nowhere in any of the quotes you've provided it does it say that.

>>15350661
>Apologize now or I start digging up quotes...
Do it faggot, you won’t

>>15350654
>an obvious agent of disruption and global neoliberal hegemony
Anon he was unanimously elected by the cardinals and was expected to ascend to the office even before then. Who are the infiltrators to make it so that he is against the institution?

>>15350654
>Except that the current Pope is a heretic who puts pagan idols in the house of God
You are a LARP
>is warming the Church up to that whole De Chardin/Ilia Delio pantheistic Transhumanism
Citation needed
>denies Extra Eclessium Nulla Sallus
He teaches exactly what the JP2-era Catechism teaches
>is generally an obvious agent of disruption and global neoliberal hegemony.
Cringe

>>15350672
https://www.newwaysministry.org/2019/12/12/german-bishops-affirm-homosexuality-as-normal-acknowledge-queer-relationships-as-hot-topic/

>At the conclusion of a consultation they sponsored on human sexuality, Germany’s bishops issued a statement in which they affirmed homosexuality as a “normal” part of human development, and they labeled church teaching against same-gender sexual activity a “hot topic”.

The CCC calls homosexuality disordered. Now say they are both right.

>>15350694
>He teaches exactly what the JP2-era Catechism teaches
So what? JP2 is also teaching against what the church previously taught. So now tell me how all those different contradictory statements are true. Or else you're in mortal sin.

>>15350671
Don't be fucking dense. Authentic magisterium is the lowest level of magisterial authority and includes everything a pope says or writes. Or a bishop. Or even a priest. But canon law only inclues bishop and pope I think.

>>15350666
>a technical point
You're the one who is desperately splitting hairs to distort the truth to support your post-Wesleyan tent revival nonsense. The Canon Law is referring to Papal Infallibility and it is a right rarely exercises by the Sovereign Pontiff.

When the Catholic Church uses terms such as "doctrine" it refers to something more precise than mere teaching. There are different tiers of obedience that are owed to the clergy.

>>15350720
>The Canon Law is referring to Papal Infallibility
No it's not. Reread it. It is specifically referring to cases outside of papal infallibility.

>doctrine
Means an article related to faith and morals. It can be more specifically defined, but is not in this case, because it says "even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act". Therefore, the doors are wide open. Moreover, as I said, "authentic magisterium" refers to ALL teaching by word or pen done in the role as a pope or bishop, specifically including non-infallible statements.

>>15350478
LITERALLY NO ONE GIVES A FUCK EVERYONE IS PLAYING PRETEND. ANYONE WITH A FUNCTIONING RATION BRAIN REALIZES WHILE SITTING IN CHURCH (around age 14, or earlier) THAT IT IS A FUCKING RIDICULOUS IDEA. JEWS DO NOT MAGICALLY COME BACK TO LIFE BECAUSE EVERYONE LOVES THEM. YOU ARE NOT EATING THE LITERAL (yes literal, how the fuck does anyone not attack this, if I eat the body of christ and you cut me open you will not find human flesh, but instead a wafer of bread you brain dead christ cuck) BODY OF GOD. GOD IS NOT SOME BIZARRE GOOFY TRIPLE BEING OF GHOST, FATHER AND SON.


HOW THE FUCK DO PEOPLE STILL TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY????????? AHHAHAHAHAHUYAHJUYAAJUHAHAHHAUHIYJAFGIBYUHGSVTREINA!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>15350710
Just give Lumen Gentium, the document that lays out that idea in the first place, an honest reading. It covers it.

>Now keep in mind the pope sanctioned worship of a demon idol in the Vatican last summer.
Did the Pope say it was a demon idol? No? Then according to the canon laws it wasn't

>>15350736
>matter of faith and morals
>literally everything! the pope can deny the Earth is round and you have to believe him!!¡!!¡!
Choose one

>>15350738

CRINGE

>>15350759
The pope referred to it as "Pachamama" meaning that it could only refer to one thing: the fertility goddess NAMED Pachamama.

>>15350738
youre awfully worked up about a god that doesnt exist

>>15350795
You're awfully casual about the cannibalism you engage in papist

>>15350808
no im very serious about it in fact

>>15350810
Not serious about it enough to actually follow canon law and avoid mortal sin, apparently. Defend the German bishops who said homosexuality is normal despite the CCC claiming it is disordered. They can't both be correct but you have to assent to both.

Just turn to Islam
It is the most anti capitalistic religion

>>15350792
Pachamama means nothing, is a syncretic name.
>the figure of the Virgin Mary became united with that of the Pachamama for many of the indigenous people. Christianity is a syncretic religion, and the people worship Pachamama through it, in an indigenous ritual in some parts of Argentina, Chile, Bolivia and Peru (Merlino y Rabey 1992).

>>15350820
who gives a shit? /lit/ is an anarcho capitalist board.

>>15350810
>be me
>average cath*lic
>go to church, only on sunday's though
>pretend G-d is a supreme being and creator of the universe
>still only worth 1 hr a week and sending my kids to a special school though
>pretend to believe people can come back to life, but only if in palestine 2000 years ago
>pretend that we are all brothers and sisters on this earth'
>still racist though
>pretend that my priest isn't gay
>pretend that I will get special treatment when I die and actually live forever
I sure do love being retarded.

>>15350839
Even the Vatican itself denied that claim, that it was teh Virgin Mary. You are blaspheming AND refusing to submit to your superiors. Looks like you have some confessing to do :)

>>15350819
There is a reason why there is a hierarchy with one man at the top, so that when bishops and the pope disagree, the pope's ruling takes precedent

>>15350478
Which Pope started this gay trend of kissing feet?

>>15350845
did you just step out of a taxicab from 2008 or am i just retarded

>>15350886
what? Please elaborate

>>15350869
The pope did not condemn the bishops' statement though and has allowed them to proceed. Therefore, it stands until the pope issues an offical condemnation. Don't hold your breath!

Now defend it. And you can't say you'll just listen to the pope instead or a previous ruling. You cannot make a private judgment that the two statements contradict because that would make you just like the protestants. The pope didn't intervene or condemn. You must do the same.

>>15350850
In his own words, no idolatrous intentions. Whatever bad practice it was, asking us to defend is ridiculous by the standards you present.
>Buon pomeriggio, vi vorrei dire una parola sulle statue della pachamama che sono state tolte dalla chiesa nella Traspontina, che erano lì senza intenzioni idolatriche e sono state buttate al Tevere

>>15350850
Are you fucking dumb? Do you think that the Catholic Church is going to actively worship a fucking pagan demon from the fucking middle of nowhere? If you're going to choose a pagan entity, better to choose a powerful one instead of a tribal idol, I don't know. The thing is that none said it was a pagan demon and according to the canon I am not allowed to believe such other thing ;)
https://www.miamiarch.org/CatholicDiocese.php?op=Article_Es-Dios-la-pachamama

>>15350889
he's saying that you have to pretend that christianism makes sense because internet atheists were cringe 12 years ago

>>15350915
>Do you think that the Catholic Church is going to actively worship a fucking pagan demon from the fucking middle of nowhere?
Yes.

>>15350918
he's saying that that internet atheist today is exemplifying the /r/atheism cringe

>>15350905
well since i dont live in germany im technically not under their jurisdiction

>>15350912
>if I commit murder but say I had no murderous intent, I'll get away with it!
Cathocucks literally believe this.

>>15350934
>we are the universal church!
>oops sorry i don't have to believe that heresy you see it's a different jurisidiction so germans go to hell but americans don't just the way jesus intended when he said the pharisees were overly juridical

>>15350929
only a rotten protestant brain could believe that the CHURCH OF CHRIST lacks good taste. There is an infinite amount of pagan gods with more appeal than a primitive wooden statue

>>15350676
> Who are the infiltrators to make it so that he is against the institution?
>not knowing the Vatican has been infiltrated by communists, humanists, freemasons, sodomites, paedophiles etc since the early 20th century

>>15350964
Donatism is an heresy. Vade retro with your sedevacantism, boomer

>>15350968
So is gay marriage and allowing the divorced and remarried to receive communion. See: The Baltimore Catechism.

Now reconcile that with Amoris Laetitia. They both have to be the truth, and you cannot compromise on either. Reminder, the Baltimore Catechism says the divorced and remarried CANNOT under pain of mortal sin and eternal hell, ever receive communion in their state.

Go. Jump for me.

>THIS CANON HERE SAYS THE POPE MUST BE OBEYED!!!! HOLY SHIT ABSOLUTE STATE OF CATHOKEKS
>WHAT THE POPE DID A YEAR AGO JUSTIFIES MY 500 YEAR OLD HERESY

>>15350976
>heehe look at me I'm reporting an "heresy" while being a sedevacantist heretic!!
how logic

>>15350996
That's an ad hom but also
>implying i'd be fucking retarded enough to be a catholic
I'm not a low test single white larper with no prospects you idiot. So no, I'm nothing like you.

>>15350996
Why don't you answer the question instead of trying to change the subject. Your diversion is so obvious and desperate that it's sickening.

>>15351001
Lmao so you are either a protestant or an atheist or a Muslim or a Jew or a pagan. Fucking worse! Boomervacantism is like playing in the champions league compared to you. Stay in the cavern.

>>15350976
Have you read amoris laetitia? It lays its own context pretty well, and the reasoning for the choice is such disastrously bad education on Church teaching that it is possible to be divorced and remarried in vincible ignorance of the sinfulness of such.

>>15351009
because sede vacante is an heresy. Heretics reporting heresies are hilarious.

>>15350905
https://www.advocate.com/religion/2020/5/04/former-pope-same-sex-marriage-comes-antichrist

OH NO NO AHAHAHA
And YES, Homosexual tendencies are not a sin, SODOMY IS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/04/pope-francis-says-homosexual-tendencies-are-not-a-sin/amp/

>>15351061
>Homosexual tendencies are not a sin
No one claimed that, brainlet. I said homosexual tendencies are disordered. Or rather, the CCC says that. Stop typing in caps like that. It's cringe.

Only a wicked protestant could blame the Church for not "condemning homosexuality enough!!!" when already 2/3 of pr*testant chuches allow gay marriage. Stay mad!

>>15351039
You're resorting to an imagined ad hom because you know you are this incapable of defending the contradiction. Are you really comfortable being this dishonest with yourself? Do you realize how pathetic this looks to someone happening to read this?

Your behavior would drive away any potential convert. It's disgraceful. Answer the question and explain the contradiction. Your posturing and weird meming isn't impressing anyone. It's fucking sad.

>>15351039
Hi new poster here. I am not a sede. Now answer the other poster's question :)

>>15351025
>Boomervacantism
imagine claiming to be a catholic while using 4chan zoomer memes. Imagine the smell of this person. Imagine how many friends this person has, that he has to hang out with 80 year olds at church to feel companionship.

>>15351075
That's not matter of morals, what is a mental disorder or not is a medical issue. hahahah

>>15351102
It's referring to disordered in a Thomistic sense and is thus a matter of faith and morals. Unless you're claiming all sexual morality is a matter of medical science.

The "hahahaha" posturing is really autistic and pathetic btw.

>>15351086
>>15351082
You know who has the authority (Magisterium) to interpret if something fits the precedent tradition? NOT YOU. So your interpretations (whatever interpretation) outside of the Church are WRONG. This said, I'm not gonna read amore laetitia now. Please, charity.
>>15351098
are you mad?

>>15351110
And the bishops are referring to disorder in a scientific sense PRICK
>“Human Sexuality – how to discuss scientifically-theologically and judge ecclesiastically?”,
>“[Koch] emphasized that the synodal path should be started without prejudice and without already fixed positions, but by no means without knowledge of the state of the sciences.
wow

I’m very new to religious texts,

What version of the Catechism should I read? Apparently there’s multiple versions, which get updated through the years by the church?

What’s the most important version if I were to be reading it for historical perspective and understanding of it’s effects on western culture?

>>15351125
It says right there "scientifically-theologically".

>>15351115
Are you confused about the entire thread and the position you took? That is what I said. I said there are two apparently conflicting statements and you need to believe them both or you are either not a Catholic or are in mortal sin. You haven't done that.

>>15350478
Christians are morons, wow amazing find OP a real revelation as it were

>>15351140
>matter of faith and morals
I don't see any scientifically-theologically here
>>15351140
You're the one asserting that there's a contradiction, not me. you're making your thread more and more embarrassing as well as unrelated to the first complain (because it has been refuted).

>>15351163
>HURRR THEOLOGY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH
ok bye troll

>>15350478
Nigger, do you not read things you quote? For example:
>This will mean an intense and patient reflection on his part and a readiness, if need be, to revise his own opinions
>if need be, to revise his own opinions
>if need be
Clearly implying that sometimes there is no need to revise your own opinion because while opposition cannot be justified by lack of understanding or the opposite case being more likely, it can be justified by the opposite case being certain, for example, by previous doctrines, or scripture.

Furthermore, if you read a bit further from what you quote we get this:
>His objections could then contribute to real progress and provide a stimulus to the Magisterium to propose the teaching of the Church in greater depth and with a clearer presentation of the arguments.
Which clearly suggests alterations.

In addition, this all refers to theologians, not laymen. It's about preventing damage to the Church done by, not skeptical, but outright combatative theologians, and nowhere in the text does it mention sin.

If you have any intellectual honesty you should now admit your mistake and move on.

>>15351210
based

>>15350478
You withheld a paragraph that I think is relevant in regards to a theologian who still disagrees.
>If, despite a loyal effort on the theologian's part, the difficulties persist, the theologian has the duty to make known to the Magisterial authorities the problems raised by the teaching in itself, in the arguments proposed to justify it, or even in the manner in which it is presented. He should do this in an evangelical spirit and with a profound desire to resolve the difficulties. His objections could then contribute to real progress and provide a stimulus to the Magisterium to propose the teaching of the Church in greater depth and with a clearer presentation of the arguments. (30)

>>15350645
based

>Now keep in mind the pope sanctioned worship of a demon idol in the Vatican last summer.
No.
https://wherepeteris.com/our-lady-of-the-amazon-solving-the-contradictions/

>>15350478
As soon as a religion centers itself about something other than God, it crumbles.

>>15351715
>says that about the church which has stood for almost two millennia

>>15351736
It crumbles intellectually and morally.

>>15351025
>Lmao so you are either a protestant or an atheist or a Muslim or a Jew or a pagan. Fucking worse!
>tfw Restorationist

I read Denzinger Sources of Catholic Dogma, and it only made me realize that Christianity was a demented religion and probably made by aliens

I CAN NOW BAPTIZE MY BABY WITH BEER AND SAVE THEM FROM GOD'S RAGE BONER

>>15351533
>posts propaganda site developed specifically for Francis fuck ups
Brainwashed!

>>15352247
How does it work anon? Do you have some local church where you and other restorationists have masses? What about sacraments? I'm genuinely interested.

>>15351210
Violating canon law is a sin dumbfuck

>>15350654
Idolatry is subjective. You are the one that sees an idol in a holy place.

>>15352750
>murder is subjective, he may have killed someone but there was no murderous intent you silly incel
Catholics will burn in hell for taking this line of defense of their little golden calf

>>15352750
Idolatry is not subjective. The idol was a goddess, whom people worship. That is an idol no matter how many times the pope says that despite this there was no idolatrous intent. Pathetic. This thread has opened my eyes to how utterly contemptible Catholics are. I'm going orthodox. I can't bear the thought of sharing a religion with you sickos for another second. It's one thing to be a sinner. It's another to be free PR for Satan worshipers because it makes you feel good to be on a team.

Reminder that the Vatican approved a Moloch idol in the Colosseum

This thread is the worst LARPing I've ever seen on this board.

>>15352902
People seem to care about it. Can you really call it larping?

>>15350478
>Canon Law 752
>752

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>15352902
The Catholics here are ultra cringe and have obviously only read some basic bitch articles on Wikipedia and Catholic Answers as their entire training. It's really pathetic. Mentally ill through and through.

>>15350820
Not really, that would be Jainism.

>>15352928
Why are Catholics so cringe bros

>>15350738
>EVERYONE IS PLAYING PRETEND
Yes. the refusal to accept the immediate and apparent "reality" is at the heart of faith, for everything meaningful is behind and within projected onto the formless and meaningless matter.

>>15351210
OP BTFO

>>15350738
Helplessly bluepilled

>>15350738
based

>>15353048
No he's not. That was all cope. You can't pretend that complete submission is not required. That is a mortal sin.

Show an authoritative source that proves otherwise. You can't.

Reminder that Catholics literally believed Mary Magdalene was a prostitute for 1400+ years
That's how retarded they are

>Catholics literally believe that the bread and wine they eat LITERALLY transforms into the physical flesh and blood of Christ
Doesn't that mean they shit out Jesus after their weeky cannibalism session?

>>15353137
There are only 20 on all of lit based on this thread poster count. Maybe less. Yet they shitpost and strawman to pretend there are lots because they're such fucking losers.

>>15353190
I don't blame them, Catholic women are very sexy

>>15353202
Age her 40 years and that's yours average Catholic woman

>>15352564
You can't just call refutations propaganda and pretend you won the argument.

it's hilarious that so many gentiles worship a rabbi who would have disdained them

>>15353213
Are the pleats what keep her from looking Jewish?

Source for the claim that violating canon law is mortal sin?

>>15353295
scratching your anus too roughly is a mortal sin

>>15353300
Ok I’ll try to scratch it lightly then

>>15353295
Are you a fucking retard? What do you think canon law exists for if violating it isn't a sin? Feel free to fucking Google it you goddamn retard. Really. How about you take one ounce of effort to learn the most basic shit about your supposed religion. I could Google it for you but I won't. You fucking larper loser can't answer such a basic question. Fuck you freak.

>>15353339
laws are made to be broken - Jesus Christ the gnostic savior

>>15353339
So you don’t have one, got it

woah christianity......

>>15350478
it'll be funny to forget this post later today and then ages later on Judgement Day hear you get reamed out for it in front of every soul that ever lived and remember and be like "haha true, I was there actually"

great stuff

>>15353368
>delusions of grandeur
>jeebus will make me sit on his lap and we'll laugh at you while you burn!

>>15353368
it'll be funny to forget this poster later today and then ages later after achieving gnosis transpose my perception to see them still trapped in the somatic state and be like "hylics... pathetic"

great stuff

>>15353378
I'd never laugh, and I don't know if you'd go to hell for it. still being persistently disrespectful of the Church is absolutely a sin and taking obstinate, prideful pleasure in how much you hate it certainly isn't helping. ask yourself what total conversion looks like, because that's what we're required to do.

>>15353368
I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours
But I think that God's got a sick sense of humour
And when I die, I expect to find him laughing

>>15353407
>I'd never laugh
>it’l be funny
christoids lol

>>15353353
>ignorance means I win!
Nope. You're just a retard. Violations of canon law are some and can even lead to anathema. Sorry and you are to blame for that if you choose not to be aware of this fact

>>15353466
>source: dude trust me

>>15353446
not gonna lie I chuckled

I love threads like this where Catholics expose their pride and vitriol and evil and ignorance.

>>15353475
First, we have to distinguish between the sin and the crime. A sin belongs to the internal forum (the forum of conscience) and refers to the relationship between a man and God, which is undermined by the sinful act, a deliberate violation of the law of God, which means the person’s turning away from God and turning to creatures. A sin is forgiven by God, either immediately (provided there is contrition) or mediately (through sacramental absolution), the latter being the only ordinary way for the forgiveness of mortal sins.

On the other hand, a crime belongs to the external forum (the forum of canon law) and refers to the relationship between a faithful and the ecclesial society, which is perturbed by the criminal act, a deliberate violation of an ecclesiastical penal law. A crime is punishable with the due penalty, which ceases either by its fulfillment or by its dispensation by the competent ecclesiastical authority, the pope for the universal Church or the bishop for his diocese.

Thus, all crimes are sins, but not all sins are crimes. To become a crime, a wrongdoing must be considered by the ecclesiastical legislator to be specially detrimental to the ecclesial common good that it typifies it as a crime; it is described in a penal law which states the corresponding penalty.

Sins are absolved in the sacramental forum (confession); penalties for crimes cease either when they are fulfilled (served) or dispensed by the competent ecclesiastical authority.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-sin-and-a-crime

>>15353475
Here, a protestant needs to teach a Catholic what Vatican I, an infallible council, states. Reminder: to deny the following statement is to be anathema. If you do not adhere to this text completely, you will burn in he'll for all eternity, without question.

>Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.

>>15353542
>>15353618
Holy shit, Catholic retard blown the fuck out. They come here all smug demanding sources and no knowing their own fucking religion, then spin wheels when called on it. I can't wait to see how that incel again tries to weasel out of this now that it is anathema to deny that one must follow canon law under pain of sin.

Catholics really are larpers on this board and should be called as such every time

I'm surprised Sola Scriptura hasn't shown up in this thread yet. It's about the only thing Catholics know about Christianity, specifically for the purpose of deriding anyone who knows more (that is, anything at all) about the Bible than them.
It is unironically a larper religion

Can someone explain the Lutheran position on Mary? Thinking bout leaving Catholicism due to the nasty people in this thread. Can I pray to Mary? If not how do you honor her in prayer?

>>15353737
We welcome you to come to any Lutheran church! We tend to be a little better versed in our own faith and read our sources, aka the Bible! We know firsthand how mean Catholics can be given that we were persecuted by them for centuries! We're all God's children though and we maintain that faith.

rent free lmao

>>15354050

I won't say this is organized discord raid. But it sure feels like one
>>15353737
>Thinking bout leaving Catholicism due to the nasty people in this thread
try harder next time
>>15353949
>!!!
really nigga
>>15354076
RENT FREE

>>15354050
>>15354125
Kys sooner. Imagine feeling so lonely you have larp as a Catholic

>>15353542
ok all crimes are sins but are they mortal

>>15354125
>I won't say this is organized discord raid. But it sure feels like one
Rent free.

>>15354184
But I'm not lonely, anon. God watches over me.
Also have loving family, close friends, and people like you who are a joy to talk to, everyday; here, on /lit/.

>>15354202
I explain why think this is the case. Firstly - language. Some of the protestants in this thread sound alien. There few too many little things for it to be pure accident, so it's either one poster - and I'm wrong - quite likely judging by the poster count or some group not native to /lit/ Secondly "btfo" responses. These are not usual, simple 4chan reponses. They do stick out. Thirdly this simple assumption bothered you enough to respond.
>inb4 cringe, schizo or rent free
I'm not the one who made thread with 43 posters and 138 posts and I'm sure as heaven that most of these aren't made by Catholics, yet they are so obsessed with canonical law. Rent free one may say.

>>15354352
It's literally only Catholics posting btfo. Don't pin this on prods. Also, there are 20 to 25 Catholics in the thread who have made about 3 posts a piece.

>>15354395
That what I'm trying to say though. Catholics post short, typical responses. Protestants write paragraph and half with reddit spacing. And I really doubt the second part since as you said their posts are short and excluding few who actively engaged I assume this is all they posted in this thread. I may be wrong here but I don't think I am.

>>15350645
>You're crying because the highest authority on the matter of theology and morals is in fact authoritative.
and who says that the pope is the highest authority? the system that has historically lied to it’s followers for its own gain over the honesty of its own beliefs?

>>15351210
>>His objections could then contribute to real progress and provide a stimulus to the Magisterium to propose the teaching of the Church in greater depth and with a clearer presentation of the arguments.
This protestant nigger is so absolutely retard that he claims that having an objection is an immediate sin when the Church is encouraging you to share the objections. Is the Church promoting sin then or something, nigger? I can't bear this level of idiocy.

>>15351210
>I’m going to rely on the pope to change his opinion on something he is obviously wrong on, and if he doesn’t, oh well! it’s the truth and should be followed!
Y I K E S
I
K
E
S

I guess people here got btfo on r/catholicism and try to do some damage control in a place where moderation towards brainlet agitators is nil.

>>15354478
>who says that the pope is the highest authority
Jesus Christ

>>15354482
That's not what it says though. It says you have to keep your objections to yourself and pray until you change your mind. That is actually almost a word for word part of Donum Veritatis. Read it and then realize how wrong you are.

>Catholic reading his own faiths documents
Haha just a good laugh

>>15354546
>could then contribute to real progress
>no! you have to keep it to yourself.
Choose one faggot.
Thousands of theologians have "exposed" their "sins" then, contradicting your words. That's why councils are convoked.

>>15354623
Name one.

>>15354510
>>15354076

>>15354682
I don't know, Luther was invited to the council of Trent and he obviously disagreed with the Church

To all my Christian brothers. Who will listen to the Truth of our claims if they do not see the Truth in our deeds? We are commanded against anger. We are commanded against insults. We are commanded, even, against raillery. How then can we hope to share our light faith with any soul if it would not seem to shine even within ourselves? If you desire peace, speak peace. If you desire love, speak love. If you desire faith, speak faith. What kind of faith dwells in anger? What kind of faith is sown by insults? Indeed, is not Christ the sower? If so, then are not our words and our lives the soil? Do we make ourselves like stones or thorns to our lost brethren, or do we make ourselves like good soil? Always remember, Christ gave himself up for death so that sinners might be saved. In patience, he suffered endless profanity in the procession of his passion. Three times he was brought low. Never did he let loose even a sigh of complaint. If we, then, cannot withstand even the slightest chafing of mockery, why do we suppose that we are living as Christ asks us to live? Before asking any to follow Christ, is it not right that we follow him first?

People here aren't christians but protestants.

>>15354783
Brother, whoever is validly baptized is Christian, and many Protestants baptize validly. While the governance of the Church regulates that we ought to only have Priests perform baptisms, it is not essential to the nature of a sacrament that the celebrant be a priest. And when we consider those Christians who rebel against the Faith, let us remember that baptism confers an eternal mark on the soul, and that we will be held accountable to all the talents (or graces) we have been given; therefore, though all in mortal sin will be damned, it is more serious that any Christian should die in mortal sin and it will be worse for them. In light of this, we should never be dismissive or unsolicitous for the souls of our lost brethren, for the harm that will come to them is beyond grave. If we loved them, we would do all that we could to return them to the fold, and we would never accept as lost any Christian who still had life.

>>15354837
*correction*
I wrote "a sacrament," but it should be "the sacrament." The consecration of the host can only be validly performed by a Priest as celebrant, and the celebrants of Marriage must be the two who are to be married; likewise, Holy Orders must be given by Bishops (or those priests to whom the task has been licitly delegated), and Confession and Extreme Unction belong solely to the priest. Please let no one be confused in these matters by my mistake.

>>15350738
bait

>>15350951
Based

>>15350478
Face it anon protestantism is not a religion but politics.

>>15354837
They don't want to be loved, anon.

>>15354542

Where?

>>15355005
A lie. All of creation thirsts for the love of God. It is not that they do not thirst, but that rather than drinking from the fountain of life which is the mystical body of Christ, they drink from impure and festering pools, drinking poison and death upon themselves. What is your love that you would leave them there and insult them for their suffering?

for the retards here


Pachamama =/= Goddes of fertility

Pachamama = mother earth/earth itself/The relation of the human with his environment.

Some tribes look at the pacha as a divinity, others understand the concept of Pachamama in a more philosophical way, example of that is the "ñuke mapu/mother earth" from the Mapuche cosmology.
I'm always surprised about how delusional are Americans and Europeans about Christianity and the Semite religions, their religion are products of cultural syncretism of different cults and religions from the Mediterranean/Arabs and other groups.
Judaism, Islam, Christianism, Bahai, Druze, Babism, Rastafarism, Mandeism, Yezidi. All products of cultural syncretism. People pay respect to Angels and saints, why others Amerindian people can't pay respect to his symbiotic relationship with nature(elements of nature, like lakes, rivers, trees, mountains, wind and animals) and at the same time being Christians?

>>15355060
>Some tribes look at the pacha as a divinity, others understand the concept of Pachamama in a more philosophical way
Yeah and which ones make statues of her and bow down in front of her and bring her gifts?

The reaching about this statue thing is desperate and the spin is unreal. At the end of the day, even if they were worshiping mother earth (they weren't, it was a goddess) that is still contrary to Catholic teaching lol. You can't do that.

Or I guess you can. Doesn't look good for you all though. It was a pr nightmare and you all still defend it. Ironically you all hate protestants but are fine with worshiping fertility goddesses and or mother earth.

Hypocrite faggots

Welp, sounds like we need to shift to Orthodox Christianity then. Where do I start?

>>15355060
>why others Amerindian people can't pay respect to his symbiotic relationship with nature(elements of nature, like lakes, rivers, trees, mountains, wind and animals) and at the same time being Christians?
Do catholics really say this kind of thing or is this a false flag?

>>15353202
>catholic women
That is clearly a cosplayer living in Japan.

>>15355060
>>>15352811
>All Buddholic thought is bound by the Phenomenal, its Theology and Philosophy is simply a daisy chain of Phenomenology in which the Phenomena are called "God", "Man", "Soul", etc. with little to no change to their amoral, abominable, mortal interaction.

Like clockwork.

>>15355060
>dude just be a pantheist
Yep ok fuck this I'm no longer going to be Catholic. Didn't realize this was the party line these days. I'll go protestant or ortho. Holy hell. No way. I'm not inviting idol worship under the pretense of multiculturalism. That fucking den of sin can go fuck itself. Luther was right.

>>15355113
That logic: if you celebrate Christmas you are pagan

>>15355060
Because saints are real persons with real souls who are our brothers and sisters in Christ who, along with the choirs of angels, are the Church Triumphant. While we were made from the earth, the earth is not ensouled, and God explicitly gives us dominion over the earth. While some (in fact much, if not all) of what Pope Francis says about ecological sins can actually be established in traditional theology and mystagogy--in particular, the notion that our sins even to each other are the direct cause of calamities--and while we may, in humility, relate to lower orders of creation as St. Francis is reported to have done, it is an entirely different thing to put forward an icon of a personification of earth. What's more, there are sincerely held devotions to Pachama as deity (whether recognized by the name, or simply by the power ascribed) outside the Catholic Faith (as it must inherently be). Therefore, rather than following the example of St. John when he began his Gospel with the Logos, to adopt this icon (and especially to put its image on an altar) is more like the eating of profane meat which St. Paul speaks of to the Corinthians. Certainly, any who use the pachamama for a genuine practice of true religion in the Catholic faith does not directly sin by it, just as the eating of meat sacrifice to a false God is not inherently sinful, such an act is made sinful by the scandal it gives to less discerning brothers and sisters of faith--most of all those indigenous people who may be misled by this practice into a false understanding of the Catholic faith. It is extremely important to note that the attempt to appropriate the pachamama image is not led by organic development of pious faith in the Amazon, but rather is suggested by European bishops who have little to no experience with the lay faithful of the region they say they are motivated to help. While I do not doubt the righteous intent of these Bishops, it is confusing that they would ignore the many priests and laity of the Amazon region who disagree with this practice in favor of those political-activist who are outside the faith that so vociferously support the practice.

>>15355160
This is the best explanation but you can’t make them understand it.

I was born into a Catholic family and went through all the sacraments. Never was much of a believer though. I respect it, if for nothing else then the fact that it is the oldest continuation of Christendom and I think protestantism is kinda new age.


This thread, that being said, is super cringe and LARP

>>15355160
>>15355147
Case in point--if this anon is sincere, than the use of the pachamama image has literally become a scandal, causing someone to flee the One True Church who might otherwise have grown in their faith. Certainly, we ought to expect those with much faith and knowledge to withstand better the controversies of the Church; however, where the efforts of the Jesuits of St. Ignatius in what is now Latin America were greatly rewarded by a prodigious faith among all the people, now the faith is in decline and has been for many decades. How can we recommend a novel practice which has shown only bad fruit, when in the very same place we can show miraculous fruit from practices that come to us from time immemorial?

>>15355147
Is this a false flag?

>>15355182
Are there some from Paul and others from Apollo? Do not call our brothers "them". We are one Church. If there is real disagreement between us (and not merely prudential differences of opinion, as between Paul and Barnabas), it cannot be that there is a difference between truth and truth; therefore, all our disagreements and contentions must be a matter of pride. As one who is proud is blind to those arguments which prove his pride, we cannot reduce the pride that runs rampant in our Church by pride. Likewise, one cannot teach humility by argument or instruction. If we desire unity in the Church, we must first flee to humility.

>>15355216
Does it matter? I have heard such claims and such doubts in person. Whether this man is honest or a liar, there are those for whom this is true. Just as many have fled the One True Church over the scandals of sexual abuse, so too have such failures of ecumenism (like the Assisi gathering) caused many to stumble. What's more, scandal is a sin not simply in the extreme case that a soul is lost, but simply to put another soul in the danger of doubt and confusion is grave scandal. While certainly we cannot avoid scandal in all things, and certainly we cannot refrain from speaking and living the truth for fear of scandal, can this novel and unfruitful practice really be held up as such a thing for which we should endanger souls? For how many souls we risk, how many souls are we winning? Yes, when Christ taught the mystery of the Eucharist, many turned away and were scandalized by it--but the Eucharist is the height of our faith and by it all who are saved are saved. Since obviously we cannot compare any devotion to the Eucharist, let us compare to that blessed and glorious devotion--the Rosary. Is there any suggestion that pachamama devotions are fruitful like the Rosary is fruitful? Why then are we so cavalier with pachamama, and so bashful with the Rosary?

>>15355113
>>15355060
>>15355147
Read about the saint Columba and his way of converting nothern tribes in Britain, Saint's John Night in slavic countries and jesuit mission in China (not the best example, but still). Read about what these things achieved. There is nothing wrong in bringing christianity to pagans in familiar way as long as they only worship Christ. The newly converted may still participate in half-pagan rituals and curse on their gods - what matters that they also hold masses, their children laugh at the idols and their grandchildren become pilgrims and priests.

>>15355327
And why not Saint Patrick's example? Or the example of Our Lady of Guadalupe? It is hard for me to accept these interpretations of the catechisms of great evangelizing saints when the best examples of conversion that we have are so routinely ignored. Of course, we must, like Saint Paul, "become all things to all men." But these efforts to spread pachamama devotions seem to ignore the centuries of fruitful and glorious faith in the Americas. It was not the failing of the Catholic Church in South America, but the failings of European Nations which have been an obstacle. As Pope John Paul I said, "God writes some things in the dust rather than stone so that if they remain we can know it was of God." In the history of the Church, view efforts have ever been so wonderful or effective as the Jesuit Reductions. Though the wars of Europe made them short lived, they demonstrated what true evangelization can accomplish. Why should we think that the same thing can't be done today? Why do we accept the social theories of those who do not even accept the reality of original sin? Why should we accept the theories of culture of those who do not accept the culture of life which is the One True Faith?

>>15355238
You are truly blessed anon im sorry i was too proud. May i see as clean as you do.

>>15355216
Yeah who would ever think that idol worship would drive off a potential convert?? Must be a liar. Ps, Catholics are leaving the faith at a 9 to 1 ratio in the us.

>>15355403
Do not say that I am clean, and do not say that I am blessed. It is easy to seem holy if one only repeats the words of the Apostles. I say these things not because I have seen, but because I have done. That is, I have myself sacrileged our Lord in the Holy Eucharist hundreds of times in my life, sacreliging even my confirmation. I have profaned God and myself in onanism and still brought the body of Christ into my profane soul. What sin has anyone then that I may judge him? St. Longinus might weep for discovering Christ at the end of his bloody spear. But what worse sin can there be than to know Christ and then brutalize him? So, it is not for any holiness or righteousness that I say what I say, but only that I know the mercy that has been shown to me, who, by rights, ought to perish in eternal flame. I live by God's mercy alone. And so I know that so long as any man lives, God still longs for his soul. If God would not despair even of me, then of whose soul should I ever despair whose body still remains to give glory to God?

>>15355238
>>15355397
>>15355327
>>15355291

You sound exactly like me when I was 16. I was really obese, friendless, had dropped out of high school, and went through this Ignatius Reilly phase. I'd read all of these books about Catholic theology from the library, I went to mass and made my little brother go with me, I'd clean the house obsessively for my parents, every single thought and action of every waking moment was weighed in terms of good and evil. Even watching the sky and thinking how beautiful it was, I'd say "but I'm just getting lost in my own sensibility, I should be doing good not looking at the sky, this is itself a form of evil and egotism." I'd confess and confess, and then think I forgot to confess something, and then I'd make lists to take into the confessional, and leave thinking "finally I'm free of sin! At least for now!" and then throw them away and then think "oh no, I didn't confess x that happened when I was 10, the whole confession is invalid"

I half-remembered a conversation where I said something pro-life, and was half-sure that one person in the conversation went on to have an abortion. So I was convinced I'd basically facilitated an abortion and needed absolution from the bishop in the state capital.

I'd kneel and pray the rosary over and over, I'd cry meditating on the simple lives of simple saints, I wanted to love the world so bad, and I wanted God to love me

I really abandoned everything, even my own intellectuality (some intellectual I was, a high school dropout). My favorite devotional text was the dialogues of St Gregory...

Eventually I became so obsessed with my own sinfulness that I despaired of salvation and seriously wanted to commit suicide. One day I was volunteering in a soup kitchen and I snapped out of it, like waking from a dream.

The rest of my life was pretty bleak, I lost my mind multiple times, I was an alcoholic for a long time, nearly died a few times.

Sometimes I think that whole thing was just the first blossoming of a serious mental illness.

But I remember the feeling like I had grace and how much I loved other people. I'm sad that it broke me like it did.

It's funny though I remember posts I wrote on these silly Catholic forums and they were exactly like yours

>>15355505
Cringe

>>15355499
Thanks anon

>>15355499
Not him, but found the 99 a bit amusing. You see, in the "Smorfia", a really old italian book about dreams and symbols, this number symbolizes "brothers".
Also this smorfia is what people who play the lottery follow, at least down here in south america.
just a silly thought.

>>15355505
Out of pure curiosity, are you American?

>>15355505
It was not your faith that broke you, but a lack of faith. Though scruples themselves are not a sin, but a temptation, it is a sin of faith to give in to them. After all, how you speak of confession is not how confession is taught. It was not Catholic teaching and therefore not Catholic Faith which led you to think that your confessions were invalid. Consider a part of one of the common forms for ending a confession "for these and all the sins which I do not now remember, forgive me father." What's more, it is not sinful to enjoy the sensible. The body is not evil. If the body were evil, why would it be resurrected, as we confess in the Apostle's Creed? Mortifications of the flesh are not done to punish what is evil in us, but rather as an offering of hope, love, and thanksgiving for the suffering of Christ. It is a lack of faith in God to think that he has failed to save you. It is a lack of Faith to think that, if we truly desire salvation, God will fail to save us. Grace is not a feeling. There is no sense of having saving grace or not having saving grace. Actual graces may have some sensible component, but when we arrive at the final judgment we will see just how many graces we received and never knew for they were given to us like air for breathing. I find your story very said, for it seems to me the perfect example of how many modern practices of the Church have failed to protect the flock. After all, you desired holiness. You sought great spiritual writings. Perhaps you were too ambitious in your yearnings for spiritual action, but at the same time it is difficult to be too ambitious in Christ. And yet, for how far you traveled on the road of devotion, how little protection you were given. Who was there to warn you of the common pitfalls which used to be known around the world? Consider, we all love St. Francis so much today, which is good. But how often are we reminded that at first he sought nothing else but to live in poverty and build a small chapel. St. Francis became like a second Christ not because of any ambition, but because he lived too simply to become anything else. It is not your faith that broke you anon, but the devil. In the very manner described by many religious, expertly diagnosed by St. Ignatius in his spiritual exercises, upon your piety the devil heaped false piety, and on seeing the falseness of what had been added you came to despair of the whole thing. But, it is not too late. If I sound like you, it is not because I am like you, for nothing you describe is like my life. Rather, if what I say reminds you of how you used to be it is because God desires to remind you of what you could still be. Where before you followed in zeal, now follow in meekness.

These two flamers are gonna kill this thread. These queers have no idea how to be a Catholic. It means being manly and militant. Not feels. Protestants do this gay shit.

>>15355550
It both is, and it isn't. God is the Author of Life. We may choose to accept such small coincidences as signs of faith, or we may relegate them to coincidence. The lack of such signs cannot be taken to mean anything, nor can the presence of such little signs be taken as any confirmation or support, but if we find such a sign where we find truth, it is good to thank God for being so generous, though it be nothing more than a pleasure to our soul, even if it exist only in the pious yearning of our soul.

>>15355505
based

>>15355660
>>15354076

>>15355536
Don't thank me. If I'm wrong, there's nothing to thank. If I'm right, thank God.

>>15355720
All the Catholics I've seen here are liberal, maybe center rightist Francis dicksuckers/ultramontanists. Never seen a tradcath.

These are people who actually defend idol worship as Catholics. Not trads by any stretch

>>15355505
>I'm a mentally disturbed loser; therefore you are wrong.

Good argument

>>15355787
the virgin apologetics vs. the chad "you remind me of when I used to be a fat retard"

>>15355763
Liberal, center, right, conservative, progressive--where do you find these ideas in traditional Catholic theology? Do you find any pious tradition of throwing insults at strangers on internet forums? If you mean to say that anyone here is publishing heresy, than, as tradition would teach you, either correct them in charity, or show it to a priest who has the authority to condemn. What's more, would you disagree with that pillar of Catholic teaching St. Alphonsus when he writes:
>he spiritual tongue speaks of God, the worldly tongue talks of worldly affairs; but tlie tongue of a third person is a tongue of hell, which speaks of the impurities of the flesh; and this is the tongue that perverts many, and brings them to perdition.
If you would call yourself a traditionalist than it is for you not to simply follow sensational journalists but to live the faith as traditionally taught. Would any saint have ever lived as you live? Do you speak and act as they have taught you to speak and act? Then what tradition do you live by?

>>15355892
Who the fuck are you talking to? I'm not a trad. I'm not even a Catholic. You wrote that boring shit for nothing. Fuck off. I do respect trads more for at least having some intellectual consistency, but they're also the worst idol worshipers so it's a mixed bag. At least mainstream Catholics constantly cuck to us big brain Protestants. Luther was just on a Vatican stamp and Francis called him a model reformer of the Church. Now say you agree with the man.

>>15355950
Was St. Alphonsus wrong?

>>15355763
You can be a traditionalist without believing Francis committed idol worship in the Vatican. You can also think that how the event and the reactions to it were handled brought scandal. The articles stating that it wasn't idol worship haven't been credibly denied, there's been no more than attacks on the sources in this thread. There has also been no direct evidence of Francis bowing to the icons/idols/statues. Out of charity we are obliged to assume the best of the situation rather than jumping to conclusions of idolatry in such a manner.
>>15355505
If that's not just lifted from portrait of an artist, I'm sorry for you. Your confessors failed to give proper counsel. That does sound very much like the beginnings of mental illness. Please keep in mind, though, that use of similar arguments is not necessarily an indication of similar history or mental state in those you're arguing with.

>>15356377
The denial is based on the notion that it is not sinful if there is deniability of intent. That's it. That has no bearing on objective reality. For instance, murder us still murder even if my PR person says it wasn't. But this isn't even that. Francis says HE had no idolatrous intent. Did every person there feel the same? If so, prove it.

Further I'm not obligated to assume anything. It was bowing to a statue of a goddess called pachamama. Since I'm not a deluded Catholic i can call that what it obviously is without needing to explain it away. And that you feel the need to do so is why Catholicism is a bad and evil religion.

You don't seem to get that people outside your cult have no drive to cover for the pope like you do and can call it like we see it.

>>15356429
Well said. We are witnessing their cult like behavior. Denying obvious reality and forcing a shared delusion to protect their leader.

Catholics truly are the descendants of the jews, and it's easy to see when you consider how much of their religion is talmudic pilpul and contrived exegesis to make since of the ridiculous axioms. Hey, maybe a piece of bread just isn't literally god, ya know? That way you don't have to figure out the precise moment it goes back to being bread so you aren't shitting jesus into the toilet every sunday night (or monday morning depending on your fiber intake)

>>15356613
I hope they keep posting about the idol worship stuff because it's really opened my eyes to how crazy they are. They have all these extreme websites that lay out their defense for them and explain that they're bad sinners if they don't swallow the party line. They posted these sites itt and then you see others type out the same absurd defenses word for word. Like trained seals. And it's something so obvious and clear. That's what's really scary. Imagine what else you could convince them of...

>>15352704
Yes, we meet in a middle school.
Mass = memorial meeting, eucharist = breaking of bread, church = ecclesia, excommunication = disfellowship.
We have a closed communion to baptized members and a lay-clergy (men only).
Liturgy = hymn -> opening prayer -> OT reading > hymn > NT reading > hymn > exhort > prayer of bread > breaking of bread > prayer of wine > wine > memorial hymn > ecclesial announcements > donations > closing hymn > closing prayer.
Baptized women have to wear hats or headscarves.

>>15356429
That doesn't make it not sinful, but it does mean it's not something to be taken as taught by the magisterium when they clarify it wasn't intended as worship or veneration. If the pope kills someone without seeing it as such and then gives a sermon against murder, it doesn't mean there's a contradiction in teaching, just that the pope did something wrong.
Why are you asking for proof that noone there possibly committed idolatry? Some random amazonian visitor to the Vatican doesn't make valid magisterial authority. You need to demonstrate that the Church requires us to accept idolatry, not that it could conceivably have happened.

If you call it like you see it, why are you just explaining away arguments as motivated reasoning instead of responding in kind?
>>15356613
Why pretend that question is any less sophomoric than the angels that could dance on a pinhead? It's always been considered no longer to be Jesus at digestion or at not being recognizably bread. It's literally the same idea as "when is bread no longer bread".

>>15355160

Appreciate the thoughtful comment on this, anon.

>>15356690
>It's always been considered no longer to be Jesus at digestion
Go ahead and cite that from the mouth of the pope or a bishop.

>>15355006
Matthew 16:18

>>15355147
multiculturalism is the very core of Christianity retard

>>15356909
Not the kind where you endorse pagan religion you fucking idiot

>>15353339
>What do you think canon law exists for if violating it isn't a sin?
its for church governance retard

>>15353273
READ THE NEXT VERSE

>>15356890
anon canonically BTFO

>>15357196
Well take that up with the Vatican I quote posted earlier you illiterate who can't even bother to learn your own religion

>>15355505
>Catholicism made me mentally ill
You were already ill, your illness just fed off your confused understanding of Catholicism.
I had a similar experience in another denomination between 13-15 and became an atheist for 6 years, though I was never obese or totally friendless.

First of all, if your Christianity is amplifying your mental illness, you're doing it wrong.

>Eventually I became so obsessed with my own sinfulness that I despaired of salvation and seriously wanted to commit suicide.
You are told that salvation cannot be earned. Every man is a sinner deserving of death and can only be saved by grace, through Christ's sacrifice. You are told to have hope and joy, not least because of that fact. Fearing your capacity to be saved due to sin is an Old Covenant mindset. Christ died to free you from the Old Covenant. If you're worried about faith v works, your understanding is lacking. Works proceedeth from faith. You cannot earn salvation by works. Works can small or large. Merely setting a good example by (a) being Christian and/or (b) behaving better than the average heathen is a work. You do not need to run around working for every charity you can find. The example of works in James is simply giving a brother or sister who lacks clothes or food that you come across IRL, food and clothes (provided you are able). This not something hard to do, nor something that many people would hesitate to do.
Despair is a sin. When you find yourself in such a thought pattern, your reaction should not be to use prayer to flagellate yourself, but to pray for the thought pattern to go away and develop a true and healthy understanding of your faith. Accept God's forgiveness.

>I half-remembered a conversation where I said something pro-life, and was half-sure that one person in the conversation went on to have an abortion. So I was convinced I'd basically facilitated an abortion and needed absolution from the bishop in the state capital.
You are taught that people have free will. Therefore the person is responsible for their actions, not you.
Even if we humor the incredulous notion that your pro-life comment performed reverse-psychology on them and pushed them over the edge, that is not your problem. Your intention was to prevent abortion. Intention is the crucial variable both in secular law and Christianity. If someone gets an abortion because someone they disliked was pro-life, that's on them - not the pro-lifer.
>"finally I'm free of sin! At least for now!"
You are taught that you will never be free of sin until you exit your fleshly body. You have to accept that and move on. Simply attempt to sin less over time.

You (and me) were the classic example of the seed that fell on rocky ground, sprang up quickly then withered for lack of soil. Fix your soil.

Finally, contrary to your anecdote, the average Christian is healthier, thinner, and less depressed than the average heathen. Pic related.

>>15350478
God doesn't exist.

>>15357552
Even if that is the case, history makes it abundantly clear that it is better for a society to be religious than irreligious.

>>15357493
updated

Catholic fragility is real

>>15357626
will be using that term kek

>>15357602
I wonder though if what those stats are really measuring is that being a part of a strong community is associated with health cause believers have the added social support of their church. In which case those figures don't necessarily prove that religion=healthier people, as much as they show that supportive community=healthier people.

>>15357602
i wish i was braindead enough to be religious. stronger sense of community, happiness, purpose.

>>15357552
Then we must invent Him

>>15350968
Also heresies:
>infant baptism
>hell/heaven rather than resurrection
>trinity
>praying to people who are almost certainly unconscious awaiting resurrection
>papal infallibility (is Paul a heretic for disagreeing with "first pope" Peter?)
>identifying 14:12 with Satan rather than the King of Babylon
>"God, owing to His infallible prescience of the future, has appointed and ordained from eternity all events occurring in time, especially those that directly proceed from, or at least are influenced by, man's free will."
>tradition having precedence over scripture (Mark 7:8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men")

>>15358045
You can always try pretending.
Orthodox and Tridentine mass are comfy.

>>15358372
Shill me on Orthodoxy

>>15358351

>>15358004
That's definitely part of it. The supposedly happiest countries that are also extremely atheistic are Holland and the Scandinavian countries, yet their suicide rates are very high (and Holland's rate excludes all the euthanasias "for extreme psychological pain").
Which brings into question whether it is possible to achieve the same levels of community health without religion.
I would also say that it's not just the community from the church, but also higher morality of the populace. Catholic countries have lower suicide rates than Protestant countries, and while I am not Catholic, I think Catholic countries are more moral. One example being the treatment of elders. Protestant nations tend to dump them in rest homes and rarely visit, whereas it's reversed in Catholic nations.
You can argue that's a function of med/nord rather than religion, though Ireland would be an example in evidence of the latter. Catholicism has also been more strict at upholding traditional sexual morality. I don't believe the sexual revolution was as effective in Italy as it was in America, therefore they have less of the problems it causes.

>>15358513
Religious communities definitely have a stronger glue holding them together than secular ones. Countless secular lefties have tried and failed to do what the Amish have done for years.

>>15358479
>tfw the restoration pill is so true it leaves bergolian heretics speechless

>>15350738
Jews are probably the one group of people capable of coming back to life, emotional midwit

>>15350738
>around age 14
Ah yes, philosophical matters should be left in the hands of literal children who have just discovered the porn they were forbidden to watch

>>15358550
>the teachings of christianity for its entire history are bergolian

All Christians are LARPers. If any of you were serious you would:
1. Tithe
2. Attend Church at least once a day
3. Not associate with those outside of your Church when unnecessary
4. Center your life around your relationship with Christ
5. Not watch porn or coom
6. Not read the works of athiests/pagans
7. Not engage in politics.
Most importantly:
8. At least attempt to do some of the above.

Instead, you larp and shitpost on 4chan about your faith. Cringe, see you goat fucking stick worshipers in hell

>>15358585
>the teachings of christianity for its entire history
>papal infallibility in AD 33
>Infant baptism in AD 1-130
No
As for the trinity and immortal soul - most impartial scholars agree these were not believed by the earliest Christians. In the case of the latter, including a Lutheran theologian who was taught to believe it:
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/01/resurrection-vs-immortality

>>15358647
Some of this list is ok, other parts are dumb, others depend on the denomination/interpretation. Overall though who gives a shit what some atheist coomer thinks?

>>15358647
It gets even better when you compare it with a proper emotional response.

Large swats of the human population are going to Hell, you and your loved ones also risk this faith, in hell is unending toture.

Now comes the question: Why doesnt this fact emotionally defestate the average Christian?

>>15358745
The average Evangelical attempts to convert people. Now the average Catholic...

The orthodox church refusing the absolute authority of the pope is the best decision that have been made in history.

>>15352792
Welcome home brother.

>>15350478
How's this thread up after 2 days? I'm leaving this God-forsaken board.

>>15350478
>In fact, they must obey literally every word that comes out of the pope's mouth at all times.
No.
>a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act
This states a definitive act is not required, which is true, but this does not mean every utterance from the mouth of the pope is actually a teaching of morality or faith, so you're being hyperbolic. Should he or the bishops give a teaching even informally then yes a Catholic must act as if it true. Why is this an issue?

>>15358647
>>15358647
>1. Tithe
If your church isn't run by wolves in sheep's clothing and you're tithing within your means maybe.
>2. Attend Church at least once a day
Kek. Weekly has been the tradition since ancient Israel.
>3. Not associate with those outside of your Church when unnecessary
Not a rule in either the Bible or church tradition. Especially not if you mean "church" as in the local church one attends.
1 Cor 5:9-11 on the matter:
>I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with fornicators. Yet I certainly did not mean with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
Not to mention the fact Jesus shared company with prostitutes and tax collectors.
>4. Center your life around your relationship with Christ
If you're implying we need to hide in our rooms praying 24/7 and neglect the other aspects of our lives, no.
>5. Not watch porn
Correct.
>or coom
If you're not Protestant. Full-on sola scripturists are agnostic as to whether cooming in itself when unmarried is a sin.
>6. Not read the works of athiests/pagans
Lol, never been a rule. Plenty of Christians avoid watching or reading overtly satanic entertainment though (pic related).
>7. Not engage in politics.
Never been a rule in the vast majority of denominations. It happens to be a rule in mine, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
I generally do not want to validate the system by voting anyway. If there is a plebiscite that actually matters (e.g. banning the teaching of sodomy in schools) I can always break that rule the same way I can break "thou shalt bear false witness" if doing so saves a life. See Rahab.

Quick rundown on Vatican demon worshipping

>establishing a retarded legal tradition off a man who came to do away with a retarded legal tradition
Read Paul. You must either reject the law or reject Christ.

>>15359462
Nope look up what authentic magisterium means. It includes everything. That's the mistake in your interpretation.

>>15359323
Catholic fragility

Is there one book or a set of volumes that contains all Canon Law?

>>15361103
Probably. It's also online at the Vatican's website.

>>15361142
Does it include al the naughty bits about how many mistresses or catamites a bishop is allowed to have?

>>15355060
You disgust me. Read Exodus 20:3-5.

>>15361160
That stuff is taught in seminary, unironically. There's a whole system of homosexual indoctrination that's been in place openly since the 60s and before that just beneath the surface.

Notre Dames seminary has the nickname "Notre Flame" for this reason. St. Mary's seminary was just called Marys.

>>15360873
>Nope look up what authentic magisterium means.
I did. It is a classification of doctrine which is may be fallible. As required to be doctrine it must be germane to or concerning faith and morality. Not every utterance is of faith and morality. Trying to imply everything the pope says must be treated like gold is dishonest when these clear limitations are in place.

>>15361555
Authentic magisterium means anything a pope or bishop says in the capacity as a pope or bishop. So anything said like this that touches on faith or morals must be assented to completely.

>>15353368
I find this post really funny thanks anon

>>15361685
Because you're a bad Christian